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Plans for trapped boxes?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by puni666, Nov 24, 2008.

  1. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Really the only use for a trapped box now is to exploit the resist skill. There's really no legit reason to use them unless you're making some rip off lottery vendor. Annnnnny ways I was thinking making a trapped box a one time limited use item. To me it seems silly that one box could set of an unlimited amount of darts with out your character being overweighted. Most everything in this game has either a set amount or durability that's eventually used up. Anyone else have ideas the dev's will ignore?
     
  2. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    I agree, a trapped box should only work once. It may nerf the current reason for using them, but whatever.

    It would go toward unnerfing resist, which is a good thing.
     
  3. Mr X

    Mr X Guest

    If you nerf boxes, then every person in this game will be running a necro mage. Evil omen, paralyze, game over.

    People like you cry nerf and you do not think about the repercussions of what it is you want.
     
  4. Messiah

    Messiah Guest

    All three of my characters have 120 resist, and i still carry a trapped box setup on a UOA macro, for the simple reason of EO Paralyze. Honestly if you are any good at a field character you will carry one, reguardless of having resist or not.
     
  5. Fink

    Fink Guest

    How about instead of knocking something down, we pull something up?

    The real issue here isn't trapped boxes, it's that Magic Resist does next to nothing anyway. Fix the skill and you'll have people squeezing it back into their templates instead of relying on gimp workarounds.
     
  6. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    I'd say simple increase the Minimum damage that trapped boxes do... the ones I loot these days seem to be doing 5-18 dmg or so.... ( 70 physical) I think if they did 20 dmg as a minimum they would still be a required part of a non-resist template but would be more balanced. 2 mages "might" be able to kill a 0 resist character at 20 dmg a pop depending on how fast he pops his box... (or how fast his script does which is how it goes these days....)
     
  7. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I agree fix Spell resist to actually do something...... right up there with Fixing the still NOT working Stealth....

    NOthing like having someone with ZERO skill human 20 or elven 30 Detect negating 220 points of skill..... And I'm not talking normal people.... anyone warred to you will automatically reveal you anytime you are within 4 tiles of them.... You can be standing still and they reveal you just by walking by..... it's wrong....

    And leave my trapped chest alone ....... whiners.... if your going to fix that get a fix for the gimps that x box.... cause they can't straight up fight they have to completely immobilize their victims.
     
  8. jelinidas

    jelinidas Guest


    /signed
     
  9. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    While I don't like the current system, I think it's pretty stupid to say that resist is useless. If you meet someone without resist just manavamp + bola, and be done with him. If he fits a template capable to survive this, it means he made good use of the additional skill points, thus he deserves to survive, but he won't be able to win against you without mana.

    In the current system, without trapped boxes resist would be enormously overpowered, being effectively requested for every template, instead of being a choice as every other skill. Not to speak about the EO+para.

    Mind you, I think that the current system is stupid. Para duration in pvp should be seriously shortened even for 0 resist (possibly linking it to other skill/abilities as well), and at the same time trapped boxes should be completely removed from pvp. Still, currently they balance each other, and that's probably why devs have left the system untouched. Whoever asks to remove trapped boxes without touching para duration is clearly asking to make one skill (resist) mandatory for pvp, and that is very unlikely to happen. Which is good.
     
  10. Black Spirit

    Black Spirit Guest

    I would seriously WISH to see mages unable to use evil omen with para.

    Make evil omen useable with weapon specials only, no mage spells to double the effect.

    I hate having 120 resist spells only to get para killed and para ganked, and i dont use trap boxes.

    To use a trap box is like cheating just like evil omen is combined with paralize.

    Please fix this and make it balanced, so everyone can play on a even field.
     
  11. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Getting rid of Tboxes will get rid of many gimplets. And quite possibly make the playing field a living hell for many stealthers. While I personally have resist on all my PvP chars just for the purpose to counter 30 damage pain spike I was also forced to carry a Tbox for many reasons.

    I dont know how would PvP be balanced is we completely remove Tbox. I think make Tbox to deal substantially more damage would be a better solution. Back when DEV made magic trapped pouches to deal damage they were aiming for 30ish DIRECT damage per "Unpara" which IMO is reasonable. But of course players found out a way to get around it with lower skill tinkered Tboxes that deals minimal damage with unlimited charges.

    Make the Tbox damage direct aiming for 20 to 30ish DIRECT damage should be suffice. For the reference my tinker with just enough skill to make a tbox with 30% talisman. I have 30% chance to make a tbox that does 3 to 8 damage thru 70physical. which IMO is way too low of a "penalty" for a free unpara.
     
  12. drawn

    drawn Journeyman
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    OR... and this is a BIG OR........ we make Evil Omen NOT work with paralyze :yell:
     
  13. QFT

    Quit asking for nerfs for every damn thing in the game. Eventually everyone will be nerfed so bad the only viable template will be platemail wearing wet towel snappers.
     
  14. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    How about you stop being a crybaby , taking dmg to break para is not an exploit... they are taking dmg !!! If they where not it would be an exploit ...
    If you see em use boxes you know there is a good chance they got zero resist and you can use that , curse , mana vamp , poison , if you cant kill a person without he is paralyzed , well ......
     
  15. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    We need to stop NERFING stuff. Simply BUFF the damage up for Tboxes, and everyone will be happy.
     
  16. Buffing the amount of damage IS nerfing them. They can already do up to ~10% of a character's total HP's. How much more free damage do you want to give the other guy?

    How about instead of nerfing something we actually fix Resist so it works like it should? That sounds like a better solution. Trapped boxes shouldn't be a required piece of equipment, even when you have 120 Resist.
     
  17. Gotta love a thread where the OP never replies.:bs:
    I do agree tho that they should make resist worth having.
     
  18. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    Finally someone else that is having the same problem I am. My thief can't stealth around the guard zone at yew gate without being passively revealed by elves (and it seems all the blues that hideout in the guardzone are elves). Passive reveal should NOT be constantly revealing someone with 100 hiding and 120 stealth... my 80 detect hidden skill can't even do that. =( FIX IT!!

    As for the trapped boxes, I think they should be left as is, but I agree that something needs to be done about Resist spells.. buff it up, we should have a chance at 120 to resist Evil Omen.
     
  19. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    It was a joke btw.
    IMO one of the easiest way to make resist better is increase its base resistance. Say... at 120 you get 60 resist across the board. Or helping to reduce some damage or block a protion of a weapon specials.

    I dont know. But it sucks when I have to have Tbox on me at all time even if I have resist on all my faction characters.

    Removing Tbox will also make a lot of "gimp" combo uncounterable. While many people are focusing on necro/mage omen para. There are dexer para blow, dismount self, dismount attack for an easy gank. Or the dreaded double riding swipe combo. Or Para Blow=>Dismount=>All Kill.
     
  20. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    If they were to change trapped boxes then what's to stop people from using a poison potion? I can harm myself with a number of different tactics... the trapped box is just simple.

    No the change needs to come in the necessity of it.... namely paraganking Xbox mages who don't know how to fight so they have to basicly stop an opponent completely in order to do anything.

    And your crying about XBoxes in my opinion is highly over rated... 8 out of 10 times it fails for elves because they "notice" the trap and refuse to pick the lock... so in the unlikely chance that it actually works then the elf gets cut a bit of slack. I know this my main is a Dark Elf. There are many many things that need fixing and balancing before they take away a trapped box...

    Stealthing comes to mind.... as well as a number of other things. Fixing the form changers was a good start.
     
  21. Chaosy

    Chaosy Guest

    Reduce para time for EO + para (or make EO not work with para, or make EO resistible).

    Make trapped box do more damage.

    The paralyze time is fine for someone without 0 resist. That is the whole purpose of the spell: paralyze the target. If you choose not to have resist, you shouldn't cry about being paralyzed for so long as having 120 resist pretty much negates the spell unless it's used in conjunction with EO.
     
  22. Chaosy

    Chaosy Guest

    No to the 60 resist thing. It's easy enough building good armor suits as it is, not to mention that imbuing (Dear Lord please do not let SA be released) will make it so easy that a half-blind amputated chimpanzee would be able to make a godly suit.
     
  23. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I think this is a complicated issue to resolve and the only way to resolve it is to address a few other issues. Trap boxes are required right now because of EO/Para. For this reason you need to fix EO/Para at the same time as fixing trap boxes.

    I think this is how you do that.

    Increase the minimum dmg of tinker-trapped boxes to about 20
    OR
    Make dart traps mortal wound

    Make paralyze and sleep spells go against real magic resist skill level (nullifying + skill items and EO)

    Make paralyze and sleep not consume EO (preventing an unnecessary nerf to EO... they aren't using the EO adjusted MR value, so they shouldn't remove EO)

    Under these changes players can still use trap boxes to get out of para, but there is a reasonable penalty for doing so. Also, EO/para and EO/sleep are removed from pvp as they are terribly abuseable game mechanics. I realize sleep isn't in the game yet, but I think we should head that one off at the pass.
     
  24. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    i'm all for that as soon as they balance resist spells with evil omen para.

    it's the same old complaint... if 120 resist means that i'm likely to resist ALL para and if EO means that something is likely to be twice as bad, than when i get Eo/para'd, i should be half as likely to resist ALL para. it should not be a guaranteed hit and last for (whatever it is) like 4 or 6 seconds.

    i use TBs on my mage, my necromage, and my archer(s) and i don't want to see them go until they seriously give resist spells its balls back.


    oh, and for those that say that tbs allow people to drop the resist skill... wrong. most people carry both. the only ones that don't are, maybe, a few yew gate gankers who are specifically built for yew gate fighting.

    but real players who do spawns and such and who can't have their TB poppin them for 7 to 11 damage every few seconds when they get para'd by spawn, still carry RS. heh, walk into lrd oaks with no resist and a trapped box and you're likely to kill yourself. i've seen it happen.

    the only reason to carry a TB is to avoid the overpowered EO/Para. and until they fix that, i hope TB's stay around.
     
  25. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    How about they do away with trapped boxes with their near unlimited use.

    Bring back magic locked trapped pouches. Why? Well, when you die you lose them, they have a one time use to free you from paralyze. They take magery to cast. Ya you could probably succeed with the JoAT but it still takes that person out of the equation for X amount of minutes to go and restock and have to get more pouches to trap again.

    These were still used when Magic Resist still worked (for the most part) and you could still be paralyzed by spell/weapon/stun (fists).

    If we're gonna talk about nerfing trapped boxes, let's talk about the gimp paralyze/efield/stone wall bullschwank.

    And if you want to fix trapped boxes, fix Magic Reflect so that it actually reflects spells and not just messes with your base resists. It was always fun casting magic reflect and having someone paralyze themselves.
     
  26. *signs on the side of people who think that Resisting Spells should be doing more*
     
  27. Loqucious

    Loqucious Guest

    *runs to put more trapped boxes on his vendors*
     
  28. WWGRD?

    WWGRD? Adventurer
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    Do you not see the problem with this suggestion? Yes, you could use a poison potion, but can you carry one single poison pot and have it break para every single time while never running out? If trapped boxes were limited use, no one would complain about them.
     
  29. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Vs a 120 resist how long does Eo last 2 seconds? Thats the balance if you ask me. Ive lost my traped pouches long ago and i cried.. a little. But i sucked it up and moved on!
     
  30. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    How about making trap boxes do significant damage(25+) AND make para spell like para blow special?

    By para spell like para blow special, I mean it will only effect a char every 3 seconds or some equally arbitrary time.

    But, make NO change to para fields.

    Thus, people can run a trap box at a significant penalty but don't have to worry as much about para spam.

    They need to "kill" spamming spells... as an example, pain spike only works once with subsequent casts doing NOTHING.
     
  31. Chaosy

    Chaosy Guest

    Spamming pain spike is fine. People carry refresh pots or use divine fury. It's hard enough trying to chase down someone who just runs as it is.
     
  32. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    longer.

    either way, all Eo should do is lower your chance to resist para. instead, it guarantees that para will land, no matter what.

    look, i don't know the numbers, but let's say that 120 resist gives you a 50% chance to avoid para completely (against a 120 eval). so, Eo should drop that chance to 25% at 120 SS.

    the question isn't how long the para lasts - it is if the para even lands at all.
     
  33. *SNAPS Connor with towel*

    If they wouldn't have nerfed In Jux ages ago, we could still use trapped pouches.

    :lick:
     
  34. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    so kill them and take the trapped box..... move on.....
     
  35. Divster

    Divster Guest

    Oh pls learn to kill someone without having to rely on a paralyse ability, its bad enough that games like wow have ridiculous spells that make you run away from your opponents (no really I don't care if you can counter them its pathetic and boring to have to contemplate such a procedure), but to actually suggest that we should have the resist spells skill simply to counter such a lame approach to combat is beyond a joke.

    If magic resist was to actually offer some benefit vs magic attacks other than the one spell you are suggesting I would be all for the removal of trapped boxes, but to devote 100 or 120 skill points simply to avoid being paralysed while my opponent shrieks with purile glee is something I'll avoid thanks very much. magic resist needs a buff, make it actually worth having for reasons other than being para fielded or mana drained and i'll happily agree to remove trapped boxes, better still, mages can use parry, dci, disarm against dexers, not to mention mage weps which basically give them a wep skill for free!! What have dexers got vs mages? evasion and that can only be used for pathetically short amounts of time as an active ability and bleed (if you can land a hit), hci? try going aginst a parry mage with 65 dci. Bring back the ability to actually resist magic damage!!!!! Then and only then remove trapped boxes and I will full heartedly endorse this suggestion
     
  36. WWGRD?

    WWGRD? Adventurer
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    Oh that's intelligent. As if I haven't been, I have a secure full of the damned things, made by several different people. I personally am not box-reliant, so they gather dust. Pvping for 2-3 hours will net you 10-15 of the damned things. They are over-abused and need tweaking.
     
  37. MR_CLEAN

    MR_CLEAN Guest

    I agree with the poster above that Magic Reflection needs to be restored.

    It's funny to watch casting monsters in PvM lead with Magic Arrow. That's old skool!!! :)

    As for Resist, it should actually function for something. I dropped it off two of my templates, and I haven't missed it at all.

    Then again, there are several other spells and skills in this game that had a use at one point that are nothing but wastes of kilobytes now.
     
  38. Well what's the point... Being able to "move" at all while paralyzed is beyond stupid, no matter how many times you figure is fair for trapped boxs to be used. You're paralyzed, you should not be able to do anything! :coco:

    I agree with your point, allowing players to drop resist spells to simply click a box to escape paralyze, is a basic exploit. Not only due to my above point, but it simply allows players to build templates with other more handy skills that add more offense or abilities.

    Personally I have tried it and I refuse to use a trapped box. I still run with no resist on some of my PvP templates tho, simply due to added offense, but I accept the risk of being para ganked.

    If the majority of players feel EO+Paralyze is game breaking... Fix it!

    If you feel paralyze is gimp, don't want to have resists spells, and feel you should be able to avoid paralyze by clicking a box, your just a whiner with no backbone... :loser:

    As for why they allow you to click a trapped box while paralyzed is beyond me.
     
  39. And if Magic Resist actually, well...., resisted magic, no one would use them and then there wouldn't be anything to complain about.

    Seems we have a catch-22 here.....
     
  40. Divster

    Divster Guest

    If you feel trapped boxes are gimp, and want to see someone dedicate 100-120 pts just to avoid 1 spell, your just a whiner with no backbone... :loser:
     
  41. Don't MAKE me get out my Vorpal Beach Towel. :stretcher:



    Someone would probably start complaining that it's overpowered and want to nerf it...
     
  42. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Wouldn't it be too simple for the Energy Fields to both block passage retaining their tactical value, but also damage valid targets, releasing them early from Omen Gangs?

    This way a Necro can still completely freeze a target and combo them with 100% success even without traditional pre-casting. Explo/Explo/Whatever; One free Explo damage in 1 on 1. That's mighty enough for a spell like Omen.
    So Omen would not lose it's function in such a scenario, people won't get physically restrained(as physical as a game can be) and helpless in gangs and everyone's happy.

    Resolve the issue of the Boxes breaking Omen by adding a timer to how often players can use the box.
    Making it 1 time only would only force people to carry more and that's all. Easy to deal with.
    And if they decide to make it unclickable while under Para, then they should dissallow bandies, pots or anything else under Para or they're bound for some loud, justified(through pure logic) whining.

    As for Resist being useless anyway? I don't know about that. Mana Drain/Vampire, Curse, Necro Spells Duration/Effect, Paralyse and all those Mysticism and Spellweave spells.. And then even more stuff. Like Poison. Yeah before you scream it's too easy to cure I know poisons and potions needs rework but for now, suppose they get it!

    I think X-Fielding is sort of hard-coded therefore Energy Fields and probably Stone Walls and so on cannot be made to block each other out or I'd go for that too, to make sure there's no problem.

    To improve Resist I'd change it's name to Will Resistance or Will Power and include in it the ability to block or significantly reduce the Weapon Special Moves, including Bushido/Ninja and Consecrate Weapon, Curse Weapon, Holy Light, Wither, AoE of Poison Strike, Stamina Damage from Pain Spike... That sort of thing.

    An alternative is always reverting to blocking direct damage spells. Which is only fair as spells never miss and it's always been hotly debated how to counter this.
    Evasion is very badly thought out even now by the way, it's either OPed or worthless depending how you make it work- and it also works against everything, not JUST spells so it's good for ALL templates.. Know what I mean? It's not the solution.
     
  43. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    The evil omen its self lasts 2 seconds. If they get the para off before duration goes off was my point as to balance!. A Eo para should have 100% sucess and last a while but the duration of Eo vs n equal resist-Spirit speak should be about the time to cast the 5th lvl spell @ FC2. You run They fail!

    But the Main thing is with a 4 sec aid and pot chuging A single caster has no chance to kill a player this way anyhow. Multiple casters Yes. Thats the show anyhow!
     
  44. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Paralyze is so gimp =/

    I say remove the spell completely. It's only good for ganking, or freezing someone so they can efield/stone wall you in, then **** you at will.

    Sure you want to stop someone from running away... but why would they be running away? Either they're low on health and want to get away to heal up then come back for round two, or they're about to be ganked by more para ganking noobs.

    When do you really ever use paralyze in PvM? Not often.

    With or without magic resist, paralyze is lame. What skill is there to kill someone who can't really do anything because they're frozen? Where's the fun in that?

    I thought part of the fun in PvP was for there to be somewhat of a challenge. Kind of hard to have a challenge if the person you're fighting isn't even fighting back.
     
  45. MR_CLEAN

    MR_CLEAN Guest

    Things sure have changed since the pre-Ren days when 5 reds would jump you, para you, and kill you just to get your stuff...and that usually wasn't much.

    Para-killing has been around since about the 2nd day of the game...it took everybody that long to macro up the skill to cast para ;)

    Hey...it could be worse, back then...para lasted the full duration, whether you were getting hit or not. So all someone had to do was para you, pull out a halbard and go nuts! Not a thing you could do about it.
     
  46. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Works for me. I just wanted to throw out the topic and get ideas brewing. I figured people would look at it a different way then I did. Hopefully there's a plan to change the way things "work"...