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please get rid of stat loss for factions

Discussion in 'UHall' started by sativa green, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. sativa green

    sativa green Journeyman
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    this held great affect when there was hundreds of factioners playing on a given night, but that's not the case anymore. stat loss does nothing but limit the time for players to actively play in a pvp setting. this does nothing but keep people out of the fight. when there's already a limited number of true pvpers out there, why limit us even further? i understand that people shouldn't be able to return to battle so quickly, but if it's really that necessary, then limit it to 5 minutes, NOT 20.
     
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  2. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I think it should be revisited, 5 seems plenty. Spell duration should be revisited as well, where some easily approach 3 minutes, boring
     
  3. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    I would like to see stat loss limited to dying in a dungeon region or inside a faction base or city. That would limit stat to places where pvp serves a greater purpose than just fighting, ie champ spawns and sigils. But would leave places like the yew gate open for pvpers to restock and return to the fighting.
     
  4. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Aye it kills pvp, 20 mins is way too long to be sat out and it feels more of a punishmnet than anything else. 5 mins from getting a res would be better
     
  5. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Sure...great idea! Once they let factioners fight in tram till then u can take away stat loss all u want and noone will play it due to being no reward for playing..faction resources are worthless now no reason to play other than a cool title if you own the towns
     
  6. sativa green

    sativa green Journeyman
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    except there are many of us still playing in factions who simply log off or switch to a new character once in stat loss. the reward for killing players is just the satisfaction of killing them, but these days, it's mostly ganks from stealth archers and people using pets that cause a 20 minute delay between getting back to the fight that seems unjustifiable.
     
  7. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Exactly and there is no reward to your risk..it's definetly not faction armor minis maybe the or folded glasses..I personally still play factions but not because I like the system or even participate in town siege because the time to hold sigs is way too long imo they should corrupt overnight and all faction receive a message at xx time on xx date sigil will become steal able once they've corrupted and u have 1 he to retrieve them afterwards..not only does that stop off peak noobs who are afraid to fight..but give thief team a good time to setup defense and the attacker to get ready for an onslaught..now one hour my seem short but one hour of defending sigils can be quite exhausting ...so many things wouldake factions awesome or at least better than they are now..the days of bag balls and 40v40 are over
     
  8. sativa green

    sativa green Journeyman
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    risk vs reward died when insurance came in and is being further removed when factions no longer will require rank to wear armor. forcing some sort of risk vs reward that just results in players being put in 'time out' is pointless because it does not help keep the fights going.
     
  9. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Unfortunately there are many problems with factions other than stat loss..not saying your argument isn't true because it is to an extent..but myself personally still enjoy statting ppl and if that is gone so is factions..it's needs to be way more in depth then..oh no more stat loss
     
  10. sativa green

    sativa green Journeyman
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    i understand that, but it doesn't hurt to focus on one issue at a time. there's no way stat loss needs to be 20 minutes because it does nothing but discourage people from playing their faction characters. we are in factions to fight players, not be placed in time out when we die. coming up with other risks to dying is far more suitable then to keep players from actively engaging in battles.
     
  11. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Transport them to chaos after death..and disable the use of recall gate or walking thru a gate for 10 minutes..that's sufficient..or shrine related to your faction
     
  12. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Why do you suppose stat loss is imposed on faction players that die to opposing factions?

    In my opinion... if you do not want stat loss, leave factions and just be red.
     
  13. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Couldn't be said any better!

    edit: ...but it does need a major overhaul
     
  14. Sauteed Onion

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    I don't participate in factions and fail horrible in pvp. I do have a few suggestions though, and really like the 5 minute stat loss ideaology, but perhaps the amount of time you stay in stat loss should be correlated to your standing within your faction. The higher your standing in faction, the lower amount of time you stay in stat to a 5 minute penalty equating the highest "tier" in your faction. It would give people something to work towards maybe, with the removal of rank requirements to use and equip the faction equipment.
     
  15. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    Stat is a key part of factions. Its designed to allow for winnable pvp battles. You cant have that if you just rez and come back. Additionally you can come back and fight in stat. If you get rid of stat it makes sense to just completely dump factions altoghther and start over with another system that has no advantages and no disadvantages.
     
  16. sativa green

    sativa green Journeyman
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    all understandable but 20 minutes is just far too long.
     
  17. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    *facepalm*

    Stat loss is fine. Plenty of other things to fix instead of stat loss.
     
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  18. sativa green

    sativa green Journeyman
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    so make a post about the other things to fix. 20 minute stat loss does nothing but reduce the amount of players actively fighting. no other game has such severe consequences against the individual player for dying in combat. there are many other ways they can bring risk without limiting the player's playtime.
     
  19. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    lol you are not FORCED into factions. Quit factions if you dont like it
     
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  20. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Well I mean in all honesty the stat loss system has been around for as I can remember since the beginning of faction I don't know if length has been tweaked but I don't think so.. You signed up for factions knowing that you would be hit with stat loss if vanquished by an opposing faction member therefore..not much to really complain about..I mean 40 hours is a long time to deal with burning a murder count..but we now have pardons..maybe a suggestion should be a scroll to take off stat loss...at a price another gold sink for UO devs... happy hunting tho and may your back backpack be bustling with silver my friend ...but stat loss isn't going anywhere :( sry
     
  21. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    "instead" implies you think it's broken, but would rather see other fixes applied before this one? No one said immediately, just to be recognized as an issue, there's plenty who dislike stat that haven't posted in this particular thread. personally, i think it's a throwback to an era that doesn't exist
     
  22. sativa green

    sativa green Journeyman
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    i'm just looking from the point of view that keeps other players from joining and fighting actively. i'm on siege where risk is already established without the stat loss. stat loss when losing all your gear is just overkill. stat loss was implemented with factions, but that was when we had hundreds of players on. now it's the same 10 people at yew gate on atlantic.
     
  23. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    :gee: Stat Loss serves its purpose as designed. :scholar: That is why somone is pancakes about it. :devil: You died and now have to wait 20 minutes before you are a viable fighter again - Stat loss is working.

    There are MANY MANY more things to actually fix in factions other than Stat loss. :danceb:
     
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  24. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Why do people join factions? Realistically its ONLY because of the gear. What is the risk when joining factions for the gear? Stat Loss - Remove stat loss and there is NO risk. It would be a system of free gear for nothing.

    And no Sevin, I did not mean to imply Stat Loss is something that needs to be addressed. Of ALL the problems with Factions, stat loss is not it.


    If you do not like Stat Loss, then leave factions. This isn't a system to just give you free gear.


    ** Oh and anyone who is against stat, don't try to claim you joined Factions for the towns. We all know there is no incentive for today's playerbase to capture the Sigils.
     
  25. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I've always thought that the 20-minute skill loss period was a great incentive for people to work as a team when defending a stronghold or raiding, i.e., to keep an eye on each other's health and to do all you can to keep teammates from dying to the enemy, and also to kind of help rein in folks who tend to be rather reckless about endangering themselves by running solo among the enemy with the idea that they're invincible.

    Factions is a team activity. Skill loss, in my opinion, serves to emphasize that very well. Just my paltry two cents.
     
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  26. Smurcoch

    Smurcoch Guest


    This makes me laugh...True PVP'ers out there......

    True pvp'ers are pk'ers. They are red. Not Orange. This is a system that implemented completely unfair gear to give somewhat advantage for those actually playing. 90% of faction members do not even pvp. And the sad state of affair is that they call themselves "true pvpers" because they have the ability to have stat loss.

    If you want to pvp, and not going into stat when some gimp stealthing tamer says all kill, then go red and quit factions.

    If anything, All RED HEALERS should be banned from TRAM, and ALL BLUE HEALERS should be banned from Fel. Nothing is more frustrating trying to get rez'd as a red and seeing 20 blue healers and not one red healer.
     
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  27. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    pre-gear it was so you could freely pvp in large groups without flagging or going red, i agree with your post of course, just saying there WAS a reason to join factions, much like order/chaos, besides the gear for near a decade.
     
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  28. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Yes, but the timeline was so close together. When the change was made to have more than one character into factions you DID see quite a few guilds go factions. It was for the exact reasons you listed, and that was in may 08. In October of 08 you saw the gear introduced and that's when the majority of PvP guilds truly joined factions (Atleast on the shards I played).
     
  29. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    serve it better if x amt got stat, they All got stat?
     
  30. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    No. Why mess with the way it works? There's nothing wrong with it!! LOL
     
  31. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Sevin, when you're defending a base and have sigils that you're trying to corrupt, if the enemy breaks through your defenses and puts most everyone in skill loss, they only have a limited amount of time to do something with those sigils before your side regroups. The enemy needs to get a thief in the sigil room to take the sigils and hand them off, one at a time, to other players to run to their own base. Then, if they can hold onto them for at least 15 minutes, that stops the corruption cycle for the other side. If the other side, however, manages to get the sigils back in place before 15 minutes from when they were removed from their base, the corruption cycle just continues as if there was no theft.

    So, really, you don't want to shorten up that 20 minutes of skill loss by too much or it can turn the sigil guarding into a never-ending back-and-forth process that no one will ever want to do. Twenty minutes of skill loss gives you a slight chance of getting sigils back in time, but you really have to be organized and also hope that the other side runs into some kind of a snag or another.
     
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  32. MagicStar

    MagicStar Journeyman
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    Ive always been in factions for years now on 2 shards
    Never once tried the gear never even bought a piece
    And i often fight for the sigs
    Granted i fail often but its fun to me
    Im primarily a thief without snooping
    Havent robbed a single person since insurance came out
    We might be far and far between but we exist
    I didnt mind stat loss until it got less populated
    Now i think 5 min is fine
     
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  33. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Do away with Stat lose and do away with the Faction Arties at the same time and lets see how many people stay in Factions.
     
  34. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    There are great points on both sides here. With the current population on my shard I could see how a shorter timer ( 10-15 imo, with a slightly greater skill loss to offset ) could be an incentive. Tina makes for a good argument as well, so its tough to feel to as passionate about this issue, for me. I am always passionate about fixes in general though and pvp is my favorite objective, so a fix on any level would be welcomed. I have renewed hope with Mesanna at the wheel and am looking forward to hearing about the upcoming patch, and all the future patches.
     
  35. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    I agree, to PvP you need a level playing field, take the arties out of factions and watch everyone leave. Then and only then will it be a level playing field. It will also revive doom hunting and let the blue tramies make cash from the PvPers who control the champ spawns and scrolls
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.