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please fix vampires/ninjas

Discussion in 'UHall' started by shadowking, May 29, 2008.

  1. shadowking

    shadowking Guest

    vampires need the leech effect based on there ss! maybe increase the total to 30% at 120 ss on a scale. same thing with ninjas the poison efeect from there forms frog nd snake should inflct poison based on there poisoning skil. the cu for talasm shold heal and cure poisons based on there anatomy+healing skills. please look into this it makes sence to me.
     
  2. shadowking

    shadowking Guest

    any one else have any thoughts on this? can we vote on this?
     
  3. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    This would be a good change and should apply to all the necro forms.

    Of course all the sampires will come in here and cry up a storm since they would no longer be able to exploit the loophole of using items to cast vampric embrace. For that reason alone I would definately support this change.

    The problem I see with this change would be someone with 80 poison inflicting LP on every hit. That seems like it would be way to strong.

    On this subject though I think the ninja darts and shirykens (sp?) need to be fixed so you can only inflict poison based on your poison level, not the level of poison applied to the item

    It would all depend on the calculations. If someone has high dex and is already healing every 4 secs, adding even more healing on top of that might become a problem. Although the one balancing factor might be that being in that form makes you move slower than dirt.
     
  4. envinyatar

    envinyatar Guest

    As much as I don't want to agree with this (mainly because I was thinking of adding necro to my fencer for this feature), I have to say that it does make sense and adds a purpose to a pretty meaningless skill (does anyone really use spirit speak?).
     
  5. Veganite

    Veganite Guest

    I vote NO
     
  6. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    They already did it with Wraith form, requiring Spirit Speak or else your mana leeching is abysmal. I guess the PVP focus group last year failed to bring this to the attention of the developers. Players are able to slap on a bunch of Necromancy items and cast Vampiric Embrace with only 30 skill. It goes like this:

    +15 Ring
    +15 Bracelet
    +20 Midnight Bracers (arms)
    +10 Ossian Grimoire (spellbook)
    +5 Bloodwood Spirit (talisman)
    +10 Mask of Travesty (helmet)
     
  7. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Yep, you're exactly right. Most players don't have the Mask of Travesty so they go with 35 real skill. But you could have as little as 25 real skill points and still take advantage of the vampric bonuses.
     
  8. "I guess the PVP focus group"

    So once again PvP gets to F**K up PvM.

    Yeah, let's take the input from a bunch of players that represent the minority on a playstyle they care nothing about but includes the majority, who had no input on it themselves.

    Give me a good reason WHY this needs to change from a PvM perspective and nerf the holy hell out of meleers yet again, or is it once again the tamers and mage hybrids don't like meleers being able to do some of the same things they can?
     
  9. shadowking

    shadowking Guest

    the poisoning skill would be straight across 80-100 equals deadly poison only no lethal. the weakness to this isthey cant use any othre specials. and they have to hit there enemy to inflict poison to begin with. as it is you can poison your enemy with infectous strike which cost me 5 mana. andi can use other specials or even be mounted.
     
  10. shadowking

    shadowking Guest

    thr horrific beast should be the same on the hp regen, raise it some then scall it based on ss. after all who really uses that form? melees dontthey use vamp or wraith. horrific beast is really useless. as it is. and most casters have magic healing spells so no need for that form.
     
  11. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    Yeah dude, this is such a wicked pvp template!

    Almost as wicked as wither! Dudeeeeeeeeeeee!



    @ OP, Spellcheck = friend.
     
  12. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'm gonna have to agree with this idea...... Most other skills are based off of another or are increased by another.... like the nerf with Death Strike being paired with tracking and requiring you to be in close quarters... (ie not using a ranged weapon) I'm all for this change.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Why? It's two different skills, one for weapon skill and one for the actual Necro skill. If someone wants to use both it's the way the game was intended.

    Umm ... just no. People should not have to have the poisoning skill for that. That idea just made me lol irl.


    No it shouldn't. The whole point of the talisman is to give those abilities regardless of the type of character used. It totally negates the entire point of the talisman to do as your suggesting. Use your head.

    Perhaps instead of trying to change everyone else you change your own template.
     
  14. Limlight

    Limlight Guest

    1. The holiday items dont give enough points.

    2. Connor. The Sampire template is broken and needs to be fixed. You are crying and saying it should stay as is. Hear me now. They never intended for a template to exist that can solo a peerless by himself. Its utterly ridiculous that someone can solo Paroxy and Dread Horn.
     
  15. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    Most of those other skills were changed because they WERE overpowered & needed maybe.

    All everyone wants to do is take out the variety and uniqueness in uo nowadays. I hope everyone is happy when we are all playing just another one sided game like wow template wise! I mean gawd!!!!!! I can't wait! :)

    Last I checked frog form ninjas are not a problem.
    Sampires (Not vampires as OP suggested.... LOL) are not a problem! (But wait, someone is jealous cause someone else soloed a Dreadhorn?! And it should take like 20 randoms from luna!!!!)
     
  16. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    So is it rediculous that I can solo lady mel on my tamer?

    Is it also rediculous that I can solo shimmering on my bard?


    Add tamers & bards to the nerf list because they are able to solo peerless!

    Also my necro/dexy can solo doom, add him to the list (Even though he is played correctly).
     
  17. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    First of all you don't think that 25% of subscribers who play UO only to PVP don't deserve to get their game balanced? Second, there were some PvMers in the focus group also so if they messed up your game then go blame them.

    Third, this isn't just a PVP or PVM issue, it is about balance. Vampiric Embrace has a high skill requirement because it is so powerful. Players are using skill items to completely bypass that and casting it before they go into battle. This is not how it is intended to be used at all. Either they need to make it so it costs 99 real necromancy skill to cast or tie it to Spirit Speak. Bringing Spirit Speak into the equation is completely reasonable since Necromancers are supposed to have it anyway.
     
  18. Dexdash

    Dexdash Guest

    having the poisoning skill to poison seems like a stupid idea to you? i think thats funny because i just soned my poisoning for a skill that poisons alows me to change int forms that help me get away when dismounted and heal me up and gives me better attacks. all that for the same skills i had on poison. all i gave up was 1 lvl of poison. think it through.
     
  19. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    Tamers could also solo dread before Greater dragons too...
     
  20. "First of all you don't think that 25% of subscribers who play UO only to PVP don't deserve to get their game balanced?"

    I never said they didn't, so don't put words in my mouth so to speak.


    That said, PvP balance and PvM balance are 2 different things and can't be treated as if they are the same.


    "Second, there were some PvMers in the focus group also so if they messed up your game then go blame them."

    I'll blame them and the PvP'rs that were in the group. I know that the PvP'rs didn't refrain from commenting when it came to things that would affect PvM, and anyone that says they did is a liar.


    "Third, this isn't just a PVP or PVM issue, it is about balance."

    There is not one thing unbalanced about it in PvM. The only class that a change like this would affect is meleers, and the only thing it does for them is put them into the same level of high end PvM that tamers and mage hybrids have enjoyed for years now.


    "Players are using skill items"

    My, my, my. Using +Skill items to, well.....+Skill. Wow, the world is gonna end tomorrow.

    That's kind of along the same lines as Tamers using +Skill items to obtain more stable slots, or to get pets to bond, or to tame pets, all they don't really have the skill for, yet still retain the abilities once those jewels are taken off.

    Or Necro/Mages that only have 80 Necro (we all know why don't we?) yet use +Skill items to get them up skill wise to be able to cast the same spell.

    Oh wait...that's right....it's OK for Mages and Tamers to do all that, but heaven forbid a meleer do it.

    The whole thing stinks of hypocrisy, and I still haven't seen a GOOD reason other than some's very biased opinions on the matter.


    "This is not how it is intended to be used at all."

    Now see, that ^ is an opinion. We were given all of these +Skill items to use, yet when they get used by a "certain class" certain "other classes" start calling foul.

    Yep, sheer hypocrisy.
     
  21. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    Crap we REALLY need to nerf tamers too!
     
  22. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    You think it through JCtheComplainer....
    You are suggesting negating the whole point of the various forms.
    You stoned your poisoning skill and replaced it with Ninjitsu. You did what we've been doing in this game for years. You adapted.
    In another 6 months we will adapt again.
    It seems like you get mad about any template that is able to kill you.
    Stop trying to nerf everyone else and just play UO and deal with it when you get killed by another template just like the rest of us do.
     
  23. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    They should also "fix" it so tamers cannot use jewerly to bond thier pets, without the "real" taming skill right?
     
  24. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Umm...Yes.

    It increases the effectiveness of most Necro sells. It's like Eval Inteligence is for mage spells.

    -Galen's player
     
  25. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    That was your choice.

    Too bad you still cant use special moves, cast spells, and use the rest of your ninjitsu abilities while in form!

    I would love to see you frog form poison me, I would simply WALK away on my mount.
     
  26. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    The life leech of vampric form is worthless to a REAL necromancer. Why? Because one pig iron, almost insta cast of a curse weapon is far more superiour.

    There is no point in making it go off of spirit speak... Maybe the poison resistance. I could understand.
     
  27. Limlight

    Limlight Guest

    Bottom line is this:

    When you tame a Greater Dragon.

    Can you take off the skill and then command it?

    Or do you need to keep the skill?

    lol

    I think you know the answer and its the same as the Vampire Form.
    I dont mind the template at all if you can keep your skill at 99 or above. But I also think you should need SS for maximum effeiency. I wouldnt mind a small bump in Vampire Form. But it should get better with more SS.


    If my tamer comparison doesnt work for you then you guys are hopeless.

    By the way. soloing a Dread Horn with a regular Dragon deserves commending. Doing it with a Greater is easy and is another example of why Greaters were a ******** idea. Anything that can kill another player in 1 second is obviously over-powered and anyone that denies that is either:
    A. kidding themselves
    B. a Tamer and doesnt want to lose their "God mode"
    C. an Idiot

    ALL KILL for a 60 Physical Damage hit at the same time as a Breath attack of 80 damage FTW!
    "But Lim...140 damage in 1 second is not over-powered!"
     
  28. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Absolutely. Also if you don't have the skill required the pet should become unbonded (after a warning of course). That would help balance those Greater Dragons because not many people have the 106.8 or whatever Animal Taming is needed to bond them.
     
  29. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    I was told you can just set the greater to "guard" and then it won't do a skill check. Loophole?

    Depressing nerf talk.... *mumbles*
     
  30. "If my tamer comparison doesnt work for you then you"

    When you tame a greater dragon, if you don't have the skill without jewels can you still tame it?

    When you try to put it in the stables that are full, can you put it in the stable after you put on the +skill jewels and have it stay there when you take them off?

    When you go to bond with it, if you have the jewels on will it bond and will it stay that way after you take them off?

    Sorry, but that doesn't work.
     
  31. shadowking

    shadowking Guest

    well then we should switch back the wraith for dependancy on ss too then?
    i dont think, the jewels should be taken away just base the leech effect on ss is all. so sure ur a vampire with no ss then lets say yuo get a 5% leech, at 120 ss you get 30%. kind of like a bonus really. after all necro and ss go hand in hand. witrh a 120 necro/ss some spells are great damage wise casting ability, but the vampire horiffic beast dont reall do anything unless your a melee fighter. so why would a necromance invewst 100 in eigher skill? they wont. so basicaly a sampire gets the full benifits of a reall 100 necro. with minimal skill. maybe base the leech off the actuall necro skill at the moment.sure you can use items to get to 100 to cast vamp. but say u take off all ur items then ur back down to 35 necro then you should only leech 35% of the original 20% leech. that would sound fair too?
     
  32. "so basicaly a sampire gets the full benifits of a reall 100 necro. with minimal skill"

    No, they don't. They get the benefit of ONE spell.
     
  33. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah, but that one spell is the best Necromancy has to offer. In fact it has the highest minimum casting requirement in the game. You should not be able to cast it with only 25 Necromancy, a mere 25% of the total skill necessary.
     
  34. The_Dude_

    The_Dude_ Journeyman
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    I havet tried this but cant u just use the taming skill jewels to say all kill then take them off and use other equip? With the recent changes you only really have to say the command once..

    I have a sampire as this post is about yes i solo dread horn with him. I can just as easily solo it with my pathetic greater dragon as well. If you want to nerf vampire form thats fine as long as you make people have to have the real skill in anything to be able to do anything. I want to see all the pvp tamers who just bought the advanced token go out there and work there taming up to the lvl needed to control there greater or there cu. If you do that ill gladly let you nerf my sampire. As i have 120 taming and would love to see what the real amount of tamers is. Not pretenders with + skill jewels.

    Until then stop your damn whining and deal with it or build one. You all think its the character the suit matters as well as tactics. Ive watched several people with my exact same template die over and over and over in dreadhorn and finally give up after taking 30+ minutes. While i can do them in under 10 solo. It has more to do with equipment then skills. Anyone can build my template but as its apparent from the ppl ive seen many fail at its purpose.


    So if you want to nerf + skill jewelry im all for it im tired of getting rings/brace with crappy mods because they are full of useless skills on them instead of other useless mods.
     
  35. "Yeah, but that one spell is the best Necromancy has to offer."

    Oh, and with all the complaining I hear about Wither, and the fact that a Necro solos so much, including Vanguards & most of the levels of champ spawns, along with choke points and such, with that ONE spell, you could have fooled me.

    Or all the complaints about Evil Omen when combined with certain Magery spells....

    That spell is the best for a MELEER, but certainly not the best for other classes that use the skill.
     
  36. I disagree.
    Vamp form should be left alone unless at the same time they adjust all the other skills in the game that can be used that way. Like tamers getting free stable slots from items and mages without eval. As I don't want that all of them should be left alone.

    Ninjitsu should also be left alone. Ninja can already use higher level poisons with darts and shurikens.

    I don't understand what your saying about Cu form as I've never used it, I was under the impression it already only worked if you had healing/anat.
     
  37. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    That ONE is the bread and butter of a meleer takes on peerless bosses of choice. Sampire without exploiting the vamp form well die trying to solo peerless, and put in 35 skill points in necro and they have the easy mode turned on... I wonder why.:lame:
     
  38. So tell me why it is that Tamers and Mage hybrids should be able to solo all of these and even more, and meleers shouldn't?
     
  39. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    The Dude is right.
    And get rid of soulstones while you're at it?? omg
    Why can't we be creative with our characters?? Isn't that what makes UO so ENTICING?
    Get off the nerf train.
    Should I stop saving money for a Sampire necro-gear? Let me know before I waste my time only to get nerfed.
    Evasion....nerfed
    Lightning strike... nerfed
    bokuto nerve strike.... nerfed
    honor in pvp.... nerfed (alright, understandable)
    It's just not funny.
     
  40. kinney42

    kinney42 Seasoned Veteran
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    I disagree, Curse Weapon is better than vampire form. Lets do the math here...........
    vamp form you leech 20%
    Curse weapon you leech 50%
    2 and a half times better!!!

    Vamp is nice. I like it. I use it on my pally but my macer uses wraith form and curse weapon and puts my pally to shame. TO SHAME!
     
  41. Limlight

    Limlight Guest

    Yes, but if you take off the jewels...you cant command your newly tamed pet and if you try to command it too much when you dont have the correct skill. It will go wild or even unbond.

    This is a tough one. As I dont mind people using jewels for skills. Like I said, if you can use the jewels on Sampire and if you keep them on to keep the 99 required Necro....I am all for keeping the Sampire template as long as you still have the skill needed for the spell. I guess you could make stable slots based upon real skill....you wouldnt get an argument from me.

    No actually, you dont seem to understand the way this one works. You can bond it with jewels. But if you take the jewels off and start commanding it. It wont obey and it will un-bond sooner or later.

    Sorry, yes it does. Like I said for the 4th time. I am all for spell staying the way it is. But I think you need the skill to make use of it.

    Example: I think its lame you can soulstone SW and get a lvl 5-6 Focus and then Stone Weave back on and get the lvl 5-6 Focus with 120 skill...when your focus was gotten with 0 skill.
    I think it should be a focus affected by the skill level area its casted at.

    Call me crazy...I like a balanced game...where everyone can compete.

    No offense Connor. But you sound like one of the archers from 1-2 years ago that could AI/WOD one shot anyone. "Its just fine...leave it that way!"
     
  42. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Both spells need to be tweaked obviously.

    In the case of Wither, any person who takes an objective view of it can see that Wither is completely unbalanced compared to every other area attack in the game. Being able to deal moderate damage over an 81 tile area every second for an indefinite period of time puts Wither far ahead of other attacks.
     
  43. Limlight

    Limlight Guest

    Agreed Link.

    But so does EOW.

    I can kill spawn just as faster with Essence of Wind with a high level focus and arcane focus up.

    and EOW has a much broader range.
     
  44. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Close...he was an archer who spent most of his time saying that perfection, lightening strike and all the new ML bows were perfectly fine.

    Now, just like then, he is wrong. Proven by the fact that honor and critical strikes were both nerfed in pvp and all of the ML bows were re-balanced.

    In his defense he's a post SE trammy who thinks 250 hp shots from an archer should be the norm.
     
  45. "Yes, but if you take off the jewels...you cant command your newly tamed pet"

    You don't need to you can put it on guard with items then take them off.

    "When you try to put it in the stables that are full, can you put it in the stable after you put on the +skill jewels and have it stay there when you take them off? "

    Yes you can. You can also use a good deal of Magery spells without eval and it would be biased for vamp form to be changed and nothing else. Which is why it should be all or nothing. I personally would prefer nothing.

    "When you go to bond with it, if you have the jewels on will it bond and will it stay that way after you take them off? "

    Yes it will. It only unbonds if it goes wild from spamming commands with them off, but as most people are sensible enough not to do that they would give commands with the items on then take them off.

    This thread and the other one about the skill items that allow it say it should be changed yet this is not the only skill that has benefits from skill items so why does no one complain that magery doesn't need eval? It's all thoroughly biased and nothing should be changed if everything else isn't prepared to make the same adjustment for other skills.
     
  46. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Alot of other things should be looked at yes, but at the same time you've got to start with the most unbalanced and overly abused.

    When I go to Doom or a Peerless area and 9 out of 10 dexxers have a pale white face, you know there is a problem.
     
  47. "Alot of other things should be looked at yes, but at the same time you've got to start with the most unbalanced and overly abused."

    I agree, Tamers.

    When I go to Doom or Peerless 9 out of 10 people are Tamers. The only exception is Paroxysmus and thats only because he heals from pets if he didn't they'd all be there too.

    People use the wraith version just as much.
     
  48. Cysphruo

    Cysphruo Guest

    I really really like these ideas! They would be excellent changes!

    BTW I have a fully built sampire template and I have no problem with these proposed changes, learn to adapt.
     
  49. Saris

    Saris Guest

    ya nerf me. If you think its overpwered play a vamp sammy or shut up.

    Fine get rid of greater dragon's, or do I have to take a back seat to tamers.

    Or nerf my 820 skill point mage.

    I swear all you ppl do is ***** till they nerf something else.

    I wonder why no one ever waffles in game yet you come to stratics and blah blah blah

    How bout worring about the new publish and making sure its solid.
     
  50. Cysphruo

    Cysphruo Guest

    There's nothing wrong with tamers, there are plenty of other templates that can do just as much damage. Maybe you just want every template to do the exact same damage... a tamer is exactly that, you use a pet to fight, there's no fix for that besides removing them from the game and frankly one of the few reasons i began playing is because of the taming skill, I think a nice addon would be giving the necro skill some form of a controllable permenant pet unlike the "pets" from necro spells, why not a undead type thing that can gain skill and be somewhat decent.