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Please fix this - BUG URGENT

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Scoobs, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. Scoobs

    Scoobs Guest

    This last shot looting on the blackrock gollums is getting really crazy. There is a guy who runs around Magencia waiting for the golums to drop to 8% then word of deaths them for the armor piece. He has done this 3 times now and it is very frustrating. They take crazy time to kill which makes it worse.
     
  2. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Wait 2 weeks and he'll have all the pieces he cares to get.

    Sorry but this really is the answer. You won't get anything more from our guys.
     
  3. Scoobs

    Scoobs Guest

    Just seems odd that they would implement a game wide event with such a fundamental flaw. Surely they will fix it?

    It explains why no one is bothering to do the spawn.
     
  4. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    I feel for everyone this happens to, i occasionaly solo these things but it is annoying if it happens.

    Im not sure why they cant do a %based looting.

    If 4 people are hitting it they need 25% damage to gain looting rights.

    If one person doesn 92% (as per example) damage and one does 8% then the 8 shouldnt qualify for looting rights.

    I would say that there would need to be a 60/40 split minimum on 2man looting so that one person can out damage the other but the second would need to be constantly doing damage.

    Seems simple to me.
     
  5. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    Mean solution:
    Drop aggro, let golem chase him around, he cant cast wod then. Maybe you get lucky and it gets him killed.
    Easiest way to do this is to go to peace mode when you are stunned.

    It also helps dragging the golem to a place away from main traffic and fight him there. Less unwanted visitors.
     
  6. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Not really odd. I would bet you can count on one hand the number of BioMythic employees that play UO. This is clearly evident in almost everything they do.

    Looting is only 1 reason people aren't doing the spawn. The other is that some don't think it's worth it for the armor pieces.
     
  7. Scoobs

    Scoobs Guest

    This guy runs around magencia until the gollum is at 10%. He casts energy vortex to stall it and wod's it. Tried the invis but he managed to survive.
     
  8. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    Do your Gollum Farming in FEL.... Or Beat him @ his own game and get on a WoD Character. That's the problem with Tram is that there's no appropriate recourse for people like this.
     
  9. Scoobs

    Scoobs Guest

    Ha, I would last about 2 minutes in Fel with my terribly mediocre characters. I won't stoop to griefing other players.

    Perhaps it can JUST BE FIXED!
     
  10. soze

    soze Seasoned Veteran
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    it does suck that there are players like this...probably some 13 year old who thinks it's cute...or worse, some 25+ year old who thinks it cute to act like a 13 year old.

    I would think a damage % deal would fix this pretty much immediately. This will give this jerk-off something else to go do.

    Kind of surprised this wasnt thought through before the event....hopefully the Devs will listen.
     
  11. soze

    soze Seasoned Veteran
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    I really think this could be a huge issue for our game....we need people who play to be involvled in designing and implementation...

    i hope you're wrong about the number who play
     
  12. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    Or, that actually work on the game nowadays. :stir:
     
  13. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    I hear ya. Unfortunately, its just another form of greifing. :( It seems like everytime we have monsters with special drops this kind of stuff happens. My sister and her long time friends dubbed it "IGottaGetTheItemAssholeitus" back during the first ToT event.

    This isn't the first time a particular skill has been used/exploited to get the special item. Those of ya'll that were around for the very first ToT event will remember the EV overload. That is why they implemented EVs taking controls slots, because a few unsavory types would park it in the Fan Dancer's Dojo and cast tons of EVs. As I recall it, it was so bad that you would lock up and even sometimes client crash upon entering the Dojo.

    Stuff like this could be avoided if they actually had quailty control. Since they don't we have to find the perverbial holes in the boat. Then they "fix" the boat when its half sunk and we are screaming bloody murder while going down with the ship.

    I'm just sayin, is all.
     
  14. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Heh on Chesapeake some noob and his friend just tried to WOD one I had gotten down 3/4ths by my self but I still got the piece ;P. Now that I fooled around with my char I do up to 240 damage criticals, woot. But like I said in an earlier thread, these should be like light daemons, three drops per highest attackers. Would make it more fun.
     
  15. Vandetta

    Vandetta Guest

    easy answer. do them in fel and kill him when he does it. atleast thats what i would do.

    hugs
     
  16. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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  17. Boogy

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    Have you tried changing your tactics? Your inability to adapt is not a bug, more like a personality flaw.

    I use the same strategy that I always have, which is doing the maximum damage that I can inflict on my target. It works for me, I get the pieces more often than these "greifers"
     
  18. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    Hmm... wonder if this falls under the ToS "property of EA" clause?

    What I'm getting at, is that given "items" belong to EA Games, not to the players, then we can assume that the "monsters" running around fall under the same category. They're all pixels.

    Rude, impolite, annoying... sure. "Griefing", most certainly... just another way of doing something without any care or thought for fellow players, that causes annoyance.

    Thing is, they're just as entitled to whack any critters, anywhere, no matter who else is hitting it. Unless they're verbally abusing you or using a proven bug or exploit to gain an advantage. Even then you'd have a hard time getting any joy from GM's. Not like you could count on them surreptitiously looking over what's going on these days, is it? That's something that I do remember GM's doing, when UO had their own dedicated GM's that is...

    Not nice after you've spent a lot of time working towards something I guess, but that's the way things are - and have been for some time. The looting system and percentages should be looked at for sure. The only way to prevent this sort of thing happening, would be to make it pointless to try in the first place.

    Given this continued importance placed on the latest item/pixel crack, then it would seem fairer to me in such an event based scenario, that there's a points system instead. What I mean by that, is something similar to the loyalty points system at the start of Ter Mur, when people were trying to get the points to place a house.

    When they switch on an event that's part of a story arc, those fighting the critters particular to that event, accumulate points based on their participation. The hit points damage they inflict upon the "enemy" creatures are calculated into points. Every time they reach a certain number of points, they get an item drop in their pack.

    This way, it doesn't matter who kills a critter, or deals the final blow. It's the level of participation in actually fighting the critters and dealing damage that matters... and accumulates.
     
  19. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
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    I was just wondering how to do these while putting in a minimal effort. THanks for the tip!

    * hurries to stone over spell weaving *
     
  20. Fresley

    Fresley Journeyman
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    Loot faster.
     
  21. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    lol, what


    and it isn't damage based at all, anyone that WoDs it enough for looting rights can get the armor piece. It's happening on GL too.
     
  22. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
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    Letting the golem kill the guy who comes in last minute doesn't stop him from getting the item. We've had someone come in and cast a rising colossus on our golem, he got too close and it killed him, we didn't rez him and finished off the golem, but he still got the epiphany piece in his instance of the loot. Our party did 90% or more of the damage and still lost the reward.
     
  23. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    No way, didnt you read, grifers only plays in Fel.
    There's definitely zero nada null whatsoever anyone playing in tram would do something like this... Especially in tram grifers has this little thing called "Player God mode".

    No wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy... are you saying you just got grifed by a god mode player at the /pvpoff land?
     
  24. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Looting right is gained by dealing more than 1/16 of the monster's total HP.
    If the monster has 16,000hp all you have to do is deal over 1000 damage total to gain looting right. Assume Blackrock Golem has a wooping total hp of 50,000hp all you really need to do is 3,125 damage to get your piece of pie.

    It's the most powerful grief in the entire game of UO. He gets his loot with your work, you can bring in 50 people and stand around him and "look at him funny" and theirs still nothing you can do with him. Oh you have have your zerg squad and lure monsters on him and get yourself banned. You can trash talk him and get yourself banned. Or you can beg him and QQ over and over and pay him millions of gold then MAYBE he will stop.

    Sorry dude you are stuck with godmode griefrs. You can do it to others too tho you know since you have that godmode grief mode available to you too.

    And sorry, its not cheating, it's how trammie land works. :( Working as intended.
     
  25. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    If 4 people are hitting it they need 25% damage to gain looting rights.

    Its not logical:
    29% + 24% + 24% + 23% = 100% -> Only one player gets the entire loot (or the special loot every time) despite the close damage percentages.

    May I suggest:

    % damage dealt = % chance to get the special loot the creature drops
     
  26. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    or, even better, they can implement this system:

    Five on Friday - October 5, 2007 - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia

    This requires the item set piece to drop on backpack, every time, with the chance of getting it calculated by the above system. I think % of damage = % chance to get the special item is less complicated, but if the above system worked before without any complaints, then it might worth a try.
     
  27. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Lol, what? Do you know how the loot system works? Or when was the last time you played?
     
  28. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    I actually find this (edit - I mean "this" as in the current loot system) loot system more balanced than restricting the drop to the highest damagers. Because once someone with an optimized dps build steps in, everyone else won't have a chance at the special item.

    At least now, the folks without optimized gear have a chance. While the highest damagers have a bigger chance (larger loot instance = more of the loot = more chances of one of the items being the special item).

    I know it sucks to have done most of the fighting for the past 15 mins only to have someone WOD the thing and get a chance of the loot. It's hard to understand what I am saying if you were at the losing end. But you have to think what would happen if you yourself are outgeared by someone else.

    And when that happens, that person will always get the loot, leaving everyone else with nothing.
     
  29. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    I suspect boss mobs can give instances up to 1/32.


    What I write below is not aimed at WU, but just continuing with my train of thought on this.

    Most folks just cry that "It's not fair" when they get the short end of the bargain, but they only see it from that one single point of view without considering other players. Then insist that the devs should fix this, that they are stupid, that they did not consider the impact, that it's all their fault.

    But for most cases that's not true. The devs have a macro view of the game. They need to consider the impact to each and every type of player, template, playstyles etc. It's the players who mostly have a more micro view of the game, who sees only what they experienced themselves.

    Yes, the devs are (edit I left out the "not") not perfect and there are times where they are wrong or miss something, but generally, I have noticed that they do put great consideration into the things they implement.
     
  30. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    Solution is... no more monsters with 100k hit points. They arent hard hard to kill, just boring.

    The golems should have 5k hit points and 1/5, 1/7 or 1/10 chance to drop the special item. That way the golems are killed very fast and no one has the time to cast 1-2 WOD when its readlined.
     
  31. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    Yes, %chance to get an item = % damage dealt is not a good solution for the players who cant deal much damage to these golems. I think you also mean that the effort spent by the players who are at both ends of the dps is pretty much the same, otherwise it means that the least effort is equal to the most effort spent, which is wrong in so many ways.

    However, the issue we're discussing is not restricted to players who deal the highest damage, it is valid for all players who spend the most effort regardless of their template or suit: As a player with a basic suit, you spend an hour to kill a golem. All of a sudden, a player with a good suit comes, spends 2 minutes to give enough damage to loot the golem and gets the item.

    My question is, do you agree that the above situation is an example of using this looting system in a selfish and unfair way?
     
  32. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Amen. Complete dev team fail.

    This is one of the worst events I can ever remember in UO. This game is not getting better - it has fallen off a cliff.

    Bring Draconi back...
     
  33. Scoobs

    Scoobs Guest

    THere also seems to be a mechanic where the gollum's damage / life is scaled to the number of peeps attacking it. I have just killed one with 6 other people and it took longer than I could take it down with just one other person. It seemed odd at the time.

    Agree thst they should have 10k hp's max. Would remove this problem.
     
  34. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    Great solution.
     
  35. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Technically, the first guy with basic gear should be able to do enough damage in an hour to guarantee looting rights. As long as he has looting rights, he has a chance to have the special item drop in his instance. If he has done more damage than the 2 min uber suited guy, he would still have a better chance.

    An analogy would be like buying the weekly lottery. Guy 1 spends 10 bucks a day queuing up to buy tickets. That 10 bucks a day is his daily limit. He has the potential to spend more as time passes. He has done this for the past 7 days.

    Guy 2 only managed to get into the action on the last day. But he puts in 70 bucks in that 1 day.

    Guy 3 also caught wind of the lottery on the 7th day. But he is poor and has only 10 bucks to buy the tickets.

    Each person has a chance to win the jackpot. Guy 1 and guy 2 has the same chance. Guy 3 has the least chance. But there's still a chance. And it's as fair as the situation allows.


    What seems to be the problem now is that, if any of the other 2 won the lottery, guy 1 is unhappy. He calls it unfair because he has spent the most time queuing up to buying tickets. But these 2 jokers rushed in at the last minute and snatched the prize from him. Guy 1 feels that he has been wronged and the authorities must fix it.


    Now, guy 2, he feels that he spent 70 bucks, just like the the first guy. He feels he should get the same chance at the jackpot. The first guy having started buying 7 days ago should not have any bearing on the chances of getting the jackpot. Even more important, being there first should not give guy 1 a monopoly on the jackpot, and should not block out other people from winning the jackpot.


    Now guy 3, he spent the least, and have the least chance on getting the jackpot. But he still has a chance. The lottery jackpot doesn't "belong" to who was there first. Nor does it belong to the person who spends the most money.

    I hope you are beginning to understand now. There is actually no unfairness. Guy 1 only perceived it that way because he spent the most time and seemingly worked the hardest. However, the system itself is as fair as it can get in this situation.

    I know it's frustrating to be robbed of the jackpot by some punk that just came into town, but without a doom arty point system, this is as fair as it goes. Plus, at other times, you could very well be that punk that just rolled into town. How would you like to be told, "we're sorry, because you are new, no matter how much you spend, we won't give you a chance at the jackpot, we've reserved it for the first person that bought a ticket".
     
  36. Fresley

    Fresley Journeyman
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    I stand corrected.

    I'm a casual player that takes breaks for long periods of time. I had no idea that loot was "instanced" or that this apparently old solution to looting rights is not sufficient for the current perceived inadequacies.
     
  37. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    I really doubt anyone will have a better chance than the other when the evil old rng is involved.

    A better analogy is: all 10 tickets needs to be bought for the lottery to be drawn, guy 1 buys 9 of them. Seeing all 9 tickets are already bought, guy 2 rushes to buy the last ticket so that he has the same chance to get the prize since this weird loterry draws names of the people who bought at least a ticket instead of ticket numbers :).
     
  38. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Top three (three drops or heck just one drop) would make it so a group could get them done and a WOD nerd wouldn't be able to hop out at the last minute to get the prize. Three-quarters DPS would most likely trump end-game WOD. Top three might suck at primetime, but the way things are working, guilds and small groups are just taking two-to-five people and luring them off, hehe. I hardly ever see a large, unaffiliated group, tanking them.

    I don't know if doing more damage in this situation gives you a better chance at a special drop, but it is a corpse drop, hm. In my opinion I think it's divided by X attackers on loot list = % chance to get arty/drop. Not sure. Be a good DEV question.

    It's actually supposed to be exactly 1/16th of the top damager, or more. If a Golem has 50k, and the top attacker gets the first hit, then a second person should have to do at least 3,625. I'm not really sure if that is true, but also, I don't recall reading the documentation that said they have 50k hp, either.

    Each one has different resists. They are weak to cold, then energy. Resists will fluctuate, per golem, which will make kill times vary. There's also the RNG chance for a bombard toss back/stun, which effects burst DPS.
     
  39. Llams Anit

    Llams Anit Guest

    Good thing "they" don't come to you for information

    Just saying
     
  40. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    can ea hire war ultima to replace cal?

    i think your spot on with many of your insights, backed up by math where the case merits. well done.


    i heard the same complaining when the bane dragon came out. now some months later he still happily resides in the abyss and never farmed. i'm sure the blackrock golums will be around long enough for all to get what they want.
     
  41. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Ahh, I understand some of the hate now. For loot drops, it doesn't work that way as far as I know.

    From observation, as long as I did most of the damage, mostly, the special drop appears in my instance.

    I suspect during instanced drops, all the items are split into 16 piles (or a lesser number depending on the percentage of damage done by the lowest damager). And each pile is then randomly assigned to players based on what percentage of total damage they did to the mob.

    So the person that did just enough of the total damage to qualify for looting rights (1/16th of top damager) gets only 1 of these "piles". The person that did the remaining damage gets the rest of the 15 piles.

    Hence, more "piles" equals higher chances of the special drop in one of these "piles".

    If you have done any peerless in a group before, and don't party up, or drop party just before the peerless is killed, you will have an idea of what I mean.
     
  42. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    This is not how it works...
    Easiest way is look at the gold amount in difference instances.

    Golems drops around 2000 gp.
    Have your main char to damage BR Golem to 1/4 lefe or to the last 20% hp left.

    Use your 2nd character to finish the last 20%, *most of the time* the gold will be divided half and half even tho your 1st char did 80% of the damage.

    In some cases, its possible to have the top damager to get more share but believe me it will NOT be proportional to your damage done.

    I then did another test and used my thrower to redline (its about last 10%) a blackrock golem and used by myst mage to finish the last 10%, and my myst mage was able to get 1/3 of the gold amount which is 6xx gp while my thrower who initially did 90% of the damage only receiving 12xx gp.

    Yes, it is scaled, but no the scaling table is very bad and is strongly in favorate of the light damager. Not to disagree, the top damage will "generally" have better chance for the loot but again even if you are dealing 500% more damage than the other guy who did at least 16% damage to secure looting right, you will NOT have 500% better chance of getting the drop.

    Same case can be found in champ spawn ps drop as well. My guildie will be playing exactly same template as me, and he will hit the coon before I get there, and I will go in when coon had 1/3 left while my guildie continues to attack the coon, and when it drops I get 3 ps almost every single time( which is 50% of the possible total p/s drop). But then again in some rare occasion I went in too late and start hitting the coon on the last 10% hp, where I will only get 2 ps (25%) while he gets 4(75%) (even tho he has dealt 900% more damage than me).


    And edit:
    When I use 2 account and attack the same golem (usually my thrower will out damage my myst RC spammer by 3 to 4x) my myst guy has gotten more drop than my thrower and the gold is being split 50-50 almost all the time. (about 9 out of 10 times).

    You are on the right track where loots are instanced, but you are not correct by saying chance of getting a drop is directly-proportional to the total damage you've done compare to others. It IS proportional but then again the proportion is very very biased towards the low damagers and often putting them on equal ground as the top damager (see my example) you can try it, the result can be easily reproduced.
     
  43. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    For the loot instance, I believe one reason for that is that the loot is split into than 16 instances depending on the situation (eg percentage of total damage the lowest damager did measured against top damager).

    Discrepancies due to rounding do seem to go to the lowest damager.

    But the 20% damager receiving 50% of the loot is intriguing. I'll test if further and report my findings.
     
  44. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    I meant "Discrepancies due to rounding do seem to go in favor of the lowest damager."
     
  45. Scoobs

    Scoobs Guest

    Gents

    FYI, I just spoke to one of the guys who spawn jumps. Using WOD on the last 8% of the blackrock hp's, timed right, generated an 80% drop rate. I can certainly vouch this from my experience. It seems pretty clear to me that no matter how the loot rate works, the special drop is not working on a shared basis. So long as you get looting rights, it seems that the last strike gets the piece.
     
  46. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Looks like this thread is going in circles.

    I don't think it's last hit. I think it's simply chance / X, in which X is amount on the loot list. But since it is a corpse drop, I'm not sure about my theory. Normal pop arties are chance / X. Some noob did WOD on a golem I was soloing, the WOD killed it, and I still got piece. I also lured the golem on the WODer while it was hack-fast, and the WODer ran two screens away. It was funny.

    My top three things in pvm: people who think they will do more damage in pvm by casting poison fields and fire fields, people who use invis as soon as anything attacks them, then fizzle until they die or finally decide to run two screens away, and people who create a template entirely dedicated to WOD, and as a result, don't use wrestling or even a mage wep, so they get hit 100% of time and faceplant if a mongbat touches them.