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POLL for who out there would like to see the Stat requirement to effectively Parry be Removed?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Dan123The123Man, May 6, 2012.

?

How many of you out there would like to have the Dex requirement to effectively Parry be removed?

  1. Yes.

    20.3%
  2. No.

    64.1%
  3. Maybe.

    3.1%
  4. It doesn't matter to me.

    12.5%
  1. Dan123The123Man

    Dan123The123Man Lore Master
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    So i've been wondering for one, if they will ever remove the dex requirement to effectively parry with the parrying skill. I decided to make a poll, and I understand this may not be in the appropriate section. I am just wondering how many people would like to have the parrying skill back the way it used to (YEARS) ago where their was no stat (dex) requirement that's based on how effective you can parry.


    Vote Meanings:

    Yes - yes I would like to have the dex requirement REMOVED to parry effectively with parrying skill.

    No - I like how it requires 80 dex to effectively parry using the parrying skill

    Maybe - Basically, i'm on the fence and not sure whether it would be a good thing or bad to have or remove it.

    It doesn't matter to me - I don't use parrying skill anyway so who cares right?
     
  2. darkvulf

    darkvulf Adventurer

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    umm no, that would be over powered. obviously

    and if it didn't matter to you , you wouldn't be making this thread. :coco:


    :next:
     
  3. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    QFT
     
  4. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    no way, parry mages are nearly impossible to kill on a dexxer as is.
     
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  5. Dan123The123Man

    Dan123The123Man Lore Master
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    I didn't say if it mattered to me or not. The last option on the POLL is "it doesn't matter to me". My guess is that option is for those who don't care one way or the other. :owned:
     
  6. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    Since this is a public poll, it's a matter of a single click to see that so far you're the only person to have answered yes. Since you chose to bypass the "doesn't matter" option in favor of answering yes, it is in fact obvious that it does matter to you.

    :owned:
     
  7. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    DOH!!!

    :gun:
     
  8. Don't Tread on Me

    Don't Tread on Me Lore Keeper
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    ha ha ha. absolutely have to keep dex requirement. not only does it keep parry mages in check (ish)but also is a "realistic" requirement. some crusty ol' library geek mage would never be able to parry poo! have to have some sort of physical coordination
     
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  9. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I only don't like the stat requirement for parrying because it doesn't actually tell you in the game anywhere that you need 80 dex for parry (for it to work fully), it's a hidden game mechanic.

    I'd like all shields to say 'dexterity requirement 80'

    This is why this game is so hard for new players
     
  10. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I voted Yes, but from a PVM standpoint only. I hate those "hidden aspects" things. To be realistic, a minimum low dex could be required, just as a min. strength is on many items, to determine whether it will be in the equation, but should predominantly be skill based. The most agile aren't placed in a shield wall, tanks are - tanks don't have much dex, because it doesn't matter.
    EXCEPT when blocking with a weapon <-- requires high Dex ... so I think it's working pretty well as is.
     
  11. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Then shouldn't lower requirements work on lowering the requirements for using a shield?
     
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  12. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    And no, I don't think the requirement should be removed, just saying that if there is a requirement, that the lower requirements mod should affect the dex required for using a shield be the same.
     
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  13. Roland Of Gilead

    Roland Of Gilead Seasoned Veteran
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    sure we should and also let anyone cast spells without magery and use greater drags without taming...
     
  14. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    the lower requirements moderation is really never used, and should so then be removed.
     
  15. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    :p Roland - to funny but hit the nail right on the head.

    :rant2: Actually they should add str and dex requirements for weapons to offset the pathetic mage weapon gimpieness.

    Fencing - Dex 80 Str 60
    Macing - Str 80 Dex 60
    Swords would be variable to specefic weapons
    Archery - High dex and STR

    Smaller shields less dex perhaps but large shields should require some str.

    :mad: Mages need to have their wings clipped not catered to any more, sorry but you are barking up the wrong tree.


    :gun: Another in the category of some of the worst ideas ever!!
     
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  16. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    You're referring to your own idea, right? Because while Dan's idea might create some PVP imbalance, yours would pretty much ban new characters from using weapons. "Hey I just made a macer, time to grind out 20 or 30 strength so I can equip a mace!"
     
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  17. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    Sorry, this would give to much of an advantage to a parry mage. As it stands with 50 EP and greater dex pots the room is still there to make a near impossible to hit char. Add in this latest shield and a suit built around the RPD instead of LRC and you would have a absurd set up.
     
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  18. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    RPD doesn't work anymore, no dexxer even hits with physical damage now. But i'll agree it would give too much of an advantage to a parry mage. RPD should be Reflect Kinetic Damage.
     
  19. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    I liked playing parry mages, and i wouldn't mind it now. But even i know that it would be a bad idea to be able to just toss on parry skill and be set.
     
  20. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Ehh, that would also suck for some non-healing dexer varieties that use krysses, bokutos, etc... most 4/6 dexers even. On top of that, if mage weapons didn't exist templates would be pretty vanilla and most dexers would complain (because they couldnt disarm a mage technically). Think about how much it would suck on dexers if every mage you fought was scribe wrestle (disarming you) or parry mages. lol
     
  21. Dan123The123Man

    Dan123The123Man Lore Master
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    haven't been on in a few days, but i'm peeerty sure I didn't vote "yes" 11 times... So apparently it does matter to other people. Currently though, the majority of the people are for "no". It was just a fun poll, not something meant to be turned into a flame fest.
     
  22. Dan123The123Man

    Dan123The123Man Lore Master
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    Maybe the poll should have been about RPD being changed to RAD or RD? Reflecting All Damage or Reflecting Damage instead of Reflect Physical Damage. It sounds like a pretty unused stat, what's the point in leaving it the way it is when nobody uses it (to my knowledge) anymore? I dont know it still may not work cause then mages would complain (gaaah, i magic arrow or harm spam thi guy and im taking damage to!) lol. It's a no win situation.
     
  23. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    *facepalm*

    Yea, i'll run around in my 100% "reflect all damage" suit. that sounds awfully fun.

    RDP is actually useful now when you deck a suit on in it, especially when you have a thrower beating on you with a 100% phys weapon. But its not heavily used because its so easily negated.
     
  24. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    About the only templates this would really help would be mage or ninja/bushido templates. Mage wouldn't be that big of a deal because you'd have to sacrifice 100+ skill points to just be able to block people more. Ninja/bushido would just allow them a much larger mana pool to use and still be able to block effectively. Other than that, this isn't that big of a deal in my eyes. On another note, how abouts we start a poll about the toggle special/spell combo. That put the nail in the coffin for tank mages. One of the legendary templates of UO.
     
  25. Dan123The123Man

    Dan123The123Man Lore Master
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    To narrow it down red sky, and i'll tell ya now I didn't read ur entire post but honestly... Templates in UO are either Mage or Dexer, that's all there is to it. This parrying change In MY Opinion woudl allow there to be more versatility in templates. Tamers with parry, stealth ninja mage parry I dont know what else lol.


    Ok I just read your sentence about the tank mage and specials toggle. That would be a REAL nice change right there. The suggestion for the parrying was after considering the fact that well mages need some love when faced against gargoyles for example. You would not believe (or maybe you would) the amount of crying I hear in UO from people fighting gargoyle throwers. It's just surprising that nothings been done yet to counter or atleast create a balance so they aren't as "beefy" to so many.
     
  26. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Right....Yep it is a wasted mod if someone is running around with a 100% damage item but there is a fair amount of people who don't bother, archers are a good example of those that fall short in this area.
     
  27. funkymonkey

    funkymonkey Lore Keeper
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    Versatility you say? Adding toggled weapons specs like we could do before they took it out would allow more versatility then this silly change.
    Honestly "I" find DCI way more affective then parry, always have done.
     
  28. funkymonkey

    funkymonkey Lore Keeper
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    Doh just your post then skim the first part.

    But yer toggled specs is the way forward.
     
  29. Dan123The123Man

    Dan123The123Man Lore Master
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    wee gee wiz thats nice now aint it lol
     
  30. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    Well archers don't need a non 100% physical weapon because the quiver of blight takes off all the physical.
    Plus, hardly any hit actually gets reflected even when dexxers do use a physical weapon: lightning strike, nerve strike, deathstrike, bleed, AI to name but a few will not get reflected.
     
  31. Dan123The123Man

    Dan123The123Man Lore Master
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    aint that the ****in truth lol.
     
  32. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Hardly anyone uses those quivers as most people roll either the SSI cloak or the DCI quiver. I can't think of the last time in three years someone toggled up a LS. NS, DS and AI are more of a one shot deal but even those, save for AI which is direct damage, would actually reflect from the initial hit. Bleed you would still reflect the initial hit but the SPECIAL is not part of that. At 100% reflect a amazing amount of the damage is returned.
     
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  33. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    At the moment, there are people who do deal physical damage, but as soon as people start using RPD, people would not deal physical damage. Two things to remember, 1: you can enhance any weapon to split off some of the physical resist without fear of losing the weapon with the forged metal of artifacts.
    2: split resists doesn't count as a mod for imbuing as long as you craft the weapon with non physical resist prior to imbuing. Not sure if this is a bug/exploit.
     
  34. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    And if you have chiv you can not bother and cast cons...I'll hold my breath while the masses convert to RPD suits, the point was that you could make a nifty suit with this shield. It was not that RPD should be converted to reflect everything nor was it that there are 5+ ways to avoid the RPD issue. It was not that certain specials are different than others. It had nothing to do with the fact that Dan's sig is nearly three times the size of anything he writes.

    The same people who would bother to think about making a RPD damage suit are the same people who bother to burn 40 dull hammers making effective weapons. I'm not concerned with this becoming a bug issue, most people who play this game don't do so to "win".
     
  35. Dan123The123Man

    Dan123The123Man Lore Master
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    lol
     
  36. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I have a better idea -

    Remove the 80 Dexterity requirement.
    Then, change Parry's Dexterity requirement to scale the success rate with Dex, starting at the game's minimum Dexerity score (10), allowing lower dex people a chance to parry.
    However, the primarily non-weapon spellcasting skills (Magery, Spellweaving, Mysticism, and Necromancy) act as a negative modifier to Dexterity for purposes of calculating the success rate. Say, each point of a Spellcaster magic skill subtracting points from Parry skill, Dex stat, or a combination of both, for determining successful parry.
    Weapon-users with high Dex, and only having Chivalry, Bushido or Ninjitsu as a "spellcasting" skill (or having no casting skill at all) would get the full benefits of having Dex for Parry.

    Examples of how this might work.

    If a 1/1 ratio, then a 120 Magery would effectively have either a 10 Dex score for Parry calculations (if Dex is modified), or 0 Parry (if Parry is modified).
    If a 2/1 ratio, then having 120 Magery might reduce Dex by 60, Parry by 60, or maybe even BOTH by 60. (minimum 10 Dex, but Parry could go to 0)

    It wouldn't be any more complicated than current calculations (with the hidden 80 Dex stat requirement), and ensure that Parry is a skill for those engaging in melee as a primary attack form at any point in their training, not mages trying to be everything at once.

    Besides, Mages have their own defensive options already (Eval & Anatomy with a book in hand, or actually taking wrestling).
     
  37. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    If that's true, what is happening to me while getting sprayed by fire ants with fairy dragons around, they start coming after ME. First I thought it was a weapon special, but all I have to do is just stand there with it on my shield.
     
  38. I thought RPD was changed so that it still works, but you just weren't flagged as the aggressor if someone hit you first. No?
     
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  39. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I have parry on my tank mage and he does not have 80 dex. it seems to make no difference and he parry's a ton
     
  40. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    with base 10 dex chance to parry at 120 parry is 14%, what's being asked in this thread by the OP is for the full 35% block chance you get for having 80 dex....

    that's post hit-check block chance too, a mage with 120 eval and no wrestling carrying a spellbook already has only a 70% chance of being hit by a warrior with 120 weapons skill (HCI AND DCI discounted, as the warrior wearing any HCI would be countered by equivilant DCI on the mage, and this day in age both are going to be at the cap anyways, assuming both have 45+ though the numbers are the same). Add the block chance with the base 10 dex to that total hit chance is 60% (post-block)....so a full 120'd warrior fighting a mage with parry and no weapon/wrestle skill will whiff 3 times and be blocked once per every 10 swings....that's a pretty sad hit rate already against someone with no weapons skill....any halfway decent mage will be able to use the breaks in damage to EASILY heal to max already.

    If you're REALLY unlucky the parry mage has either wrestle or a mage weapon, in which case the hit chance drops to 43% (and again, this is AS IS with the block penalty for low dex)

    So the range right now for a parry mage is 43%-70% that they'll take damage from a full 120'd dexxer
    Remove the dex requirement to parry and that changes to 32%-50%....yeah, the max hit chance you'd have against a MAGE with no dex and no weapon/wrestle skills would be 50%...the only saving grace to this super low hit chance right now is that they need to sacrifice either some HP or mana (you know....kinda like how dexxers to hit faster need to sacrifice the same to be able to hit more often)....and these days most will be holding a mage weapon so look more towards the low number. Now with that in mind imagine the mages with that high of defense suddenly having 70 more stats to work with to spread between mana and HP (dex does little else but defense on a mage, so it would essentially be free to dump into more int/str). With that level of mana/hp on a mage you can barely hit even archers/throwers would be overwhelmed...and they're the only class of dexxer even really viable now as more than a kill assist or poisoner
     
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  41. Driven Insane

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    Doesn't everything you just said also require the mage to have Anatomy as well?
     
  42. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    no, i calculated based on 120 eval only, without joat bonus for anat (to be racially tolerant!). Using anat to boost to max the chances are the same as with wrestle or mage weapon (only difference is the anat bonus doesnt raise their hit chance as well and they can't use disarm special)
     
  43. Driven Insane

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    Ok, i didn't check myself, but wanted to clarify. :thumbup:
     
  44. Driven Insane

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    I'd rather they remove the -Mage Weapon property.

    Why that property was even added is beyond me. Giving mages a free 120 weapon skill allows to much into their templates.
     
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  45. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    apologies, i was talking about in pvp, i forget people play in trammel