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Proof that a Dwarf race is part of UO Lore

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lore Master, Oct 10, 2008.

  1. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    While up late and bored i decided to search online for UO Lore and i found some interesting pages that prove Dwarf do indeed have a part of UO lore heres some proof take a look at these links please this is one reason i believe Dwarf should be a playable race one day.
    1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_I
    2. http://www.the-spoiler.com/RPG/Origin/ultima.1.2.html
    3. http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=92113&TabID=833282
    I just figured it might be of some importance and interest when debating if Drawves should be a playable race or not in the future. I hope you enjoy the history here.
     
  2. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I take a firm stance that humans should be the only playable race.
     
  3. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    *puts hands over ears*

    LALALALALALA I can't hear you! LALALALALA!

    Although, I would like to play a Bobbit. And travel through space!
     
  4. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    Everyones different some want more races some want less races as for me i am happy that Elfs are in uo, i am also happy that Gargoyles will be a race and i hope one day Dwarf will be a race too in my opinion the more races the better.
    • I posted this in hopes that if players see proof that a Dwarf race has a part in UO history some might change there mind and be in favor of a Drawf race do i expect that not with everyone but hopefully with at least some it cant hurt to try.
     
  5. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    In all honesty, I was against races from the start, but that box has been opened and we can't put the evil back.

    So now most other races are just fine with me. But I'd like to see some more less than ordinary races in the game, such as Meer or Juka. I wouldn't like to see dwarves or some kind of halfling race (no matter what they're called, halfling, kender, hobbit, bobbit, whatever) since they can be played in most other MMO's. I'd like to see UO set apart from the rest in every way.
     
  6. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    *sigh* as its been said 1000024521340231030 times before, yes elves and dwarves were in Ultima once...BUT they removed from further sequals becase garriot didnt want such boring standard rpg races in his game.

    Ultima also had time travel and guns ans spaceships and what the hell ever... I guess those should be im UO too?

    I pray that UO never sees dwarves. We already have one of the trilogy of bland and over used fantsy races, and I think thats plenty.

    The only other standard fantasy race I would be fine with in UO would be orcs. Why? Because UO orcs are different than other orcs, and were defined and for years rped by some really dedicated people.

    But if you want more races, UO already has like 100 races that would all be cool, and better yet, far more origional such as: Meer, Juka, Ophidan, Therathan, Solen, Ratman, Lizardman, and so on. Any of which would be a vastly better option than dwarves or hobbits.
     
  7. Umm... didn't Bobbit like umm... get something cut?
     
  8. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Wrong Bobbit.

    (But yes.)
     
  9. Magnus

    Magnus Journeyman
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    The early Ultima games weren't really Ultima, they were more like 'What Richard Garriott thought was cool and put it in'. Not until Ultima III really, where that all pretty much disappeared, did it become really Ultima. However, I do think Bobbits should appear, I would so be a Bobbit Knight. Roar!
     
  10. BartofCats

    BartofCats Guest

    whats a Drawf??? I mean i have heard of Dwarfs but whats a Drawf?? is that like a dwarf with a head cold??

    Either way, doesnt matter. They will need something for some next expansion for AFTER SA.
     
  11. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I think it's a good thing that game creators and authors don't always listen to the "it's been done before" line when it comes to races. It doesn't mean a dwarf race can't be done in a creative and different way, or that it can't lead to enjoyable games and fiction. There's a reason why these races have become "stock" races, people apparently like them. I'd love to see weird and wonderful races, but not everyone wants to play a snake or rat or would know how to. Which is why we should have a decent variety of races, "stock" and unique. If you still wanted just to be a human, well just be a human.

    But I think this argument will simply go round in circles. So IMO, rather than get folks complaining because "it's not original enough" let's just give players better options to customise their characters themselves. Let us change height, weight and age of our characters and if we want to make a dwarf we can, or if we want to play someone who's just short and dumpy, we can do that too. Old granny? Make yer own. RPers like myself just want freedom to RP a variety of characters.

    Wenchy
     
  12. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    We already have space travel, walk to the edge of a land area in Malas. ;)
    And as to Time Travel, we're almost due another seasonal slew of begging for Pre-AoS, Pre-Ren, etc shards.


    UO has very little to do with Ultima. A good example is the fact that players can attack and kill other players, which is in direct opposition to the core of Ultima's virtue lore.
     
  13. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    Hey, give me the option of a shorter, fatter human and I'll be happy with my 'dwarf'. I'd take playable Orcs and Gargoyles over any of those other mentioned 'races'.

    I feel that if you have elves then you gotta have dwarves, it's a balance. You have an overly magical race(Elves) & an overly physical race(Dwarves). Then you have Human, somewhat magical, somewhat physical. That doesn't come from other video games, that come from fantasy novels I've read. Mostly Tolkien, R.A. Salvatore & Robert Jordan. (expects excuses about 'standard fantasy') Give me novel about Meer and Juka, have them be as entertaining as dwarven and elven stories, then I might consider them as a possibility. Until then they are soleless, to me.

    I feel that people empathise with Elves and Dwarves because they look so much more like us than do other races.

    I don't expect that Dwarves will ever be introduced into UO. I guess I get a little annoyed when people say that something base in the (medevil)fantasy culture can/should not be in a (medevil)fantasy game.
     
  14. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    I was just thinking the same thing. I don't know how possible it would be to have different char heights/weights in UO, atleast in 2D. Some of the Sprites could be stretched/skewed possibly, but no guaranteeing how that would look/work. Animations of an arm in a verticle position would look different than a horizontally stretched out arm. So I guess all new work would need to be done. That is the main reason why I doubt I'll ever see dwarves.

    All new sprites & animation would need to be done. I guess like they are doing with Gargoyles.
     
  15. Zalan

    Zalan Babbling Loonie
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    I believe the next playable race should be Mongbats not Gargys. A Mongbat could be very feric in PvP.
     
  16. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    It is a difficult question: What should be the Ultima races?

    Going from the first few Ultimas, the standard fantasy races are playable (human, elf, dwarf, halfling-clone bobbits). All the human/animal crosses of Mondain (minotaur, orcs, goblins) and Minax (lizardmen) are there as well. I do like how with the last expansion the mythos of the minotaur relates back to Mondain's work. I know there were explanations in the early games why some of the other races weren't in UO originally (apparently Mondain unleashed a bobbit-killing plague). I think there was also an alien race in the space ships in Ultima 1 that came back in another Origin non-Ultima game.

    Gargoyles are a classic Ultima race with many of the plot-vital games containing reference to them. I think in some ways they are the most Ultima of any species.

    Meer and Juka were originally designed for Ultima Online 2, and were borrowed for Ultima Online, when the other project died. Lizard-like or cat-like people aren't exactly original, no matter the names. However, their lore directly relates to us. Of course, this spell that trapped them for centuries is either deep stasis or time travel. Very sci fi. Combined with cyborgs and space-floating continents, Ultima once again borrows from sci fi. While there is specific plot for Ultima to contain everything (including kitchen sinks), there should be an attempt to make it make sense.

    Gargoyles are fine with me. Meer and Juka are fine. Orcs are fine (people play them, they have always been in game and plot-important, and they relate to Mondaine). I know people talk about this ripping off WoW, but people have roleplayed orcs in UO before WoW existed. Dwarves may be fine. No to bobbits (though the old child forms could be useful for this). Some of the less human humanoids (ratmen, lizardmen, trolls, ogres, minotaur) I would suggest against.
     
  17. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Dwarves were an "Ultima" race back before Ultima really had an identity of its own.

    While they might be ok as a race in UO, there are as mentioned quite a few other races ingame that deserve recognition LONG before dwarves do.

    As it is, I'm not a big fan of creating the separate races with abilities and whatnot. If races are in UO, they should be nothing more than cosmetic changes to the paperdoll and ingame character.

    The KR body sculptor should have been as far as UO went with races IMO.
     
  18. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    To heck with dwarves... I want to play fuzzies again:scholar::lick::lick:
     
  19. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    As long as we're thinking up ways of completely ruining our beloved UO, I could go for an in-game version of my AR for my archer.
     
  20. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    I'm not steadfastly against dwarves as a playable race, but under this line of reasoning we should also see the return of hot air balloons and spaceships in UO. I'm not quite prepared for that. There is so much more compelling lore to the Ultima series and I think the Dev team is eager to explore those parts of Ultima and bring them to us.

    The story in the gameportal link is very interesting, I can definitely see the possibility of dwarven hands in the creation of Despise, but I fail to see much of that same kind of construction in Wind. Well, there is the passage north to the exit, that might work, but the town itself does not have that expansive, sturdy construction feel to it. And I think you would be very hard pressed to find Ultima Online lore to support it. It's a neat idea though.

    *edit*Oh and if we were to see Dwarves, I would have to make an impassioned plea for NO shotguns, muskets or other projectile firearm type creations! I personally have always had a problem with the cannonade.
     
  21. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I'd prefer minotaurs over dwarves. Yeah dwarves are cool and all... but just about every game has them. They make great crafters and great tanks...but it'd be nice to have something different from the other games.

    Elven equipment needs a graphics change. The armor and clothing is hideous. The only armor I like on elves it the helms (plate/wooden) the whole circlet look is just lame.
     
  22. I want my crafter to be a dwarf... or a tinker gnome *grins*
     
  23. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    We have ninja and samurai running around, whats the harm with dwarfs at this point?
     
  24. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    Sorry i spelled Dwarf wrong thanks for correcting me i fixed my post with the right spelling,
     
  25. ShadowJack

    ShadowJack Guest

    I think races in UO are dumb too


    I can see people getting banned for interspecies racism already
     
  26. Dicimiie

    Dicimiie Guest

    I want to play a lizardman. I think that would be fun. However, I also think that UO should have stayed with one race only. Or if nothing else, they should have made orcs the first "other race."
     
  27. Fresley

    Fresley Journeyman
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    You can never ruin something with 100% awesome.
     
  28. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I don't think putting elves and the coming Gargoyles into UO has or will ruin anything... infact I see it enhancing gameplay and roleplay.... and I NEVER complain about enhancing roleplay.... I already have a character I consider to BE a Dwarf... he's a Treasure Hunter... his name is Rik Gemtracker.... and he enjoys digging up gems.....

    Certainly I would LIKE for other people to see him as a dwarf ... but if the gods that be never allow that, it's still fine by me... I know what he is... even if he doesn't exactly "look" the part.

    I would rather see meer and Juka added before Dwarfs.... But that's just me. I think a variety of races is just fine.....

    I really like the one suggestion about being able to "chose" your body style... and then you can call yourself whatever you like.... that would be just dandy with me.
     
  29. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Pft, a dwarf race. Imagine how they would look in 2d graphics... a really stubby version of a human, lol. Then imagine how they would look walking around with a halberd, lol.

    Now, what they really should add in as a race, is the Dev race or GameMaster Race. Now that would be awesome.

    Or better yet, I wanna play as a cow or a sheep. Now that would be awesome!
     
  30. chrisjwhite

    chrisjwhite Visitor
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    We should have...
    Humans
    Orcs
    Juka
    Meer (There was a Kilrathi like SpaceShip in Ultima VII on a farmers field. (Who also had the "Hoe of Destruction" I think it was called)
    Gargoyles

    and I still want my Ultima VII's Flying Carpet.
     
  31. I hate races. I think humans should have stayed the only playable class. just my opinion...
     
  32. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Dwarves and Bobbits were both in Ultima III, as were elves and the other race (Fuzzies?)- at least in the NES version of the game.
     
  33. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    No dwarfs.
     
  34. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
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    So when I got attacked by bandits in Ultima 7, those NPCs were "metagaming"?

    UO has EVERYTHING todo with Ultima. It allows people to follow the virtues or not. That's a social experiment. Just like real life allows people to follow laws or moral ideals, or not.
     
  35. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    I never followed the virtues in any of my fav Ultima games. In U6 i stole everything i saw. beat it once with god karma, ONCE. damn....this thread is making my wanna play runes of vitrueII for snes. any of you all played that?
     
  36. Xel Naga

    Xel Naga Guest

    Don't worry EA devs are trying to copy WoW and other popular MMOs so you will probably see dwarves, gnomes, undead, centaurs, and probably vorpal bunnies in the near future as playable races !
     
  37. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
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    They tried to prevent that though, this is really a manipulation of gameplay mechanics, metagaming as it were.

    Some people used to player-kill to grief or cause fun, some did it because they wanted their character to be evil. Heck some did it because a mage dropped an expensive bag of regs as opposed to a dragon who was harder to kill and didn't drop as much gold.

    The point though is that if you don't follow the virtues, the game will treat you differently to someone who does.

    Just like someone who (in theory) doesn't follow the virtues in UO and kills and steals is treated differently by the game and other players.
     
  38. Don't we have enough humanoid type races in the game. The closest I think UO should ever come to another human race is a centaur, and even that is a half ass idea.
     
  39. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Bobbits and Fuzzies! Yeaaaah!

    :bdh: :postcount:
     
  40. lorail

    lorail Guest

    If there is a humanoid race it should be player playable this includes lizardmen cyclops titains well you get the picture. think of all the fun there chould be All the wars. Just all around fun
     
  41. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    I'm with you Lore Master. I'd be glad to see Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings, gargolyes and bobbits...whatever. I ready for new content and enhanced gameplay.

    Hell I'd love to play a Centaur too!
     
  42. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I would love avatar customization, so thats one thing we can agree on.
    And so would I prefer gargoyles and orcs over any of the ones I listed (cept ratmen, but I recognize my bias on that score :love:), but I would take any of those over dwarfs and hobbits any day. I would rather have no races than dwarfs and hobbits. I for one am sick to death of them, and never found them that interesting in the first place.

    You actually don't have to adhere to all the fantasy novels to have a valid and engrossing game world. I mean there are lots of things I enjoy about lots of other fantasy worlds that I wouldn't want to see in UO. Because they belong to thier own worlds and don't fit into Ultima.

    Anyway if you want to go on terms of character strengths, Then gargoyles would fit the spot for dwarfs nicely. They are stronger than humans, and less magical than elves. They live underground, and enjoy crafting (although I always thought crafting should be a human trait). Now just make them short, hairy, surly, greedy, (inexplicably) Scottish drunks, then you've got a dwarf... with wings.

    I feel that you gave the masses who beg for the standard a bone with elves, from now on its time to be true to Ultima/UO.

    Will a trilogy about them do?

    Machinations (Ultima: The Technocrat War book 1)

    Masquerade (Ultima: The Technocrat War, Book 2)

    Maelstrom (Ultima: The Technocrat War, Book 3)

    :/

    I feel that people relate to them because that's what they are used to. A race doesn't have to look like you for you to be able to relate to it. Especially made up ones.

    That's the point. Its "base". Why bother? It has already been done, said, and experienced 100 times before, and in better mediums that UO can provide. Ultima was never about being a standard fantasy game. IT was unique and made its own set of core beliefs and characters. Since this is indeed Ultima online, not Warcraft/Warhammer/Dungeons & Dragons/Lord of the rings Online, it only makes sense to me to stick with the concepts and denizens of the Ultima universe, which stuggled so obviously to not be clones of fantasy worlds that already existed, and to take it a step further, why look to one of these unrelated fantasy series for a new race when there is a laundry list of already functioning UO specific npc races scattered across the UO map. Wouldn't it make more sense to pick one of those?

    It would to me.
     
  43. There really isn't a need to add a race after the Gargoyals. Skills can be added one or two at a time like they did when adding the necro and paladins. UO will have added one good race and one evil one.
     
  44. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    If the game lasts, it will have more races. Good or bad.
     
  45. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Dwarves should be at the bottom, or very near the bottom, of any new race additions to UO. They aren't a part of UO, at all. Other races that are a part of UO should be made playable long before adding something new that isn't a part of UO already.

    The list of races that ARE a part of UO that should be made playable is long enough without having to add races that aren't-

    Orcs
    Meer
    Juka
    Lizardmen
    Ettins
    Trolls
    Centaurs

    In no particular order of course. Orcs have a very long history in UO even without that race being added officially as a playable one. Making them a true playable race would just make much more sense that adding a race to the game that isn't a part of it already.
     
  46. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I personally find it somewhat insulting that while there have been orc & dwarf roleplayers since almost Day One, there was little organized Elf roleplay (just people running around with names cribbed from Tolkien or D&D)- but it was Elves that became the first race added to the game.

    I can understand not adding Bobbits or Fuzzies.

    But, if I had been in charge of adding races to the game, it would have been as follows (in order)

    Orcs, meer & juka (Juka would be restricted to Ilshenar and Felucca, and would be auto-red; Meer couldn't enter Fel). This would be adding 3 races at once, as part of an expansion/remodeling of T2A and outer Ilshenar.
    Dwarves, Gargoyles & Trolls. Remodeling Central Ilshenar, and adding Stygian Abyss.

    THEN I'd have considered elves, and a ML-style expansion.
     
  47. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I think when people pick a race it can reflect on their attitude or the type of people they are, kinda like a physological imprint that appeals to them because it is who they are. Also, they are able to play out their feelings with actions, that's what makes races so important.

    I've always wanted to be strong and able to swing an axe and take a super hit that would smash most mens bones. To me this is a dwarf. They are not to smart though and I believe they live inside of mountains and I don't think they bathe. But to each his own.

    Humans I agree are the mid range but that's simply because everything else comes from them. So, of course, the human can do anything any race can do, just not as good.

    Elves are supposed to be good with a bow and have super fast reflexes and some kind of magic way of thinking, that's what I think anyway.

    I think you should be able to morph as a mage into alot of different types, where you could roleplay. They would just have to add alot more detail to those types. For example: You could find loot on orcs, clothing they wear, weapons they use, and then as your morphed you could use them.

    It would be great to see the races added slowly, but I think the whole concept needs to be added, kinda like when they added the elves. It gets kind of confusing to me if we have a gargoyle race do we remove gargoyle spawn or will they just not attack us as a gargoyle and do they call the same place home??

    I've always wanted to see more detail added to spawns. It's kinda like the same thing as races. Like lizards live in those huts but you never see lizard eggs, lizard babies. There are no lizard clothes, lizard weapons, they just seem to pop up out of nowhere and they don't seem to do anything but attack people.

    They don't have jobs. I think the orcs are miners but I never see them mining. So, I think adding race also means thinking about the spawn.