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Powerscrolls, oh the injustice!

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by Trebr Drab, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Isn't UO the game with freedom as it's foundation?

    So why then do some want to force game play onto all players by:
    A) forcing players to either face Gankers to get the most important items in the game
    B) forcing players to group, when some want to play solo

    ???

    Now, I can see either of these cases for rewards that don't affect character advancement (including items), or even for a greater chance at advancement rewards. But I have a thing against being forced into game play that some players simply don't want.

    I mean, isn't UO supposed to be the anti-WoW?

    I have an even bigger thing against players who want these aspects for their own selfish gain. I suspect there's a lot of other gamers who feel the same way, mostly ex-UOers.
     
  2. BlackMagus

    BlackMagus Guest

    IMHO b) doesn't seem to be such a bad option.

    And you forgot:

    c) Farm gold while playing solo, and just buy these items.

    So in the end you have complete freedom of choice. Only thing you do not get:

    d) Overly comfortable way to access most powerful item in game.

    ;-)
     
  3. No, UO isn't supposed to be the anti-WOW, UO was created quite some time prior to WOW and is nothing to do with it.

    The most important items in the game are only available in Fel? News to me, the only thing that isn't available in a Tram rule set facet is powerscrolls/stat scrolls, every other artifact or reward system is available in Tram rule set facets.

    Tram and its other facets came about after Fel so its more a case of Fel players being forced to play Tram than the other way around.

    Its interesting that you cite you have a thing against people who want things for their own selfish gain, when thats pretty much all your post is about, you wanting powerscrolls.

    Even with all that aside, you're not forced to group to get powerscrolls, if I can get them solo theres no reason why other people can't (especially with that huge wealth of artifacts available out of Fel).
     
  4. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    Of course they could always just impliment a policy where the 1st of each month every active char would get a gift box and each box would have a chance of containing a powerscroll, stat scroll, doom artifact, SOT, or a replica. If people don't want to wait a month for the next handout they could always do champ spawns or go to Doom. Of course red chars would only get candy canes and cards expressing how much the dev's love them.
     
  5. Or they could just leave things the way they are since there's nothing wrong with what we currently have...
     
  6. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Except what I mentioned. Oh, that's right, another option is to pay other players for powerscrolls...which lead to my last comment about selfishness.

    And no, Lord god, it's not about me wanting powerscrolls. It's about me wanting players to not be forced into PK traps that feed the PKers in gold and loot, and actually put Trammies into the position of slave labor for PKers.

    Can you imagine that? UO actually tells players that they must work for PKers if they want to advance to the highest levels by going to specified places, working the spawn tiers up, and letting PKers come and take it all away...or pay them anyways. And that sucks, and is a lousy way to do business.
     
  7. Come to origin or a smaller shard and farm away

    but i get feeling that even if you did a spawn and got scrolls you would complain when the 120 magery you wanted didnt fall into your pack
     
  8. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Not true. ("forgetaboutit")
     
  9. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    At least others see what I am posting about. And you are right it is for their own selfish gain, the only reason some people dont want this is for easy pvp kills and to keep the monopoly on the PS market.

    Neither of which I am involved with, neither of which would bother me in the slightest if they were changed.

    On the other hand some of my guild mates might be upset lol.
     
  10. LibraII

    LibraII Adventurer
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    I Honestly can't decide if this is a serious post, but I'll respond as though it is.

    NO-ONE is forcing you to do anything. If you want to do a champhunt, then you do one! If not, that is your choice.

    If you want a specific Powerscroll, ie +15 Meditation, you'd be doing Champs for weeks to get one. UO has the best economy in any game. People do champs and sell scrolls. In an economic sense this is known as providing a service. A service that YOU as the consumer chose to utilise or ignore.
    Does your Government force you to buy milk at your supermarket by not making it free? NO, a farmer produces it and sells it to make a living.

    UO has a diverse economy, there are hundreds of ways to make a living (earn gold). It doesn't make people greedy or selfish. At some point in time you MUST have bought or sold something, how would that differ to the Powerscroll situation?

    I guess the point I am trying to make is:
    UO has many options and ways to play, don't whine about one you dislike just because it makes you spend a little gold!!
     
  11. Yes it is.

    Players are not forced into Fel. Players are forced into Tram.
     
  12. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    110 Powerscrolls can easily be obtained, even by the casual player.

    120 Powerscrolls are clearly overrated. There are other things which are much more important in PvP than 120 skill.
     
  13. Which would be correct if I'd ever so much as even seen a champ spawn to get scrolls to sell, but since I never have, you're wrong. There's no selfishness involved. Quite the opposite actually. I just happen to recognize the fact that PvP'rs deserve a reward that is unique to their playstyle just like every other one has.

    It seems the only selfishness that's happening is coming from those that want to take away from another playstyle "just because".
     
  14. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    No one wants to "take away", they want to add to another.

    Whats the big deal? Its not like any of us who goto Fel would be losing anything, quite the opposite, we would be gaining serious pvpers not just cannon fodder who are squishy to pvp.

    Everyone always says if you dont want to goto Fel you dont have to. Well I further that statment by saying putting PS in Tram wont hurt Fel at all. If you dont want to do Champs in Tram you dont have to, you can continue to do them in Fel. No one would be forcing anyone to do champs in Tram, just the same way no one is forcing them now to do champs in Fel. If this was added neither side would be forced to do something they dont want to. Right? Isint that what you are saying? Dont want Tram playstyle forced and dont want pvp playstyle forced? So why not just put PS on both facets?

    If you truely care about playstyle and dont want anyone to be forced into a certain kind, would this not be effective?

    If this was put in, answer me this...

    Would anyone be forced to goto Fel?
    Would Anyone be forced to goto Tram?

    Well if neither side is being forced then where is the problem? Its helping a big part of the community. Believe it or not, its the Trams subscriptions that keep this game up and running. Dont blidfold yourself trying to believe otherwise.
     
  15. 'This' being what? The OP of this thread didn't suggest anything. He just asked some rhetorical (sounding) questions about UO's 'fairness' not with any actual interest in the answers mind you, just for the hope of everyone agreeing.
     
  16. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    Im sure you know what this is...
     
  17. I do. That doesn't mean everyone who reads here will.
     
  18. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I've gone back and forth on this issue, myself.

    My public posts have been mostly on your side, at least as far as your point A goes, but now that there's more and more of my fellow Trammies going public (and thank you everyone btw!!!) I might moderate my public stance a bit to reflect my more complex private thoughts.

    (Granted, when I have done this on EA's Focus Group boards, I have been flamed by Fellies every bit as much as I am when I take a hard line, which is highly amusing.)

    Either way....You should be aware that your two arguments are very, very distinct from one another.

    In an MMORPG, there is every reason to expect that there will, and should!, be some content in the game that cannot be handled solo. Remember that one of the Ms stands for Multi-player. And I think that power scrolls and artifacts are among those items that we should expect to not be able to solo our way to. Too much in this game is solo-able. Especially, in fact almost exclusively, if one is a Necromancer-Samurai of some kind.

    That is, I would argue, a separate issue entirely to the issue of if we should be forced to either participate in or support the PvP alternative lifestyle.

    Your point A is, I would suggest, arguable. Your point B is, I would suggest, not arguable. Firstly because as stated above, why would one expect that all content in an MMO was solo-able. And secondly, as others have pointed out, you can get power scrolls by playing solo even now. You just have to get them from another player with funds earned from the content you soloed.

    -Galen's player
     
  19. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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    Wheres the option to solo spawns yourself for powerscrolls?
     
  20. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    The only reason this thread is here is that the OP got punked in spiels and rants.

    The fact of the matter is, people choose their style of play. Each choice has its benefits and its costs. The choice to NOT engage in PvP or even to be at risk of engaging in PvP has the direct consequence of NOT getting the powerscrolls.

    All this thread has accomplished is proving that someone is dissatisfied that there is a limitation on their playstyle, and they want to cry and fuss. I'm running out of Kleenex here trying to dry those tears.

    The simple fact is Power Scrolls come from Fel. Either do what it takes to earn them, or do what it takes to pay/trade for them.

    There was a great response on spiels and rants laying out a nice roadmap on how to win a spawn. To make a long story short, all you really need to do is either change your play style to accomplish obtaining them, or don't. My sympathy meter has hit bottom for your self imposed "plight".
     
  21. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I'd argue you shouldn't be able to.

    Having said that, under the current rules you actually can, you just have to be at the top of your game and not get raided.

    Or only be raided by people you can kill by yourself.

    -Galen's player
     
  22. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    I posted under stupid! ^ Gowron that is...
     
  23. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    HEY!!!!

    Oh. Ok.

    -Galen's player
     
  24. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Just my 2 cents:

    Without both Fel and Tram, UO would likely cease to exist. While I believe that a majority of players reside in trammel, there are enough players that live in felucca that without it, UO would likely fold. And for the record, I spend a vast majority of my time in Trammel.

    However, I will venture into felucca to try to hit a couple of the champ spawns. I have never been raided, however I have seen red characters there (as well as fellow blues) all working to advance the spawn. I have also spent an entire spawn alone. Just me and the spawn.

    My personal opinion is that the higher level powerscrolls should spawnin fel. After all, there is a a greater risk in obtaining them, and that risk deserves a greater reward. However, I think that tram side also deserves its own exclusive drops, which it does have. Both sides are dependant upon the other for various items.

    I think it is as simple as that.

    Now....to get this off my chest.

    Trammy carebears and Felly L33T babies - - quite your whining. If you want something go and get it. All this crying about they have this and we don;t and all that is, frankly, quite lame. If you want something bad enough, go get it. IF you want it bad enough you will. If not, then crawl back into whatever hole you popped your head out of and stay there.

    As I said, I am a trammy, so all you trammies out there I deal with it and so can you. And for you L33T PvPers out there...This is a game. You can take your whinings about me being a carebear and stuff it. I spent too much time in RL PvP to really give a damn about your INGAME PvP L33Tness. The adrenaline rush of fel doesn't even register compared to that (and I am damn sure I didn't get any powerscroll or replica drops in Panama, Somalia, Iraq or Afghanistan)
     
  25. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    I always love these "whoa is me" type posts with regards to scrolls.

    I will point out the "counter" argument. What about people that don't want to do events, peerless, or doom? What is the answer most people are going to give who are complaining about scrolls: "go buy it" or "you can do the <fill in action>".

    I'd say there is a nice bit of hypocrisy going on with regards to any items whether scrolls, arties, or what not.

    I see no problem with the current system ESPECIALLY since they've put scroll binders in.
     
  26. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    Interesting. Care to elaborate on what was stupid, or why I am? Otherwise, I'd be inclined to think that you are less than dumb for making that declaration without any evidence.
     
  27. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    Quite true, though you said it alot more elloquently than I did. Go Navy!
     
  28. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    That's ok but not for things required for character advancement. Rares? Yes, make them Fel/Tram specific. Colors, special looking gear, sure.

    But when it comes to a player's ability to advance his characters, players should not be forced into any style of game play, in any way.

    Someone up there said I didn't offer a fix. I have in other posts, but it's fair to expect it here too. So here it is.....

    Get ready to have a double whopper with cheese f!t, again, selfish players of I-want-I-want.

    Powerscrolls = player skills and advancement. They should not exists as an item. When a GMed player hits a skill gain in the GMed skill, they should have a small chance to unlock the ability to advance to 105. And at that point another small chance to go to 110, and so forth.

    Actually, adding skills over 100 messed up balance, should have never been done in the first place. But now that it has, you can't go back.

    *waits for a ton of furtile dirt to fall on his head*
     
  29. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I, as the OP and one of those you are accusing of hypocrisy, have also made numerous posts about overpowered and unbalancing items. As well as the need to be a heavy powergamer to be competitive. This is all bad for UO as a game.

    In all my posts over these issues, I keep running up against the same kinds of opposition, those who want to maintain the status quo because they succeed so well at it. At the expense of other players.
     
  30. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    If this were implemented, and the RNG determined that you did not "unlock" the ability to progress and thus stayed at 100, would you then start another thread complaining about how it is messed up?

    It is an interesting point you bring up, but it will only lead to more of the same crap that this thread and many others before it have amounted to. Nothing but each side doing alot of whining and crying and less playing the game.

    I will concur that upping skills from 100 to 120 probably messed things up, but that ship has long since sailed.
     
  31. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    "If this were implemented, and the RNG determined that you did not "unlock" the ability to progress and thus stayed at 100, would you then start another thread complaining about how it is messed up?"

    No. Well, not unless I played steadily for a long time and never got it, and it seemed broken. :redx:
     
  32. I am a Trammie and I think the current powerscroll situation is fine. This is a roleplaying and adventure game. Without the powerscrolls you have more risk so for those seeking risk it's ok. If you are only PVMing then you really don't need them. It just makes it harder to PVM but you can pick which creatures you PVM with so it's ok. If you really want them they are sold all over Trammel.
     
  33. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    A. You are not "forced" to do anything in UO.

    B. This is not, nor ever has been, a solo game

    Many people have given you the correct information already.

    Your request to have the developers put power scrolls in Trammel is denied.

    Next...
     
  34. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    You could always go play on test center. i believe there are commands that will give you everything you ask for.
     
  35. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    If only they had stopped the game at half-time :(
     
  36. Cruxshadow

    Cruxshadow Guest

    We should elect King Obama to take the throne, that way everyone can get whatever PS they need, everyone would have to same opportunities on the playig field, and we wouldnt have to pay for our subscriptions anymore!!! lol
     
  37. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    The Current power scroll system is a Huge fail

    The argument that only pvp players need them is BS, or that you only need 110 ps to get by is also bs.

    If the scrolls are not important in tram then the benefit from Power scrolls should be lost upon entering tram
    .
     
  38. Miss Smoocher

    Miss Smoocher Journeyman
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    if you ask me fel and tram go hand in hand good and evil. people who dont like tram stay in fel or tram cry cry sniff sniff. we play to have fun if you didnt have fel we would not have UO it started there first. even tho i love tram:p
     
  39. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    As I said in the other thread, mark my words, one day this will happen. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it will happen. As it has shown time after time, those who speak the loudest and longest get what they want. So long as these posts come up and people like myself and others agree its a good thing and put out honest sincere thoughts to how to work it, one day it will happen.

    Just like the Greater Dragon nerf. It wasent the tamers asking for it. And so it shall be with PS's, its not the pvp'ers requesting it in Tram, well almost none of them anyways. The ones who are actually good people and care for the community of UO as a whole see this as a good thing.
     
  40. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    I think that each rule set needs to have everything available to it. Felucca should have had Ilshenar, Malas, Tokuno, etc and Trammel the same. Each facet should have the same items such as power scrolls. And if it's REALLY all about playstyle, then each player would play on the facet best suited for them.
     
  41. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    Not really. This has been asked for over a long period of time, and I'd bet almost since the beginning since PS were introduced. The fact of the matter is, like it or not, Fel Champ Spawns provide the PvP community a focal point to fight over. The other focal point is Factions, but Factions have a penalty in stat loss if killed. What will be left if PS at Fel Champ Spawns come to Tram? Yew Gate. Wow, bestill my beating heart.

    As far as saying something will happen, well, I'll say this. I've seen a few more posts from folks BEGGING for more content on the high seas over the last couple years. To date, the Devs haven't even mentioned that this is even on the radar. So, just wanting something to happen isn't enough to make it happen.
     
  42. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    The only reason I disagree with this statement is it pretty much removes the last limitation that players incur when they decide to go "red".

    Now, if we were to revert that "reds" could only be in the city of Bucc's Den lest they be guardwhacked and to go back to when "reds" were killed, they incurred stat loss, I may reconsider my position on your point.
     
  43. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    So you are saying the community like me that likes to pvp would die off? I doubt it. As mentioned in my other post, the only thing that would happen is the non-pvp'ers from tram just would not come to Fel anymore. But the hardcore pvp'rs would remain.

    Are you saying that Fel pvp is dependant upon non-pvp combatants from Tram to thrive?
     
  44. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    Its neeeeeeeeeeeevver gonna happen so this thread is yet another waste of time.

    :stretcher:
     
  45. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    Gowron,

    I think she means, such as Felluca is a "Mirror" of Trammel, such should be all the lands. Since we have two we just call them "Original" lands, thus we would have two of the whole world, including Malas, Ish, Tok, Ter Mur Ect...

    Each taking the rules of what we now know as Trammel and Felluca. Trammel would basicly stay the same. Felluca would grow enormously adding all that land and the extra champs! Both facets or "Mirrors" of the world would be identical in the way of Arties, Powerscrolls, ect, but one would follow Trammel rules and the other Felluca.

    This would be an idea I would back. Wow, good thoughts there.
     
  46. Miriandel

    Miriandel Seasoned Veteran
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    What kind of dictionary do you use where service spells monopoly? :bs:

    I have all my 120's excepted one, and playing on Drachenfels I can pretty easily avoid jerks and run champions when i fancy, but I really pity the poor blokes playing Atlantic or Pac.

    Since powerscrolls are a fundation for character development, and not a luxury, there is no logical reason to force people to PvP.
    PvP should be a goal in itself, that's why the factions system needs revamped, and PvP has nothing to do with power scrolls.

    If you disagree with me, blow Trammel up and then we'll agree, you have my vote.
    As far as Trammel exists, powerscrolls do NOT belong to Fel.

    Simple as that.
     
  47. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    No. Fel PvP happens regardless of Tram involvement. Nor did I say PvP would die off.
    I'll go with my perspective on PvP, and you are cordially invited to agree or disagree, as I accept perspectives differ.

    PvP is more interesting when it's more spontaneous. Yew Gate fighting is rather boring as house hiding and guard whacking is really a pain in the butt. Factions allow for a certain amount of the spontaneous fights to occur, but with stat loss, it's a bit of a downer. Champ Spawns provide a bit of surprise, because you don't really know when the raid is going to happen (note that it is "when" and not "if"). Also, team fighting for an objective is a bit more of a rush than just showing up and having a random brawl.

    As I see it, there are 3 aspects of the game that provide objective based team fighting in PvP: Champ Spawns, Factions, and IDOCs.

    Now, my playstyle pretty much focuses on Tram, however, I do dabble in PvP from time to time, and I do review and understand hard core Fel players' perspectives. Hmmmm, isn't it odd that a trammie doesn't want Powerscrolls in Tram?
     
  48. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    No, my original statement still stands.
     
  49. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    Or a pvper in a pvp guild who dont mind powerscrolls in Tram? Like Me! lol
     
  50. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    "Tram and its other facets came about after Fel "......you neglect to say "the online version of Ultima"

    Anybody who knows Ultima knows clearly, in the home console games, trammel was in existence.

    For some reason, they chose fellyland to be the beginning facet, another keyword. And, though some still live in the past, and yearn for the removal of anything after trammel induction, it won't happen.

    Another thing, why is it, if someone expresses desire for something, a bunch of negative clowns jump onboard the post and and bash it to hell? I'm not talking context, just **** poor attitudes.

    We all know there's rampant greed in the game, as well as 1st class, grade-A idiots, who go ut of their way to ruin things for other players. Why defend these losers??,,,,,,oh, because you can.

    To the original poster, I agree with you. There's no resolution to the power scroll situation. It's all "fellyland" has.