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Pray harder ... Japan Power plant, detonation

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Fayled Dhreams, Mar 12, 2011.

  1. at about 48 seconds ...


    Pray harder ...
  2. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Jul 16, 2003
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    One thing to note is that these reactor issues could have easily been prevented.

    A major difference between US and Japanese designs is that the Japanese tended to make their nuke plants very standardized, while each US plant was pretty much a custom job in every way.

    Many looked at the Japanese system as advantageous because of this. However, the downside was very much a factor of the standardization.

    They were designed with excellent earthquake survival in mind. What they didn't do, however, is design to take into account the fact that the same design would be used both inland and on the coast.

    The power plants that shut down successfully were in-land, as their backup power systems were engaged, or they were able to get power from sources outside the earthquake zone to run the primaries.

    The one that had the explosion (probably a hydrogen explosion, the result of the coolant getting too hot, and the material in the reactor causing water to split into hydrogen and oxygen), and the other one having difficulties, reportedly had their diesel generators & the pumps powered by the generators placed where the tsunami water was able to get to them and ruin them.

    The word "tsunami" is Japanese. They've experienced hundreds of them. That they failed to adjust the power plant designs to move the coastal plants' emergency systems higher than the 10-15m height tsunami are typically limited to by their very nature (either higher in the buildings, or on top of a mound), is downright criminal.

    You literally CAN'T design or build a coastal plant in the US (especially in the last 35 years), without raising the plant and its emergency systems above flood/storm surge/tsunami levels, from all the watchdog groups and oversight from the DOE. I'm pretty sure the European power plants (at least those not of Soviet design) had to go through similar overdesign. How the Japanese, of all people, failed to do so boggles the mind.
  3. SchezwanBeefy

    SchezwanBeefy Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Apr 27, 2009
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  4. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Aug 21, 2000
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    My heart goes out to all of them. Imagine a whole town wiped away... can you? over 70,000 people .... and no one knows how many lives gone.

    It is frightening to think about it.

    Prayers are all I have for them.
  5. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
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    All the plants shut down successfully, not just the in-land ones. The moment the earthquake detection system went off the control rods were all dropped in the core. The process took only a couple minutes and well before the tsunami arrived. The problem is the generators needed to run the cooling system after the plant shuts down were damaged by the tsunami.

    If they had protected the backup generators as good as they protect the reactor, then it likely would have been a non-issue.
  6. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
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    No town was wiped out.
    70,000 people did not lose thier lives.

    Stick to the facts.
  7. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
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  8. Jartan

    Jartan Guest

    I think he was referring specifically to the fact that several major news sources were reporting 70,000 missing when that was in fact a major translating error that they all copy and pasted.

    It's actually a real shame that the reactor is getting so much news. The danger it poses is nothing compared to what the quakes/tsunami have caused and are still causing. Not to mention it could of been completely avoided by certain backup power generation systems which Japan has been advised to adopt and chosen not to in the past.

    Hopefully Japan will take the sane approach of moving to reactor designs that aren't capable of meltdown in the future.
  9. heh!
    it is "getting attention" because the plant alone is a "world class event"
    Blast at Japan nuke plant; 10,000 missing after quake - Channel NewsAsia
    then toss in the "bruce willis effect"

    The aftershocks they are working >right on top of<, rocking of the boat heading to the falls
    evacuating some 170,000 people for a 10 mile >no go zone< around the unsecure reactor/S ...

    Pumping seawater to cool the reactor ...

    >I SERIOUSLY DOUBT< that the main vessel will pop ... but ...
    if it did Chernobyl style ...
    well ...
    know how big a dead zone that one IS?
    put it on the coast where the plant is ...

    cuts across a major highway ... didn't it ...

    Like I said ... Pray harder for them and theirs ...

    For all we know (_basically-absolutely-nothing_) ...
    all this is a prelude to activating a few volcanoes

    on the ring of fire ...

    pfffft! little leaky well in the gulf PALES in comparision
    we're talking godzilla class legends here ...

    dayum! just (at this post time) news flash from Japan:
    2nd reactor declared "emergency status" ... No.3 reactor

    2011 is turning out to be a very "interesting" year ...
  10. did I mention Volcanoes?

    Got google earth? The "quake swam" appears to be moving to the south towards Tokyo ... off shore and under water ... yeah

    [youtube]aCkDutgu_I8[/youtube]Ever hear of under water avalanches?

    Y'all ain't praying hard enough for them ...

    longer display

  11. Cirno

    Cirno Purple Pony Princess
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Dec 24, 2009
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    Thank you for sharing that link
    Of all the pictures and video I've seen, those before and afters have best shown the shear extent of the devastation
  12. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
    Professional VIP Stratics Veteran Supporter Alumni Campaign Benefactor Alumni

    Oct 21, 2008
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    Aye, that was a good one. Devastating, though,
  13. Annnnd the second reactor pops its top ...


  14. Third reactor critically involved now ...


    From the times link/cited

    In reactor No. 2, which is now the most damaged of the three at the Daiichi plant, at least parts of the fuel rods have been exposed for several hours, which also suggests that some of the fuel has begun to melt. If more of the fuel melts before water can be injected in the vessel, the fuel pellets could burn through the bottom of the containment vessel and radioactive material could pour out that way — often referred to as a full meltdown.

    “They’re basically in a full-scale panic” among Japanese power industry managers, said a senior nuclear industry executive late Monday night.

    My earlier posting?

    Seawater? :talktothehand:

    Seawater and boron are last ditch seal it off write it off stick a fork in it its done as a salvageble resource
    Plant officials are also injecting sea water and boron into the plant in an effort to cool its nuclear fuel and stop any reactions.

    Boron, a chemical element, was being added to the water "to sort of stymie other potential nuclear reactions," according to Robert Alvarez, senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies and a former senior policy adviser to the U.S. secretary of energy. He described the plan to use salt water as "an act of desparation" by Japanese authorities, who seemed unable to deliver fresh water or plain water to cool the reactor and stabilize it.

    In StarTrek terms ... way past the time to "eject the core!" ... way past because >> they can't "eject" the containment vessel anywhere ...
    the problem is the heat inside the container
    Generated by the rods ... its what they do ... and what multiple levels of "control" >were designed< to handle the same processes of.

    SCRAM stands for "safety control rod axe man"
    that happened at all alerted systems
    what didn't happen,
    was cooling the scrammed rods (they were just in use) quickly enough to reach a "stable non reactive state" (safe plateu)

    Due to design >and pressure<
    They can't do an obvious mediation
    pull the individual rods out and physically seperate them
    they are too hot to "handle"
    review the situation ...
    they are too hot to cool ...
    cooling the outside of the containment vessel
    will not "cool" the rods IN the vessel ...

    Whats really not been mentioned
    they cannot "see" Inside the vessel

    they >would have< released ANY "good/factual" image from within ...
    to "calm" all concerned ...

    itsa 40year old design ... due to decommision last month ... extended for ten years
    designed to withstand a 7.0
    designed to survive a tidal surge / tsunami / typhoon(hurricane)
    they are japanese
    they know where they live
    they been doing it for awhile

    They will wrestle the dragon into submission
    Learn from their mistakes
    and move on into the 21st century

    With our prayers perhaps ...
    along with us at least ...
  15. Problems for units 3 and 4

    The dragon has engaged all four reactors
    the "rating" of the battle is exceeded (now) only by Chernobyl (a "7" 3mile was a "5" )

    it will not get that bad ... to tie

    I hope and pray
    Godspeed and fair skys for the 50 who do battle.
  16. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Oct 25, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Fayled Dhreams
    your link triggers virus alerts.

    the radiation coming out of this plant (in the steam) is very short half life.
    it is dangerous up close and when it comes out. it is below normal levels after 1 day. the half life is something like 4 mins.

    the USA press will try to make it sound like a super disaster to polarize people against nuclear energy added here in the states.
    you may be for or against it but at least know what is really going on.

  17. which one? ... :lol:
    If >I< can get there ...

    hmmm WHEN? was #4 "imploded?"

    Here's #1 after first big blast ... yes?

    See the containment vessel top? yes?
    note the following highly accurate model

    here's an sat shot after #3 popped
    note damage to #4 ... minimal ... right?


    wasn't no "fire" what did this damage


    Whats the half life of Plutonium?
    thats whats IN #3 (all of them actually ... best YOU "read up" )

    Cranes are finally on site ....
    wonder where they laid #3s containment vessel ...

    By the way ... speaking of reading up ... I am pro nuclear ...
    wait one
    pro SMART nuclear ...
    as in designed full on deadman safe
    no peeps?
    system idles down ... period
    like this design:

    Time for praying?

    not over.

  18. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    May 13, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Just spotted this thread, Fayled.

    No idea if folks are able to view this elsewhere, but one of my brothers suggested we watch this if the science of it were remotely interesting:- Japan's Tsunami - How It Happened
  19. Keep praying ...


    It'll be ten to fifteen years before we get any actual "data" on whuthappn'd

    Still definitely a SIX-Plus on the current scale ...

    but but Three mile was a six ... no problem.
    Three mile was ONE reactor ...

    this is three to four ... definitely three >have been salted< (see the link)

    Three mile returned to service
    Three reactors here will definitely NOT return to service
    There is no chance of a Chernobyl solution ... entombing the entire site.
    the chernobyl "solution" is STILL currently a fail

    and not on the coastal fault line of fricking japan ...
    with a smashed 40 year old design
    after a 9.0
    a coastal remapping tidal wave


    What did they do for a Karma payoff like that?


    pray harder
  20. who said plutonium first?

    *raises hand*

    Pray harder ...
  21. [youtube]ZLK9xy2frsY[/youtube]

    won't work

    Pray LOUDER and harder

    *shrugs* :danceb:
  22. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

    Nov 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    No not at all, but even if I was praying you'd be the last to know.

    And besides, I'm doing something much more effiscient.

    What are you doing exept saying you're smarter than your own country's intelligence network ?
  23. Poor booboo ...

    Three-Month Update of Fukushima Accident and the Flood of New Information Coming Out | Dr. Kaku's Universe | Big Think

    apparently >I am< ...

    didn't think it would reveal >this quick<
    thought it would be 2-3 years soonest

    quakes subside
    tidal waters flow away
    bodies are buried
    houses rebuilt

    lose control of three nuclear reactors
    (4th was in storage mode ... but also critically involved)

    30-100 years of cleanup ...
    IF there aren't any other "naturals" arise ...
    earthquake, tidal wave, typhoon, ... godzilla/meteor-strike are the only low odds bets:sad4:
  24. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

    Nov 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I might be poor, but I'm rich in my heart.

    Didn't I read somewhere that they would be starting to close down all the other reactors ?

    How long would that take ?

    Oh yes, btw, my point still stands, even if you are more intelligent than CIA's think thankers all combined together.
  25. vance99

    vance99 Guest

    They have always been strong and they will definitely come up back. Its just their testing time.
  26. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

    Nov 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Noone cares huh ? Noone pays attention ?

    There is 1100 views right here, all different people, nonincluding guests from search engines or mouth to mouth...

    I think it is working. :heart:
  27. jessys

    jessys Guest

    Prayers are really important. More prayers! :))