1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Poor Johnny Is Bored

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Llewen, Feb 16, 2010.

  1. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    *** Please note that the events in this story are fictional, and any resemblance to persons living or dead is strictly coincidental. ***

    Poor Johnny is bored.

    Can you tell me why Johnny is bored?

    Here are the facts, you be the detective.

    Johnny wants to be an Olympic athelete. He's good at sports, but not that good, and he never seems to be able to stick at anything long enough to become that good. One thing he is good at though is video games. "Hmmmm..."

    His strange old uncle bought him a game for Christmas, and well, he never really tried it, because it came from his strange old uncle, but who knows? He's bored, and he doesn't want to think too hard, and there it is, sitting right in front of him.

    "Ultima Online - Stygian Abyss"

    It looks like it's a make believe world, but he doesn't really want to play make believe. He heard somewhere that most of the people playing games like this one are strange old men like his uncle, maybe he could have some fun pwn'ing old "fatties" like his uncle? His uncle isn't really fat, but he heard that most of the people that play games like this weigh at least 300 pounds and aren't any taller than 5'8". Maybe he could pwn them all so hard they would all start crying and quit...

    So Johnny opens up an account, and pays for it with his mother's credit card, his mother doesn't say "no" to him very often, and he takes his first few steps into this new world.

    Oddly enough, he makes some friends, and his new buddies seem to be an awful lot like him. They invite him into their "vent" server give him his first pile of gold and some "arties" and start teaching him how to play the game. I won't bore you with all the details of his first few weeks in Sosaria, so let's skip them.

    It's three months later. Johnny is "pwn'ing noobs" just like he hoped he'd be. He's spent the last three months doing everything his new friends told him to do. He trained up all his "leet skillz", he even found some cool programs and "scripts - shhh!" that will do all the boring stuff for him. He's got mounds of gold, all the phattest lewt in the game and he wins most of his fights.

    When he wants to learn something new, he finds a cool script, downloads it, and it does the hard work for him while he's at school, or sleeping. And he started doing a whole lot better in "peeveepee" when he found those scripts that would drink his "pots" for him when he reached half health, or got poisoned.

    Johnny didn't really have to work hard for anything in the game, and he's pretty convinced the game is easy. In fact Johnny didn't really have to work for much of anything in the game, and he's one of the best in the game. After a couple of weeks in the game he bought a veteran account, so he didn't even have to play for a few years before he got all the benefits of being a long term subscriber to the game.

    His buddies taught him all kinds of tricks, and some of them are just hilarious. He can just imagine the looks on the faces of all those fat thirty year olds playing in their mother's basements. And he really feels like he belongs. In fact, he looks exactly the same as all his "friends". In fact he and all his guild mates are so good at this easy game that he almost feels like an Olympic athlete... almost...

    But there's a problem.

    Poor Johnny is still bored.

    Can you tell me why?
     
  2. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,043
    Likes Received:
    577
    Shan't tell you why!. That would be too easy.
     
  3. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    Because he never played the game.
     
  4. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,889
    Likes Received:
    5,172
    If you never work for anything you never experience a feeling of achievement when you gain it.
     
  5. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    Messages:
    8,921
    Likes Received:
    377
    he doesn't win, he doesn't finish, he doesn't realize that it's all about the journey
     
  6. Stomp

    Stomp Guest

    Johnny is bored because he is sat in Navrey for 15 minutes waiting on respawn to get his 3 minute peevee'em fix.
     
  7. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    The idea for this thread came to me after someone asked for advice on training taming on the taming forum. Probably the fastest way to train taming at higher levels is to tame bulls until your eyes melt in their sockets and you start singing Julie Andrews' songs - even if you don't know who Julie Andrews is.

    But a couple of us gave him what I thought was some really good advice. You can still get decent gains in taming by actually doing something that is challenging, like taming dragons and rune beetles and donating them to the zoo, or taming cu sidhe while you search for that elusive blaze.

    You look at all those people whacking away at Golems for twenty four hours straight, and I'm not pointing the finger here, I've done it myself, but I'm not going to complain about how bored I am after doing that because I know I made that choice. I could have just as easily gone and done something far more fun, and still gotten decent gains. They wouldn't have been as fast, but the "journey" would have been a whole lot more interesting.

    I've said this before in exasperation when I read some post where someone is complaining about how bored he is, but honestly, if you stop waiting until you are invincible to play the game, and actually play the game to get there, you learn a lot more and you have a hell of a lot more fun while you do it.
     
  8. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Because he has not discovered wow with thousands of quests and pvp ladders?
     
  9. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    Right, "thousands of quests". You get to visit a thousand different npc's and do the same basic two or three quests over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... again... Yep and pvp where thousands of players play the exact same dozen (and I may be being generous here) characters against each other, with exactly the same equipment, in exactly the same way.

    If you want to discuss another MMO, perhaps you could have the courtesy to go to a forum dedicated to that MMO and post there. Obviously Blizzard has done some things right with WoW, but this forum is about UO, not WoW...
     
  10. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Hey you asked why he is bored and expected a serious answer?
     
  11. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,959
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Boredom in my opinion is closely linked to "goals"... dependent as well on what you want out of the game.

    So you want to be the "L33T" PeeVeePee'r..... Perhaps Johnny goes about it with the wrong idea.... sometimes the "challenge" of PeeVeePee is in doing it without the cheats and scripts and trying to beat the cheat... much more exciting and fun.

    Kinda like taming... now it seems that the "L33T" way to tame is to use honor.... so the monster can't hurt you... funny that takes all the excitement out of the tame if you ask me....

    Good old fashion skill sometimes is far more fun.

    I've whacked my share of golems.... but the sad fact is I've found that actually hunting even if it's just lizard men in despise is FAR more lucrative and actually faster than whacking a golem.... though you can't and shouldn't go AFK while your doing it.... like many do while golem whacking.

    In my opinion people who spend 90% of their time AFK while they work their skills are the same ones who are often bored, have zero attachment to their characters, and oft times don't understand those who do enjoy the game or feel and attachment to their character.

    I think it's those formative hours spent working skill that gives you a feel for your character....

    But then I play for the RP... as I want to experience everything my MMORPG has to offer...

    I think those that are "Bored" need to look at the game in a whole new light.... there are a million things to do in UO..... unlike many MMO's.... UO renders itself best to the RPG aspect.

    I don't find doing NPC quests to be role-play....

    Beyond RP there is merchant trade, collecting, gardening, design, deco, community, the challenge of the peerless..... tons and tons of things one can do ingame... I think though often people become bored because their goals are too narrow and they often take things to the max.

    Instead of PvM with the "L33TEST" suit..... try to PvM in GM armor.... put some excitement back into your game by adding to the challenge.... sometimes having more and more UBER monsters isn't the key to challenge.

    What it all boils down to in my eyes..... UO is what YOU make it... if you make it BORING then it will be. It's totally and 100% up to the player don't blame it on the game... rethink your goals.
     
  12. Faerunner

    Faerunner Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    4
    Johnny is bored because his parents don't interact with him and let him spend all his time playing UO, pwning n00bs and using their credit cards for subscription fees.

    Clearly, if Johnny's parents had taught him how to set goals and work for them, he'd be a much better person and enjoy the game more, too! :D

    :stir:
     
  13. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    You've hit a very large nail squarely on the head. I posted about this on the taming forum, but recently I rejigged my suit and template and ended up having to retrain five points of taming. I've had the most fun retraining those five points that I have had in years in UO. I'm training intensively, but I'm actually playing the game and pursuing multiple goals while I do it, and most importantly I'm having fun.

    And yes not being bored is most often about the goals you set for yourself, and how you go about achieving those goals.
     
  14. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    I get the whole "journey" thing, and agree with it to a point.

    But, the more you make the same journey, the less involving it becomes. You know the landmarks, the best paths, and there's nothing to keep you engaged.
    It's a fundamental principal of "fun".
    To use WAR as an example, since for all its differences, there are commonalities between levelling up and training a skill in UO.
    The first time I trained a character, it was fun - the quests were new, and I got to explore new areas.
    The second time I trained a character, I could do the quests without thinking, because I remembered them.
    The fifth time, I'd be counting down the levels until I could reach tier 2, for keep defences.
    When you've learned all there is to about a process, there's no fun in it any more, just rote action.
     
  15. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    The correct title of this thread should be poor johnny is pathetic:

    1) pathetic that he puts down those older than him

    2) pathetic that he has to get his mommy to pay his way in life

    3) pathetic that he does not want to put in the work to build his characters
    up the right way (a result of no.2)

    4) pathetic that he needs a script to cure/heal himself and fly around the screen like superman.

    5) lastly pathetic that winning by cheating gives him a high sense of self esteem.

    FAIL...
     
  16. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    I understand what you are saying, which is why I encourage people who feel like they have done everything, and there is nothing new, and nothing is a challenge anymore, to go do something else. Just don't burn your bridges, or sell your account to Johnny, because if you really loved the game at some point you are going to want to come back.

    This thread wasn't about people like you. It was about people who have never actually played the game, who have always taken shortcuts, and whose first activity in the game is to get someone to teach them all the shortcuts. When people like that complain about being bored, it's like listening to nails on a chalkboard, and it's their own fault.

    And you and I know there are plenty of people like that, all over the net, and it seems like as the years go by they become more and more the accepted norm.
     
  17. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,525
    Likes Received:
    2,913
    While I get the point of your story, and agree to a point I think it over looks some realities. The main reality is that UO stopped being about the adventure about 7-8 years ago. Uo like most games now a days is designed and implemented for the achievers, not the explorers, and of all of the achieving to be done 95% starts when your skills are set. I for one think that's ok. I have nothing against people buying skills, because skills aren't what they once were. It's not like fighting plain trolls and ogres satisfies anyone like It used to satisfy us back in '98.
    Honestly I've been thinking for a long time that someone should break out and develop a game with limited or no character advancement, something focused on the experience rather than the grind (be it the skill grind or the gear grind).
     
  18. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    Someone owes me 3 minutes of my llife back for reading this.
     
  19. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    I see what you are saying, but myself, I wouldn't be interested in a game with no character development model. The game has definitely changed since '98 but there is still plenty of adventure to be had. As I posted above, I recently changed my suit and had to retrain 5 points of taming as a result, and it has led to the most fun I've had in UO in years.

    A game like UO is what you make it. If you make it a grind, it will be a grind. If you make it all about number crunching, it will be all about number crunching. If you don't use your imagination, the game will be a wasteland. If you make it an adventure, it will be an adventure to you.

    MMO's aren't like movies yet, and too many expect them to be. MMO's still require the use of imagination to gain any real creative benefit from them. So many of us expect to be spoon fed our entertainment, and don't understand that there is still an element of the old pen and paper RPG's in MMO's. If you don't bring an active imagination to the table, you won't see much of anything that is really interesting in the game.
     
  20. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,525
    Likes Received:
    2,913
    No, no, there's totally adventure to be had... I mean theres adventure to be had in monopoly if you try hard enough. I just mean the game is no longer designed for it. It's become designed with clear and distinct goals that really take little more than an application of time.

    That was also always a problem with skill gain in my eyes. Before the item grind came around, people could go out hunting because it was power hour, or before that hideous idea, everyone was macroing up their skills etc... Thats why I think a game where characters were generated, and didn't necessarily last long, and the focal point of the game WOULD be the world, and the exploration, interaction, and adventure. It wouldn't be for everyone, and it would have to be really well developed, but I think thats the kind of game I could really get into.
     
  21. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,525
    Likes Received:
    2,913
    No, no, there's totally adventure to be had... I mean theres adventure to be had in monopoly if you try hard enough. I just mean the game is no longer designed for it. It's become designed with clear and distinct goals that really take little more than an application of time. Like pnp games... those ARE designed for your creativity. I'm not saying UO has none of that because of course it does, but thats not the path its going down from a design perspective. But then again, no one really even seems to want that sort of thing anyway. People are very much into collecting, grinding, accomplishing clear set objectives... and I don't mean to be condescending, I like these things myself, come see my house if you want proof. It can be very satisfying.

    That was also always a problem with skill gain in my eyes. Before the item grind came around, people could go out hunting because it was power hour, or before that hideous idea, everyone was macroing up their skills etc... Thats why I think a game where characters were generated, and didn't necessarily last long, and the focal point of the game WOULD be the world, and the exploration, interaction, and adventure. It wouldn't be for everyone, and it would have to be really well developed, but I think thats the kind of game I could really get into, a real functional world. Like UO was once planned to be.
     
  22. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    I think the majority of us can agree...we all worked skills the "right" way at one stage or another.

    I for one worked taming to 110 the proper way, i was out taming everything looking for my perfect pets and gaining as i went.

    I beat on the hardest monster i could take while searching for the elusive item i need and gathering gold.

    I crafted and crafted trying to fill all those bods and get that elusive hammer.

    All of those where fun at the time...now though, ive worked them...im sure as hell going to beat on a golem or tame bulls.

    The reason is, i now have no need to do the things that made gaining fun.

    I have no need to find the ultimate pet...GD's put an end to that.

    I have no need to find that ultimate ring...Imbuing put an end to that

    I have no need to a) raise crafting (done once) or find the hammer...once again imbuing has put an end to that.

    Thats what Jonny missed and that is what UO has taken from him.
     
  23. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

  24. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    There's some truth there, but it isn't the whole story. It is still possible to find items and craft items with runics that are better than imbued items. They are just very hard to find. And contrary to popular belief the greater dragon is really only the best choice for pets in a few specific contexts. Most of the time some other pet or combination of pets is a better choice.

    More worrying for me is the fact that since greater dragons were introduced the devs have gone to great lengths any time they added content to make sure that most of the highest end content was completely inaccessible to tamers. They don't seem to target any other template that way. However that is totally OT for this thread. :)
     
  25. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    3,283
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the best part of all this is watching little johnny try to play when that script program wont run. johnny fall down and go boom...with subsequent rage log to follow.

    point is...

    dont be a dirty johnny?
     
  26. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    Messages:
    8,921
    Likes Received:
    377


    that line, on top of your sig, has made my day :)
     
  27. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Some truth??

    Unfortunatly it is sadly all truth!

    GD's have bred lazy tamers, i myself wont run with one unless under extreme circumstances...hell i even 2maned a navery with a beetle bake.

    And while yo are right...there is almost no point making better gear, the stuff made from imbuin is beyond anything you will likely need.
     
  28. TandaBSK

    TandaBSK Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    121
    The sad truth is Johnny is beyond the help of anyone, besides himself. Try as you might you can not teach an impatient, immediate gratification seeking individual the satisfaction and accomplishment of completing or achieving goals through your own effort.

    I've been at this game awhile, I've worked GM to Legendary mules on 4 shards now all without the benefit of even UO Assist, which I own but rarely ever turn on. The greatest sacrifice to owning the knowledge I did this, I've made is, I now use my more veteran characters to help tweak my new ones, by buying supplies in bulk rather than working and selling to npc's all the way through. I still get a little smile when I see my next blue skill gain roll up my screen!

    I've never been much for hunting, that's me. I don't come to UO for that adrenaline rush, sweaty palms, heart thumping feeling that some get from trying to stay alive or be the last man standing. I do find a lot of fun and entertainment in getting involved with groups who give back to their shards. In hosting, volunteering, planning and donating time, gold and prizes. I love seeing if we can put together an event that is hard enough to require some thought and team work or trivia that is challenging enough it takes more than 2 seconds to answer or find it in google! HA!

    Interacting with fellow players both in the context of my character and outside of that. Its awesome (and Yeah I know the other person could be full of bull pucky) to learn about other places in the real world, visit music, websites etc that expand my knowledge of things beyond where I live.

    If you can find a few friends, or a good guild and the guild can utilize the skills of each player to the fullest it can go a long way toward making this more fun. Having a purpose, being an intregal part of something will go much further than being completely self sufficient and a loner. I don't have the ability to be a loner because I dislike hunting ( I can manage in little bits if I have to) but I'd rather swap skills with other players. You like to hunt, I like to craft and shop.. if you gather me 'x' yards of barbed I'll do 'y' for you. I search the realm for that illusive power scroll or whatever.

    Because once you've reached LEET... and your at the top where do you go?
    No where to go but down darlin' like a fancy Porsche all polished and ready to run with no place to go or no purpose.
     
  29. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    I have to agree with this again, at least in part. Although before the greater dragon it was the cu sidhe, so I'm not sure that much has changed. People will most often take the path of least resistance, even if it is the less profitable path. But for advanced tamers, the best choice is rarely the greater dragon.
     
  30. Faerunner

    Faerunner Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    4
    I'm quite happy fighting ogres, thanks. :p My character even at GM swords is still more fun to play fighting lesser spawn than worrying about arty drops in dungeons. Then again, I don't play for the end-game. I play for the gardening, deco, etc. I still take shortcuts - like buying stone tables instead of trying to grind to GM mining. Then again, the shortcuts I take allow me to play the game at my own speed. Only one of my 6 characters on Chesapeake is GM'd, and she's still got a few tenths of a point to go in Chiv and healing. I just don't care to grind. She gains during events when she uses the skills, and my alternate characters gain when I decide to play them, and it's made the game last longer and be far more enjoyable for me - it also ensures that I depend on others sometimes, so I am forced to get into the community and explore shops, ask for help with events, etc.

    If you want experience and no real characterization, check out the Tale of Tales' "game" Endless Forest. It's sadly been paused in development due to lack of funding but it's still an amazing game world and the developers are still actively pursuing ideas for the game as far as I know. Other than that, I know of no other game where achievement of goals is not the foremost ideal of the game-world.
     
  31. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    Those aren't shortcuts. You still earned the gold you are spending in a legitimate way. That's one of the things that makes UO such a great game, if you don't enjoy some part of the game you can make gold in a way you do enjoy and use that gold to pay someone else to play the part of the game you don't enjoy, don't have time for, or simply haven't made a priority. That's not taking shortcuts.

    The shortcuts I am referring to are exploits, or the use of illegal third party applications.
     
  32. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
  33. Faerunner

    Faerunner Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    4
    As easy as certain third-party apps would make it to GM my crafter.... I did carpentry to the 90s with easels. :D

    I'm not one for cheats like that, at least until my wrists start falling apart. So far, I've only had a little pain...
     
  34. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    3,283
    Likes Received:
    0
    you are very welcome. ;)
     
  35. You don't need a destination or a purpose. The fun is all in the drive. Just pick a direction and go. :thumbup1: