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Please tell me it isn't so!!!!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Bobar, Oct 22, 2014.

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  1. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    I see in another thread that a couple of players are claiming that they have obtained the new ToT skulls with less than GM begging. This is the one event for which the begging skill is useful and to obtain the 'rare' items GM has always been necessary. As far as I am concerned that alone is bad enough but reading some posts it could be that to have GM begging is a disadvantage and thus you are penalised for having it. It seems that if you have a lower begging skill you do not qualify for the older 'rares' . This means if they do get a drop it is far likelier to be one of the new skulls. Having done some hours already doing ToT and getting Chairs in Ghost Costumes, Grim Warnings etc and just one new skull, this does not exactly warm the cockles of my heart or fill me with admiration for those who caused this anomaly. I have spent my hours to become a GM beggar and this is my reward?.

    It is possible that I have got this wrong and if so I apologise, so as the title PLEASE PLEASE tell me it isn't so.
     
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  2. S_S

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    I don't think being GM has a disadvantage because if I read correctly even lower begging chars are still receiving the lower end rare items. I do feel you should have GM begging though to receive the higher end items. Why bother to GM it if it gives no real reason or small advantage to? :(
     
  3. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Bobar i think its very fair..why do u need to have begging skill to simply say trick or treat...and yes have 1.0 begging skill and got the 1st crystal skull after about 150 goes...so its good and totally random..the way i would hope it would be...why penalize non beggars for the trick and treat fun of halloweseen
     
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  4. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    GM begging is awsome regardless...
     
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  5. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Why do you need GM taming to tame a gd? Why do you need GM magery to cast 8th ciricle spells without fizzling constantly? You get the idea. You wanna do the thing, invest in the skill points. Nothing is stopping you but your own dedication, or lack thereof.

    Of course the real thing is that you DON'T and never DID need begging of any level to trick or treat. Anyone could always get candy. You needed begging to receive the rare treats. It makes perfect sense, as someone who was an expert beggar would elicit better treats than someone not used to begging.

    Clearly unlike the other years begging doesn't even factor in at all this year (or last if I recall correctly), if people are getting it with no begging.

    In my opinion it should be 100 to get the new items, 90 to have chance at any item from last year or earlier, 80 to have a chance at any item from the year before last or earlier, 70 to get a chance ant anything later than than that, and under 70 just gets candy.

    Begging has TWO things in this game. One is the not rare random items "aquired by begging" from the elves, and two, the hands down more popular and interested thing was trick or treating.

    So basically once a year begging had ANY value what so ever. But with this change it goes back with camping, taste and item ID in the box of completely useless skills.

    Why take it away?? Stupid change.
     
  6. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    just got the jade skull...in and around 200-250 more goes going on candy i drop on floor....very happy 1.0 begger/ 99.0 simple tricker-treater here....2 down 1 to go.... finger crossed for the obisidan one next....not tonight though...not pushing my luck....wait till tom!!
     
  7. Whitewolf of *VK*

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    ok so how does one gain in the begging skill? im at 50 begging and i been running around for an hour begging every npc i come across and cant gain nothing, and yes its pointed up and no im not skill locked not even close. also so far i have ToT over 400 stones in candy at 50 begging but all i get is candy, what am i doin wrong?
     
  8. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Non beggars have never been penalised, anyone can trick or treat and always could. The intention was that to obtain the 'rare' items GM begging was needed. As proof of this intent please read the following from 30th August 2013 --

    '• Some old and some new items have been added to Trick or Treating, including the heads of the UO Dev Team on a pike. GM Begging is required to have a chance at special Trick or Treat rewards, including the Heads on a Spike.'

    So it begins to look like my interpretation of the current ToT is correct and yet again we have an unannounced and possibly inadvertent change. This time it makes the effort to get to GM begging worthless. One wonders what will be changed next.
     
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  9. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Confused now... I was sure it was a sliding scale chance from 70 or so skill upwards, with much higher odds at GM .. but looking at last year's Producer notes,

    http://www.uo.com/article/Publish-83-TC1-August-30th-2013

    "Some old and some new items have been added to Trick or Treating, including the heads of the UO Dev Team on a pike. GM Begging is required to have a chance at special Trick or Treat rewards, including the Heads on a Spike."
     
  10. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    im happy the way it is this year...last year was last year
     
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  11. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    maybe need go back for another spell of trick and treating b4 any more whinging gets things nerfed again....ala the latest VvV whingers of quite shard easy points....now all shards have crap low points...well done ala whinge...
     
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  12. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    GM skill must not be required had someone tell me earlier that with only 35 skill she got an Obsidian Skull... VERY sad.
     
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  13. Whitewolf of *VK*

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    Well then i must be like the unluckiest person in UO then
     
  14. S_S

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    If this damn game gets an "easier" and "Less to No" skill required for things, I might as well quit and save money. Go play neo pets or something with my younger kids for free.
     
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  15. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Clicker Hero's... Requires zero skill and you can pretty much play it without playing it. Infact it plays itself better when your not playing it.
     
  16. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    I see that you are once again most eloquently expressing your opinions and to see that anyone with views different to yours is a whinger. It is not too surprising if you are obtaining skulls without putting in any effort that you are happy. Most of us would be happy too but that does not make it right. This game is suffering badly from poorly implemented events introducing changes many of which appear to be inadvertent, certainly they have been unannounced. We also suffer from a lack of communication but that is nothing new.

    I look forward to your next exposition and until then I will repeat to myself 'I must not whinge'.
     
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  17. Larisa

    Larisa Reporting Manager
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    Question....though I DO believe you still need GM Begging to get the older items such as the guillotine/Chair and the others considering I've only gotten 3 heads on pikes, tons of webs and all the new skulls and I am NOW at 71.5 begging from 70.2. (Thank you Heartwood!)

    Has anyone UNDER GM Begging gotten any of the older items? IE The chair, Guillotine/Gruesome Standard..because those are the items I need...so I'll GM Begging just for that lol.
     
  18. weins201

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    "Some old and some new items have been added to Trick or Treating, including the heads of the UO Dev Team on a pike. GM Begging is required to have a chance at special Trick or Treat rewards, including the Heads on a Spike."

    This is how it SHOULD be, in no way should a NON GM beggar be getting these items but now that it has happened they BETTER NOT change it back.

    This is a MASSIVE screw up and if you think it right well , phfft, you are entitled to your opinion and so am I,

    On second thought I hope they d change it ASAP and make is so GM is only one who has chance as it should be.
     
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  19. Larisa

    Larisa Reporting Manager
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    Well yeah that's the only reason I had started training Begging in the first place, to have a chance at something besides candy...but so far this year I have gotten both colored webs of both directions, all 3 of the new skulls and 3 heads on pikes at 70.2 begging, but NONE of the older items..so maybe the chance for the older items is still set to GM begging only, not sure why that would be but that seems to be the case.
     
  20. Riply

    Riply Lore Keeper
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    Seems like when they introduced the new items (skulls) they foregot to make sure the skill level had to be higher. Like others have said I believe at like skill 70 you could obtain some if not all the rarer drops. So now if you have lets say skill less then 70 and can get the skulls and (perhaps) not the other rarer items then you have a much better chance of getting the skulls then like at the GM level. If the powers to be want players to work on increasing a skill then they should have some rewards implemented for there efforts. The skulls a re cool looking deco, and I will try and get some when time permits, these will be a common item in a couple of weeks anyways. It's just the way its set up now is annoying for the players that spent the time to GM begging.
     
  21. Whitewolf of *VK*

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    how long did it take ya to go from 50 to 70?
     
  22. Miss Smoocher

    Miss Smoocher Journeyman
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    why have begging skill at all for the junk we get a bunch of water and french bread and if we cant use the skill for anything else just junk the skill all together. unless we get other things to do with it or re do the stuff given for begging. i mean if it is made to be use on players thats not skill needed in game lol
     
  23. Larisa

    Larisa Reporting Manager
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    I have no idea...it's been a few years since I've trained begging but I know it didn't take me that long...a few hours a day in heartwood for 2-3 days, I remember those gains were fairly easy. Even now I've gone from 70.2 to 71.6 in about 2 hours and I'm not constantly doing it, I don't use UO Assist or any macro's so I'm sure it would go a lot faster if you did.
     
  24. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    then can u Please explain why when u ''trick and treat'' u get noooo begging gains....hence there is no begging skill being used??? [end of]
     
  25. Whitewolf of *VK*

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    he has a point, if an action requires a certain skill then you should be able to raise that skill by doin that action.
     
  26. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    AGAIN I SAY IT ... CAN U PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY WHEN U SAY 'TRICK OR TREAT' THEN U DONT GET BEGGING GAINS....HENCE THEERE IS NOOOOOOO BEGGING SKILL BEING USED...SOOOOOOO NO BEGGING SKILL [ZERO] IS REQUIRED [ END OF ]
     
  27. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    thankyou... it makes sense.. there are no begging skill gained so its simply not a begging skill...simple..
     
  28. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    update 1.0 begging skill....2900 luck???? ....still 1.0 begging skill after the sot i used to get there form the town quests.....no gains after 600 trick/treats ...guess i dont get begging gains as beggingis not a feature in the trick or treat festival of fun for ALL..

    2 skulls and 3 heads on spikes... 600 candies [guess as they dumped]
     
  29. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Are you actively using the begging skill on them or just saying Trick or treat to them?
     
  30. THP

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    thats the argument .. if trick treating is actually begging.. then u should get begging skill gains... as i see it .. no begging gains means no begging skill required.. the devs have done there job... thankyou
     
  31. Larisa

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    It's linked though, if you beg someone and get an item, then say trick or treat to the same npc it will say *that doesn't appear to have any more candy* SO ToT and begging ARE linked...but you are not actively using the begging skill when you trick or treat so don't get any gains.
     
  32. Whitewolf of *VK*

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    yes im using the begging skill, i moved from brit to heartwood and now im gaining, up 3 points already
     
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  33. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    lol because u just begged what they had....... and they have nothing left to give...or the timer as not rest to give anything else....

    if u say trick or treat and get a item then say trick or treeat again they say the same...no more candy to give...... so no no no
     
  34. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    devs the argument is plain... if u intended the new skulls to be gm begging???? why i have no idea why 99% of the populous should miss out and have to buy them........but yes then u must ...must ...implement a begging gain while ''trick or treating''.... ie.... u actively seek to beg for items....hence u are begging while u trick or treat............... otherwise iam more than happy as it is... simples
     
  35. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I just want to add my voice to the complaints that the Trick or Treat rare rewards (the new skulls included), do not need GM begging, not even as a higher chance at a rare item drop.

    I mean, for how many things the Begging skill can be used in Ultima Online ?

    The once a year Trick or Treat was a short window where a Grand Master Beggar could make some nice use of this MUCH neglected skill.

    Apparently, it seems the Developers think otherwise and just made Begging not matter much in getting rare Trick or Treat items...

    Now, that's a developing choice I cannot possibly agree with...... the use of Begging skill should have been made way, but way more meaningfull in getting the rare Trick or Treat items.....
     
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  36. popps

    popps Always Present
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    How about level of Begging "increases" the chances at a rare Trick or Treat drop ?

    That is, no Begging still gets a chance at a rare Trick or Treat item drop but the higher the Begging skill, the more the chance at a rare drop with GM Beggar getting a significant boost.

    Sounds plenty fair to me this way..........
     
  37. Whitewolf of *VK*

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    BTW i been ToT for 2 days now, i had 50 begging(just hit 55) but i have gotten nothing but candy, so for the person that said they got all 3 skulls with 1.0 begging yea no sorry goin to call BS on that, an for everyone concerned that you don't need begging and its useless skill, well no worries you do need high lvl begging to get the items, by all accounts you need atleast 70, to start getting the items, and by the looks of it the closer to GM you are the better chances you have of getting them.
     
  38. weins201

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    Sorry but if I have a lower or no begging but sit there 24/7 and beg well eventually one might fall :-(
     
  39. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Ok I will try to explain how I see this. If you beg from the NPCs you can obtain gold, or in Heartwood items, dependent on your begging skill you MAY also get begging gains. When Trick or Treating you use your achieved skill, that is the level you have obtained by actively begging. The objective of the Devs when ToT was introduced was that the rare items required GM status, I take it you read and understood the post from 2013?. GM was intended to be required to get the rare drops. Now you may not agree with this but that is what was intended. If they wanted players to gain begging skill from ToT they would have made it so. As they did not one must assume that is how it is supposed to be. If you cannot understand what was intended to be, then it is likely nobody can enlighten you. As for posting in caps that is rather rude and uncalled for. One can make a point just as well without them and caps only used if you wish to emphasize a certain word or phrase.
     
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  40. weins201

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    I am sorry in advance to all of you who get offended but this is what I have received Trick or Treating, Slowly gaining Begging every so often from 90 - 91. You can clearly see how much candy I have gotten and the TWO (2) items other than candy I have received. I have probably been at it for maybe an hour in game time (at most). Soo if you any lower than me in begging or 0 and you have gotten ALL the newer items then well you know where this is going.

    I am very sorry to see that the continued scripting is allowed and even profits in this game :sad2:

    If you don't like it :gun:

    Bobar, you are exactly correct in assuming that less than GM begging should not have a chance at the items, even the two I got :coco: but at last the , as they say "care bears" win out again. And trying to reply to them just isn't worth it , something like trying the same thing more than once hopping for a different result :whip:

    In closing how long has ToT been Active?

    2 items at less than GM begging in one hour?

    2 out of 507 = .3% LESS THAN 1 % LMAO
     

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  41. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    BECAUSE AS ORIGIONALY IMPLIMENTED AND DOCUMENTED BY THE DEV TEAM IT REQUIRED BEGGING TO GET THE RARE TREATS. IT WAS ADDED TO GIVE AN OTHERWISE USELESS SKILL SOME VALUE.
     
  42. Nexus

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    You ever seen how much gold you can rack up begging for 1 hour a day for a year?



    About as much as you can in an hour in the Painted Caves.
     
  43. Shelra

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    I totally agree with everyone that one should be GM Begging to get the rares. I am alternating by raising the skill and then trick or treating; you cannot blame the Trick or Treaters who are low level skill and gets a drop. I'm not talking about scriptors, honestly I dont understand scripting or how it's done, and I can't speak for that person that claimed to get all three new skulls at 1.0 skill; I am currently 35 skill and an Obsidian Skull dropped for me in Zento this morning. No one was more surprised than me. Perhaps I'll get another drop, who knows. I do know one thing though, be careful of what you say.....either out of anger or what you perceive to be true, because you might just be wrong. Perhaps you should start a char out at 0 Begging skill like I did yesterday, and see what drops in your pack after gaining and trick or treating.
     
  44. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I certainly don't blame people who get them with under 100. It's not their fault. I blame the dev team for spoiling the only thing begging had. If they had not included begging at all in the first place it wouldn't matter, but they did, and everyone who cared took the time to raise the skill, and now that work has been rendered meaningless.

    I think people who only care that they can get the good items without taking the time to raise the skill, and who don't see how changes like this can hurt the game are annoying, but that's a different issue.
     
    #44 Uvtha, Oct 22, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
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  45. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I really hate when everyone has a fair shot at holiday items, instead of making them huge moneymakers for a small chunk of people to hoard!
     
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  46. S_S

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    I really hate when someone is too lazy to train a skill for slightly better rewards once a year. And damn if you can't stone the skill when not needed for 11 months out of a year.
     
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  47. Nexus

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    That what I do, stone it, except when I'm feeling like going around begging from elves.
     
  48. Larisa

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    I like training period...begging is a BEAR to train but once you hit GM or Legendary what else is there to do? I don't like hitting *End game* too fast cus then I get bored :/

    I got 2 points gains in Begging tonight so I'm happy. Maybe next Halloween I'll finally be GM lol :)
     
  49. Nexus

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    The point of the people arguing for GM begging is as recently as last year you were required to have GM begging to get the rare treats.

    http://uo.com/article/Publish-83-TC1-August-30th-2013

    They want to know why this was changed, as it takes a considerable time to GM the Begging skill. You might not agree with it, but if a skill one of your characters has, had it's only benefit removed from the game I bet you'd be a bit flustered as well.

    Right now the purpose of Begging has been entirely nullified beyond the title for RP purposes. And let me leave you with a bit of philosophical wisdom.

     
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  50. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Remember the context, that Locke was referring to the person who did the labor as having rights to the fruits of his labor. If you're applying that to UO begging, at least those who fully trained the skill aren't worse off. There is also the Biblical parable in Matthew 20 of the vineyard workers. In the end, everyone was paid the same wage, whether he'd worked the full day, half a day, or less.

    Is it "fair" that less skill can now get the same reward? Maybe, but the "gods" have decided to make it easier, and be wary of asking them to return things back. I have never seen any UO Dev team return something to balance, only nerf it severely. Most recently, VvV silver was too easy to get. What happened? So let's be glad anyone already with GM begging isn't getting any less.

    This is not the first time that people worked hard for something only to have those coming later get the same for less effort. Once upon a time, surcoats were not craftable. They were rare presents handed out for RP events (basically one cozied up to a Seer to become a principal character in an event or story arc). There was a UO comic showing someone's great efforts in the RP community, showing off her reward, only to have the tailoring addition cheapen her surcoat. However, those surcoats seemed to have been unique in the slot they took. I never knew which one, but the person I knew on Sonoma who had a surcoat reward could wear a sash over his. It confused me and a Counselor when surcoats were craftable but I couldn't push a sash over it.
     
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