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[POLL] What PVP system is best for Project:Gorgon?

Discussion in 'Project: Gorgon Discussion Hall' started by Cramit, Sep 26, 2014.

?

Which PVP system would you endorse to be implemented in Project:Gorgon?

  1. PVP Flag

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
  2. Permanent PVP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. PVP Server

    5 vote(s)
    25.0%
  4. Open PVP Zone(s)

    6 vote(s)
    30.0%
  5. Guild Wars

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Territory Control

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  7. Open PVP World

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
  8. PVP Arena's/Battlegrounds

    2 vote(s)
    10.0%
  9. Just show me the results!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Cramit

    Cramit Adventurer

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    There have been some discussions in the past few days and a bunch of times in the past, about the PVP options in this game. Below I have provided some links to the most current discussions that have been had.

    http://stratics.com/community/threads/is-there-any-pvp-ingame-now.321957/

    http://stratics.com/community/threads/project-gorgon-pvp.322090/

    (Although you can search in the forum for "PVP" and find some older threads as well)

    As some of the members, myself included, have suggested in these threads, that PVP is a MMO option that would work extremely well with this game. Overall, with the customization and plethora of skills to play with, PVP could be a very popular feature for Project:Gorgon.

    However, as this game is already an amazing PVE game as well as fosters a wonderful PVE experience, the thought of having a good PVP system that works with the game could help make this game a blockbuster. In my opinion, as long as we find a system that doesn't adversely effect the current PVE experience, Project:Gorgon could bring a large amount of players to it's gates. The key is "find a system that doesn't adversely affect the current PVE experience"!

    So the question is, what PVP system works the best for Project:Gorgon?

    I've created the poll, with descriptions below, to help the community vote on what they believe would be the best implementation of PVP for the game. This is a community question, whether you like PVP or not, would like everyone's thoughts and input.

    Some folks may have very original ideas or a combination of multiple different systems. As I have tried to make the poll as blanketing as possible, please choose the closest choice and post your thoughts below.


    1. PVP Flag - Player can turn off and on via some mechanic. (quest, potion, etc)
    2. Permanent PVP - Turn PVP on during character creation or item in inv when first logged in, a.l.a. EQ.
    3. PVP Server - Separate server with PVP Rule Set.
    4. Open PVP zone(s) - Single or multiple zone devoted to PVP with some PVE elements and risk vs reward system.
    5. Guild Wars - PVP only through declaring war on other guild, only affects the two guilds members in terms of pvp vulnerability.
    6. Territory Control - PVP zone with territory control points for different rewards. (Crafting/Drop rewards)
    7. Open PVP world - Entire world is PVP by default.
    8. PVP Arena's/Battlegrounds - PVP in instanced and qued based games of varying player sizes and game types.
    9. Just show me the results - Obvious, however also for people who are completely against PVP and couldn't deal with one of these options.


    (This poll is active for 7 Days)
     
  2. Cramit

    Cramit Adventurer

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    Here is an exert of what I have posted in one of the other threads that explains my opinion: (Making this tired me out :p )

    "
    My opinion on the whole matter basically breaks down to this. I would prefer to see the DAoC style of pvp. Make a zone or two with different structures to capture. Then allow guilds to capture them and fight over them in that zone. The zone would be completely open PVP at all times. Have mobs and maybe a dungeon or 2 there as well, so there are reasons to go in there other than just PVP.

    At this point, I think the question becomes, how do you make the risk vs reward system for that zone or 2 good enough to make it fun for PVP lovers as well as the casual PVP player who just wants to jump in at their leisure? I was thinking it could be tied to the structures or possibly just different drops rates of materials from mobs in the zone and any accompanying dungeons in the zone. For instance below I gave some examples of possible structures:

    Structures:
    Farm
    Mill
    Mine
    Castle
    Fort

    Maybe the castle and forts don't really offer any extra resources or easily attained resources but do offer merchants/crafting locations to be able to make things and sell. Probably also add some form of siege weapons into the crafting system and give the merchants specific things for those. Then you could allow the other structures extra resources or space to attain things, like the farm you can plant a couple fields and/or get increased amount of items from things you plant there. Maybe the mine and mill would have a lot of spawns of different wood and ore around them so if your hanging there, you can forage more items.

    I think a system like this would fit this game well. You could make PVP revolve around making things from crafting a little bit quicker as well as a place where guilds and players can fight each other with a system that feels like it is affecting the world. The one trick is to make it so that the PVE players don't feel required to go into the PVP area to progress and sometimes with increased resource gain in PVP areas, they feel that way. "

    The things I would add would be we need to have a good risk vs. reward system. We need the pvp to feel like it belongs, like it matters and/or affects the world, and that it's worth doing. However without making it or making it feel like it's necessary to do for PVE players. These are the Achilles heels of PVP and need to be solved before anything is done. Balancing of skills do to, but that is some what a on going process, however designing PVP to be more of a group process without zerging is a good way around that as well.

    Food for thought!
     
  3. Nuhaine

    Nuhaine Visitor

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    Cramit definitely touches on the style of PvP that I prefer. Goal-oriented PvP in an open world alongside PvE helps shift players away from mindless griefing. At the same time, I believe that PvP should be optional. I also believe that as Project Gorgon has few resources, and that making something so complex could take months or possibly the entire year. I think we should start with something simple, using existing mechanics.

    Have a zone where there are altars to pick a side. Whenever you enter that map, you spawn in the territory of that altar. PvP will act like a curse. You can have the curse, or not, but it will only affect you in situations related to that PvP goal. There could be a story associated with this, and plenty of PvE content. Cursed players cannot be buffed or healed by players without the same curse while they are present on the map. Certain NPC's on this map may or may not talk to you while you have a curse, depending on the side you chose. It is not possible to remove the flag, though switching sides is possible.

    Only people with the curse can gather certain items in this map. They can then sell these to crafters. Alternatively, they drop, albeit at a very small chance, from PvE mobs in this map. As an easy way to balance it until time is found for real balancing, I suggest having players take less damage from PvP sources while under this curse, as there are many builds at the moment which allow players to be felled in one or two hits.

    An ability for players to recall their grave as a hardcore player while on this map that requires taking up one of the curses to learn would be useful to prevent griefing. There should also be two safe zones where those who enter gain buffs that make them invincible to the other team, akin to Foul Air from the goblin dungeon.

    You can be a part of the world, see the fighting, and reap the benefits of this zone at least partially as a PvE player, while not being forced to participate.
     
  4. Shoeshine

    Shoeshine Visitor

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    Should be able to choose multiple suggestions here... Cause I want open PVP-zones with TC and Guild Wars for instance.
     
  5. eggsalicious

    eggsalicious Adventurer

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    Put the cart back behind the horse.

    ~L
     
  6. awollsd

    awollsd Adventurer

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    posted this on the other thread but I suppose this would be a better place.


    didn't read all the new replies I'm not on here long but I played a game before that did pvp really well....
    Basicaly it was open world pvp. every zone. (but there could be safe area's)
    if you killed a player you could get 1 of their items. (in that game you would get to choose 1 of 3 random items they had but it could be different)
    then if you killed a player it announced it in world chat that you are now tagged as a PK'er and the zone you are in.
    If a player killed a player while he was tagged as a PK'er they would drop all items they had in their invatory (again could be adjusted)
    IF a player killed a player while he was tagged as a PK'er they would not be tagged as a PK'er.
    IF the PK'er could keep from being killed for X time the PK'er tag would be removed.
    with this system you have rewards for pvp/killing a player. but you also have a huge risk so players have to decided if the reward/fun was really worth the risk. also with this system players are able to police the PK'ers and make sure they didn't farm lowbies and ruin the game for others.
    This system is also rather easy to implement. as just have to enable pvp everywhere (or in what ever zones you want) AND create Player Killer tag. and a code to not give the tag if the person killed had the tag. and a game announcement on player vrs player death.
    Now after this was done there could also become tiered ladder system tournement's/arena's and maybe guild wars later to come. but the above is a GREAT start.
     
    Shoeshine and happytr33z like this.
  7. eggsalicious

    eggsalicious Adventurer

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    I still think it's completely useless, and possibly even distracting, to discuss PvP at this stage. Also, I think Eric ignoring most of the 'copy other games' advice is precisely what makes this game great.
     
  8. awollsd

    awollsd Adventurer

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    I wasn't saying copy was giving it as an example of a successful pvp model. one that I and many others enjoyed a lot. eric could ofcourse change it to make it fit better with his ideas/the players desires.

    also this is an early alpha, a time to discuss idea's and thoughts about the game... how is it ever useless to discuss an idea? especialy one that is so important to the majority of mmo players. sooooo many mmo's succeed or fail simply because of their pvp system's but we shouldn't even discuss one here? come on now really....
     
  9. happytr33z

    happytr33z Visitor

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    well why don't you stop being distracted by it and go somewhere else? :p dont see why you have to rain on our parade
     
  10. eggsalicious

    eggsalicious Adventurer

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    'cause if it takes even one iota of resources away from the development of prerequisite systems, it's my parade too.
     
  11. eggsalicious

    eggsalicious Adventurer

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    PvP isn't important to the majority of MMO players. It's certainly gained in popularity in recent years, but it's still a niche market. There's nothing wrong about discussing it, I suppose, but the things being discussed are so far off and rely on the stabilization of so many things that it seems premature. When posts like these place unreasonable pressure on an overworked dev team, I'm going to voice my opinion that they ignore them.

    ~L
     
  12. Mendel

    Mendel Visitor

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    The poll definitely needs a 'No PvP' option. No vote here.
     
  13. Rickie Nixon

    Rickie Nixon Visitor

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  14. awollsd

    awollsd Adventurer

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    I do agree with you there that should be a vote option
     
  15. awollsd

    awollsd Adventurer

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    lol idk where've you been but it certainly has become very important to the majority of mmo players so important that games have died simply because of their failed pvp systems.. lol.. but that's a discussion that isn't needed here.

    my reply to you is more why try to mute and censor anyones suggestions and ideas. the devs have asked for these so you come and say they should just ignore them.. kk makes since mate. how about these pvp players go to the crafting thread and talk about how pointless and a destraction talking about that is.

    everyones honest suggestions are valid and should atleast be looked at shouldn't suffer threw someone who may or may not agree coming and basicly telling them to shut up and request the dev's ignore them...
     
    Cramit and Shoeshine like this.
  16. Aphrodite13

    Aphrodite13 Visitor

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    Imo, PvP is essential. Even someone (like me) who knows nothing about MMO's knows that.
    Even though not all players are PvP'ers, we could certainly use PvP to increase playerbase, which would be good.
     
  17. eggsalicious

    eggsalicious Adventurer

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    You're confused. That's to be expected; you've openly admitted you don't read. Nonetheless, the words 'majority,' 'mute,' and 'censor' don't mean what you think they mean. This poses a problem for me, given that I feel the need to make sense. I'll help you a bit 'cause I'm a warm and fuzzy kind of person: if you're presenting your opinion and I'm telling people to ignore it, neither of us has been censored or muted.

    You claim that PvP is important to a majority of MMO players which is absolutely false. A majority of MMO players across all games don't even participate in PvP. A majority of players believe the minority of PvPers ruin games by screaming loudest and most often and unduly influencing devs. The evidence is everywhere-- from the minority of people discussing is here (even though there are several identical threads LOL), to Eric stating on a few occasions it isn't the focus etc.

    Nobody is saying PvP isn't fun or that it shouldn't go in eventually, but if I made a post titled 'SUGGESTIONS FOR PG'S 3rd EXPANSION' it'd be equally premature. Let's keep the cart behind the horse.

    ~L
     
  18. Cramit

    Cramit Adventurer

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    Well I have remained silent for the weekend to give time for this thread to get a bit populated. First to all the folks looking for a "No PVP" option in the poll. It is something I considered putting in and actually remade the thread with out it for 1 specific reason:

    There is already PVP implemented in the Game.

    So basically, the No pvp boat has sailed. It was made apparent to the devs that folks would like this type of a system so it has already been implemented. IMHO, I don't know how anyone could be against PVP so much that they wouldn't even want a separate server for those folks, but hey, we all have different opinions. IMHO though, it seems very selfish.

    Now, to further show this point as well as to calm down the argument about how this conversation is too early to talk about or not worth talking about, here is Auriel on PVP:


    This quote is from here: http://stratics.com/community/threads/project-gorgon-pvp.322090/#post-2439575

    Now Auriel did state it is "very much in the air" however they already had been asked for a system and implemented one, as well as she stated her feelings for a bit more PVP options. If enough folks still feel a No PVP option is valid, even with it already implemented and a option to separate players based on PVP (separate PVP server), we can always remake the poll, no big deal.

    My entire intention is to figure out a system that would work without effecting the PVE experience. Typically this isn't possible, however, it is possible for the community to compromise on a solution to help the devs out. Personally, I am completely against separating the community via servers for PVP. Personally I think we can find something that would keep everyone together and keep the population higher, at least till the game gains more traction. However, I'm one person and we need to take everyone into consideration.

    I still like the idea of certain zones, maybe just make them OWPVP without any increase in resource gain or anything like that. Just places to go and fight, although I still think this would be under used even by pvp fans, cause most pvp fans that I know, that would like this game, aren't 13yro's that just wanna grief/camp/gank, they want to fight for a purpose.

    And even though this isn't the "focus" doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss this, it's another feature, much like crafting, resource gathering and the like.

    *Edit* - I did forget to mention about selecting multi-options in the poll. Some of the options already are combinations of them and the reasoning I had to not make multiple selections was for folks to select the system closest to the type of system they would like. That way it would be easier to see which system type was in the lead. Maybe this is a misstep on my part, if so my apologizes.
     
    #18 Cramit, Sep 29, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2014
  19. Rickie Nixon

    Rickie Nixon Visitor

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    Interpreting to suit your own argument much?
     
  20. Cramit

    Cramit Adventurer

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    Do you even have something constructive to add or argue or can we expect only a word or phrase response? Would love to hear any actual opinions/ideas/thoughts you have on the subject..
     
    awollsd likes this.
  21. Rickie Nixon

    Rickie Nixon Visitor

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    So long as I don't need to PVP then I don't really mind what the system is. This tends to be one of the areas the vocal minority drown out the silent majority with the effect that people drift away from the game.

    Personally I don't class PVP as a major part of the game and more an irritation than fun.
    Rickie Nixon, Sunday at 9:59 AM


    As I posted in the Ask the Dev forum before this poll which, in my view, is clearly biased.
     
  22. Cramit

    Cramit Adventurer

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    Well I musta missed this post or forgot about it, so glad to read it. My apologizes, I tried to make this as unbiased as possible, but I guess not having a "No PVP" option is the deal breaker there. Although I think your above post shows that you still had options you could have chosen that would fit your criteria without breaking away from your opinion but either way, good to know.

    Being a biased post or not, that's why you can still reply to the thread and explain why you think it's biased or not worth anything.
     
  23. Rucati

    Rucati Visitor

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    I voted for PvP flag, but I'd also throw a vote for arenas/BGs if I could. I think they both serve a purpose, and they're both very useful and fun to have. But they do require vastly different balancing, and instanced arenas/BGs would require a large time investment since separate zones would need to be created and a queue system would need to be added, while open world PvP would be a fair deal simpler. So maybe just start with unrated open world PvP and then work on other stuff over time, and on top of that you could also work on balance (because let's be real balancing this game for PvP would be a nightmare) and then have rated arenas/BGs down the line with a competitive ladder for people interested in that.
     
  24. Cramit

    Cramit Adventurer

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    I think you really hit on a great point. Balancing is a major issue and you wouldn't want to balance for PVP and have it affect PVE, which in a open world system, it most likely would unless you make all skills different when entering a pvp zone. Very good point.