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Please remove the 3.0 point SoTs as a reward.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Stranger, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. Stranger

    Stranger Lord of the Dance
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    These things are going to destroy the game. You can find them for 1-2 million gold. Which means I could go from 99 skill to 120 skill by just spending 7-14 million gold.

    That isn't right. A new player isn't going to stick around very long if they can just be given months worth of work in seconds. They'll hit the cap too fast. Won't have any goal to strive for and will get bored.

    It took me years to work up my skills to GM and beyond.
    Now a group of people with multiple accounts are destroying the game in a matter of weeks because you didn't cap the puzzle to 1 character per day per account.

    I ran across one vendor with 14 of these scrolls. And the expansion has only been out for 2 and a half weeks. I could buy 6.0 points of archery for 4 million.

    Anyone see a problem with this?

    It's only going to get worse. When the scrolls stop selling the prices will lower. You'll be able to make a new character with 50 fishing skill. Spend about 8.5 million gold and be GM without ever having to cast your line once. *sigh*

    I hate SoTs...
    I even thought the 1.0's were too much...
    Why weren't they capped so you couldn't use them beyond 80-100 skill?
    Why are people so lazy these days?
    That puzzle box room is 0 risk. All reward. Takes seconds because of the guide.
    It's like if you just went to college, pressed a button, and walked away with a masters degree without doing anything.
    *sigh*

    Atleast in Felucca you can kill the people farming the SoT's. Can't do anything to these people in the puzzle box room. I'm sure you'll get paged on if you purposely try to kill them since it's in Trammel.

    Ahh, why do I even care? *walks away* :cursing:
     
  2. Dragonchilde

    Dragonchilde Guest

    Part of me wants to say "just don't use them" but frankly... I kinda see where you're coming from. It's hard to justify such a huge boost of skills in one fell swoop. 1-2 mil? Damn. That's cheap.
     
  3. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, SoT's are kind of lame. I never liked the idea of them when they came out. But if people are willing to spend so much let them.

    At least the high-ends aren't very common and spawn randomly by skill.
     
  4. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    No.



    And it's not like you can buy hard to raise skills (taming, imbuing, etc) for real cheap.
     
  5. Kafka72

    Kafka72 Journeyman
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    I totally agree, this SoT stuff has gone too far. They're practically giving this game away anymore. The sad thing is that there are SoTs in game that are 5 whole points, I kid you not. Only seen them on one vendor, about 10 of them way overpriced. Not sure what it takes to get those but seen them and just shook my head. I remember back in '99 it took me about 3 months to just GM Blacksmithy. I'm beginning to think that the "carebear" statement in that one interview is a little bit tame even. Such a shame...
     
  6. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    7 char slots say 6 skills, thats 42 skills, times say 10 mill t
    hats 420 mill. curious wheres a new player going to get that much gold.
    also could u tell tell me whos selling 3.0 taming or imbuing sot's for 1-2 mill?(would like to buy several)
    personally i like the 3.0 sot's. not much of what u said makes much sense to me, u can go to legend on weap and magery skills in a day or so with a golem and poison weap. the only ones i can see who wouldn't like em are the ones who were farming them for gold, as this is going to cause a price drop.
     
  7. Stranger

    Stranger Lord of the Dance
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    I think they need to make some major changes to the puzzle box room.

    #1. Decrease the rate at which the 3.0 SoT's drop. Or better yet make it once per day per account. That way you don't have one person using all 7 of their characters to get so many of them.

    #2. Reduce the 3.0 SoT to a 1.0 SoT. There is no reason for it to be so high. The puzzle box room is NO RISK. It requires NO EFFORT. People are using a freaking cheat sheet for crying out loud.

    #3. Don't allow people to log in the puzzle box room. Kick them out if they do. To the entrance of the Underworld is fine.

    #4. Don't let "newbie" characters grab the compass. Not sure if this would do any good.

    #5. Add a monster in the puzzle box room. Like a True Harrower? *grins*
     
  8. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I don't know about you but I've done the room every day with 12 characters since two or three days after launch... I've gotten THREE (3, tres, whatever 3 is in other languages) scrolls of transcendence. THREE. Tres. 3. You get the idea.
     
  9. Stranger

    Stranger Lord of the Dance
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    Your one of them, aren't you? :)

    I guess. I saw a 3.0 taming for 20 million. (And at this rate it'll be cheaper in a few months.) Probably the main reason people are farming the box. Every other skill is going to get destroyed because of 2 or so hard to raise skills. Pretty sad. And I thought taming and imbuing were supposed to be hard to raise for a reason. Now it doesn't seem to matter you can just farm a box for them. :thumbdown:
     
  10. jaraxlebaenrae

    jaraxlebaenrae Journeyman
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    My luck hasnt been much better with only using 5 chars...5 sots total and only one that was really usable..3.0 archery
     
  11. The Fallout

    The Fallout Guest

    You are blowing it out of proportion and simplifying the difficulty of getting the ones you need and the costs across multiple characters. Sometimes it's much better to just go train.

    Don't use em if you don't like em. They are not destroying the game, maybe someone is mad they spent hours training their skills? These SoT's are very useful for taming and discord and such.
     
  12. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Haha, funny. Go back and read my other post.



    And look. How many skills are in UO? 40 something, right? You have less than a 1/40 chance of getting any particular scroll, assuming you get a scroll at all. Odds are you'll get the ****ty deco item you get every other time. And just one scroll isn't useful at all unless you want to save a little time. For the bonuses to be really significant, you need multiple scrolls, which decreases the odds much further.



    Or, if you go the route of buying it, for crafting skills you end up paying the same amount you would spend training the skill and just saving time, for combat skills, you could probably make more than the cost of the scroll by training it that 3 points. You get the idea right?


    So look, they're fine. Really.
     
  13. -=KLiM=-

    -=KLiM=- Guest

    Before you start blaming the SoTs as a reason why new player leave, ask yourself a question: Do you have your skills maxed? If so, why don't you quit like those new players would (according to you?). If you are working on tamin/imbuing, you ain't gonna get those SoTs that cheap.
     
  14. Stranger

    Stranger Lord of the Dance
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    You guys aren't thinking down the road. Imagine someone with 3 accounts. 21 characters. Doing it every day. For months. Let's say they get 30 a month. (jaraxlebaenrae said he got 5 using 5 characters, and I have also gotten 5 using 5 characters, and it's only been 2 and a half weeks. So 4x the characters is 4x the scrolls. Plus a month is about 4 weeks so 30 seems like an okay number to go with.)

    Now imagine multiple people doing this...let's just say 10 people are doing this.
    That's going to flood the market with 300 of these scrolls per month.
    They will be able to transfer them to any shard they want (Heck, if they are doing this on multiple shards, they are going to get 30 scrolls on each shard per month, if they do it on 5 shards they're actually going to be getting 150 of these per month.)
    So 10 people, 3 accounts, 21 characters, 5 shards, is 1500 scrolls per month?
    It's going to be EASY to buy whatever skill you want.
    By this time next year there will be 18,000 of these scrolls either consumed or in circulation.
    Not including the 100's or 1000's of extras gotten by the avarage joes.
     
  15. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    People whine about people macroing to get their skills up in one day and ask for a legit way to increase skill gain. SoT's are implimented. People whine because "They're breaking the game, woah is me! woah is me!" What can you do without a max char? You can hunt low end stuff. Yay. So much fun. I'm so glad i'm paying $10 a month so I can chop a lizardman up for a couple hours." Yes, the journy is fun.... THE FIRST TIME. What new char is running around with enough money to just SoT every skill they want? What new player even knows how to make a half decent template right off the bat? If people want to power game their skills, they'll just macro it until it's 100. Or you could do it a half legit way and use scrolls. Why do you care? My god this is sounding like a pointless arguement from... ____. How does this effect you? How does finishing a char sooner effect you at all? How would a new player use this? You expect it to be down to 1K for 650 skill points next week? Please be realistic. And No, I don't use SoT's and I don't farm the puzzle quests either. If you're going to whine about something, whine about something useful... like gargoyles, unbalanced weapons from expansions, lack of love to old lands, UO costing too much... what ever.
     
  16. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah this is a pretty lame argument. No new player is going to be able to afford to max out their skills using scrolls, even after these 3.0 scrolls have been ingame for a while. It just simply won't happen. Only old players that don't want to train swordsmanship for the 12th time.
     
  17. Stranger

    Stranger Lord of the Dance
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    Alright, whatever. I don't care. Free skills for everyone! :thumbup: :heart:
     
  18. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    True.
     
  19. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    See "No new player is going to be able to afford to max out their skills using scrolls, even after these 3.0 scrolls have been ingame for a while. It just simply won't happen. Only old players that don't want to train swordsmanship for the 12th time."



    Oh wait, that's right, I think you blocked me because you overreacted to one post of mine.
     
  20. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
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    When I can drop 30$ and have 85 taming, lore and vet off a token from UOGameCodes, why be worried about SoT's? Folks who play the game keep it funded, if they don't have time to train like you did, but want to enjoy the end game; give it to them, their subscription fees keep you playing too.
     
  21. Stranger

    Stranger Lord of the Dance
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    I just think it's messed up to reach the end of a skill without doing any of the work.
    Some people don't have fishing characters. Have never tried the fishing skill. Have never fished a day in their life. But as soon as the Devs implement some new fishing stuff...People will instantly go from 50.0 fishing to 100.0 fishing because of all the scrolls that are out there rotting on vendors. Then they can go reap all the rewards without any of the effort. If anyone has ever gone out and GMed fishing (without setting up a macro and going to watch TV) they know how hard it is. Just a shame that hard work means nothing. But I guess it is a game afterall so whatever.

    I guess one thing that bothers me is it is a bit like the whole Blacksmith/Tailor thing. Everyone has one. Nobody has to rely on anyone anymore. So now when new fishing stuff comes out nobody will have to rely on others to get it for them. Real true fisher men/woman/roleplayers won't be needed. Everyone will just make their own and go out and farm the items till they are useless bank floor trash.
     
  22. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    i don't know about you but working skills is the boring part to me, once my skills are maxed out on a character then i can enjoy the game and do whatever i want to, i haven't had to work a skill for years until now because of imbuing and mysticism
     
  23. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    The only thing messed up is your post.:dunce:
     
  24. Potgut

    Potgut Seasoned Veteran
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    Cool! So this means I will be able to buy gold from internets and then buy SoTs with it? So why spend hours like a sucker training taming and magery for months when I could just spend a week's worth of my work's paycheck to buy all the SoTs I need? but first i'll give it some time and let the SoTs gather, collect, and depreciate a little.
     
  25. Stranger

    Stranger Lord of the Dance
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    85 taming is nothing compared to 120. Earning 120 takes months if not years to achieve (atleast, it used to.) But I guess you all don't mind seeing dozens of players on your screen all controlling a greater dragon? Yeah that shadowlord event sure was fun :eyes:

    One issue I have with this "Instant Skill" problem is that it will make people close their accounts faster. If new fishing content comes out and they don't have a fishing character but they have a 7x GM character...instead of having to work like 3 months to get the fishing skill up they can just buy the fishing skill with SoT's, go through the content in 2 weeks, and close their accounts. Heh. So EA loses out on 3 months of subscription fees. Plus they won't be back cause they aren't attached to their skill. They didn't work hard for it. Everyone has a fisher character. Who cares. It means nothing.
     
  26. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    We already have dozens of people all with greater dragons. And even if we didn't, very easily possible with just 85 taming and two +15 jewels, which are insanely easy to get now that imbuing is here.


    So really, useless, useless argument, get over it.
     
  27. Stranger

    Stranger Lord of the Dance
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    Ah, stupid skill jewelry. Another thing that should not be in the game. :(

    At least there isn't any fishing skill jewerly eh? :thumbsup:

    Oh wait doesn't matter we can just buy it to GM :dunce:
     
  28. Corpse

    Corpse Seasoned Veteran
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    Where and how do i do this quest?

    a link containing this information would be nice !:heart:
     
  29. guum

    guum Guest

    Good lord. Some people will complain about *anything*.

    I mean, I get that there is a certain segment that wants UO to be as difficult as possible, because, to them, it can't possibly be fun if it isn't difficult. But training skills isn't really difficult...it's just time-consuming. This is a way for those who choose to do so to cut down a bit on that time spent. And, coincidentally, it's also a fantastic way for new players to make some gold. The drop rate isn't *that* high (I've probably done the puzzle around 50 times on various characters, and I think I've gotten 5 SoTs total). It's a nice "daily" that even casuals can do. Etc, etc. Not sure why I'm even arguing this one, except that I'm slightly drunk and I was taken a bit aback by all the posts agreeing with the OP.
     
  30. StarlaUO

    StarlaUO Guest

    Any moves to improve the skill gain is going to encourage new players to play this game.

    In the very beginning it was fine for skill gains to be slow without advanced tokens / SOTs because everyone starts off almost at same level.

    With the majority of players currently being vets, we have to be be realistic and accept that most new players would be discouraged to join if the system is such that they need like 5 years of game play before they can catch up in terms of skills and equipments.

    And it's going to be difficult for a true new players to buy all the scrolls to reach 120s overnight. Even currently its very difficult for an average player to buy 2-3 +3 taming /imbuing SOT to go from 115-120.
     
  31. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    Actually, not everyone has a blacksmith and tailor...or any crafter for that matter. I find it too boring to do...I'd rather be pvping (or trying to at least :p), stealing, idocing, doing spawns... ANYthing but crafting. I'd rather gather ingredients (or buy them) and give them to someone in my guild (plus something for labor cost) and have them make me something, rather than train one of those skills for 3 days. I HATED trying to train my tailor when I tried it. I think she only reached 70 tailoring when I deleted her...and that was 4 or 5 months after I made that char. I hated it that much.

    Also... I don't know what new fishing items you're speaking of, but it sounds pretty boring also, and I'm not about to drop even 10k on a fishing SOTs so I can go sit a char on a shoreline somewhere and get whatever it is. Too boring :wall:
    And Yes...I'd rather pay someone else to go get it for me (meaning, get whatever item it is off a player's vendor).

    And I dont find any of this lazy...I find it a good investment of my time and gold... I don't want to spend gold to buy SOTs or spend time training a crafter I'll hardly ever use because its too da** boring for my tastes.

    And since I'm not the only one who feels this way, there's always going to be a market open for people who will or can do it.
     
  32. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Ironically, although I haven't actually done this puzzle yet (wanted to wait until after the initial rush and it just hasn't reached the top of my "to do" list), I'm losing interest because it's being camped by merchants enough that all the other rewards are rapidly approaching "junk" status.

    A reward structure that pairs a rare consumable with common non-consumable deco seems flawed.
     
  33. guum

    guum Guest

    This I do agree with. I would like to see more consumables (those hard-to-farm imbuing reagents are a good choice) added to the list, and I'd like to see the deco rewards rotated out for other rewards on a regular basis...it'd be nice if there could be like 5-6 deco rewards available through the puzzle for a couple of months at a time, then have 5-6 new ones at the end of that couple of months, etc.
     
  34. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    Don't forget everyone. Just like when ToTs came out or any new system for rewards they let you gathers tons to keep you interested for a few months. Then they kill it to where you really have to work for it.
     
  35. BakeryGnome

    BakeryGnome Guest

    Dude! Stranger, it took you years to get your toons to GM? hehehe....it only takes me 3 days max to fully train a toon (there are only a few that take you some real time, taming/ poisining). Even then...it is only a matter of time until you reach 100-120.

    quit your complaining...I dont think the drop rate is bad at all.

    (damn right I am "one of them")!
     
  36. aoLOLita

    aoLOLita Sage
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    I am "one of those people" and love the SOT 3.0's :)

    So far I have got:

    3.0 Cart (x2)
    3.0 Fish
    3.0 Ani Lore
    3.0 Smith
    3.0 Tinker
    3.0 Archery
    3.0 Swords
    and yes, also 3.0 Herding & Camping

    In addition, 4-6 walls, 12+ pillows, 3-4 peds and enough decor to open a Bakery:) Not to mention enough ingreds to Major in Basketweaving:)

    SOT's enhance the player experience, not detract from it! I play the game to relax, not to mirror Real Life - I do have one of the latter because I don't spend 24/7 training skills.

    I have my crafts peeps crafting, my hunter/gatherers doing their thing and my Imbuer drudging along (and draining the Clan's bank accounts). Why shouldn't my "alt" chars be earning their keep? I choose to pay for extra accounts each month, it is nice to make something from them albeit in game revenue.

    Maybe once I amass several Imbue, Throw and Mystic SOT's for my own use, I will share your opinion ....
     
  37. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    I've played more than 10 years and I still want to quit UO every time I have to wait to play because I have to spend hours gaining skills.

    The skill gain system has been so borked since old power hour that it makes me sick just training.
     
  38. Kiwillian

    Kiwillian Guest

    Just be thankful you don't play on Siege then :)

    RoT is usually a royal pain, but it is actually a boon for some skills.
     
  39. Wilde1

    Wilde1 Guest

    its fine like it is, imo. I run 8 characters through the puzzle almost daily. Have only gotten 3 SOTs, one worth mentioning (magery).
     
  40. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I disagree, I think SoTs are a good thing for the game as they allow newcomers to catch up with existing players faster thus providing a more challenging PvP environment and no prvileged existing players because of their powergaming or older characters.

    The game does not end when one has trained up a character so, I do not see how giving a little help to new comers might be of any problem here.

    I would imagine quite many vets are still playing their characters which they developed
    years ago. So, I do not see any problem in newcomers developing their skills faster to be able to be a challenge to existing players...

    Besides, chances are new players will get their own SoTs rather than spending millions on some.

    I think only those who need those last few points might be willing to spend millions on SoTs, those who need to train up a character I doubt would do it entirely with SoTs.

    At least, that is my view on it.
     
  41. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Yea... they could pay several million for a few skill points, or they could just script/unattended macro it for free... like they always have. This doesn't change anything.

    -----------------
    I'll rephrase the previous statement:

    People are already scripting and unattended macroing their skills to GM and Legendary for free.
    How will +3 skill for a few million gold change anything? The scripters and UMers wont buy them, that's for sure. The worst this would do is give honest players a quicker alternative to skill gain.

    And let's face it, skill gain for certain skills at high levels is ridiculous. Discordance anyone? Animal Taming? Many people don't even bother to max these skills anyway; they just take them to 90 and use +skill jewelry.
     
  42. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Just put it in a fell rule set and let players take matters into their own hands.
    :twak:
     
  43. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    We should make uo as hard as possible. No macros, no runebooks, no ethys, no bonded pets, no bank checks, no sots, no insurance, no bandageself or bandiepet macros, we should point and click EVERYTHING! Yeah people will be flooding into your local shard immediatly. Because it's harder, and way cooler to do it this way. And that's how I did it.


    NOT!!!
     
  44. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Taming still takes months or years to get to 120, and you can't macro it. Guess what builds get nerfed too. Tamers. (*cough* Greater Dragons *Cough*) Also, no offense, but no one is going to go from 85 to 120 taming on SoTs anytime soon. Not unless they have a LOT of money. New players don't and they're more likely to quit the game trying to farm the money to get all the 3.0 scrolls they need before actually doing it.

    I'd hate to say this, but your way of thinking if very... archaic. -.- Much like the "2D is best" thinking. Not to stir that bees nest, as I think people should be able to play what they want, but... a reluctance to change is going to kill this game faster than any 20mil 3.0 SoT scroll.
     
  45. The OP is screwed. Everyone in this thread actually agrees with what popps said. It's a sign that this crusade should end. :fight:
     
  46. Stranger

    Stranger Lord of the Dance
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  47. SirZ

    SirZ Journeyman
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    [​IMG] for remove SoT's from game.
     
  48. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    BINGO!!!! Winner!!!!!

    Quite well said.
     
  49. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    I get so sick of these kinds of remarks. The game is dying,the game will die if you don`t (insert vocal minority demand here) The game will die if ya don`t make it easier! The game will die if ya make it too hard! and so on and so on and so on and so on.

    Lets just say you bring your internet Int. down -1 with every sentence containing any variant of "this game is dying" :dunce:

    Sorry,I get annoyed with these types of statements since they`ve been thrown around for the past 12 years......but yet,we`re still here. Oh and look, ANOTHER new exapc even after the past 2 failures at a 3d client.YES by cracky,that is indeed what a dying game looks like.The willingness to throw good money after bad in attempts at creating something that new and old players will like, should be enough of an indicator that UO is NOT dying but instead attempting to rebuild and expand.

    If this game was in its death throws there would be no events,no EM`s no updates and certainly NO EXPACS.

    I do agree with everything else you mentioned.

    *Sorry for the dbl post,should`ve edited I guess....Its early,still waitin on the caffiene fix!*
     
  50. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    You're starting with the assumption that players are playing the game for the fun of skill gain. Some are, some aren't. Inferring from your post you probably enjoy skill gain. Others like me (for the most part) don't.

    Did you have fun doing it?
    If Yes, then what are you arguing about? You already have your reward--the fun of skill gain.
    If Not, why would you subject other people to the tedium of skill gain?

    Not really, no. Archery is an easy skill to gain. The only good reason I can think of of buying +Archery scrolls is to obtain Legendary Archery for an Archery Contest in a short amount of time.
    In PvM GM and even less skill is good enough for most monsters. Obviously you wont be soloing peerless with it, but it's enough to kill dragons and the like.

    Oh come on, this is just a terrible slippery-slope argument. SoT's have been out almost a year and only the completely useless ones are that cheap. And who cares if someone quickly GMs a useless skill. GM or not: It's useless.

    People have always been lazy.

    This is rather unfortunate. Would be nice if they found some way to randomize the puzzles instead of having them pre-set. But judging from UO's reputation with random numbers, it might not be such a great thing to have that either.
    The puzzles will be fun for those who play by the unwritten rules, namely: "Don't cheat and look up the answer."
    Perhaps if they switched the Puzzles in the 3-puzzle-box room (the one with the Experimental Gem as a reward) for the Puzzles in the 1-Puzzle-box room, there would be more skill involved and more risk (the lightning discharges from the maze-pizzle can be deadly)

    Only reason I could guess is because you miss working hard and being ahead of everyone else. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can't last forever. Since there's a set cap on how much skill one can obtain, after 12 years the playing field gets evened-out.