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Player Housing

Discussion in 'Roxey Inn' started by wired172, Oct 20, 2013.

  1. wired172

    wired172 Visitor

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    This seems the perfect spot to bring up player housing, since Ultima Online did it so perfectly. I would really love to see a UO housing system in The Elder Scrolls Online. I think it would fit beautifully in the TESO. You could use the terrain to prevent player houses from ruining the landscapes or building large, lore breaking player towns. I really miss being able to show off my gaming skills by displaying the "world boss trophy" in my home, as well as my artistic side with the creative ways I decorated my housing area.

    ps. Thank you for reading this and taking my opinion in to consideration.
     
    #1 wired172, Oct 20, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2013
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  2. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    The last I read on the subject matter they wont have player housing. It may has changed since then.

    If they went with a player housing I would think a DaoC similar style housing area would be much better than UO since it would be in a designated area.
     
    #2 Zosimus, Oct 22, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  3. wired172

    wired172 Visitor

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    I have never played DaoC, but I assume by "designated area" you mean instanced. If so, I hope they don't go that way. (although it would be better than nothing) But I would prefer to be out questing or exploring, see someone's house and be impressed by the way they decorated it, or notice an "ancient dragon skull" mounted above their door, and figure out how to get one for my house. Then show off a kickass dragon skull at my house. But like you said, I have no idea if there will be housing at all. If there is, personally I would prefer it not be instanced.
     
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  4. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    No it's not instance. You go to the housing zone. and go to your house (the plot you bought and built a house on). You can see other players houses around you and styles they chose. You can decorate the house on the inside. You did pay rent each week on the house which varied on the size of the house.


    http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/housing/manual


    I would prefer that type of housing than UO way of placement for various reasons. As an example, lets say a player has placed a house in a most desirable spot in the game that has little or no housing. The land and view is spectacular and very rare in the game to achieve such a place. This puts a real life monetary value to it because other players would offer to buy it. It's already tough for developers to police such transactions in MMO's even if the TOS say its illegal. Real life money transactions hurts a game in my opinion and knocks the economy out of whack.

    I would also like to use GW2 as an example. We have instanced neighborhoods which reflects what we do in the game as our journey progresses on choices we make. Now the game land itself is used by the developers for the living world content( every 2 weeks we get new content) so they actually use the land and add changes to it when needed. That I really enjoy and find very exciting about GW2. What may has been the same for months or a year can be altered or changed since ANET considers the game a living game. Now that is just me and not saying Elder Scrolls should not do player housing like UO if they would ever try it. Whatever works for the game is best.
     
  5. DeadBob

    DeadBob Ancient Alien
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    Housing improves a game's chances to retain players so I hope that TESO does offer it in some form.
    A home allows a player to create a bit of their own space within the game where they can store valuables, meet with friends and express their individuality. It increases the players loyalty to a game and in the long run fosters the feeling that the game itself is a home for the player.
    It's easier to feel loyalty to a place where you live.
     
  6. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Sorry DeadBob. I disagree. Housing has it pros and cons but in the end its game content and new updates which improves a game chance's to retain players.


    Let me use UO as an example since the OP brought up a UO housing style system.

    If players are looking for a UO housing system then they may as well stay with UO. The UO housing system retains accounts not players. Meaning a single player can have 2, 4 10, 50 accounts and have houses on each account on one shard or spread out on several shards. Look at the aspect of activity. The same player can let an X amount of accounts go inactive for 90 days while retaining that land spot and house. So the most desirable land spots are rarely retaken by current active players or give a new player a chance to acquire that spot. So is the player just holding houses spots for monetary gain while not being an active player in the community. What good does housing do then if a game has less active players but tons of owned and unused housing that looks like a ghost town in most places?

    Active players is your community. People that log on and play the game at least 3 times a week is part of that games active community. Players who just log on to renew their accounts to hold their houses and spots and not be back in 90 days is not truly part of the active community. So a new player or a current active player notices their are less and less people on. They may change their game time to try to find other players. That doesn't work and they can't really hunt with other players, the player either decide to play solo type templates or just find another game.

    When a MMO is in the making, developers cant just assume that gamers/players are a type of game and focus on a singular aspect of that type of gamer. We all have different play-styles. Where some players like PvE only others PvP only and players who enjoy both. If devs only focus on one aspect of a game and not all of a vast variety of types of game play the game isn't going to make it very long. They have to create a game with all types of play-styles and again content is key.

    In the end, housing is just a perk. I'd rather see a healthy, vibrant game with a healthy population that is playing and raoming the lands. I like playing with others. I like to see the game. I enjoy the "LFG" to go hunts or guildmates wanting to defend the lands. I live in a house in real life. Why should my character, that is all about seeking adventure, saving the girl, saving the villages, defending the lands I am roaming be cooped in a house in a game. I am already doing that when I am home. :p. I seek fun and adventure in a game :)



    The Elder Scrolls Online has great potential just the game content itself. I am not against housing in the game, but if they would implement a housing system in the game's future, I would hope they would have strict regulations, where housing can not be just owned and forgotten. Make the player to keep activity like paying rent to retain the house.
     
    #6 Zosimus, Nov 2, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  7. DeadBob

    DeadBob Ancient Alien
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    Your observations about UO housing are certainly true, Zosimus. I remember when they first programmed accounting to housing and have since been able to IDOC houses that once belonged to a player who is no longer subscribing to the game. But if a paying player does own a house, I consider it none of my business what they do with it, if anything.
    And while the UO housing system does have its flaws, flawed housing systems are no argument against housing itself. The benefits of housing remain.
    There are different ways to provide housing and they are great content for almost any type of player.
    In today's competitive market, a good housing system would give TESO an edge.
    :)
     
    #7 DeadBob, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  8. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    In today's market yes, housing would give it a competitive edge but it' just an extra perk to the game. Good game design, technology and content should always comes first. That is what makes a good MMO and a loyal playing base.The Devs did state no housing at launch but doesn't mean later on they will add it.

    I only used UO flawed example. UO population, even in it's hey-day, isn't even close population wise compared to more modern MMO's. It may be UO strongest selling point. Todays' MMO's with millions of players, GW2, WoW, Rift, Tera, Aion, in these games imagine the data just for housing for players to be developed, saved, and stored on the severs. GW2 has 250 devs working on the game and we do have "Instance Neighborhoods" but no housing. I prefer devs to work on game content and fixes. Housing has it's issues in any game.

    Many, and I will say again, many articles have been written over the years about housing in MMO's and they all have the same message. It's a perk not a necessity to create a successful MMO.

    I think the issue is players want features from games they played built in a new game that has caught their interest. This goes for all games. Player A wants the game to have a similar UO housing. Player B wants the game to have raids like WoW. Player C wants Rift combat system. I can go on and on. The issue is there itself. If you want features from a game you played and enjoyed I would suggest play that game and not ask developers to make Game XYZ like the other game you are leaving.

    To many people were waiting for the next WoW killer to be made. They went into games hoping they would be and left disappointed. Many WoW players themselves that got tired of it went to other games and came back to WoW. The same goes for the hardcore UO players. They tried other games but it wasn't UO so they came back to UO.

    Developers already have an idea what the game is going to be. They talk and build communities but even then, that is the small majority of any game. TESO will be successful with the content and game design itself. Again, housing is just a perk. Comes down to it players will either stay married to their game they like or divorce it. They may even have seperations from time to time but in the end they have their choices.

    So if TESO doesn't have housing at all will it make it a failure? We do not know.

    If TESO add housing will it make it a success? We do not know.

    Players and a healthy community what makes a good MMO becomes a success.
     
  9. DeadBob

    DeadBob Ancient Alien
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    You are right of course but the obvious aside, what kind of housing system do you think might fit best in the world of TESO?
     
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  10. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    I would prefer a housing system like DaoC. The reason why I like that system is the housing is in a zone which they do have more desirable spots that others.

    Also....

    1) House spots are on a reverse auction system. Every hour the house plot decreases an x amount till it finally hits bottom price 300 gold.

    2) Players pay a weekly rent. This curbs house holding for non active playing players. This I definitely like because even though players pay a sub and may not be very active, they have to donate so much gold to keep their house or lose it. So if player A hardly plays but paid in advance 100 gold for a cottage and rent is 20 gold a week they have the house for 5 weeks. If they come back and play they can pay more rent to hold the house. Player B pays their sub but bought a desirable spot but only paid for 6 weeks rent and doesn't come back the house plot get repossessed and goes back up for auction. Player C buys a house plot but doesn't build a house and on the 7th day the house plot is repossessed and goes back up for auction.


    Active players deserve a chance to have better housing spots in any MMO my opinion. There are flaws in the DaoC housing. Unexpected sickness or something can cause an active player to lose a house plot. If they had 200 gold rent stored on the house but was in the hospital for 2 months and rent was 50 gold a week by the time they get back they lost their house. It's been a while but I also think they have a limit of how much can be stored for rent. I agree with the developers choice on that for the obvious reasons of house holding issues.

    LoTR housing system is very similar. It's another system I like and just like DaoC they have a weekly upkeep costs. LoTR and DaoC both have similar yet different systems but I think both have great basics for housing.

    Now SWG, I have came across posts where players say it was the best system ever but I never played it or have knowledge of the system.
     
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  11. DeadBob

    DeadBob Ancient Alien
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    Star Wars Galaxy I have played -as well as UO- and the housing there is perfectly acceptable, though it is not so interactive as UO. But what is? UO was designed first & foremost to be an interactive world and that is why I still play it. It is a game unmatched by any other in terms of interactivity. Perhaps it all comes down to personal preference. Does the gamer want housing & if so, what kind? Me, I want a house I can place anywhere there's an open spot to my liking and that I can design tile by tile.

    One old method was used by REALM, where everyone was given a house as part of their game startup. The house was not part of the regular game world so no one had a placement advantage. Houses were separate screens that included yards. Access could be granted to any friend so the social advantages of housing were part of the game.

    Maybe what we need is something new, something that appeals to player creativity without messing up the original game world. Any Ideas?
     
    #11 DeadBob, Nov 9, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013
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  12. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Housing should be in cities and villages. Now that is my opinion but I know in DaoC we always had out guild meetings by a fire in town. We had a guild house but we felt it was important to the community to be seen having active meetings in towns and proudly show off our numbers.

    Now if a MMO would allow players to buy plots of lands within the game cities or villages and be designed to the game time period it's based on, including types of races ( humans, elves, goblins, and so on) housing styles, I would think that be a plus.

    I am just against designs that take away from the feel of the game's time period. UO ice tiles is great example of not being part of the game. Plus anybody can build a huge cube. Housing should look like a house. Not like a warehouse or lets say the Borg Cube. Then again UO camera view is more above then modern MMO's which are like FPV. Modern MMO's have that advantage of using the environment than UO because they are not based on limitations of the game codes as UO is.

    The game environment ( outside of housing) should be untouched and no housing. Now lets talk about expansions, add that where players can form villages and build housing into newer lands then I could agree to that if it's only designated parts of that land. Building healthy game communities, guilds, role players, begin with cities, towns, and villages in the game. Players always go to the "hotspot" to interact with others. UO's Brit back in the day was the place to be. Luna basically killed it. There is a prime example what not to do when a developer looks to adding more to a game.
     
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  13. DeadBob

    DeadBob Ancient Alien
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    Keeping housing in cities and villages is better than blighting the countryside. Good solution! More neighborhoods could be added as needed. As for permitted styles of housing, if UO proves anything it demonstrates that not all tastes are the same as yours or mine. Thanks for your replies, Zosimus. We need to keep the housing discussion going. I am looking forward to playing TESO, but without housing, it'll never feel like home.
    On a side note, I was there when Moonglow was the hip place to hang out in UO. Then the orcs invaded & peeps moved to Britain. Then the invasion of the generals pushed people to Luna. Players hang out in safe spots.

    Ever visited the Daedalus Project?
    http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001647.php
    Nick Yee ran that site for years, using gamer input as the basis for his PhD. There are some real insights there about who we are. Mainly :p we're a diverse bunch with strong opinions :D
    "I look back over these 10 years of doing these online surveys and I’m deeply appreciative of every gamer who filled out my surveys (and there are over 70,000 of you who did), ... and especially those of you who have been participating and commenting on the project since my undergrad days and have helped spread the word in the gaming community." - Nick Yee
    Nick Yee is a social scientist who studies how people behave and interact in virtual worlds and online games.
     
    #13 DeadBob, Nov 11, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
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  14. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    YW and thank you for the link :) I am going to check it out.

    The only thing we do know that at least at launch there is no housing for TESO. Maybe later on it will but I heard that for GW2 before they released it. At this time we have no housing atm.
     
  15. Acid phreak

    Acid phreak Visitor

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    Uo... awesome game when it came out was finally killed when they brought out the tram/fel mistake to satisfy all the people that didnt like open world pvp.im hoping the devs on teso dont make the same mistake, yes we all know its an open game and u can dungeon with your mates and so forth but will people soon start to complain again but loss of loot and so forth because they were ganked ?. housing ? uo had good housing when there was no space u couldnt place houses end of fact thus creating a small "ingame" market for house spaces, alot of ppl placed small houses quickly to take up space to later place keeps or castles.housing on a mass scale might suck with the amount of detail in the game on items and housing aswell with monster spawns and mobs.

    suggestions...

    1/ in the major citys have shops/houses/buildings for rent they are there might aswell let us use them instead of deco. wheather it be ingame coin/gold or u make a little on the side and charge a monthly fee with the subscription. thus keeping a steady market of blacksmiths/vendors and industry for players to interact with.not expecting ppl to go fishing and so forth but im sire ppl might want to sell weapons and stuff they have made.
    2/ make houses extremly expensive and account bound. no selling after there placed and 1 per acount
    3/ castles would be nice for big guilds. if u want a big gaming community to stick together make housing only avail to guilds, expensive and have a min char ammount required. and a upkeep for it make people "want" to band together for benefits, having your guild castle raided might prompt a quick response from hundreds of players to hit another alliance.

    is it going to be be ike wow where only your faction/race can see what u type ? or like uo where everyone can see what u type untill your dead OooOoo..

    would be nice to see some talk of guilds forming in this game, moving over form other games and so forth
     
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  16. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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  17. DeadBob

    DeadBob Ancient Alien
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    Acid:
    "shops/houses/buildings" in a game mostly have an ingame use and are too limited in number to provide housing to players. [That said :pint: I'd love to rent the town Inn.]
    Communications with other players will probably include filters so you can target who sees your messages.
    You are exactly right that it "would be nice to see some talk of guilds forming in this game." See the new thread, "Guilds," under "Alliances" at
    http://stratics.com/community/threads/guilds.307954/
    & thanks for the suggestion!
     
    #17 DeadBob, Nov 25, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  18. Acid phreak

    Acid phreak Visitor

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    Thanks for the links Zos. alot of interesting **** to read not going to be an over nite game.

    Player housing doesnt look like its going to happen which is good, its the last thing we wanna see on Ebay is housing for sale in TESO... but on the upside there is sort of player housing. Keeps which we fight for and each have an upkeep ! 5 of them in each faction where we can put "guild" vendors which i didnt quiet understand how that will work .. like who captured it whos going to allow who to place what and where ?. when asked if u had to find a player "GM" to join a guild or an npc they avoided or sidestepped the question and said u had to speak to the mages guild or fighters guild, i believe the person was asking about player run guilds not ingame based guilds part of the story and lore.

    i dont consider myself a roleplayer so to speak, i dont use the old uo thee's and thou's, but in this game im looking forward to the roleplaying a brenton assasin and forming a big "Cartel" based guild for mass pvp(keep catching .. maybe were for hire ? ) with other factions,with or without consent death is part of this game so if u play this game in the back of your mind u know its a 3 way war with no end game so youll want buddies watching your 6.so stratics as a "community" should come together and form a massive alliance, choose a faction and start writing some lore and history fortelling the gathering of the alliance from across the lands bla bla bit of lore some naked elfs and crap and im sure itll be an "a grade" seller so when the game starts up not only will players come here looking for ingame advice and or events and ideas as they alwas have but but to join our cause of hundreds of players.theres a mix of pvp players and role players here put them together from all the games and u have alot of resource's.
     
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  19. DeadBob

    DeadBob Ancient Alien
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    Excellent ideas, Acid:

    i dont consider myself a roleplayer so to speak, i dont use the old uo thee's and thou's, but in this game im looking forward to the roleplaying a brenton assasin and forming a big "Cartel" based guild for mass pvp(keep catching .. maybe were for hire ? ) with other factions,with or without consent death is part of this game so if u play this game in the back of your mind u know its a 3 way war with no end game so youll want buddies watching your 6.so stratics as a "community" should come together and form a massive alliance, choose a faction and start writing some lore and history fortelling the gathering of the alliance from across the lands bla bla bit of lore some naked elfs and crap and im sure itll be an "a grade" seller so when the game starts up not only will players come here looking for ingame advice and or events and ideas as they alwas have but but to join our cause of hundreds of players.theres a mix of pvp players and role players here put them together from all the games and u have alot of resource's.

    Can you get the discussion started on the "Alliance" thread? I'd enjoy following that.
     
  20. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    Its meanwhile announced that housing is not included at release.

    I expect many player to mourn about, course housing in some way was part of many/most/all other elder scrolls games. (Only played Daggerfall myself, so i dont know for shure for the newer titles.)

    When it gets implemented, I would expect instanced housing areas like in LOTRO or DAOC. Houses in the open world dont seem possible to me. Imagine how many player will be on one of the mega servers. (Actually 4 are planned: 1 us, 1 europe, 1 xbox and 1 for ps.) I even can imagine that housing wont be open for the players but for (bigger) guilds only. I dont think, the current solution to guild shops will work that well/without many players complaining about. Having housing zones and guild houses with shops/auctinators there would be a possible work around. I even can imagine that you might need to be a former emperor or have one in your guild, before you get the right to place a house.