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Proficiency System

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Synn-Ash, May 1, 2008.

  1. Synn-Ash

    Synn-Ash Guest

    I was wondering what people's thoughts were about the proficiency system that was proposed by the dev team awhile ago. I'm curious why it was never implemented.

    http://update.uo.com/design_521.html
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I don't think anyone ever said why it wasn't used, my personal theory was it proved to be too complex to be workable.
     
  4. BadManiac

    BadManiac Guest

    Too complex, and the complete opposite of what UO stands for. It had to go, simple as that. If you want restrictive classes, there are a multitude of other games. UO is different, and in a good way.
     
  5. It was unpopular. Or, at the very least, not AS popular as it needed to be to justify such major changes.

    It was in its own way as difficult to work out as the diminishing returns system was (though aspects of diminishing returns have made their way into the game, so in its own way that proposal survived whereas proficiencies didn't).

    -Galen's player
     
  6. I think we can safely say that any comparison between UO and "Simplicity" can be all but disproven. Item Properties, Hard and Soft Caps on skills/properties, etc... they've all done nothing but add complexity.

    Maybe a new version of such a system could be discussed.

    My 2 gold coins.
     
  7. The system added a lot of complexity without giving anything back. Because of this, there was a lot of complaining. So instead, they just made it easier to get good items. Now people are tripping over decent items.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    It was a silly idea, that no one really cared for. Im glad they didnt do it, I play to play uo, not have a math assignment.
     
  9. Magnus

    Magnus Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    I personally really liked it, I liked what it stood for - Mainly a better way to customize your character, I really dislike how it wasn't even put to testing, I think it could have really worked nicely in UO.
     
  10. Synn-Ash

    Synn-Ash Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    The system added a lot of complexity without giving anything back. Because of this, there was a lot of complaining. So instead, they just made it easier to get good items. Now people are tripping over decent items.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't know if I'd say it didn't appear to give "Anything Back".

    Some of those proficiencies seemed to add a lot, most of which it appears that raw skills have compensated for. Take the DCI proficiencies for example - It's almost like a supplement to Bushido. Plus, it'd allow more diverse templates, available to all regardless of skills or equipment.

    Just seems like it would have added a great layer of differentiation between templates, making each more unique.

    Again, just an opinion.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    After doing a bit more digging on the forums, I believe that was the main argument about this proposed system that it was going to making crafters and artifacts less relevant. People who spent alot time building their 70 resist suits with mods. I could see why alot of people were upset; their gear that they spent time and effort to build was going to drop in value. But remember this was two years ago with no runic changes, no increased drop rates in Doom, etc..

    Now that 2 years have passed, UO has changed; new runic changes to smithing and tailoring, increased chances of high-end BODs, increased spawn rate of Doom artifacts and introduction of cursed arties have changed the environment. It's easier to get attain these items now.

    I believe the proficiency system would increase the diversity of templates as it mentioned above; it's an addition from the items that we have come accustomed to. I'm pretty sure everyone at least experienced one time building a template wishing the devs would create a specific item that had x and x for their character. With this system, there's no need for an item. You can just customize your character to what you need and go. Plus it makes your template a bit more unique than the typical "cookie-cutter".

    Would it unbalance the game a bit? I'm sure it will at first, but the devs can always tweak the system the to balance the game. It's not perfect, but it should be at least looked at for a rework.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    Worst idea ever born out of frustration by Mr Tact.

    Would have been a NIGHTMARE for the game and was rightly CANNED.
     
  12. It was no math assignment of any sort and KR would make it even less complex with its Paperdoll enhancements.

    It was about choice- whether you want to have more of [X] by forfeiting [Y] *IF* it suited your play-style.

    This system had great potential until the gimps convinced everyone it's a nightmare to figure out or that it limited Ultima's freedom to the point of Diablo 1 character selection.

    Like many systems, it should be added and tweaked on the way. It would have worked better than other systems, certainly better than the current one which is totally chaotic.

    With that system gone what did we get? Oh yeah. Same Sh, Different Publish.

    Just like PB. Panic spread because of ignorance.

    This argument is sooo dead by the way! [​IMG]
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    Diminishing Returns would have been MUCH LESS complex to deal with than Proficiancies, however for that to happen, we needed a character sheet that had all your worn mods listed, not just Resists and Luck.

    Fortunately we have the full character sheet info now with the KR client.

    As for another poster saying it would have created more diversity in templates, I'm 100% certain that it would have done the exact opposite. Once the optimal proficiency combination would have been found, that would have been the ONLY template you would see... until it would be nerfed, then the next one would arise and so forth.

    In short, the Proficiency System simply added too much complexity and wouldn't have solved ANYTHING.
     
  14. JoyousGard

    JoyousGard Guest

    This is all in jest, not trolling, and don't want replies, I just love long multiple column tables after work. Especially when they contain things like 'Frugality - LRC - 60% - 20%.'

    How far off the path do developers stray?? is a better topic for this thread.

    First off, there is not even a sentence that says what this is. Proficiency System: Cap this cap that. Makes me think 'complicated nonsense' right off the bat.

    THe whole thing seems overblown. It would give us one more thing to keep track of though.

    I would be in favor of whatever that table was if we took the square root of some of those table values in certain situations and then added a quantex multiplier (to the n, naturally) and maybe a derivative or a clerivative here and there for certain scenarios.

    n- equal to Julian day
    situation- defined as having x farthing points and
    scenario- defined as having y farthing points of the zeta vector

    AWESOME! (no, no, you must say 'AWESOME!' to initiate the proficiency which will last for a random amount of time with a range from 2 to 2000 server units of time)

    And to show your true commitment to the game,
    I'd also only like to make proficiency available to characters that have played without logging out for a minimum of 63 months (+.02 bonus iotas for each additional 1.3 days after 63 months) and have:

    a) killed 411,000 polar bears and turned in (without dropping any) one individual hide (no scissors!) from each kill (one at a time, no stacking).
    b) Collected 39,450 snake leather chaps spawned by the new "effeminate orcs." These are non stackable as well and will have a drop rate on par with seeing the one headed ettin.
    c) US Postal mailed 7,430 - individually bagged - single grains of sand collected from the rock quarry nearest your town (beach sand not allowed and must be quarry closest to your town, not further away than that)

    First to say 'AWESOME SQUARED!' wins the game and we shut it off for 2 weeks during reinitialization of proficiency. 2nd time around we multiply everything by 2 or 3 depending on the alphanumeric sequence of the first winner's Char Name.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ah, the road not travelled, the "plan B" after diminishing returns sparked an outrage. It was a fascinating approach to "soft caps", but it was felled by a fatal flaw: it was to be implemented as a nerf.

    As a white sheet approach to a power-limiting curve, it could have worked (perhaps suffered a bit too much WoW-envy: talent-tree style are a hard sell to mesh into the feel of UO). But it meant that everyone would have taken a power hit and then figured out how to build themselves back up. That's a bitter pill to swallow.
     
  16. Synn-Ash

    Synn-Ash Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    ...

    As for another poster saying it would have created more diversity in templates, I'm 100% certain that it would have done the exact opposite. Once the optimal proficiency combination would have been found, that would have been the ONLY template you would see... until it would be nerfed, then the next one would arise and so forth.

    In short, the Proficiency System simply added too much complexity and wouldn't have solved ANYTHING.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not sure if it was a plan to solve anything. From the looks of it, it was another way to add more options to the current templates with have now. You do make a good point about optimal proficiency combination, however, but doesn't everyone have an optimal character as it stands? Whether its a dexer, tamer, mage, etc. The only thing that differs is the gear each person wears + the person's experience &amp; skill on using that template. Would an extra customizable option on the current AOS item based system cause such an imbalance to UO that it ruins the game? For players who feel that AOS ruined the game, then maybe. But those players have either dealt with it or moved on. The system isn't as drastic as what most people think, it's just an add-on to the item-based system we have currently.

    As for the nerf stick coming and whacking templates, that's part of the game. We see it all the time when people complain a certain class is way too overpowered. But, most players adjust to the change and deal with it and find another template that is less overpowered. Sooner or later, everything will hit it's equilibrium point. That's part of the rebalancing process and part of the inefficiencies of the system. Again, it's not perfect but given feedback on how it could be improved and issues that should be addressed, I'm pretty sure it would be a viable system most players would enjoy.