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Pricing these new Shame "Artifacts"

Discussion in 'UHall' started by startle, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    The properties of the new drops in Shame is just amazing... Stuff that both didn't exist and couldn't be made before. So how do you go about PRICING something like this:

    [​IMG]

    I want to be able to make some cash by putting stuff like this on my vendor - and I want to be reasonable without "giving it away"... But frankly, I have no idea how much to charge for something like this.

    How would YOU go about pricing this item?

    :coco:
     
  2. evil randy

    evil randy Guest

    Considering its limited use, I wouldn't pay more than 10 - 100K for it.
     
  3. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    par say it was not cursed and was not brittle and was not unable to be repaired..u would be sitting on a pretty penny....

    someone may take a chance/pay for a few dungeon outings but not much more
     
  4. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    What everyone above has said also items like that are easy to come by. The harder items to price are the clean items with usable mods. I've left so many items on the corpse that were that equal or better but had brittle or cannot be repaired. I'm currently using cursed items so that negative doesn't bother me too much.
     
  5. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    If it has any negatives, I dont want it, and I do not believe it to have any value, but that's just me.
     
  6. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Ok, I understand what you (and others) are saying regarding the "life" of the new Shame drops - ie. that they can't be repaired or powdered - but it seems to me that some of these incredible artifacts should have decent value to someone who might (for instance) hold them for when they are fighting something that they REALLY want to defeat, and that in doing so they can last for quite a while...

    Just sayin... and if these Legendary Artifacts are as "worthless" as you say, then doesn't that make the whole Shame "upgrade" pretty much worthless..??

    :cursing:
     
  7. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    doesn't make them worthless just makes them not worth farming and selling for 100s of mil. which I think is a good thing. The nice thing about the vast majority of the shame loot is that the pieces worth is largely up to the player. I have a bunch of pieces that I use on my blues that are cursed and cannot be repaired that I value and like and I'm sure no one else would even spend a mil on. Finally UO has introduced items that are useful and doesn't serve as a cash cow for scripters and 24/7 sampire nerds.
     
  8. Bman

    Bman Seasoned Veteran
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    Most of the Legendary Cursed items are pretty much worthless (though they do break down to relic frags). I have one vendor that I reload each week with new legendary items for 100K each. Some sell, most dont.

    Now there is that chance - very very slight chance you will pull that legendary item out with no negatives and it will be worth all your hard work and time spent in the depths of shame.

    There are also some very nice Major, Lesser, Etc items with really good mods that will drop with no negatives as well.

    I have a nice Spell channel shield with 190 luck (enhanced), with DCI, and a couple regens on it that I have been offered 40 Mill for. I havent let it go just yet...
     
  9. flappy6

    flappy6 Sage
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    and then you have sick people like me that farms shame ,keeps 60% of the stuff and then buys stuff off vendors lol,guess im crazy but i used cursed stuff for pvp if i die i jus make another suit cheaper and faster than makin imbued suit
     
  10. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Items don't need to have a huge laundry list of mods either. Just getting a ring or bracelet with 150 Luck or another single above-cap mod with no negatives makes for a good pull as well.

    Other musings about Shame currently:

    Pre-Tweak, seemed like I would find the occasional 110% Durability item or item with Durability and Lower Requirements (which at that time were VERY valuable for Relics and trash points respectively), Post-Tweak, I regularly see 100+ all the way to 150% Durability and usually paired with Lower Reqs as well... which is frustrating now that the two mods are completely USELESS.

    While the Relic-worthy item drops have lowered due to the above issue being fixed, I'm still getting a few each run I make which makes it a vast improvement from pre-Shame revamp.

    Edit to add: Regens, Particularly Regens at the levels of 6 and 9 (HP especially) seem to be more key for easier relics, even more especially on weapons than armor. (HP Regen 9 = 450 Intensity points alone regardless of other mods)

    The Mod batches seems like they tend to favor mage-based templates compared to melee-based While I can show some amazing, well distributed mage-mod items, the melee-mod items seem to be lacking the same level of focus.

    An addendum to the above, it seems like the BEST melee-mod-based items are trending to be SHIELDS... which is another frustration since my build uses Bushido which makes it WORSE to use a shield than it does simply using a two-handed weapon. So I'm gaining quite a shield collection... with no reason to use them.

    Finally... I should have taken more stock of the Hit Lower Defense mod a LONG time ago.
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The problem of an item based game with modifiers affecting combat outcomes, is that it relies on modifiers to be, aheam, balanced out between all pieces of a suit.

    What most players do is take one or 2 better items and build the suit they want "around" these items thus achieving the modifiers totals they want from the suit depending on their skills and template.

    Now, with the Shame items that are so much short lived this is close to be impossible to do since building a whole suit around them is pointless because once they break the whole suit becomes unbalanced and so hardly usefull........

    Well, my personal opinion is that yes, this upgrade as it is ain't much usefull at all.....
    The only good I see from the new items is either from the unravelling of them or from the lower items that drop with one or 2 mods maxed out and which can be imbued thus saving up resources for the mods which are maxed out already. But other than this, I see no big usefullness from the new Shame items........
     
  12. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    i turn all cursed stuff into relics.. so what 10-40k?
     
  13. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I don't mind cursed stuff at all, especially if it has an open imbuing slot for training Today, for Tomorrow, i simply get more. Very little I don't unravel, save some 150 luck items w/ no negatives that I can get on lvl 1-3, but i typically don't sell/buy any of it. Until things become standardized, I couldn't justify selling something for a mil, or more, that probably only yields a few residue, sorry, just can't do it.

    I have found there's nothing there to rely on when tomorrow comes with this stuff, so i end up using 'old reliables'. I think it was Players that kept saying stuff lasts forever, give us a change, this is it! Went in the other day, testing, weapon durability dropped roughly 1pt per elemental - I was ready to kill a few hundred and play a few hours - not happening is it? Maybe it's easier way in, but I still like to play not so stressful stuff, and w/o needing a specialized template. With all the devastating acid effect on our stuff, I'm starting to ask, What's the Point? It's sure not gold. What's in Shame that's so desirable? Aren't "Artifacts" supposed to be something cool and useful?
    Pick any Shame "artifact" at random, pick up a Soul seeker, or similar - What's gonna get used more? We know which one, and the other just goes poof, some legend huh?
     
  14. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    Cursed only matters to me if I have to build other items around it. For weapons or shields I don't care if they are cursed. It would take price off but that’s about it. I try and use weapons in specific situations. Also for anyone building an arena suit cursed should make no difference at all as you cannot be looted in the arenas. I don't even really care about brittle and cannot be repaired as I would use them for something and then swap them out if they get destroyed. That being said I do think that you shouldn't be expecting more then 100k at best for things with negative mods on them for the most part. Part of the reason gear goes for so much now is that it essentially lasts forever. If its a consumable (which is how I view the cursed and cannot be repaired things) then it should cost quite a bit less. That being said I have found at least 120 items that I am planning on using in some way other then relic fodder. Some of them are clean some for training suits and others to provide low level spawn trash weapons that will help clean those spawns out really fast, and my personal favorite’s things that have a value in pvp or arenas.
     
  15. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Ok, I understand everything all of you have said... And I agree - to some extent - but it really depends on the situation, doesn't it. I'm guessing that most of the negative comments on the new Shame loot is coming from the PvP crowd - where "Cursed" is actually cursed, so to speak...

    But for all of us who DON'T Pvp, "Cursed" just means that you might have to kill whatever killed you to get it back (usually it's on your corpse anyway), so "Cursed" on something is no big deal...

    As an example, let me show you another Shame find (that has obviously been "enhanced") but it shows the value of these "drops" to many of us non-PvP types:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    Personally, these Shame artifacts are based from a time before insurance because our new Ultimate Franchise Producer apparently remembers a time we had great fun and where we had items that you would take out and hope to not loose to a monster or a red like some vanquishing heavy xbow of might that I used to have (the weapon names were nerfed to my dismay so I think that is right). I used to take those items out when I traveled in groups and never solo to avoid losing the item. These items are no different and probably make a lot of sense on Siege. I think what our producer has produced is awesome and reminds me of a lost past that I still yearn for today.

    When factions first came out before insurance I used to have 10 bags in my bank box set up with complete suits, mace weapon, a set of pots and bandages. I would pvp on my character Sargon until dead then run to the bank and grab the next bag. It was all throw away stuff and was awesome fun. My mace would tear through other people's armor and after the 10 bags were consumed in the battles I would call it a night until the next day. I think of how this shame loot is perfect for pvp battles and wouldn't it make winning a battle more fun because you would get some cool cursed item like a +10 SSI bracelet. I think if people want a reason to battle this shame loot is perfect. Forget all the insurance and run around in a suit that you have 10 duplicates in the bank.

    I am saving a ton of items regardless of the curse or cannot be repaired because some are pretty cool to collect in case this is temporary and also some are useful. These shields are awesome. I view most pieces as items that are throw away and if I lost them it wouldn't worry me one bit for instance I have five full loot chests now of additional storage slots consumed. In the end I may never use them, but I could easily give them away and make newbie's awesome suits for free. If they loose it I can give them another one for free.

    I would consider almost everything to be 500 gold to 20k unless it is clear of major negatives. I don't think -100 luck as a major negative to any suit. For the most part everyone has the items so they shouldn't fetch a high price. Most of the items will only last a week or two unless you are a very casual player.

    If you want to make gold on these items you are going to have to sell them in volume to get good revenue. If you sell (100) SSI 5, DCI 20, DI 35 or 5 HCI shields for 10k then you got 1 mill and then if you have 10 vendors doing that then that's 10 mill. I would try making a shield vendor selling things for 1k to 20k and see how you do. It would be a little trickier to work a weapon vendor because that will depend on the mods, weapon speed, and specials the weapon gives. I think jewelry and shields would sell well for the 500 to 20k price range.

    -Lorax
     
  17. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    “0”

    you can throw it away.

    Its just wasting space.

    Oh actually, don't throw it, just unravel it.
     
  18. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    Ok. Actually, the reason why I said your short spear value "0" and just unravel it is due to following reason:-

    1. You cannot bash a mob with a short spear, the special move is a joke. Dont tell me you gonna mortal wound and shadow strike a monster to death
    2. I agree with you, that is not a pvp weapon as well. Moreover, its cursed, so yea, pvm is the only method for this type of weapon
    3. The mods aren't so good. There is no damage increase, the leech arent good enough at all.
    4. There is no slayer types on the weapon. Dont tell me you're gonna use this to bash on some unbound energy vortex. I average kill an unbound vortex in 2-3 mins without discord and less than 2 mins with discord. With this weapon, it will be taking probably 1 hour.
    5. I can net about 30 of these in 1 hour of hunting. I didn't do the actual counting, but every vortex I kill, I would be getting average 1-2 legandary afs which is similar or even better than yours.

    6. Just unravel it to have the maximum value. No one will buy your weapon unless he's stupid. Period.
     
  19. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    I'd love to watch you do this.... What shard/char?
     
  20. Bman

    Bman Seasoned Veteran
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    I just timed our killing of unbound vortex's. 2 Characters (Sampire and Disco Mage)

    Using a sampire with a double axe - elemental damage I average 130 to 160 dmg every swing after discorded. (Double strike and Lightening strike) also honored.

    We use a discord mage that uses a Elemental Slayer book with SDI 9% on the book. After disco she does 35 - 40 dmg per fireball.

    The first one took 4:11 to kill
    Second one took 3:47 to kill
    Third one took 4:22 to kill

    So its possible to take them down pretty quickly with the right set up... Without disco, takes about double the time. I also use a Bladed Staff sometimes instead of the Double axe as well.
     
  21. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    After farming for hours, and hours, trying to get a 'clean' splintering weapon cleaver, i bought one off of a friend for a good price.

    I realized that I have unravelled tons of "legendary artifact" katanas and hatchets with splintering weapon. They were perfect, except for having all 3 negative (brittle, can't be repaired, cursed). Then I realized.. why am I not using those for PvP?

    I'm going to start stockpiling the cursed ones and just use them. Who cares if they are cursed since they'll break anyways?

    This philosophy will only really work for weapons but w/e.
     
  22. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Unbound Energy Vortex.avi - YouTube

    I'd be interested to see if someone can do it faster than that with a single character with no supporting bard/etc.
     
  23. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    You hit the same thing I have been doing all along. Of course I plan on selling them too becuase I love farming EVs.
     
  24. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    I do mine with a AI sampire and a supporting Disco/Macing/Peacing sampire but I'm sure that together it takes longer then 2 mins. 4 would seem about right though.
     
  25. Bman

    Bman Seasoned Veteran
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    Great Video and very impressive to do alone that quick!

    Would like to know what mods are on that sword they are using as well as the total suit mods.
     
  26. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    When they announced that the new Shame items would have "drawbacks" I figured it would be stuff like sweet armor but with a DCI penalty, or a nice leech weapon with a damage penalty. Stuff that could be viewed as a trade-off or compensated for.

    Instead we got mediocre items branded with "CURSED/BRITTLE/CANNOT BE REPAIRED/JUST THROW ME AWAY SERIOUSLY" mods that render them completely worthless. There's no trade-off, no analysis. No one is going to use a piece of armor that can't be repaired, no matter what stats are on it.

    The developers seem to want to give us something to wear besides imbued gear but are too afraid of making us "overpowered" to actually do so. Thus we instead live in a world full of Stygian Abyss artifacts that sell for 200k and a revamped Shame that functions as little more than a relic frag garbage-farm.
     
  27. aoLOLita

    aoLOLita Sage
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    I love the Shame loot:) Like a poster above, I keep nearly 60-70% of the llot, esp jewels and shields - and all the 150 Luck pcs! Anything that has a cap above what can normally be imbued (ie, MR4, FCR4, EP35) i keep...

    I also build "town scribe" and mage trng suits - doesnt matter if cursed/CBR/Brittle with max MR,LMC,Mana Inc, FC/FCR, LRC...

    Granted, I play Mystic, Tamer and Thrower so seldom take direct damage so even a 35 DUR capped pc will give me months of play. No need to waste time and costly magic gems now to get MR, SSI and above 25EP on jewels.

    Looking forward to the next dungeon revamp! GREAT job, Devs!
     
  28. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    The novelty is starting to fade away for me, I hope the next dungeon revamp is close.
     
  29. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    WOW, that's AMAZING Lynk... thx for sharing it !

    Would you mind telling us exactly what her template is?
    :)
     
  30. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    Go to the warrior forum and look for Lynk's "My newest sampire" thread. He runs with longswords with pots to get a huge mana pool and AIs non-stop.
     
  31. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    Well I have 115 mana, 40 LMC, max mana leech, 80 HLD between M&S and weapon, 45 HCI, AI for 165-222 with my hatchet with GM lumberjacking 120 tacts & anat and yet after dozens and dozens of EVs I have yet to not run out of mana. This must have been a very very lucky run of leeches you had my friend and is likely not the norm.
     
  32. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I thought that since the EVs have so many hitpoints, and I have to AI so many times, that would remove all doubt. Guess not.. and to answer your question, that is the norm.

    Edit* Plus - if you're using a hatchet that means you can't use a soul charge shield which also helps with mana.
     
  33. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    It must be the soul charge making the difference. I'm not breaking your stones, just saying from the specs I posted above I should also be able to chain AI without running out of mana, but I do run out. I'll try a broadsword/shield combo and report back.
     
  34. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    You also have to think about other factors like how much mana leech you have on wepon, your hit chance and you hit lower defence that help you hit.
    #I only run 10 LMC and i can pretty much chain AI, i have maybe 5 hits per EV that dont AI.

    Thunderz
     
  35. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    I'm pretty much maxed out. I switched back over to my non-lumber template and I don't have enough mana to hit AI around 5 to 10 times during the fight. I havent had a single time where I AI'd from beginning to end.

    40 LMC
    120 swords/bush 60 parry 300 points for mana reduction
    115 mana
    ~70 HLD between M&S and weapon
    45 HCI
    62 mana leech
    35 SSI

    So I must be extremely unlucky compared to Lynk since everything else appears equal.
     
  36. JoO

    JoO Seasoned Veteran
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    I am starting to look at the weapons like weapons of old. If I stockpile enough powers and vanqs when it breaks or I lose it I can just go grab another but until then I have an amazing tool to use.

    Obviously the way suit are made in jigsaw fashion I dont have this luxury with armor but I am getting an insane clean piece here and there. As with anything in UO the longer it is in the game the more likely it will be for me to get what I need from it.
     
  37. arkanos

    arkanos Seasoned Veteran
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    I am actually about 15 seconds faster than you (your time is about 2 minutes 50 seconds and it takes me around 2 minutes 35 seconds).
    But in all honesty I have to thank you because your samp thread really got me there.
    I *think* the reason I am a little faster is because I use tinker legs in my suit which means that I have a base of 40SSI. So if I fight the EVs, I switch out quiver for ranger cloak and equip a 10 SSI shield after chugging which gets me to 55 SSI.
    This means that I will hit at max speed, even when hit once or twice - as long as I stay at or above 150 stamina. And I think you only run 35 SSI in the video which drops your real swing speed to 1,5 when hit - only until you use a refresh or stamina leech procs.
    Using longswords as well, but I have less mana than you - can´t use faction gear -so balancing stats was a little harder. But still able to chain my AI´s with 85 mana without problems.

    Thanks again for all your samp posts Lynk, really helped a lot!
     
  38. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Yep, Lynk's one of a handful of dedicated players that really go all the way when it comes to helping.... (And occasionally makes me spew beer directly from throat thru nose when somebody posts something just so totally lame that no one else knows how to answer).

    Lynk's fun to have around the boards.... slightly volatile at times, but fun and very, very knowledgable.
     
  39. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    what wepon are you using and what are the mods on it?
    It sounds like you dont have enough ML or SL.

    Thunderz