1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Please increase Heartwood, Bloodwood, Frostwood spawn rate.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Ezekiel Zane, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    I've been lumberjacking quite a bit the last three days.

    The spawn rate of the top three wood types is ridiculously too low. I've only chopped 111 bloodwood boards and zero frostwood.

    They could double the spawn rate of all three and they'd still be stupidly rare.

    BTW, I've chopped over 60k boards total.
     
  2. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    115
    I would also like to see the rate of the upper ores increased a little as well. Think we're beyond the point where anyone would believe scripters have been hindered by any of these changes....
     
  3. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    Yeah, tell me about it. Almost nobody but scripters still mine and LJ. It's very hard to find and good and reliable supply or ore and wood.

    There's even too few scripters these days.
     
  4. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,947
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    I agree with you in spirit EZ. Although for me I would prefer them to go back to trees and ore veins having the same type of resource all the time. This is a change they put in that was supposed to hurt the scripters but hurt the casual and honest player more. Chop or mine for hours on end with little yeild of the good stuff. Meanwhile scripters can do both for WEEKS on end and still be ok. :(
     
  5. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    Oh definitely. Resource randomization pretty much killed all casual miners and LJs. Only the scripter can pull in the amount of ore and boards to work the percentages enough to get the rarer resources.

    The casual gatherer only gets lucky occasionally. Whereas the scripter just runs 24/7 and statistically will find the rare resources.

    I'm ok with the randomization but the spawn rates should have been tweaked more. A lot more.
     
  6. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,322
    Likes Received:
    164
    It's a common misconception to believe that the randomization of resources was done to hurt scripters. In reality, they were randomized to make the rarer resources actually "rare." If everyone has the ability to map out all the resources once and then farm whatever resource type they want, whenever they want, forever, the relative "rarity" of the resource types is moot.

    Unfortunately, there were two problems with this change:
    1. Even though this change had nothing to do with scripting, its main side effect was to essentially reward scripters.

      Legitimate players' time was drastically devalued by this change, as they could no longer maximize their limited playtime to generate precisely the resources they desired. Scripters also had their time devalued in the same way. However, this general inability to choose resource types eliminated all other variables from the equation, leaving only time; the one variable that scripters were already winning on by a wide margin.

      The resource randomization change hurt both scripters and legitimate players equally in terms of time valuation, but simply by putting both groups on an equal footing (by eliminating legitimate players' ability to effectively and consistently acquire rarer resources, thus disallowing scripters from cornering the market) the change swung the relative value between the two groups disproportionately in scripters favor by making time the only concern (a legitimate player can only play when they can play, whereas a scripter can not only play 23 hours a day, forever, they don't even have to be present at their keyboard, and can simultaneously do other things).
    2. The entire point of making the rarer resources more "rare," was that the rarer resources would bestow drastically greater benefits when used. I don't really see where they ever did that. What good is frostwood for, really, other than the fact that it gets you way more points at a turn-in? I don't see everyone clamoring to make full valorite armor in order to rule the battlefield, either.

      The ridiculous rarity of the rarest resources just doesn't match up with their usefulness.

    I would argue that the spawn rate of the rarest resources nees to be doubled or tripled. It would probably be simplest to change the exponential decay equation of resource type rarity to x^(-1/4) or x^(-1/5) as opposed to x^(-1/2) or whatever it is now.
     
  7. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I agree w/ y'all so far, 100%. I tossed my library(s) both resources, what's the point of having them anymore eh? or even doing it? For me, it's all about me, so i buy from Whoever has the best price, if that supports a scripter, then i guess that the Devs designed it to evolve, so be it.

    I may just invest in another soulstone or 2, and delete Another character, not like i ever use them anyways.

    oh, and Cal said he looked into this, and even raised the %, plus others here said as well that they were getting the designed %, so i wouldn't hold my breath
     
  8. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    They should make clusters. Like an area on a server where all trees spawn from a range, location changes daily.

    That way if you find a cave full of valorite, or a grove full of frost wood, you can take advantage of it for a day, and it would be more, and easier to find, but still requires the effort to go out and look for it.
     
  9. Cirno

    Cirno Purple Pony Princess
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    224
    What if high yield resource spots were a reward for a form of mini-quest, like a treasure map?

    At its most simple, it could be "an old prospector's map", which when you find and dig it, you receive something that smelts into 100-200 coloured ore.
    Abandoned mining camps, like the no-longer-occurring gypsy tents.

    Replace prospector/mining with woodcutter, and you have lumberjacking.

    Haven't considered how you'd get the maps, but it's one way a mechanic to allow a gatherer a guaranteed resource haul.
     
  10. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,947
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    I like this idea actually. Tie in a deal where the quest can only be accepted 4-5 times a day or so, this would enable the casual honest player a chance to actually compete with the scripters on some level. Maybe even code it to where you had to walk x number of steps before you hit the next spot. Recalling out before taking the steps causes the map or quest to go away. Futher causing a scrpiter some struggle, instead of just recalling in and out they would actually have to walk and give us a chance at killing them fel side. Something like that would be nice :)

    Can't stop them from scripting sadly, but Dev's can make it to where it's rough as crap on them.
     
  11. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,716
    Likes Received:
    1,390
    I agree with this.
     
  12. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    I agree let increase the spawn of these types of resources. Although I do have an alternative way of getting them but hey not all can do it.
     
  13. Willard

    Willard Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    22
    This would be nice! Make LJing and mining worth doing again.
     
  14. T-Hunt

    T-Hunt Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    640
    Likes Received:
    35
    How about making it were a log gives you boards not a board..
    Seriously,,,1 board per log...dam you be fired from the mill if thats all you got..

    As for scripting for resources, i think they must have a beter way..
    If i could afford it i would just grab like 50 tree stumps and screw chopping trees..
     
  15. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    Using a prospector tool and gargoyle pickaxe (AKA Pickaxe of Excuvation) I get an even spread of ore. Just no Dull Copper that would be cured with eli spawn and 25 ore on them instead of 2.

    Now add in some upgrade tools for lumberjacking. Add in rarewood treefolk spawning. Then it WOOD be worth while. Have one those crystals as loot on the rarewood treefolk some times. Don't forget to lvl 1 Tmaps as loot also for us that gather in scripter free paragon land. Frostwood Treefolk Paragon chest next to the stack of 25 frostwood logs. Call it the Reaper Hatchet and add to the Reaper loot like the garg pick on Stone Gargoyles. Magic resist skill training a pet can have a side bonus of hatchet looting.
     
  16. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,502
    Likes Received:
    469
    Something like this, yes; At present what stops me mining is that, apart from the lack of uses for high end ingots, to get the Gargoyle Pick Axes means doing an entirely separate system, that is BODs, which adds even more time to the mining... When Gargoyles Picks are common on vendors I'd buy them all up, but the last vendor who stocked them that I know of went under a year ago; I looted alot from Idocapalooza recently too for this reason.

    But when I do have them, it's relatively easy to get even Valorite with an hours set up; mining along any mountain in one direction and marking all the locations will usually reveal maybe 5 Agapite spots, which can be boosted to Valorite. Using the gargoyle pick allows me to pull elementals which my Miner is combat capable enough to kill and get another 50 ingots (hopefully!) as well as the blackrock for imbuing which actually makes it profitable to do.

    This was how I saved up about 20m to go towards buying my first dreamed of Rare, So that kind of system can work, and in favour of the honest players against scripters, as you can't script the elementals turning up, or killing them when they do. They just need to make Gargoyle Pickaxes and Prospectors a purchasable, or maybe a faction reputation reward, instead of a BOD reward, so people who actually put honest time into mining can do so productively; otherwise what you are doing is multiplying one random fractional chance against the second random fractional chance, which due to simple basic maths, means you'll end up with a smaller, more time consuming figure.

    The problems as mentioned with lumberjacking is twofold; you can't seem to get the higher board types anyway (My record is two bloodwood trees marked after chopping literally the entire Yew forest; I've never naturally found Frostwood, only looted it from idocs) and there's no way to manipulate the spawn to do so, with attended risk... so the above idea, which is transplanting mining mechanics into lumberjacking would be a good one. With the tweak of course that it shouldn't be tied to any form of BOD. Make it a heartwood reputation thing to buy the mystical wood transmuters in turn.

    If I mentioned it would be a "miner" goldsink too, if you had to buy the items for even a tiny cost, instead of winning them in a free BOD lottery, do you think the devs will like the idea more? :p
     
  17. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    755
    Likes Received:
    642
    Of the top three wood types, bloodwood has been the rarest.

    I LJ from time to time and when I do I use three full runebooks. It takes about three hours to run through all three. In that time I average from
    0-800 bloodwood
    0-1200 heartwood
    0-1000 frostwood

    I always get at least one of the above wood types. Most often it is heartwood.

    I wasn't playing uo when wood and ore were in set locations, but it occurs to me that they could experiment with using permanent locations for resources in areas where recall/gate does not work.

    Ilshenar, felucca dungeons, T2A, Abyss.

    This would still limit scripting, but allow for casual resource gathering.

    Anyone?
     
  18. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    One try jacking the woods around the Royal gate once. And don't jack a tree dry if it is not what you want, one next to it maybe different wood type. And like mining the mountains around the fields of brit, lumberjacking in safe areas not that hot. Necro Sword Jacker and go in the hotspots. Even nice spawn like the Ilsh spirit pixies woods has a good spread rare wood. Good thing the pixies are like batting tomatos to my axer.

    Way Prospector tools come up is just fine. They don't burn out like the pickaxe. 3/4 the Prospectors I get are followed by "Are thee giving me things made of metal?" or gold sale to Provisioner.

    Now with a combat miner. There is the Ilsh desert Stone Gargoyle spawn. I mine and kill gargoyles in that little valley there. Picks, paragon gargoyle chest, maps, ore mined & looted, gold, salt peter, gems, paragon rare ore eli chest and CBR are gathered there with rare chance at Marty drop. Great productive spot if it wasn't for the long run back after an unload. Even if the fire beetle dies just drop the ore. get it next trip. Noone hunts/travels there and most don't have a miner that can survive the spawn. Being 120 smith there is also the metal loot to recycle. Why we need a living anvil pet like the Rockhead Minion. Why should my Combat Tailor only be able to fill BODs on the hunt?

    Just ask the LS EMs about the last mining comp. Moleman was at. And what they think of mage miners compared to a combat miner.
     
  19. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    On Sunday my son and I went out looking for val spots..... if not for the use of the hammer and the gar pick we would have struck out... as it was most of what we got was from the eles! not the spot. This is horrid.... Ever sence they started shifting spawn spots you cant count on getting nothing but iron! Oh, and if you havent been mining of late whats with the 1 piece of the color and the rest being iron.... i mean 19 iron pieces and 1 shadow???? come on!!

    Wood is way worse...
    Went out and chopped down my whole island and not one Bloodwood, Frostwood or Heartwood.
    I live on occelo....not some rinky dink island. If not for my tree stumps I'd not have a single frostwood board to use!!! I hord my top woods in fear I'll not get more ..... In a game that is bad...... Before the mad rush to get rid of scripters there were set trees we found you could count on getting some frost... not alot but enough. The vast changes meant to kill off scripters only killed off players as the fustration built at the lack of help in this.

    Both wood and ore needs to be fixed in both location and type in my opinion. Perhaps put it back to the way it originaly was. Scripters are a moot point these days.
     
  20. TheVampster

    TheVampster Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    3
    Or how about just going back to set ore and wood spawns. Their way didn't work as good as they thought to stop scripters. I still see them from time to time. It would make it so much easier on us hard working miners and lumberjackers. I have my mining spots, and use a prospector's tool a lot, but dang it. When I need a certain ore it was so much easier to recall to the spots and build it up. I had a book for every ore. Refilling vendors with ingots is hard to do now. It still took a lot of time to mine, but now it takes even more to get what you need.
     
  21. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,726
    Likes Received:
    286
    The tools is a good idea that probably wouldn't be that difficult to add. That being said the map idea sounds great and could really help casual players get certain things. I did have tolerable success getting these resources from the ships but that is a very expensive way to get them.
     
  22. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    393
    up the rates, make a quest, create some tools...whatever...just let me get some higher end resources
     
  23. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    Then there is a new champ spawn added into the random champ spots. ELemental based. Ore and wood eli spawn levels. Instead of gold an explosion, have gems like the Crimsom used to do from the champ. Find a dead spot in Ilsh where the champ perma spawns. Ahh paragons.

    Good times the Eli Invasion of Minoc. Rare ores spawning across the lands.
     
  24. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ok, well after chopping trees for more than 7 hours today and about 16 hours total, I've accumulated over 100k boards now.

    Of these, I have 1400 Heartwood, 930 Bloodwood and Zero Frostwood.

    They really need to do two things.

    First, increase the spawn rate of all the special colored wood. C'mon 75% regular wood is dumb.

    Two, there should be a tool similar to the prospector's tool, for lumberjacks.
     
  25. looker118

    looker118 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2011
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    2
    I am one of those loonies who still mines and lumberjacks. When we get high end logs they always convert to the max number of boards. When we get high end ore we get a descending scale of success percentages - 62% success rate with 105 mining smelting valorite, for example.

    What I would like much more than static resource locations is the same 100% success rate with ore that we get with logs.
     
  26. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,673
    Likes Received:
    865
    other than increasing the chance we need something like the prospector tool and gargoyle pickaxe for lumberjacking.

    The gargoyle pickaxe for mining REALLY change the final amount of resources... I mean if you take down a valorite elemental you get 25 valorite ore = 50 clean ingots, all from a verite spot (or agapite if you use the prospector).

    In short, the ezekiel 1400 heartwood with a system like mining would be 1400 frostwood + drop from mosters that should spawn...
     
  27. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    Whoo hoo! Tree Elementals.
     
  28. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    Damn I finally got some frostwood.

    One-hundred forty-four thousand boards into it over the last 3 days.

    I got 33 frostwood boards just a moment ago.
     
  29. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,012
    Likes Received:
    63
    You don't need to chop the whole island of trees you just need to deplete a single tree repeatedly enough within something like 30 minutes to trigger the spawn new wood type threshold.

    Go to a small area of trees and go around in the orchard plot depleting the wood until a new wood type spawns. Then once it spawns only take a couple chops off it every 30 minutes or so and don't deplete the entire wood spawn. If you don't want the new wood then deplete that too and keep going until the wood you want spawns.

    -Lorax
     
  30. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,673
    Likes Received:
    865
    ehhehe
    no, wood elementals no :D
    better treefellows :p
    Like Heartwood Treefellow, Frostwood Treefellow, etc...

    also with different specials like elementals:

    Oak Treefellow: can reflect 50% damage
    Ash Treefellow: incredibly fast
    Yew Treefellow: high damage
    Heartwood Treefellow: bladeweave special
    Bloodwood Treefellow: life leech
    Frostwood Treefellow: slow down everyone around him with a cold aura
     
  31. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    Well on the frostwood vs valorite arguement. You forget that 25 valorite off the elemental and smelting. How aften we fail 3-5 times in a row ending up with a few ingots. Logs to boards has no loss like that.

    Frotwood Treefolk following the lines of rare ores would have all the properties of the other treefolk.Being fewer wood type the frostwood should have it's own power.

    And the Oak Treefolk would have no spawn from jacking. And natural spawn would have 2 logs like the Dull Copper 2 ore.
     
  32. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    6,107
    Likes Received:
    92
    I sure do agree that we need to find a better way to keep the resources "Rare" while at the same time making them somewhat more "Obtainable" than they are after the change.

    I do understand that it may require special "Techniques" to get the more rare woods and ingots...but there must be at least two to three other and improved ways of accomplishing this same objective, while making sure it is balanced enough so that people won't want to poke their eyes out with bowling balls.

    I think Ezekiel has shown that it is just crazy to go out and log away in the hopes yo might get some Frostwood. Good Lord! 144K in boards...and he gets 33 Frostwood.

    OK...it's rare!!

    Now let's see if we can make it Rare and Fair!!
     
  33. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    Yeah I ended up with 152 frostwood boards before it changed to a different wood. I had over 150k by that point.

    It is just insanely too low a spawn rate.
     
  34. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    I was thinking about another idea for better amounts of the rare wood.

    They should one definitely increase the spawn rates of all the colored wood so that regular wood totals out at about 50% of what you chop.

    They could also, increase the amount of logs you get from the top three or four wood types. So when a tree changes to Yew, Heartwood, Bloodwood or Frostwood the minimum number of logs you get is increased. Sometimes on some trees you only get 3-5 chops and then only 1-2 will be colored wood.

    They could also make it so that the rarer wood types, when they spawn, are more static. So instead of it having a chance to respawn as a different wood type every 15 minutes or so, when it's one of the rare types of wood it locks it in for a short while. Maybe two or three hours or some time before it can change. You'd still have the randomness but when you did find a tree giving rare wood you could get more wood from it before it changes.

    They could also change it to give at least 2 boards per log instead of 1. This seems like a pretty simple way to effectively double board gathering for the casual lumberjack.
     
  35. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,673
    Likes Received:
    865
    you must consider 2 important matters in all this harvesting:
    - Elf characters has better chance to get rare wood
    - Felucca double your wood per chop

    This makes all more complicated :p
     
  36. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    Well elf characters do get a small percentage increase for rare resources. Does anyone know what it is exactly. Two percent, five percent. I don't think anybody even knows for sure. At 150 strength humans can carry almost 600 stones. That's a lot more than an elf can haul so you can stay out longer between unloading.

    I quit mining and chopping in Fel. I got tired of being harassed. Granted, I quit several years ago when the population was much healthier.
     
  37. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,673
    Likes Received:
    865
    the chance of rare resources is enough to let me take the elf :p
    you can quickly recall back and use a beetle so the weight is not an issue...
    about fel, just do it in yew in the guarded area and noone will bother you :D