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Proposal for a Gold Sink: Provide players the opportunity to purchase EM items after the event

Discussion in 'UHall' started by The Predator, Sep 7, 2012.

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Do you think EM items should be available for purchase at the end of the event?

  1. Yes

    37.5%
  2. No

    46.9%
  3. Maybe

    12.5%
  4. Other - Please specify in thread

    3.1%
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  1. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    The whole purpose of these EM items, as I have been told by the Event Moderators themselves, is a token of participation and a momento from the actual event. However, this has spun out of control and become more a necessity for players to profit from these items, instead of enjoying the actual event.

    My proposal would be the following:

    • Allow all partcipants the ability to buy one (1) EM item if it is available as a drop during the event
    • The price should be set to a high amount (I.E - 50 to 100 Million), hence the gold sink aspect of this proposal
    • Continue to provide EM items as drops, and the reward itself will still be a grand gesture
    • Only allow active accounts (Non-RTB or Trial Accounts) to receive rewards
    • Provide access to the "EM Item Redemption" via a Moongate after the event is over for a small period of time
      • This is to limit people just waiting at the end of an event to purchase the item
      • This would encourage the character to partcipate during the event to purchase the item at the end

    I believe the system would work tremendously as a gold sink, provide other players an opportunity to purchase these momentos of the event for a reasonable price, and cease the amount of debaucheries around the inflated rare market. I think the whole point of the program is for players to have fun, not to attend the events and profit of the items. If a person would like to choose to obtain a momento, then so be it. But yet again, that is just my opinion.

    At least, this would prevent certain individuals who sell items for a ludacris price, or buy up the stock pile to inflate the market. Everyone would have a fair chance at the item, not just a limited amount of characters.

    I have also included a poll -- please feel free to cast your vote on this proposal.

    Thank you.
     
    Athelas likes this.
  2. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    #1 Rares collectors will hate this.
    #2 Your price is way to high for the norm player, rares collectors will love this.
    Overall BAD idea. With those prices no one is going to buy so it is a failed gold sink.
     
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  3. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    I agree that Rare Collectors may hate this, due to the fact they are typically the ones that are profitting off of this. The pricing is subjective -- I am not sure what makes sense -- but I do not believe that it the whole purpose of event items it to profit off of them. That seems to be the main driving factor on why people attend events to begin with...just look at what people say at the end of the event: "is there a drop?", "where is my item?" etc...

    Yet again, it is my opinion. Doesn't mean that I am right, or wrong. If anyone has any other suggestions to add or tailor to this.....by all means.
     
    yars likes this.
  4. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    Lucky! I've seen on Europa someone ask before the event if there's an item so they know if it's 'Worth going to..'. Those people ruin the experience for everyone else that just wants to have fun.
     
  5. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    And what's to stop those people with tons of gold and multiple accounts from gating in multiple characters, or people who would gate in rich guildmates who don't even bother going to the events, to buy an item which they'll still sell at an inflated price?

    I'm sure there are many who would want a memento who don't have that kind of gold to toss away at every event (myself included), and if they want an item bad enough, they'll save and pay essentially whatever price they're told, which I'm positive will be more than what was paid at the event itself.
     
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  6. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    I agree that there are a lot of different variables that come into play where this situation could be manipulated (as you suggested above) -- but you could try to limit it to the best of the game mechanics. I know there was an instance where on Atlantic a gate was opened for a "clicky" item, but as soon as the EM noticed other individuals trying to gate other people in, he removed the statue that had the item. So, I think it is not "full proof" by any stretch, but it could work.

    And I get it --- it is supply or demand. I think it is just the market that infuriates me. I think if it is a momento ... maybe it should be account bound so the user does not profit from the item --- but that is also unrealisitic and doesn't allow players to trade for items they truly want.
     
    #6 The Predator, Sep 7, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
  7. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, I've seen the Atlantic EMs do that on occasion. However, removing the statue is, as far as I'm concerned, a double-edged sword. Sure, they're preventing some who are only after the profit from getting multiple items to sell, but at the same time, they're also punishing the masses who actually attended the event and earned their memento if they're not quick enough to get to the statue before the gates start to open.

    Yes, supply and demand infuriates me too sometimes. I'm by no means rich, and I have items that I'd love to have that I simply can't afford. I just don't believe that selling event items after the event is really going to change anything for the better.
     
  8. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Buy for 50 when it becomes rare sell for 150..gj I'll take it
     
  9. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    I assume this would take some dev work to set up to do what exactly? Your system doesn't seem to do much except confirm that to most people believe "EM event = chance at item." Wouldn't this change the common complaint only slightly:

    "I didn't have fun, and I didn't get a reward."
    to​
    "I didn't have fun, so why would I spend millions to remember that?"
    I've had fun at some EM events and been bored at others. There are a lot of elements that make a good or bad event, yet we only talk about item drops. Rather than trying to teach our EMs to plan better events, we just confirm to them that we are the little kids who eat an entire box of cereal they hate because they want the crappy plastic toy inside.​
    Since I'm not trying to troll, I will give a quick run down of events I liked:​
    1. Casca's reign and getting attacked on the Britain streets by his thugs​
    2. Killing Clainin with Melissa and the Shadowlords Faction​
    3. Killing Exodus finally after all these years​
    Please use dev and EM time to make more buildings explode and more giant epic monsters rather than special NPC vendors for expensive deco.​
     
  10. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Haven't had a clicky item on GL's for ages. Not liking the new system since looting is still obviously borked. No way you can do as much damage as I've been doing along with healing and rezing and all that and come up empty handed time and time again.

    Tired of it.
     
    claudia-fjp likes this.
  11. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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    epic fail. more important things to work on.
     
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  12. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    My recommendation is that if you have no value to add to this thread, you should avoid posting in it. If you think it's an "epic fail" then at least explain why. Otherwise, your comment is pointless.
     
  13. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    i like the idea myself,should be like going to a concert and getting the t shirt afterwards.
     
  14. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    I'd rather see more people (i.e. all who actually participated) receive souvenir items from an EM event than just 10-20 people handed an item which most of them will just sell.

    I honestly don't give a damn about the "rares market" either, EM events shouldn't be about making the next big ticket item or making a few people stupidly rich. More often than not, these items leave their original shard and wind up in the hands of an elitist crowd - completely defeating the spirit of community and the reason these events were created for in the first place.
     
  15. HD2300

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    UO makes a lot of money from RMTers. By design EM events and drops cater to them. Psssst any one want to buy a +5 stats for $150. Although it takes 10 minutes development time to make a +5 drop off any creature, for some strange reason there is a 6 month delay for this to happen. Wonder why? LOL.
     
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  16. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    I would agree with this as well. There are some serious collectors out there --- and I will pay my homage to them --- however, the bulk majority is just looking to make a buck. Hmmm....maybe the solution is to make all event drops as "clicky" items. That way everyone gets a memento, and the market doesn't flood with people try to sell them for such a premium. Sure, some people may profit off of it, but the more the supply, my thought is that there will be less of a price tag.
     
  17. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Sorry, but let's keep the "everybody gets something for participating" to the goofy little leagues out there that still do that. The only way I think something like that should ever be implemented is in addition to the normal "rare" EM Items.
     
  18. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Solve the problem the simple way, anyone who goes through the gate to the event gets the item, blessed, put in his backpack immediately as a memento. That will make the item so common that it will be of no value for sale and of no interest to rares collectors. The things would be a dime a dozen as the saying goes. Problem solved.
     
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  19. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    I've been saying this for three years now.

    Give me an F-ing break. This is a game and is supposedly designed to be "fun." We aren't a bunch of little kids needing our egos stroked like special little snowflakes. However, when items that are designed to be mementos (as stated by EMs) become the sole reason a vast majority of people even attend an event, there is a problem. Compound that with the self-important collectors that pay insane sums to acquire these items and the sad habit of said items to leave the shard they were intended for. It's also rather sickening to watch people who grief an event getting an item and then trying to sell it for 100+ million in general chat 10 mins later.

    Either get rid of the items completely so focus can return to the actual story, or remove the faux rarity of the items and return them to souvenir "I was there" status by giving one to everyone who actively participated* in the event. Even though I personally like EM items, I'm completely in favor of removing them from all future events.

    *The best way I have seen this done was an EM randomly gating participants to an otherwise unreachable place without any warning (i.e. during the middle of the event) where there was a clicky.
     
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  20. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    Why not add a 15th Anniversary Token for sale from the Origin store which gives a small collection of replicas from popular EM or UO historical events?
     
  21. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    As a rare collector i think this would be a good gold sink especially in light of recent Em events ;)
     
  22. Athelas

    Athelas Lore Keeper
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    So in other words everything should always work out as intended?

    While I agree a gold sink is needed, like the structure of this idea and I also like that this is a solution rather than just prattle, I think there is some confusion as to what a collector is. The idea that a collector attends an event just to get an item and then sell it sort of goes against the whole idea. I think what you are referring to is a Rares Seller or just seller in general. It might all seem the same to those that don't necessarily understand it, but its a very different thing. I don't sell anything unless I need the gold to buy something else, otherwise I keep it.

    If all collectors sold everything they won, all those museums would be pretty boring.
     
    #22 Athelas, Sep 7, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
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  23. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    Just no (and this is all just my opinion).

    EM items are for participating in the event. While I may not be a fan of people just showing up for the item, not much can be done about it. I am totally against account bound/soulbound items and what the secondary market does with the EM items is up to them. It's a freedom UO allows and should continue to allow.

    That said, EM event items should only be dropped with the event in mind, not with the concerns of the secondary market in mind. What's rare today might not be tomorrow.
     
  24. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    I think you hit this fact spot on .... there is a big difference between the concept of an actual "Rare Collector" and "Rare Seller" --- unfortunately, it seems that most people attend events with the hope of making a buck. If the mentality was that people would actually keep the items the obtained from an event as opposed to turning a profit, I wouldn't find this a big deal. Also, as I've eluded previously, if the idea is to make these items a memento, why just to a select few out of luck? Why not "share the wealth"? I think the only problem with this is in the eyes of the "Rare Sellers" and no one else.

    Level the playing field for all. Make it about the event, not the items. The program is about the events, not players trying to turn a profit.
     
  25. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    Well the EM items don't exactly go the the people that play on those shards. I should know i have an event character on every shard to farm Event items. I also know about every other collector does this as well. A gold sink using EM items such a a gold turn in would decrease a good amount of gold in game and then everyone not just the extreme collectors would have chances at getting items. I think your onto something with this post!
     
  26. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    It may have some potential for sure --- but as long as it is restricted --- it could be beneficial. Someone brought up a good point about having multiple accounts just buying up the items and then re-selling them at a later point. But, I guess in theory, most of the people that really want event items usually show up to the events....so if they are there, they should have a fair chance of getting them with this system, thus, the would be less of a demand for other players to buy the items from a re-seller using a multiple accounts.

    There are several caveats with any proposal; but I think the main factor here is that it can provide several opportunities to remove the high amount of gold in this game and eliminate the "Rare Seller Black Market" who are typically are profiting from the existing system.

    I wouldn't even stop with just EM items, how about server birth items? I am sure there are several people out there that would love the chance to get their hands on some nice decorative server birth items if they were re-established into the game for a premium price.

    And I will also take it from the flip side of a serious rare collector --- I wouldn't want some of these hard earn items to lose their prestige and rarity. I have several unique items that I would hate to lose their luster.....so how do you find the happy medium?

    Maybe, have existing drops for those who earn them (typically process) but also offer a different item to purchase that is available to everyone.

    Who knows.....just tossing out a bunch of different ideas and hope that somewhere along the lines, something will stick.
     
  27. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I don't really care about rares. I'm happy for my masks painted of Mesanna and they look good on my wall and remind me about an event I was too.
    I also have a white knight robe from the olympia event. As I'm from EU and play on Siege, I had not been able to go to many events so this 2 items is special to me.
    Should I be able to buy items from event I was not going to? I don't think so as I was not to the event.
    Would I sell my events items? Never as they mean something to me.
    Would I buy an event item? Maybe but not because it a rare but because it would be useful to me.
    Would I pay mills for it, never.
    I do have a an other painted mask, painted by Uriah. I have now idea where it came from, I just found it on a vendor and it did not cost alot, so it did fit fine together with my mesanna mash.
    As long the items from the events are only deco items, it's all fine, I only get them if I show up at the event. If they was useful and over powered in PvP, I would hate them to be for the few and I would be even more mad if I had to pay kills to get something to complete in PvP. If they was just a copy of an existing PvP non expensive item but with a different art, I would not mind some getting them at events.
     
  28. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I just had a thought...how about Event tokens...and a event stone to purchase items..you earn tokens from events and all EM items are on the stone..from cheap to super expensive it could take months upon months to save..and you could sell your tokens..it's a quite simple system to implement and would add a higher interest in events all together and maybe get a weekly event schedule..pvp Mage duels winner gets 5k tokens etc etc could really boost participation on a all around level

    ..everything stays rare for non participants..and everything is fairly attainable not just by RNG or damn I missed that specific event due to work or whatever
     
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  29. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    I can only speak for Atlantic, but it always seems to be very active (50+ players) for each event that I attend. Unfortunately, the lag can be pretty intense during these times. The frequency of events has been pretty consistent in my opinion.
     
  30. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    How about just stop giving out items at EM events and let the events be about the event itself and not about items. At least then the EMs will know that those who participate are there because they appreciate the events and the work the EMs put into it and not just to get an item to sell 5 mins later.

    And anyone who wants a "memento" from the event can just take screenshots and have those to remember the event...
     
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  31. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    I still say if it ain't broke don't fix it, and contrary to the opinion to those who whine... it ain't broke. The drops now drop in your pack, so you do not have to find a corpse in the mob. You also have the ability to get a drop even on a noob character with the healing changes that were recently made. If you want an option to buy the items, that option already exists via the free market system we have in UO.
     
  32. HD2300

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    50 characters x 30 shards = ~1500 characters
    Atlantic is the most populated shard, so a better estimate would be ~1000 characters participating in EM events
    Now there are many multi-shard players with characters on multple shards, so you are looking at only ~500 players involved in EM events
    Seems like an inordinate amount of effort and money, dev and 30 EMs, is being spent just for 500 players.
    imo if in the last 3 years all that effort and money was instead spent keeping all UO players happy instead of 500, we would have more UO p(l)ayers now.
     
  33. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    All that money and effort? You do realize the EM's (who are players on a shard other than they are EM on) make dang near nothing to come up with plot lines, fiction, creatures etc. While I can't speak for other shards, I would be more than willing to bet if you calculate the hours Bennu and Tiberies (Atlantic) spend in a month on it they are making under a buck an hour. They do it for the players and for the love they have of UO.
     
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  34. LordDrago

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    I would have to disagree with your valuation of dev time (besides what Kylie said above), you are, possibly advocating zero dev time being used for factions, and possibly PvP in general, based upon a low percentage of people participating.

    There a probably a lot of areas with relatively low player participation, which use dev time. eliminating development or dev time in these, will seriously impact what is UO.
     
  35. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    Agreed, Athelas. Some also sell items to fund themselves to BUY other event items that are more appropriate to their museum theme. I don't personally attend many events, but I am a collector and I am very particular about what goes in my home.

    I'd be okay with the above proposal and even the cost being lower to make them more affordable for the average player if there was some text to differentiate between the event given and the souvenir afterwards. Perhaps something like the [replica] system, but with souvenir instead. I personally am a bit of a purist and don't like dates, shards or additional tags on my collection, so I would still be interested in purchasing an item from the event if I wanted the graphic, even with a more common version out there.
     
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  36. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Hmmmm....

    I could definitely get on board with that being the case. [Souvenir] tag on top line sounds like a winner to me.
     
  37. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    BANG ON THE BUTTON...THE WHOLE IDEA OF EM EVENTS IS TO ENJOY THE EVENT AND GET A MOMENTO,,,

    Not get some CRAZY all singing dancing unique item that can be sold for 2 billion gold...its all about player participation and interaction...not greed and falling out whos got what...put an end to this stupidity now!!!
     
    #37 THP, Sep 10, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  38. Athelas

    Athelas Lore Keeper
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    The thing that bothers me about all of this is it seems to be very anger driven. Why is everyone so put out?
    Is it because:

    A. Someone got something and I didn't
    B. Someone sold an item for a lot
    C. Someone won something and is transferring it off shard
    D. I mussed my hair during the event (this I understand)
    E. Explain answer

    I rarely win anything at events, I suppose I could change my templates, but I've always been rather fond of the ole Chiv Archer. If you go into the event expecting an item there is a good chance you will be disappointed. I can count maybe 7 or 8 things I've won total. But even so I've never found myself getting angry over the fact that someone else won something that I did not. There is always next time. While I agree that some of the inflated prices can be annoying, that has pretty much always been the case. If someone has something that someone or a group wants they are going to go with the highest bid every time with few exceptions.

    I only ask all of this because it is important to make decisions like this for the right reason. A gold sink is certainly needed, but is this the route to take? If its because of something silly like jealousy or even for personal gain than I vote no.
     
  39. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    I agree with you on this, Athelas. I think the only concern that I have, which leaves a rather bitter taste in my mouth, is that there is a crowd that only attends these events for the item and potential dollar signs. I proposed this as a way to hit many different facets, such as the possibility of a gold sink, providing players and opportunity to obtain these items, and prevent the profitability from these items.

    No hostility coming from this corner. Just tossing out an idea that could have some potential.
     
  40. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    So let's just turn Ultima Online into a socialist state....

    Everyone should get something at every event?

    So, I spend YEARS creating and developing players on each shard, toiling over the suits to create the best blend of defense capabilities and also enough spell damage to TRY to get into the upper reaches of the TOP damagers....

    and....

    Some lazy S.O.B. that has no inclination to put any effort into their templates or suits or any planning at all can just show up on a complete and utter newbie player and get the same thing that I get? These players sit in their UO homes deco-ing all day then ***** because they don't know how to kill a monster.

    No thanks.

    You want to be sour grapes about not getting items, I say: get off your butt and make a viable character to participate in these events.
    It is not a coincidence that the same people get MANY of the drops at these events, they almost ALL have the same templates/suits!

    Come on, it isn't brain surgery.
     
  41. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    Maybe you should re-read the argument and proposal first, Lykor. I never said that everyone should get something at every event just for showing. I proposed an option that would allow players to pay "x" amount of gold to get an item after an event (any maybe as one user suggested, a "souvenir tag" version of the drop). I never said that we should just "give" event items away to everyone at every event. Allow drops for those who get them, and then provide opportunities for other players to buy them for "x" amount of gold.

    The only people that may have a real "issue" with this is someone that has been known to turn a profit buy selling these items for a outlandish price.

    I find it humorous, but not surprised, that you would twist this post into that manner. Try reviewing it again.
     
  42. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    I disagree what would offering the dropped item as a replica hurt? These are just items for deco ect and could be a potential huge gold sink! I prob have a good portion of these items and I am all for allowing players to spend gold to buy these (its a good gold sink). Maybe do a NPC or two per shard and have 10-15 items a month and rotate them every month like the new dyes in the clean up brit. Yes I get plenty of drops when i attend events and yes I also buy many of them but would love the option to buy replica versions in case i miss an event or just want an item.
     
  43. Athelas

    Athelas Lore Keeper
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    Well for starters, what exactly is it that you disagree with? Well informed decisions for the right reasons? I have never said anything about replicas or why they would hurt.

    If its just about deco than why make them event items at all, why not just make Npc's that offer original graphic or historical shard items for a limited time available for purchase? It could be a similar system to the spring cleaning npcs. Instead of offering them for months it could be limited to a week or so. As a student of Atlantic history I for one would certainly take advantage of that.
     
  44. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    I'm glad I could provide you with a laugh, happy monday to you.

    But, no where did I quote a specific post of yours in my response.

    I was responding to the people that think each event should be "clicky only".

    There are parts of your idea that I certainly like, so I have no idea why you say that you're not surprised by me "twisting" the post.

    Who are you in-game or what name do you trade with? You seem to know me but I have no idea who you are.

    I have been on the up and up for years here, and certainly entitled to my opinion.

    No "review" necessary of any post you have made.
     
  45. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    My apologies then, I thought that was directed towards my original proposal since it was posted here and you didn't quote anyone in particular.

    I go by the name of Oblivion. I believe you have heard of me. :D
     
  46. Rumpy

    Rumpy Slightly Crazed
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    EM Events are already a gold sink for some players.

    Our last Event was the "Siege Olympics". We were split into 3 teams
    - White Knights
    - Black Knights
    - Red Knights

    Everyone was given a special Robe labeled with their team.

    Well my team and guild were on the Red Knights... We lost the first event, it was an archery one.. So we decided to murder the white/black knights. We took most people's robes. Then we sold for lots of gold to the people who lost them.

    See - Gold SINK!

    Never mind the part where we got the gold and not the game :)
     
  47. Rumpy

    Rumpy Slightly Crazed
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    So what your saying is..

    The people with 7+ characters on accounts and multiple accounts with billions of gold can just walk all of their characters in and buy these items then hoarde them or flood the market with them and still get rich. Gotcha.

    Didn't people do this with the +5 stat scroll? They logged in on all the shards they had characters on to get one and sell for 60+ million gold? I know I did :)
     
  48. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    In theory, my thought was that it could be limited based on the account (i.e - only one reward per account), and the fact is, anyone attending the event has the opportunity to purchase the item, so wouldn't that limit the demand, since people would be able to purchase them with this method? Usually, the high price tags are due to the limit availability....take that out of the equation....and you level the playing field, provide a gold sink, and stop making the events about dollar signs. If people want the nostalagia, they can either earn if from the event, or pay gold through the mechanics, not through another player.
     
  49. Rumpy

    Rumpy Slightly Crazed
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    Even so, not all people can attend events and those who want it bad enough will pay. Those who are probably going to buy or receive, will keep so the limited availability is still there.
     
  50. The Predator

    The Predator Journeyman

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    I think that goes without saying for anything. At least more of an opportunity will be there.

    Off topic: I'm assuming that robe is from Siege.....and I want it. :D
     
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