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Problem with Veterans on SP

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by ApollyonSP, Jan 26, 2015.

  1. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    I'm going to use this recent admission of the severe problem veterans have on SP.

    Now I realize that (thankfully) Freja Tiny Tinker doesn't speak for all other veterans, or maybe anybody else, and her "view" only represents herself. But I bet she does have a few supporters. So I'll nip this in the bud. Veterans (like her) have a bad attitude on the forum, and in the game. And I am certain this bad attitude dissuades new players from staying on the shard more than 6 months, tops. I've been here for over 2 years now. So I have can speak from experience. In fact I may as well consider myself a 'VET'. I've seen n00bs come and go. I've seen Pendragon harassed and bullied off the forum. I've seen other n00bs leave due to the same reason. There's one bad attitude on SP in particular, toxic, bad vibes, hateful, mean, cruel, that I won't talk about directly. And that is poisonous, creates a bad atmosphere (in general chat) that sends new players running away from.

    (A few) Veterans have this "holier than thou" attitude. You, falsely, believe that since you've been here for 10 or 15 years, that it entitles you something. Well, hate to break the news to you, but it does NOT. Why not? Now listen up because this next part is important....this is a video GAME. A GAME. Play to have fun. I do. If I don't have fun, I don't play SP. But I do (mostly building and designing houses). To each his/her own.

    To me, vets like Freja Tiny Tinker forgot how to have fun, long ago. They take the game too seriously, creating a bad environment. A bad environment leads to a bad shard. It reduces the population. I believe that vets have created this toxic, low population environment, to secure yourselves. I understand that you want to "own" the shard. You want to have power over new players, kick out whomever you dislike. Veterans, perhaps justified, feel that "since I've been here so long entitles me to a bigger voice" in the community.

    However, what are the results after years? Low population? Dying shard? New players tend not to stay? Why not?

    I'm telling you why, right now. Listen or don't, I don't care.


    Because here's the bottom line. None of you vets CAN stop me having a good, fun time. And if you do, then I won't play, as is the case in general. When I don't have fun, I log out. A good lesson for others, n00b or vet alike.
     
  2. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    Huh
    Huh? What's this all about?
     
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  3. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    Ha! I love how lively the Siege forum gets. Constant amusement!

    Apollyon, I think you have a great point in that as a game, a player is here to have fun. Bottom line.

    Unfortunately, I think that message is lost in some of your rhetoric.

    As a noob who has both built their account from scratch and then benefited greatly from vet players once established, I "think" I see how you might believe vet help doesn't always help. I don't share that opinion, but that doesn't mean others won't.

    What I DO believe is that siege has an engaged group of players who have VERY different ideas of what is Fun in game. And like you said, we're here to have fun.

    I love the mix. I love the unpredictability of a day in siege.

    BUT, imho, you do seem to have some personal feelings against some of the others. I don't fault you for that, we all have that, makes us human. But in this specific case, I think you might be letting those feelings cloud your articulation of how to improve or change the shard.

    If you take a step back and read some of your last few posts, they come off as exactly the type of things you are seemingly against.


    Again, I respect that you have strong opinions. That's cool. But your message is maybe being weakened by letting some things bleed through.

    Just as an aside, I haven't met a single person on siege who has honestly pissed me off. I've met a lot of people who don't seem to get along. But each in their own way do what it's fun for them and what they believe is good for siege.


    *steps off soap box*

    Sorry, got long winded there....
     
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  4. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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  5. chargar42

    chargar42 Seasoned Veteran
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    I have no idea what this is all about. Sounds like some personal stuff, but I can say that there is a lot of fun on Siege. The vets I know step out of there way to help all the noobs. I guess we need to know exactly what happened to respond.
     
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  6. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    Let me give people the short version:

    I have a grudge against Freja Tiny Tinker, because of her bad attitude, and this is an attitude I believe is rampant on the shard, and perhaps common among the "Veterans".

    They (She) believe that if you don't live up to THEIR expectations, or you are not a person worthy of THEIR approval, then they will shun you and try to exclude you from the whole shard. It's like the "in group out group" kind of thing, a popularity contest. They believe that their 10+ years on the shard ENTITLES them to something, when I claim, it does not. It entitles nothing. Because this is "just a game" and having fun is the main point, for me anyway.

    That said, I disagree entirely about how some veterans "help" new players. Some veterans FEEL like they're helping new players, and I claim they are not. Or worse, the vets are making this an inhospitable shard, that sucks the fun out of things.

    So we have a different approach to things.


    I believe that if people have fun, and invite new players into that fun, then the shard will grow and prosper. Which it is not doing right now, currently. A lot of people have left over the past 2 years. I blame the vets, not all, but some.

    IF people want more on the shard, a vibrant community, lots of fun, then the VETS need to change. Especially the bad attitude of a few.
     
  7. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    First of all, please allow me to be the first to say this. "This"
     
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  8. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Now tell me who I had tried to kick of the shard or tell what guilds not to join?
     
  9. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    Apollyon, you mentioned you don't have a lot of game time atm, so this may not be feasible, but why don't you host a Luna player event?

    This would allow you to invite everyone (one of your stated goals), AND advertise Luna (another of your goals). You could do a combat event like spawn a harbinger, or a trade day / auction, or whatever.

    And you say there is some history with Freja and others, but maybe you could provide a way for them to help out. It would give you a chance to show people your on preferred way, while maybe burying the hatchet a little.

    You could even do something as simple as hold a hunting contest, and provide the money for trophy mounting to the winner and have out displayed in a Luna public house for a set time.

    Thoughts?
     
  10. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    Can't we all just get along and kill each other like we used to do? :)
     
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  11. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    That was back, where we only had Felucca and easy could find each others :)
     
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  12. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    Morder, it could be that kind of event too. Have you guys seen the arena by doom? I saw it looking for nightmares the other day, place is awesome!
     
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  13. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Safe Haven Road works fine for me :)
     
  14. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    Ya. I think I was the last one to duel in there when I kicked Rumpy's ass. Sorry bud, had to.
     
  15. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    @Apollyon
    You speak about Freja and other "vets" in wholesale, negative generalities. That is both boring and meaningless. Be specific. Exactly what has Freja or other "vets" done to you that causes you to lash out here?
    Speak up man!
     
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  16. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Lol, I had to do some searching to find reference to some of the names mentioned. To be honest, I never dealt with many of them, they came and left before my return...but to think that anyone has enough power to force someone off the shard seems silly.

    If the players in question did anything, it might have been to call someone out on a ******** move, but even if they camped their house 24/7 or hunted them in the field...I highly doubt anyone would leave because of that.

    As a matter of fact, I would bet most would love to build an in-game rivalry like that. The way Siege used to be.

    I understand you are fairly new, and Stratics has lost a lot of data (posts) over the years, but if you had access to this forum back in 2001-2004 you'd be mortified at all of the forum wars that took place (yes I was part of them and they were great)...la
     
  17. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    One main thing I've seen happen is n00bs get pushed around in general chat, get mad, and leave the shard, due to a few vets.

    So my impression is that Vets want a low, dead shard, rather than a higher populated thriving shard. The vets want to keep their social grouping (popularity contest) in play.
     
  18. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    HOw exactly does one get pushed around in general chat?...la
     
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  19. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    I guess I outta pay more attention to GC 'cause I don't remember anyone harassing anyone. Maybe because of my play time? I dunno.
     
  20. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Speaking from experience, he is actually right about the general chat thing. I tried to play a little on Siege about a year ago, gave up and went back to Atlantic after about a month of rude comments just about every time I said anything in general chat (with a character none of them knew was me, and I don't remember the names of the people who said them).

    Some examples:

    1. I asked if there were any guilds recruiting and was answered with "If you can't find a guild yourself get off siege before you embarrass yourself"

    2. I asked if anyone knew where I could buy some 120 scrolls, and was answered with "why do you need them, your to much of a noob to ever get to 120 anyway"

    3. I asked if there was a popular hangout area that people like to go to like the Luna of most shards where I could interact with the community, and was answered with "doesn't matter if I tell you where, everyone will leave as soon as you get there, no one wants you here loser"

    So....not the best first impression of the modern Siege community back then heh.
     
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  21. Charles

    Charles Adventurer

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    If someone gets bullied or "kicked" off the shard, so to speak.. then they're just not meant to be here.

    If you don't get along with someone.. don't be near them. Find someone else to "get along" with.

    If you cannot get along with ANYONE on the shard.. maybe you are the problem and should just leave.

    This is not towards anyone.. this is a generalized statement.

    No one will determine when and where I play, other than the people I'm trying to play with. If it's not working out, I'll find another group.

    If there's bad blood. Pk them.
     
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  22. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    Red flag!!!

    This is exactly the kind of attitude I'm fighting against. Because as much as I enjoy a silent shard, all to myself some nights, with nobody online......there comes a point when being alone on SP limits the amount of fun people can have.

    I support a larger, thriving, more active population. Vets dominating gen chat is just one symptom of a few.
     
  23. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    I've seen worse.

    The vets, in general, seem to want to exclude new players rather than be inviting.
     
  24. Charles

    Charles Adventurer

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    Jeez.... First of all. I'm not a "Vet" I've been here for about 4 months and have gotten nothing but a warm welcome.

    Secondly.. All I'm saying is, if you don't like the things people are saying don't listen. I'm not picking any side. I'm not on anyones side.
    Whatever disagreement you may have had or attitude you may dislike, you should just move on.

    I apologize if I seem to have attacked you or antagonized.
     
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  25. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    SS: Rico, I had no idea Siege was so interesting!

    Rico: *munches on popcorn on edge of seat*

    SS: Damnit man, you stole my popcorn again!

    Rico: Nope, I stole it from Bo after he killed you.

    SS: After he wha...

    Bo: *cleans glaive while whistling to himself*
     
  26. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    BS !!
     
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  27. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    By no means am I saying everyone on siege does that, but it did happen, and when things like that happen to people they are not inclined to stay on that shard. Atlantic new players have the same problem sometimes, it's not like siege is the only shard that isn't perfect. Some of the best people I've met in UO are on Siege, but some were not as great like whichever person/people said the examples I gave above.
     
  28. Candy Cane

    Candy Cane Journeyman

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    I have only been playing Siege 3 days and have yet to meet anyone mean or evil. I have told people where I am, I have been at the bank with reds and haven't yet had a problem. I have been offered help from armor, boats and even offer to befriended to someone's house so I would have a safe place to tame from. I've been a newbie three times, my first time to play this game almost 16 years ago, my second time after an almost 8 year lay off from the game and then 3 days ago on Siege. This game has always been what you make it, don't expect anyone to either make it fun for you or to make it bad for you. If you get pked so what, get rezed and start again.

    I am not saying that the guy who has had a bad experience is wrong or that none of that happened, just saying you alone make this game fun and no one else. Plus don't expect people to warm up to you your first day. Give them time to get to know you before you make a judgement on how they will behave, some of my very best friends started out as enemy.
     
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  29. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    Yes but right now the shard population is lowest its been since I've been here (previous 2 years).

    And if Diablo and his crew were running around, you'd be killed multiple times and crying by now. Don't get me wrong, Diablo was a positive addition to the shard in my opinion. SP needs a group of PKers and PVP who keep the shard lively. However the real problem is the type of "non-fun" stuff that does go on in gen chat, that causes people to leave or abandon SP.

    Basically this thread outlines how vets, like Freja Tiny Tinker, is at fault. However, I'm not saying "all vets are bad". But I'd say over 51% are not "helping" the issue. The issue is that we should increase the population of the shard, rather than decrease.
     
  30. Candy Cane

    Candy Cane Journeyman

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    Crying are you kidding I might be a woman but I don't cry over being killed on a game. Second I get killed all the time on the shards I play. I have never lived anywhere but Fel and I play with nothing but pvper, okay sometimes they pvm but only for items to make their pvp chars better. Plus I do IDOC and only in Fel so getting killed over and over is part of the game.

    I am not trying to make light of your feelings or say what you are saying doesn't happen. Just saying that so far my experience is different from yours.
     
  31. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    3 days?!?! Cmon, you can't be serious. You can't argue against me with just 3 days experience.

    I truly hope, for both our sake, that your experience is positive and you endure on SP. Here's some SAGE ADVICE, pay attention, many veterans are not actually out to help you. Cross one, and see what I mean. A few of them can be very petulant, and once that line is crossed, you will be excluded from the shard for all intents and purposes.

    Stay around long enough and you'll see what I mean. As I mentioned, it's like the "cool kid's club", a popularity contest.

    As you can tell, I was never one for those.
     
  32. Candy Cane

    Candy Cane Journeyman

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    OMG its the fence post, I never said you were wrong or that I disagreed with what you experienced. All I said was that isn't whats happened to me so far, if I get run off Siege well then I guess I didn't really want to be here in the first place. I've been both the outsider and one of the cool kids as you call them. I was an outsider when I came back after 8 years, I did spawns alone and got killed plenty of times but you know what I never talked trash, never said anything other than joking about being killed and finally those cool kids said hey we are tried of killing you come play with us. Now they are all my best friends and I hope I can talk them into come to Siege and playing but if they don't want to come I will make new friends and that is just how it goes. I am not saying I will drop my old friends so don't even go there, just saying I can play with other people if they don't want to come here and play.
     
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  33. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    That sound very wierd, I can see 3 reasons, you choose to give your char same name as a Siege player with a very bad reputation or you did something, that made people mad at you or you just happing to be on same time as an immature person, that wanted attention.

    I hope you get a better start this time.
     
  34. WhiteWitch

    WhiteWitch Journeyman

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    Maybe the person making the replies was a certain person who comes to troll on Gen Chat SP around once a month, the guy who someone put a bounty on a few months ago, I imagine naming names is a forum "no no", but you must know the guy I mean.
     
  35. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Sadly I fear you Apollyon make more players leave the shard than any Vet player do. Your negative attitude do nothing good for the shard.
    What do you do to help new players? Yet I have only seen you complain about what others do.
    When did you last make an event or anything to help get more players to the shard?

    Could it be because she did buy cheap items, meant for newbies and sold them with advantage? It was not my items and not me who was "harassing her.

    And you sure prove, it's not that easy to kick some of the shard but you may feel the cold air from the community. I just look at you as a village idiot, all communities do have a few of them :p
     
    #35 FrejaSP, Jan 27, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  36. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    LOL typical bully Freja, a player confirms my dispute and you still refuse to blame yourself for anything. Yes it must be NEW PLAYERS FAULT that the shard is empty..............??? No.

    I've already done more for this shard than you've done your 10+ years spent here, as well as your time wasted on NEW2..........
     
  37. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    Typical Freja bullying tactics, time to call a spade a spade.

    See, everybody, this is what I'm talking about. Freja believes she speaks for more than herself, or that she actually represents siege perilous in some significant way........does she? No, of course not. She believes that her 10+ years on the shard amounts to something. Does it? No. Because people come and go.

    It's her bad attitude that continues to depopulate the shard. This "you will be shunned" threat. That's exactly what I'm talking about.


    However, in spite of this, I will make some positive changes for the shard where Freja has failed countless times. She just doesn't understand what Siege Perilous is all about.
     
  38. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    So far I've pinpointed 3 toxic Veteran members on Siege Perilous, who if quit logging in tomorrow, not only would they not be missed after a week, but the shard would grow exponentially and people would have a lot more fun all around. These 3 Vets I have in mind, should leave. I'm pretty certain its their attitudes which keeps the shard too low populated and really dissuades new players.

    Now, some of you will turn this around, and call me negative and whatnot. That's fine. I don't mind the heat. But time will tell the tale. Sometimes any change is better than no change.
     
  39. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Damn I think Katt hit you to hard with that frying pan. :lol:
     
  40. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    ok. I've read enough. This is just my opinion of you now:
    You, ApollyonSP are a complete idiotic fool who knows absolutely nothing about Siege. You've have been quoted making a statement like this and you continue to cry about Siege. It's time for you to leave Siege.
    And yes, I am a 16 year vet of Siege.
     
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  41. Kattasrophe

    Nothing But Trouble

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    I agree with you on that one...
     
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  42. Kattasrophe

    Nothing But Trouble

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    Okay I have an idea.. I just read every post of this and each time I just want to hit my head off a wall... anyways. So whats being said is Siege people do not help others and are rude? Okay.. welp guess what? We have 3 new people here as an perfect example of what could to become. Let's not point fingers anymore, lets try to fix this so called problem. 3 New people? Even if they don't accept armor, or the gold, we could always try asking if they want go on a dungeon run, or simply talk to them. Yes I know I haven't logged in much but dang it, I'm going to log in when I get home and try to help these new people.
     
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  43. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Katt... I would not worry about it too much. This fellow is all talk and little fact. It is rather easy to argue a particular point when you make up your own evidence. I have been paying attention to Apolly ever since he started this campaign of bashing shard vets and promoting his agenda.

    Sadly, other than ranting in get chat or on these forums, I have seen no evidence of Apolly having any impact on this shard at all.
     
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  44. Sprago

    Sprago Certifiable
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    ApollyonSP has 1 point, the players of siege do talk very negative about our shard and yet they still wonder why its so dead, Its not only VETS though its all players EXAMPLE threads like this one are horrible for our shard to ApollyonSP

    P.S. Freja i think you did a great job with NEW2 and wanna thank you for doing it.


    And yes im a Siege Vet of about 14 years
     
  45. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Secret Society

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    You've been here at Stratics long enough to know Aran. As someone mentioned, from time to time he shows up on Siege GC. Has Aran's posts at Stratics run you off? Of course not...so why would you let that happen in a shard general chat?

    While I would never tell you talk like that doesn't or hasn't happened, but from what I've seen in the few months I've been back...it doesn't happen much.

    With that said, so what if it happens? Yeah it sucks to get such crappy responses, but that's enough to get you to leave? If you stick around long enough, you'll see who the regulars are...and I've yet to see a regular respond in such a way (well except for Bo)...la
     
    Captn Norrington likes this.
  46. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I'm not sure you'll find anyone that disagrees with this first statement, everyone does, even the veterans you seem to claim want the shard all to themselves.

    Over the years, many of us have recruited for the shard and brought a lot of players over from the production shards. Some stay, other high tail it back to Trammel. Each for their own reasons but very few are the same...or what you are claiming...and this dates back long before there was a GC. I recall the IRC days (something I didn't spend a lot of time on) of Siege and the same accusations were made by others who didn't feel they were in the "cool kid" club.

    Do you know how they fixed their issues with the vets?

    They recruited players who had similar play styles as their own and created their own "cool kid clique". Maybe if you'd like to find more PKs for Siege...go out and recruit them. I certainly hope they don't get their feelings hurt and quit because of something some mean vet says in GC, but it could happen.

    You want to see GC get primeval (compared to today), recruit a bunch of trash talking PvPers/PKs. I've seen Atlantic's GC (many of those PvPers are old Siegers who love insurance), I'd say Siege is pretty damned tame compared to any active production shard...la
     
  47. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I don't think the vets are really out to get Ya.. The reality is, they rarely see anybody else other than the NPC's and since the NPCs don't put up a good fight, new blood makes their adrenaline run. It's like a wolf searching for prey in a desolate desert. The wolf isn't going to ask his desert dwelling sheep if they would like an escort to the safety of their pen..now would they? **** if ever saw anyone doing anything there when I log in randomly to kill someone i wouldnt ;)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  48. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I don't think the vets are really out to get Ya.. The reality is, they rarely see anybody else other than the NPC's and since the NPCs don't put up a good fight, new blood makes their adrenaline run. It's like a wolf searching for prey in a desolate desert. The wolf isn't going to ask his desert dwelling sheep if they would like an escort to the safety of their pen..now would they? **** if ever saw anyone doing anything there when I log in randomly to kill someone i wouldnt ;)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  49. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    I'm pretty sure you don't have to worry about any server evolving into either highly populated or thriving.
     
  50. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Gilfane

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    Perhaps your disdain for Siege "vets" stems from their reactions to quite a few statements you've made, like this one. Generally people are quite naturally "put off" by someone who feels that they are superior for whatever reason....
    You say you've already done more for Siege in your short (and very vocal) time here, than Freja has - which is beyond ludicrous - but since I'm the curious type, exactly what have you done?
    If respect is what you seek, you'll need to invest some time in the Humility virtue first....
    Just sayin........
     
    #50 startle, Jan 27, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
    Charles, Amber Witch, Becca and 3 others like this.