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Players' Vendors : How about time to get "Buy" vendors ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Mar 21, 2010.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Given the lower number of players these days, where even Houses in Luna on some shards are emptied out of vendors or have vendors often not restocked, it has become a nightmare and too much time consuming endeavour to find some items.

    How about we call it time to give to players "Buy" Vendors as opposed to the currently available "Sell" vendors ?

    That is, vendors which players can place in their homes with a list of items they are looking for, at a price set by them.

    Those players wanting to sell anything might them browse the "Buy" vendors' listings and if they see an asked item they have at a price they are willing to sell they will just drop the item to the "Buy" vendor and the gold will be debited from the buyer's account and into the seller's account.

    Of course, if the buyer does not have the funds, the item will bounce back into the seller's backpack.

    This way, players looking for given items would not have to spend countless time looking for them on vendors almost always empty or spamming at the bank for hours.
     
  2. Gem

    Gem Lore Keeper
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    Nice idea :)
     
  3. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    Very nice idea however people like to negotiate prices when they are buying things, Apart from that I like it!
     
  4. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Good god people, please do not feed the trolls.
     
  5. gjohnson5

    gjohnson5 Guest

    It would be an interesting feature if the current vendors had dual function and purchased items if the vendor had enough gold on hand. I guess the question would be how would he player vendor barter for items? Vendors outside luna might be harder to find , but I still spend the time due to pricing.
     
  6. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    It's being done successfully in a number of other games, although I don't see a way that what's being done there can be implemented here (easily).

    EQ - has a "bazaar" with both buyers and sellers - the buyers post what they are willing to pay for an item, how many they can buy, and it's up to the PC if they decide to sell to them or to try to set up their own sell vendor instead.

    Vanguard (and I've heard WoW) both have a bulletin board type system, but both more or less operate like the EQ version, just without the avatar for interaction.

    It's really not a bad idea - if you only have an item or 2 you want to move, and you don't want to set up a home vendor or rent a spot in Luna, it would be a nice option to have.
     
  7. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I played WoW for a while to check it out. And I must say, the bulletin board type system was awesome for buying/selling. That should be implemented :D
     
  8. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I actually like the idea!
     
  9. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    But wouldn't that defeat the purpose of player run malls,auctions,and shopping centers,vender homes,vlaue of the realtor market. As well as finding back alley deals,and some other foreseable problems.
     
  10. ChReuter

    ChReuter Guest

    Good lord man, popps has just as much right to post here as you. Why did you even open this thread if he was the one who started it. You do know that this is a general board for UO, meaning anyone with an idea that has to do with the game can post it here. You and a few others here would like to have this right revoked it seems. Really the only trolls are the ones putting him down for posting. I don't give a damn what he post about or if his post are annoying, what matters is he stays on the topic of said board and he does. I find his post a lot better than your replies. You sir are a real jerk.

    If you don't like the man posting than put him on ignore if we have it here, or just skip over his post. It's real simple, but calling someone a troll for posting an idea for UO seems like it doesn't fall under what belongs here. Really, whose the troll? Elitism runs rampant with a few of you.
     
  11. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good idea. But as it is the market is really run by a small section of typically over-priced shops. This bulletin-board system would allow everyone an equal chance to get their items on the market viewable by everyone. Not everyone can afford to put up vendors where most everyone can see it. Would help fight those over-priced goods quite well too.

    Wouldn't really devalue homes too badly though. If anything the bulletin-board system would lower the prices on lots of things in this game.

    Edit:
    Granted it would be a very massive change. But I just like the idea.
     
  12. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Now now, I think he finally got a decent idea in here. We must admire the rarity of the occurrence.
     
  13. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Actually would. Those with a endless supply will bring the value down on everything to almost nothing because of competition. Those who want to actually make any gold from there hard work will have no choice but to sell for gold pennys not even worth the trouble of doinf things legaly. Not even resellers like me will have a chance in this market. Legit players who spend days collecting these items will make more if they just kill trogs. Leaving the market controlled only for dupers and 23hour -7 days of week people. Even though dupes don't occur easily but once one occurs whatever products being duped will flood the market forever that not even the 23hour-7days of week people will be able to stay in.
    Ever wonder what would happen if a relic fragment sells for 2-3k gold for a whole year? Everything else will be at 100-200 gold worth except for the rares that are unique and homes.This partly because many other items and resource,smith,tailor system are now based on the cost of imbuing ingredients. Though I assure you a giant crash of the 11+ year old UO economy will collapse and every thing else with it. We are not built like that. Most of WOW concepts would destroy UO and vice versa.
     
  14. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Would it destroy UO? I personally don't know and you can only guess. You can't guarantee a collapse over an idea. I just think the idea would be cool giving everyone a fair chance of selling items in a market that is run by Luna. Naturally it would be expected to get resistance from people who do not want a lot of competition.
     
  15. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Competition is one thing. Anybody can rent a luna vender if they want. Anybody can make a mall in the middle of nowhere and drop runes. Right now there is nothing to stop people from competing. But if I go and sell for 1 year straight a val hammer on a global market for lets say 1mil gold. Who in the world is going to be able to compete with me. People can't buy me out and sell at a higher price cause it's a global market so there is no checks and balances. Everyone will continue to buy from me for the whole year for there needs. Are you or anybody willing to collect bods and maintain a collection just to sell the highest of those rewards for less than 1 mil? I would have complete dominance of that market. Then add in others like that with different items they in turn will have complete dominance in the market as well. Untill there is only 1 or 2 players that will control each item in all the shard.
     
  16. Fink

    Fink Guest

    I see a few problems here.

    I think merchants have enough to do making or gathering wares, stocking and pricing vendors, promoting their shops, and dealing with griefers without having to physically track down buyers also.

    If you're on a shard where they don't regularly maintain "selling" vendors, why would they bother browsing "buying" vendors? Isn't half the problem that they don't put in enough effort anyway?

    Add to that, as much as this happens already, hardly anybody is going to set up a "buying" vendor with a fair price on it. Almost everyone will lowball to the point where, again, hardly any merchants will bother to browse "buying" vendors.

    ---

    There has always been an element of discovery to finding good UO vendors, it's just that now most people can't be bothered to look beyond Luna (or certain sites that accomplish this for them) and throw their hands up as if the situation is intractable.

    Proximity of a shop to a moongate or town has only ever meant profitability and exposure for the shop owner. Rarely does this translate to reliability or consistency for the shopper. If anything, these shops are prone to selling out (or price hikes to discourage total buy outs, or to simply cash in) more than the little dedicated shop you find out in the woods.

    The off-track establishments are typically better organised, more reasonably priced, and more diversely stocked than Luna "arti/scroll" convenience stores. People will spend whole days dumbly killing the same mobs over and over, but won't spend a few hours looking around for a decent shop to patronise. Once you discover these shops and populate your runebook, shopping becomes much less an ordeal.
     
  17. Jesara

    Jesara Guest

    I would love any idea that would help find what I'd like to buy. I really don't like shopping in RL or UO, and as said, even Luna has few vendors now. I'd rather shop at non-Luna vendors, but its hard to find them nowdays.
     
  18. LordDrago

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    Pain in chest......left arm numb.......GOOD GOD

    I actually like Popps idea....

    Is this a sign of the coming apocalypse?


    Anyway.....implemented properly, I think this idea could work. Might even be a cool addition to Magincia. Players can post an item, quantity, and price that they wish to buy. Players can browse the list, and sell items to the broker, who checks the buyers bank box (or somewhere else could also be implemented), and when confirmed by the seller (sell X quantity of item Y for Z gold - yes or no), the transaction is completed. Broker would coordinate the sale to the highest buyer.
     
  19. popps

    popps Always Present
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    And so what ? They enjoy playing the game that way ? Then they will find the time to browse "Buy" vendors or be replaced by merchants who do ...........
    The game evolves........

    It is not only merchants who have items to sell but also ordinary players who do not even run a vendor. A bunch of players might be interested in browsing such vendors and sell stuff taking dust in their secures.


    Maybe yes, maybe no.......
    If someone is looking for a given item but cannot find it, chances are that the player, wanting the item, will set a reasonable price on the "Buy" vendor to see that item be dropped. Perhaps for a few days the price will be set lower, but after a few days empty handed, if the player wants the item they will raise it to a figure that more likely can get a sale.


    The problem is, that not all players have that much time at hand to spend on a multi player game. A lot of players have a life to live, people around to deal with, problems to solve, money to bring home to pay for the bills.....
    This might leave little time to be spent on a game and when time is short, players may want to filter what to do very carefully so as to spend it in what is the most fun for them, and not in annoying and time consuming chores which then reduce the actual fun playing time to almost nothing.......
     
  20. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I sincerely hope you mean NPC broker.......

    The least control there is of the process from other players but the end buyers and the actual sellers, the better, IMHO. No middlemen, please............
     
  21. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Depends what you consider a consuming chore. I think pvp is a consuming chore thats why I stop engaging it and enjoy my merchanting challenges. Do I want pvp to be do away with because I believe other players shouldn't have to have to pvp for items or miners should live in peace in felluccia or to fight the new champ spawns in the abyss? NO. It's not my concern what another player choose to do with there time. Sure I would like no more pvp so there be no more nerf or so I can go take on some of the pvp area only monsters in peace. But I have no place to dictate what another player considers fun and wishes to do with there time.
     
  22. While the idea has merit (OUCH) Fink has it correct. It seems you have no idea how much time and effort actually goes into stocking and maintaining a full vendor house. Merchants also have other things to do in game, and already spend hours upon hours dedicated solely to stocking and obtaining stock for the vendors they have. They're not going to want to have to search the entire map for a buyer. There's enough effort already in marking and dropping runes on top of keeping their vendors stocked up day to day. We don't need yet another type of vendor. If someone really wants to buy something, there are plenty of outlets available to them such as Chat, posting on forums, and going shopping.

    I think I hurt myself permanently after typing that first sentence......need.......a........doctor....... :stretcher:
     
  23. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I like the idea, though I do agree it has some merchant issues.

    One way to handle this would be to actually help merchants.

    Try this variation:

    a. Limit of one "Buyer" per home.
    b. Buyer can be set for only one item type at a time.
    c. Item to be bought must be a stackable, deedable, item, and vendor does not buy deeds (though pays out in deeds).
    d. Quantity and price offered are set, and cannot be altered until the transaction complete, or vendor dismissed.
    e. Vendor must be loaded with the proper amount of gold/checks before it starts buying.
    f. If one speaks the phrase "I'm looking to sell _______" to an NPC in town, the game will respond with a message saying none is available, or will randomly pick one buyer NPC on that facet and say "I heard that (buyer name) at (sextant coordinates of NPC) might be buying that." If said in Luna, it could be someone inside the city walls, or someone at the ass-end of the desert south of Umbra, with a dozen buyers actually closer, but not chosen at the time.
    g. to claim a completed contract off the buyer, the owner has to pay the NPC an additional 1% per day since the contract was set, at which time it gives the material, and resets to wait for the next material to be requested.
    h. One has to drop one of the requested item on the Buyer vendor as an example of what to buy.
     
  24. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, yes and no.
    I mean, with the plenty outlets out there I still bump into fellow players who complain that they cannot find what they are looking for or that if they find it, the price is not what they were looking to spend for that item.

    Chats and posting on forums is ok, but it has the cons that only addresses the people on chat at that moment or who browse the trades forum which, generally speaking, is a minority of the shard's population.
    Besides, often players complain of people using the Chat for trading purposes (both buying and selling) and I found that hardly anyone logs into the trade Chat making it not much usefull to either sell or buy anything.

    And going shopping can be very time consuming as those who do it in search of a given item may well know.

    Having Buy vendors I think would address all these problems and close an existing gap in the economy.

    Players could post item and price they are looking for on their Buy Vendor and have an additional tool to find what they are looking for.

    This does not exclude continuing shopping or posting on Forums or on Chat.
    It is only something "more" to help buyers which still does not excluse the ability to keep buying as we have now.
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
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    With the zillion items we got in the game that a player could be interested in buying limiting purchases with this system to just 1 at any given time is not a tad too extreme ?

    It could actually be a nuisance to merchants who would have to hit tens if not hundreds of Buy vendors to significantly make a dent to their inventory of wares for sale...

    If instead there was no item limit, the selling player that can sell to that Buy vendor, the more items the better, will be quite happier than just think to have to hit a whole lot of vendors to sell the wares in stock......
     
  26. Then maybe they're looking for an unrealistic asking price. Outside of Luna, most vendors charge reasonable rates. Every player in the game has had to spend at least a little bit of time checking out vendor houses from the runes dropped at moongates and banks and compiling a rune book full of ones that they liked for future shopping needs. Unless people that had one of these so called "buy" vendors started dropping runes themselves, then no merchant is going to go looking for them, and they'll end up being a waste of time. And if they do drop runes, then they could very well spend the time they spent marking, labeling, and dropping them around, out shopping. You may think that merchants would "have to" start going out and looking for "buy" vendors, but the simple fact is that every merchant running successful vendors already has a clientele that keeps his shop going, and has no need to go looking for more.



    There is no gap in the economy. Things in UO are set up just like in RL. If people need something, then they go to the store. Should Sears or Macy's start going around house to house to every person in the country to find out if there's something they may need so they can sell it to them? No, they simply offer what they offer in their stores, so there's one centralized place people can go to. Your way is unrealistic at best. No merchant is going to search all of Sosaria just to find out if someone wants to buy something. Insted they'll advertise via runes and/or chat, and let the people come to them.
     
  27. That's actually a really great idea. I can see it doubling the lag in Luna though lol.

    Every major vendor mall will now carry sets of two vendors for each of it's renters. One for selling, one for buying :mf_prop:
     
  28. I beg to differ on your arguement. The economy in no way reflects how users will or would potentially use a "buy" vendor. It could come in handy for players, especially within Luna, where people are always looking for something but can never find it. For instance, people who buy bulk items can set out a vendor (buying bulk [insert item here], catalog the item, set a price) and just let the vendor set. Anyone who happens to wander by and see that they're looking for that item could potentially be interested in selling it to the user by selling it to the vendor.

    I believe in theory it's a great idea, but I honestly don't believe it would be very practical. It would be too hard to catalog items and prevent scams from occuring that could leave players broke because they requested bulk runic kits and got tons of 1 use kits.
     
  29. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, I may well be wrong but personally, I think that the time to shop, unless very lucky or because one is seeking a highly available item, takes considerable more time than marking, labelling and dropping runes at a few banks.




    This is a computer game, not the real world and already a number of games similar to Ultima Online do offer a "buy" system along with a "sell" system so, it would not be anything so weird.

    Besides, as I said, it would not replace the current way of shopping but it would only complete it by offering another additional way of buying things along side with the current one.

    So, why oppose it when whomever will want to keep buying as now will still be able to but also all of those players who do not like the current way will be able to use the "Buy" vendors and get also happy ?

    When something like this can appeal to both different ways of buying and selling then it is something that more completes the game and make it a better game to play, I think.
     
  30. Popps finally we agree. Great idea.
     
  31. Because the time they'd waste on this nonsense could better be put toward making a shard wide vendor search system that would solve everyone's problems, including the one you're trying to solve with this, and would reach more players instead of only a few that would be wasting their time anyway.
     
  32. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Possibly, and not entirely necessarily, IMHO (Buy vendors can also have some good pluses to a global search engine...). But which of the 2 systems would require less work and so resources to be done ?

    A complex global search engine or Buy vendors ?

    If the work involved is the same then I might agree with you, perhaps a global search engine would be a more final solution although I am also convinced that Buy vendors have their strengths and pluses.

    But if Buy vendors require less work to be done well, then maybe they would be the "best bang for the buck" ?

    Also, not even a global search engine could address a couple of abilities which Buy vendors could.

    #1
    The ability for a player to actually post what they actually want.
    For example, say that a player needs an item hard to find. A particular rare.
    If this item is on no vendors, then even a global search engine would be of no help.

    Instead, on a Buy vendor the player could actually list that one item as wanted and perhaps a seller having it in a secure or bank box, not on a vendor, might decide to sell it.

    #2
    The ability for a buyer to decide the purchasing price and not have to buy something at a vendor's price.
    Having a global search function will only list more options but a buyer would still be unable to say at what price they want to buy.
    A Buy vendor, instead, could address this one issue, also.
     
  33. A shard wide vendor search system would help all players, not just a select few.




    Of course you are. God forbid anyone that disagrees with you have valid points that disprove whatever idiotic idea you may have.


    If the item isn't on any vendors, then there wouldn't be one for sale and the buyer would have to use alternate means. A "buy" vendor wouldn't help because merchants wouldn't be searching all of Sosaria to sell something when they could just put it on a vendor that would be listed in a shard wide search engine if they wanted to sell it.


    A buyer could contact the merchant that sells any particular item and negotiate price easier than sitting around waiting for someone to sell at whatever ridiculously low price they'd want to pay. A simple message on a bulletin board with an ICQ number, or even a mailbox type system tied to a vendor search engine would serve the purpose even better, especially since merchants wouldn't be out searching for those "buy" vendors anyway.
     
  34. LordDrago

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    Yes, the "broker" would be an NPC.

    Say for example I am searching for magical residue to train embuing. I, as a buyer, would go to the broker and input 10K magical residue for 2 million gold. Then, anyone with 10K magical residue, could access a menu on the broker to pull up embuign ingredients/magical residue, and see that I am serching for 10K worth. The seller player, thinks this is a pretty good price to sell his residue for (don't ask me if it really is, I do not know, nor, at the moment, care). The NPC broker then coordinates taking my 2 mill gold from my bankbox, and the 10K residue from the selling player and switches them. I got my residue and the seller has their 2 million. No scams, transfer worries, etc.
     
  35. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    That's one of the reasons I suggested it only be for items that are stackable & deedable, in my reply. That way, it will allow a crafter or retailer to ask for raw materials, to either then resell or to use in crafting, etc.

    Raw materials would be the hardest thing to try to scam with, because of their base nature.
     
  36. Derium of ls

    Derium of ls Slightly Crazed
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    back when this game had the numbers to support it, I would have LOVED buy vendors, but as it sits for now. I would be 100% against that idea, and even be fore the idea of destroying luna. we NEED every chance we can get to force people to interact now, we are way too low on numbers.

    for a while now I've wanted to remake my vendor tower, but what's the point? there is luna. /rant
     
  37. Fink

    Fink Guest

    The "so what" is they enjoy running a shop, not what you're suggesting. You seem to want everyone else to "evolve" around your needs.

    There's nothing stopping the people you call "ordinary" from doing that now.

    Thanks, I am familiar with supply and demand. I'm reasonably sure "buy" vendors would work just as much as "sell" vendors, which is to say not very well. People are in essence lazy; you can't code that out. This proposal seems to transfer laziness from one person to the next. You're asking people who can't be bothered to stock a sell vendor of their own to go to the bother of checking your buy vendor because you can't be bothered to shop.

    While I've yet to determine what part of the game you consider fun, I do acknowledge I don't have much time to play either. This is why I keep a few runebooks full of decent shop locations. As I said it only takes a little initial set-up and you hardly ever need browse again.
     
  38. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Thank you Fink, once again :)
    :)
     
  39. Restroom Cowboy

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    Lol...you do realize he is nothing but a troll who is "fishing the waters" right? perhaps if you had some sensibility you might have figured it out by now that poops has absolutely no interest in relevance to the threads he posts. again, enjoy being the bait..."fish".
     
  40. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Yes, we have it here. Simply go to 'user cp' and look down the left hand menu for 'edit ignore list'.

    Some people I would strenuously advise to make more use of the facility.
     
  41. Hey now, I took a deep breath before I posted.....:sad3::gun::stretcher:
     
  42. Guido_LS

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    I can only speak to LS, but other than Luna, there is exactly ONE continually well stocked vendor shop with a selection of anything more than the basics. There are 2-3 others that are mostly highly specialized, and one that exists in a player run town that doesn't sell much more than basic monster loot. I still have 12 runebooks from days gone by, all filled with the very best vendors that LS had to offer. I'll give you 3 guesses of just how many of those 192 runes are still good... anything more than a handful of fingers is wrong.

    There is a reason for this, and it isn't player population. No, there's nothing from stopping somebody from setting up their own vendor, but unlike those in Luna, they have to set up and drop runes on a continual basis - and I have personally seen people picking up all the runes that have been dropped - and you can't convince me of any good reason that one person would pick up 6-10 of the SAME rune, except to re-mark them. Yes, it's on the ground, and they are well within their rights to do so, but...

    So don't play the lazy card. It's not about lazy - it's about giving up, since there is no chance at offering any real chance at competition. And no, paying someone anywhere from 35k to 100k per week for a rental contract is NOT a valid option.

    Also, what you are failing to take into account with a buyer option is, you set what you are willing to pay - if someone decides to sell at that price, good deal - if not, oh well. But even you have to admit that 1.5million for 60k iron ore is a joke. And that's just one example.
     
  43. Flutter

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    Less time complaining more time playing.
     
  44. Restroom Cowboy

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    yay Flutter! :cheerleader:
     
  45. popps

    popps Always Present
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    This..............

    And This...........


    And this also...........

    They find myself in agreement and show to me the need for a change in how player vending happens in Ultima Online.

    There is time for some serious changes, IMHO, at player vending in this game.
     
  46. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I prefer another option which involves playing but also, at the same one time, complain about whatever changes may be needed or wished to make the game better so that the playing can be more enjoyable.........

    and two more which I also like a whole lot are

     
  47. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    "I disagree with what you said"
    ~ G. Bob
    Community Manager
    NetDevil
     
  48. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Once a thread has descended into a quote war it has ceased to serve any useful purpose.
     
  49. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    nope...sure doesnt. i think it needs some coding injected into it with some third party software...that should bring it back to life
     
  50. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak:

    If the thread's finished I'll lock it. Otherwise let's get it back on topic.