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PoF, crafters, durability, repair deeds

Discussion in 'UHall' started by T_Amon_from_work, Dec 16, 2008.

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  1. PoF and deeds have pretty much taken crafters out of the picture. I think a lot of you would agree. This is a quick, 30,000-foot view of something I've put out before.

    Each item with durability gets the following:
    1. POF-USED set at some number - EXAMPLE = 10.
    2. DEED-USED set at some number - EXAMPLE = 10.

    All items with durability have the same initial values for each of these flags - making handling simpler. POF-USED and DEED-USED are displayed attributes on the line AFTER durability numbers. Yeah, one more line to an already long list.

    PoF usage:
    Each application of PoF decreases PoF-used by one. So using a full PoF jug will set this counter to zero. Result: PoF can no longer be used on this item ... for now.

    Repair deed usage:
    Each use of a repair deed decreases Deed-used by one. In the example above you can use a deed 10 times and then the flag = zero. Result: Repair deeds can no longer be used on this item.

    Zero/Zero counts:
    Item will lose durability and max durability with eventual breakage when both hit zero.

    Reset them:
    Requires a player crafter of 90+ to make repairs. The possibility of breakage exists. A successful repair resets the values of the flags at the starting level with any possible durability loss that may occur even now. A failure to repair may break the item, but if not another attempt to repair may be executed.

    Notes on things:
    No, it's not complete. Yes, there are plenty of failure points. I personally would love for the successful repair of an item to reduce the max possible durability by 5 - period.

    That would mean a third flag - PC-REPAIR. Increment from zero by 1 each time a player character repairs the item. Thus MaxDurability = 255 - (PC-REPAIR * 5).

    Why? Because I believe that items used are meant to break. Items ingame perpetually should be museum items and not in the active field of battle.

    Oh well ... have fun tearing it to shreds. But this game needs to do something to get *_community_* back together for more than Champ spawns and events. <shrug>
     
  2. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Hanging out at a blacksmith shop for hours waiting to click "repair" is still fun? (I can understand when graphical MMORPGs were new, it was a thrill ... but is it still?)

    How many shards have well-staffed veterinarian res-points? That would seem to be a good model of a system that already forces player-interaction ... and I've not witnessed any community building up around it. Sadly, one of the original motivations for opening a second account was that I found I couldn't get anyone's attention to get a mount revived.

    I sympathize with the sentiment ... but I'm just not convinced it will work.
     
  3. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    It's obvious there is a lot of thought in the proposal and that should be mentioned. I'm not willing to invest time in any measure that doesn't attack the route cause of the problem. Crafting and loot need a major overhaul in order to any idea like this to work. Since AoS the systems for crafting and loot have fallen into the gutter. BoD's only compounded and already difficult situation and I doubt imbuing is going to do anything more than complicate an already poor system.
     
  4. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Want to help the crafting community?

    Eliminate all repairs to armor and weapons. I know there will be many who disagree, but then again, they are only thinking of themselves when they complain every time this is brought up...la
     
  5. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I dont think people want to wear gm armor anymore it's absolite but on the other hand i make a good chunk of change crafting lrc mr2 gold etc suits individual pieces sell great. Unless youre talking about people waiting around at a shop for armor to be made that aint gonna happen no matter what they do. Just not enough people anymore everyone will be talking to them selves. And those that are left already have there own crafters you know whith the 5-7 slots and all.

    Of course if this is a siege issue got to remmember to put on the post that its a siege shard thing. As the rules for siege do not apply to production.
     
  6. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    No, it's a UO issue. Players have become too selfish when they discuss "forever" items. Between blessings, insurance and item repairs, once a player has attained an item, they have absolutely no reason to get another, unless it's for another setup (suit in the case of armor).

    If items would wear down and break, players would be forced to keep going out and either attaining gold to use to buy items, or farm for the items to be enhanced. But it has become a me, me, me game and it seems most of the players on the production shards are affraid to lose one of their precious items...la
     
  7. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    As usual, you have no clue. Tell us more about production shard life Sieger.

    If all items broke and had to be replaced on a constant basis those who have amassed large amounts of wealth would be unaffected. They would just buy what they want while the rest would have to constantly toil to compete. Some players would like to play the game moreso than have to grind for items to replace what is broken.

    When I can craft what I lose then I will welcome decay or breaking with open arms. Until then I choose to keep my precious items.
     
  8. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    But there lies the problem. If a Gm made aromor broke players will go buy another gm armor. But if a hp5,si8,hpr2 with 23,22,5,10,6 mage arms break how long will it take to find the exact same piece to replace it? When players have built there suits and taken years to find exactly what they need to make there suit then after 1 break they have to start all over again. The break system only works when you have maybe 2-3 different type of armor pieces gm, gm exeptional or non gm where you have plenty of crafters that can make a replacement in minutes. As we have it we have millions of combinations needing high end rare runics to make and only 15 charges per runic to actually get that one piece you need. Break system dont work on production not any more.
     
  9. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Why do you have to replace an item with an exact duplicate? Adjust, adapt...move on. Stop leaning UO toward a single macro..."easy button"...la
     
  10. The_Letter_E

    The_Letter_E Guest

    With Imbuing it'll take about 5 seconds to find that "perfect" item to replace a broken one.

    E
     
  11. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Cause it takes Years and lots of gold!!!!! Unless you prefer to use mediocre armor for youre dealings and get owened in pvp and pvm because youre suit is sub par compare to everyone else. Youre thief you mainly play a thief you can get by mediocre armor cause you dont get hit for 60 damage a sec on a 70 suit by monsters.
     
  12. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    We still speculating on imbuing unravel system. it might take years as well of farming unless you play 24 hours to get what is needed to make just 1 item good enough to wear. And that will break eventually. most likly imbuing wont be used so much. People do not like replacing items they work there poor fingures for.
     
  13. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    You know, it may be a sign of the Apocalypse, but for the sake of this thread, I'm going to side with Rico. I'd be interested in seeing what would happen to the game if repairs were removed completely.

    Finding items is not a problem - loot is all over the place. The problem is that our standards are ever-increasing and so it just *feels* like its hard to find good loot, forcing continuous power inflation as a motivation. I think a bigger problem to getting to learn what makes a good or bad suit when cobbling something together quickly - it's a UI and training issue.

    I do disagree that people are selfish in wanting permanence - it's not selfish, it's simply a different endgame. Ever-perfecting a suit and the tactics that fit it is a perfectly fine way to play (and while learning the game, it can be devastating to lose a good, high dps weapon before you figure out why it was good) ... the only problem is that it obsoletes too much content in the game. And I don't think it would benefit crafters as much as it would benefit people able to grind higher-end mobs.

    ( aside: I did play without insurance / PoF / repairs on a couple of characters for a couple of months as an experiment last year - it was a lot of fun for a while, but eventually I did reach a point where it was hard to find interesting things to do when I knew I could accomplish them so much faster with a suited-up character and the frustration of trying to replace a good item holding a suit together was non-trivial )
     
  14. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    This is exactly why I craft/look for loot with Self Repair 3+. So in the future if POF does go away due to all the malcontent people on these forums I'll still have a suit that won't break...granted I'll be giving up another potentially awesome stat, but I'd rather have a permanent item than an extra leech or whatever.

    Most of the suit on my Samurai/Paladin and Mage are comprised of self repairing pieces. Runic or looted. I don't plan to use imbued items.
     
  15. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    *sighs*

    No.

    UO is an item-based game now, and to lose an item is tantamount to losing a skill in the old system. You die, you lose 10% off of, say, your Magery skill, and can't get it back.

    Taking away items will do naught but favor the richest players in the game, with the biggest guilds, who can more easily replace stuff.

    A better idea is what they are doing: create a new way to get items that are not going to be PoF-able, but will enable us to have predictable mods on an item.

    Those items will die sooner or later but they are also going to be replaceable more easily.

    Players such as myself who don't like the idea of getting dressed being an important skill, and who prefer to get dressed only once and be done with it, will not use the new items, but will stick to our older "forever" items that may not have everything we want, but at least we're done.

    Kind of like those of us who have bumper stickers on our cars that say "don't laugh, mine's paid for." Don't laugh at my gear, it's PoF-able.

    It'll be a choice to make.

    -Galen's player
     
  16. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Like I said, UO players have become selfish...la
     
  17. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Selfish....reasonable....it's all a matter of opinion. Something at least I can discern over fact.
     
  18. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    at therefore Siege is bursting because of all the 1000 and 1000 of players or what????
    you are la la nothing else :coco:
     
  19. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Funny how you try to turn this into a Siege discussion, when clearly it isn't. Nice try, bub...la
     
  20. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    ROFL @ "reasonable"...la
     
  21. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    and also funny that you dont understand WHY siege empty is and ever will be
    it has indeed something to do with ITEMS :talktothehand: lala
     
  22. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    LOL, stop making things up to defend your selfishness. You want to keep your precious things from breaking so you don't have to do anything to replace them.

    Sorry, if the truth hurts...la
     
  23. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Well, you see Rico, opinions are like.....ummm....nevermind, I forgot how the rest of it goes.... :D


    and no more derailing T'Amon's thread. Sorry T
     
  24. Chaosy

    Chaosy Guest

    As much as I would have not liked to see POF/255 durability items in the first place, the system is already in place.

    Changing it will undermine the entire AoS system.
     
  25. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Yeah, stop it.

    Now let's go back to talking about selfish players who want to have indestructable items they never lose...la
     
  26. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Now that's a great idea...la
     
  27. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    *sigh*

    *backs away from earlier solidarity*

    Obviously this discussion has decayed holier-than-thou trolling.
     
  28. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    So now because we disagree on the "selfish" area of the discussion, it has now become trolling? At least now I can see your thought process on the issue...la
     
  29. Chaosy

    Chaosy Guest

    Yes, it is selfish, because for everyone out there that doesn't play Siege or Mugen, they've worked hard to obtain the items. If the system were changed, you'd have a mass of players quitting the game for all the time and effort they placed in obtaining their gear.

    To be honest, crafting was fine until the mass of dupers/scripters/exploiters started churning out kits and hammers in the blink of an eye. On one hand, they made super good items easier to obtain. On the other, it drove a further gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots," leaving many people struggling to compete in an item-driven game. With the increased Doom drop rates, decrease in value of good items, faction artifacts, etc, it's now starting to become more balanced. There is no point in changing that.

    Crafters would not be out of the picture if the legit ones were not affected by mass duping. POF sells well, as do clothing bless deeds. Everyone I know of has at least one crafter, but the issue here is crafting the profession, which I'm thinking is one of the focuses of imbuing in SA.
     
  30. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    It's because you can't always seperate the message from the messenger.
     
  31. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    QFT

    Oh, and don't try to drag Siege into the discussion...it has nothing to do with the conversation...more like a red herring...la
     
  32. Chaosy

    Chaosy Guest

    No, it completely has to do with the discussion. It's common knowledge you play Siege, and as such you have the most experience with the Siege system. Unfortunately, a lot of the inner workings of that shard does not apply to other production shards. Yes, I know you play other shards as well, but they're still significantly different. You will not be able to force a non-POF, non-insurance, no-bless system without an outrage and a mass exodus from the game.

    You QFT'd me out of context. The selfishness is justifiable, just as you saying people are selfish is justifiable. It's a matter of opinion and both sides have good arguments, so there is no reason to "fix" the system in extremities, especially when it will cause an even bigger loss in the player-base.

    I respect you for your opinion, however your attitude that anyone who doesn't agree with you is selfish, and any mention of the word "Siege" results in you ignoring that your opinions are highly impacted by your Siege experience makes YOU the selfish one.
     
  33. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Except for the fact that i am looking at this from a UO players perspective, not a Siege perspective. I am well aware of the rulesets on the Trammy shards, so that was the route I was speaking for...not Siege.

    (on a side note, I hear a lot of whining when I do bring siege up, yet when I don't, it's the production shard players that bring the shard up instead...funny how that works)

    The AoS ruleset turned this game on it's ear. Anything that might try to take the system back a few notches would be go for it. Making the craftables breakable would do just that...la
     
  34. Teeshy

    Teeshy Guest

    I think that breakable armour/wepons is a great idea - this whole idea of keeping the same stuff for all of forever is very odd to me =P

    If each item started out with max durability (255?) and then you got rid of PoF altogether, and each time a repair is attempted on it, it loses 1 durability, it would still take a while for items to break forever, but at least they would! Makes more sense for stuff to break.

    Otherwise you might as well just do away with PoF, repairs, durability, the whole lot - everything is invulnerable *shrugs*
     
  35. Sindris

    Sindris Guest

    And this is how it worked in the beginning. It worked well. Rich and skilled players could still use their uber gear, they simply risked losing it when they died. People didn't fret about gear quite so much back in the day, if they lost their gear, they generally had a few backup suits and weapons to throw on and continue with. GM smiths were a viable full-time UO profession. People needed smiths for repairs and new gear.

    I understand why people would be reluctant to lose those super-nice suits they spent years putting together, but I could do without these same gear-reliant players preaching about risk vs. reward while defending insurance and PoF. You know who you are.
     
  36. Jermosh

    Jermosh Guest

    Good point, I think I enjoyed the game the most when you had to just use GM gear and have the rare suit of Invul and Vanquishing weapons. My fondest memory was killing liches with a Silver Cutles of Ruin. But we would not be able to move back to be honest.
     
  37. That right there is what's wrong with your entire statement.

    I'm with phantus on this one.
     
  38. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest


    ROFL omg you want everything to be about tsiege or to turn every production shard into siege.. GUESSE WHAT !! there is a reason we dont play on siege and thats because we dont want the freaking stupid restrictions and rulz !!!!!!!


    To me alot in of fun in this game is putting together the right templet and the right gear... running around in semi decent or mediocre gear is about as much as fun to me as playing pong....

    Calling it selfish that i want the absolute best gear possible for my toons makes you look silly , when its you who is selfish and dont want peopel to have better gear than you.......... you complain that peopel cant handle to loose there uber gear.. hell can you ???? issent that why you run around in " semi decent gear " on siege because you dont want to loose the uber gear ???

    Go away we dont want your silly siege crap rules on our production shards.

    If we are talking the new boss drops , and this goes only if they keep dropping , im ok with they might break or cant use POF on them , but when its my one in a million valorite made weapon , or 100 millions worth freak drop item NO WAY !!!!!!!!!!


    Getting the shard together because stuff needs repairs wont make a diff , is there anyone playing for more than 6 months who does not have a legendarey/GM multi crafter ???
     
  39. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    "Originally Posted by TheScoundrelRico
    players would be forced ! "




    Excactly he wants to force all players to play by siege rules like it or not , and if we dont agree with him we are the selfish ones... la my heini !!!!
     
  40. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    And now they are forced to harvest gold have uber suits to compete/upgrade. The difference is that eventually things would even out, and the power level averages would be much more balanced, as suits would overall be much less oober and easily attained, that way more people could more easily get involved in pvp.

    As well as opening up more doors for crafters, and people who like to pvm to sell mid level loot.

    Its win win around I think, but then again I have always been against the type of design that revolves around an ever escalating cycle of power-ups. I think its bad bad news in an mmorpg.
     
  41. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Less uber and easy obtained is kinda like using cheat codes in a game.. yeah its cool to have nice stuff , but the next day you kinda lost interest in playing the game .... If there is nothing to gain by saving up millions and crafting and trading why the hell do it ??? pre AoS I collected Vanq's and power weapons , fortified and Invul armour , I had a vendor placed at my forge only to price check every single GM crafted item I made , to see if one was better aka slighter higher valued , now I collect anything uber that can help me kill my opponent , rares and weird labeled shoes I would not spend a single gold coin on . Make all gear a dozen a dime and I would quit.

    Call me selfsish and a gear freak but thats how I roll and there are alot of us
     
  42. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Then of course everyone having less uber suits can all get 1 hit killed by a drake or lich. Lowering equipment for players will make pvp more on a even level but what about pvm? I dont believe they are getting nerfed they just keep getting stronger then we need a group just to fight of a deamon unfortunetly as some people prefer to be in a group good luck finding people everytime you want to battle mid range and higher creatures on the tumbleweed shards.
     
  43. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    This I would like to see as well.

    Make items break!
     
  44. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Wow, as phantus said, you have given this alot of thought, good proposal.

    I have a couple of questions though:

    1) I think people will switch over to imbued items once SA is out, which means they will eventually break. Having suits tailored to your needs which you know can be replaced (even if it takes months to gather the ingredients), outweighs any advantages of having indestructible items. So it might not really have that much of an impact?

    2) Having player crafters repair the items to reset the counts will mean that there also be a way to prevent the crafter from running away with your item. If not, most people will create their own crafters to do this. And although this puts crafters back into the picture, the player interaction I think you are hoping for may still fail to happen?
     
  45. Clarifying things ... just because Siege does things different doesn't mean they aren't affected by what is currently in UO and what may be proposed. Don't toss stones at folks who are just as concerned for UO as you are because they have a different style!

    Harlequin - I would think that a trade window setup might work. In appropriate places (smithy, tailor shop, etc) tools of the trade (anvil or sewing kit?) would have a context option - "Repair". Player selects that which opens game process as follows:
    1. Player then drops item on crafter for repair, opening a repair gump
    2. Crafter performs repair process on the item in the window

    Player can verify durability repairs, etc by hovering over the item. Gump closes when a) item is successfully repiared an player retrieves it or b) item breaks. In both cases the gump is then empty.

    This could be used as a method of having a crafter enhance an item as well. Same process basically.

    As for imbuing, who cares? The system as it is is broken because no crafters are needed. Durability items need to break or have a higher potential for breakage than they do now.

    My most radical preference is to eliminate PoF as a reward; eliminate repair deeds altogether. Requiring repairs to be done "the old fashioned way". Seriously. <shrug>

    All: Thanks for the discussions ... some good points have been made.
     
  46. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    the only problem i have with repair deeds is, that they can be made for only 5gold and a "pling" with a rusty hammer THAT is lame

    :lame:
     
  47. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I do? Really? Last time I checked, it wasn't me that brought Siege into this discussion...now was it?...la
     
  48. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    true true if you meen you didnt post the word siege...... But to me it turns into being about siege when players from that shard want to introduce some of there lame rules and limitations on the production shards , or try and compare siege appels to production oranges.. but maybe thats just me....

    to me you cant compare durabillity on a shard where your gear can be looted and stolen to shards where it can be insured
     
  49. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I'm not trying to compare them at all. I am talking from a perspective for UO as a whole. Yes, I know the game has leaned towards items. So? Would it be that bad if it leaned back away from them? I'm not saying that equipment isn;t important. I know it is. But it does the community no good if UO starts to have an end game like WoW and other games.

    If items break, players would need to replace them. They would be out hunting high end monsters or working within the community to get a crafter to create a piece of equipment to replace the broken one. It would be a never ending cycle. So what? If you need new equipment, it's not like it takes much to farm up new gold...la
     
  50. <nods emphatically> Yup ... and this is where I need people to start thinking. The game is unbalanced AWAY from crafting in general because of the historical turns in the updates.

    It needs to be leveled out ... and that is why my proposal ... to try for some of that.
     
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