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Proposed changes to Fel; Feel free to add your thoughts

Discussion in 'UHall' started by o2bavr6, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Here are a few thoughts I had on some ways to change Fel.

    No character can come to fel unless they have at least GM or higher in all skills.

    Increase the resources that are gathered 5 times compared to Tram. (risk versus reward)

    When a player comes to Fel either via a recall, gate or moongate they change to red or grey in color. This means no blues in Fel at all, like there are no reds in Tram.

    No guard zone at moongates.

    Dueling with guildmates would not give a person the "Flee from battle" Timer.

    All wandering healers will be red.

    Once you are dead there is no more "flee from battle"

    anything smaller than a gravestone, such as birds or rabbits will not stop a character to force them around it, they would just step over it like in real life.

    Energy Vortexes would be controlable like Demons and Elementals.

    If the caster of an EV has poisoning then the EV should have the ability to damage with deadly poison, sort of like in the old days.

    All dungeons high end monsters would have abiltiy to drop rarity 11 or 12 artifacts. Example being, Blood Eles, Poison Eles, Demons, Balrons, Ancient Wyrms, etc.

    I've intentionaly tried to leave skill changes out at this time, other than the propsoed EV changes.

    So lets hear your reasons as to why you like or dislike my thoughts.
     
  2. WildStar

    WildStar UO Baja News Reporter
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    Your one idea would make it very difficult to do cross-shard tours of the historic places in UO which are often located in Felucca such as player-run towns and Seer blessed buildings.

    WildStar
     
  3. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    Obviously your not a PvPr, or a good one anyways, because not everyone has GM skills. Some only have 60 in this skill and 80 in that. And besides why would you even consider that? Its silly to limit someone from going into Fel because they dont have GM skills.

    There is already double resources, that seems to be working fine. Besides unless you had a 7x gm mule, your char wouldnt be allowed in fel with your changes, and in order to get to 7xgm mule, your going to need those extra resources youd get from fel wouldnt you?

    Umm, why? I mean seriously are you drunk when you were thinking this crap up? If you did this, fel would seriously die. Reds are reds because they took murder counts from blues. Grey flags you as a criminal. Why would you want to be flagged as a criminal when you recalled into Fel? Seems silly to me.

    Heres an idea, DONT PVP AT YEW GATE NEWBIE.

    Agreed.

    Ehh, at least more red healers would be nice. Now it seems to be 5blues to one 1 red healer.

    At least reduce the timer a tad bit.

    I agree with this one as well.

    No and No. I dont feel I need a reason why, a good strong NO on both feels adequite enough.

    Dont they all have that ability as long as they are in a Legacy dungeon? I dont know, I get that crap, and crap is what it is, on barracoon spawns.
     
  4. Anne

    Anne Journeyman
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    I don't think this is necessary. I've always felt if you come to Fel you should accept the risk. If you want to bring an undeveloped char to Fel that's your choice/

    Double resources are sufficient ... 5 times would be overkill

    I'll have to think on this a bit more but I sort of like it. Too many people hide behind being a blue.

    Imho guard zones around moongates are necessary. Otherwise the gate would be camped and when you come in, before you have time to assess the situation you'll be dead. I think abusing the guard zone around gate in pvp situations is lame though. (Or any guard zone.)

    Completely agree

    I've never understood blue healers in Fel and red healers in Tram (except there's a quest that requires them). It would make sense for all healers in Fel to be red, However there would have to be a sensible number of them, not too many and not too few.

    Completely agree with this one too

    This makes sense

    My first thought is this isn't necessary, but I'll think on it a little

    I think I like this one

    I'd agree with this, except they shouldn't drop Doom arties, which belong to Doom only. Some sort of "good" drop would be nice though.
     
  5. WildStar

    WildStar UO Baja News Reporter
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    I would just like to point out that not every how goes to Felucca or lives there is a PK or does Champ Spawns.
     
  6. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    I don't like to be mean, but most of these changes are terrible. This might as well be a "remove Felucca post."

    I have played for 10 years, and most of my characters aren't 7x GM for a variety of reasons (haven't finished some of them, some have templates that require some skills that are less than 100 and some more than 100). I also have a few homes in Fel, and the idea that some of my characters couldn't go home is foolish.

    Making the resources in Fel higher won't make more people come if they won't want to. I tend to mine in Felucca, and there certainly isn't 5x more risk. I also don't like the idea of trying to bribe people into being easy kill targets.

    Why should my character be red or grey when they have done nothing wrong besides come to my house in Felucca? This is a stupid change. They have reduced the penalties for being red, and that didn't really inspire more people to try out the lifestyle. Making Felucca open hunting season wouldn't help.

    There should be a guard zone at gates because they are central transportation hubs and coming through a gate often lags or sometimes crashes you. I'm sure there are people who like the challenge of killing the lagged and the logged, but I'm not one of them.

    The guildmate "flee from battle" timer is sometimes frustrating, but it isn't a big deal for me. I also think it prevents some grief tactics in Trammel (join a guild, kill members, when things get tough you flee).

    Do reds really mind the fact that they can only use a half of the total healers in the game? I think it is a good bit better than the old system where they had a choice of the chaos shrine or another player.

    If energy vortex is another controllable, they would have to tweak it in other ways. I like things as they are now. Same opinion on the poison change.

    You shouldn't get artifacts from anything less than a boss. I can see adding artifacts to champ spawn bosses or new big bosses, but anything that I, in my infinite mediocrity, can solo should not give artifacts.

    My list:

    1. Fix factions and add to factions. I'm not sure exactly what, but I haven't been in a faction for as long as some others who I'm sure could give their opinion. I do know there are bugs with the current system that tends to break it.

    2. Events around Felucca. What if the current plot with Shadowlords actually managed to include Felucca?

    3. New champ spawns to fight over with scrolls for the rest of the skills. Who hasn't dreamed of being legendary Forensic evaluation?
     
  7. if fel is basically for reds/pvpers why not make all healers red? there is far more blue healers than red and we gotta run all over looking.It makes no sense.That wowuld be one of my changes.
     
  8. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I understand your logic here, and my change would also affect human characters who get the natural 20 skill points in all skills. I was just trying to figure out a way to get rid of the templates that dont have a full gm or 120 such as Chiv. You only need like 80 CHiv to use most of the spells effectivly, yet Chiv makes most templates very unbalanced. People get away with these temlates by not having resist and using pots and a trapped box.



    Double resources does't bring anyone to Fel. It would be a nice bonus to those who worked their mules to 5X or 7X to be able to go to a place that provides serious risk versus rewrd. Double resources isn't enough of a carrot.



    Well, i figure if Tram has a place that no reds are allowed why shold Fell alow blues? After all if they made it to where Reds could go to tram, but just have to follow the same ruleset, meaning no pking possible, then i would agree with you.

    And Fel is pretty much already a dead zone, except for Yew gate and a few champ spawns.

    Basicaly Fel should be for advanced characters only. If you don't have the skill you shouldn't be able to participate.

    This was my favorite of your responses :lol: I would be more than happy to not pvp at Yew gate. Just let me know where in Fel on can find PvP other than at the gate?
    Oh, and our guild already controls the champ spawns most of the day and all evening (During that time we rarely get raided or bothered.), until like 3AM when no one in our guild is on.
     
  9. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    S E I G E

    go there quit whinning
     
  10. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    Your shard must be lame sauce.
     
  11. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    I think it is funny that you want Felucca to be "for advanced characters only" and yet you want to ban certain templates that make the most of game mechanics. I may not like certain templates, but I don't go around trying to ban from from pvp or pvm or anything else. Don't force your templates on the rest of us. Freedom is UO's biggest selling point.

    Again, the only idea that people seemed to no hate in this post was more red healers in Fel. Heck, I'm suprised the Bucs Den healers doesn't have a permanent Priest of Mondain.
     
  12. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    The problem is that people have ways around the Risk portion, by gate hugging and then ganking. At least if the people who ganked you would stay flagged to you then you could get revenge. But the moment the red dies to 6 aggressor blues, the blues stay blue to the red instead of being flagged grey for 2 minutes.


    I would agree if there were actualy people taking advantage of the double resources, but there aren't. So how are you coming up with the conclusion that double is fine? What are you basing this on? I am basing my comments on the fact that you rarely ever find people in Fel hunting for resources.


    The way I see it, if you dont have a rune to a fel city then you deserve to get pked at a moongate.

    Also I am not saying to remove guard zone in cities. What would happen is that people would jsut guard zone hug outside of cities instead.


    It's just frustrating when the main place that red went to res, Magincia, was destroyed so now we have to go to Trinny or Moonglow. I can't tell you how many times I've run around for 20 minutes looking for a red healer. During that time i run across 20 blue healers.

    All blues have to do is go to an Ilshenar moongate. How unblanced is that?
     
  13. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I understand, but then it's not like you cant do the exact same thing in Tram.

    Why even go to Fel then?
     
  14. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    You're probably right here, but as it is, Fel is a wasteland, so if playing in an empty Fel or not playing UO at all is pretty much the same thing.

    Well you also have homes in Tram, so why couldnt you just use the Fel homes for your completed characters?

    The main idea is to stop PvP with templates that are unfinished, or ones that use a skill like Chiv to forgo magic resist making those templates unbalanced.

    But I do agree that my idea is a bit drastic.

    I have to disagree with you on this, I think it would bring more people to Fel. And you may mine if Fel, but you are in the .00125% of the population that does.

    If they had to have all GM or higher in skills they wouldn't nesasarily be an easy kill target, depending on the skills they have.

    Isn't doom and their artifacts just a bribe for people to come play?
    Fel doesn't get Major Artie drops on spawn, only Doom. Fel does get power scrolls that Tram doesn't but... Items can make a player more powerful than a skill scroll will. Meanig that a person with 100 archery can beat someone with 120 archery if the lower skilled person has a better bow and armor.



    Well if your character only goes to Fel to get into his house, you have nothing to worry about. after all youll recall to your house and enter it safely. So being red or grey or blue don't matter.

    There should be no penalty for playing a red just like there is no penalty to playing a blue. Having a penalty for reds only is discrimination.


    As I mentioned in the other reply, if you don't have a rune to a town in Fel you deserve to get Pked at a moongate. Fel is about PvP nothing more.

    I have two answers for you. First get on a red ghost and go look for a red healer, then ask me your question again. Second, I don't think the number of red to blue healers is half, it seems to be that red healers are about 15% of the wandering healer population, but I have no proof of this other than the countless times I've run around looking for a red healer.
     
  15. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    This wasn't a whine, it was about proposing changes to Fel.

    So what you are saying is that all I have proposed is already part of Siege? We both know that Siege is not the answer to my proposed changes.
     
  16. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    PvP = Player(s) vs Player(s)

    When the Player is not in control of the Character, were is the Player(s) vs Player(s).

    It would seem, the Fel you want, is a Risk Free Gank/PK world for you to play in. It certainly does not seem that you want anything to do with Playver(s) vs Player(s).
     
  17. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    It truly is.

    We decided to do factions for a fight, and what ended up happening was all the opposing factions wouldnt fight. all they did was send in their stealthers at 4 AM to steal the sigals.

    Very few guild will come raid us at spawns, even though we mainly do them for the fight and not the scrolls.

    This leaves us Yew gate. YAY!!!!! Nothing is more fun than fighting a bunch of gate trash DPers, Tamers or Archers. They all sit there and do nothing until someone attacks a red, then they all jump in. 2 Stealth dismount archers, 2 DP dexers, some other newb with a greater dragon, and about 2 or 3 other mages. Then they say "owned" like they actualy knew how to PvP.

    I just want to figure out a way to make the game interesting and exciting all while not having to deal with 10 year old or completely skillless pk wannabe's.

    It seems that the Vet player has to deal with this stupidity in the name of money and keeping the new player happy. Isn't Tram enough to keep them happy?
     
  18. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    This can't work because Fel acts as a home to people and all of their chars. Regardless of those chars' skill levels, they all need to be able to go home at the end of the day.

    Resources would be so much faster to get in the door that it would change a whole lot. Knee jerk reaction is that it's too much but I haven't thought it through, really.

    What you're trying to touch on here is, indeed, an actual, nasty, unfair thing about Fel right now. We have packs of blues who hang out at guard zone boundries trying to trick reds into getting guard killed, and even exploiting in this effort.

    In modern UO, Blues and Reds no longer represent evil or good-intentioned players. Whether or not you bring your red or your blue is often a tactical decision. In some cases, people who only play blues are doing so because they feel that they need the extra protection that being Blue affords .

    Blues should not be able to play games around the guardzone to effect kills on reds. I would hope that this was not what Guard zone was intended to be used for.

    Figuring out a fix for this is hard!

    Check this out, but pay attention to the details: IMO it is a good idea to remove the guard zone from the FELUCCA SIDE of the T2a entrances, make the T2a transit passageways be the guard zones and be recall/mark zones, and leave the guard zone as it is on the T2a sides of the passageways. I've seen the Felucca side of the T2a entrances be used by some of the most gutless Blues to torment other players (red and blue both) around their homes, and this would help that to a great extent. Moving the T2a-related guard zone out of the immediete area of the habitable areas of Fel should go a long way toward reducing the abuse there.

    But the moongates problem is much more complicated. There are so many bugs right now with flagging, and there's situational SNAFUs, not to mention the exploits (shoot someone who is using an exploit to make himself appear to be criminal-flagged, get guardwhacked!). Reds get killed over and over again due to bugs and problems and its absolutely stupid. It frustrates them and makes them angry at the game.

    Making Fel Moongate guard zones really work properly within the existing design parameters would require fixing every single bug and flagging screwup and it's one heck of a job. So of course there's the temptation to re-evaluate the parameters (moongates as a guard zone in the first place) as a means to take the bull by the horns.

    Perhaps being guardwhacked at a moongate (specifically MOONGATE) should cause you to lose no insurance and drop no items, and all of your items would be in your pack when you ressurected. Think it through and you may see how that would accomodate the original design goals of the Fel moongate having a guard zone, yet also take most of the bite out of these abusive blues who frequent the Moongate guard zone border.

    Players who are doing the abuse on their Blues will probably say that it's unfair to give the reds decreased losses in that situation, but realize that such a complaint would only really apply to a Blue who was choosing to STAND AROUND. That person is attempting to PVP at the border of an unherantly-unfair guard zone and is in many cases expecting something (a guard kill and loot abilities) for NOTHING. Someone who was just passing through would still be alive, and be happy to be alive, and would move on - - unlike someone who is lingering, hoping to capitalize on what was supposed to be simply a safe zone after an initial gate into Fel.

    I like most of this. The flee-from-battle thing on guildmates could become a problem if it were removed because you do occasionally get malicious new members in your guild who are actually there to kill and loot the existing members.

    The flee-from-battle situation should be reviewed. I have killed reds on my blue before not been able to leave an area because of it. I don't know if it's supposed to be like that or if it's a bug.

    When someone dies (either me or my quarry), I feel like all crim and aggro flags should be cleared. I could be overlooking something when I say that but that's my sense right now.

    I don't know, on those.

    Hm I don't know on that one either. Thing is, there's groups of people who really, honestly are unprepared to touch Fel. They do not PVP out in the wild and their reactions and nerves are not tuned for it. A PK encounter is a day-ruining experience for those people, so they stay in Tram. Making that big a change in Fel dungeons alone would disgust them.

     
  19. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Am I not in control of my character? is not the other character being controlled by someone?

    I am not sure I understand what you are saying here, can you please enlighten me?

    Well any player would be safe in a town, so other than removing guards from gates, how is this different from how it is now?

    Also if you don't want to PvP you can just as easily go to Tram cant you?

    Is it so terrible that some of us enjoy PvP as much as you may enjoy PvM?

    You have more worlds to go to, to PvM than we have to PvP. Is that not enough for you?

    Why is it ok for no reds to go to tram, yet its ok for blues to come to fel?
    I would like to hear your reasoning on this.
     
  20. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    "No character can come Fel unless they have at least GM or higher in all skills."

    What about people keeping their skill low on purpose? This would require some template-defining boundaries on skills.

    "Increase the resources that are gathered 5 times compared to Tram."

    Screeeeeeeeept.

    "When a player comes to Fel either via a recall, gate or moongate they change to red or grey in color."

    Agree.

    "No guard zone at moongates."

    Agree.

    "Dueling with guildmates would not give a person the "Flee from battle" Timer."

    Agree.

    "All wandering healers will be red."

    Agree.

    "Once you are dead there is no more "flee from battle"."

    No. While most of the times it is annoying, it stops people in certain scenarios from coming back way soon.

    "Anything smaller than a gravestone, such as birds or rabbits will not stop a character to force them around it, they would just step over it like in real life."

    Balance > Real Life in games.. That's why they are games. Other than that this is so small a change it's unimportant.

    "Energy Vortexes would be controlable like Demons and Elementals."

    No, they are too powerfull that way. Mages have enough power.

    "If the caster of an EV has Poisoning then the EV should have the ability to damage with deadly poison, sort of like in the old days."

    It was changed for a reason. Skill requirement shouldn't bring this back.

    "All dungeons high end monsters would have abiltiy to drop rarity 11 or 12 artifacts. Example being, Blood Eles, Poison Eles, Demons, Balrons, Ancient Wyrms, etc."

    Okay with that. They're worthless junk now anyways. Most expensive of the usefull ones is a 10 million item.. Hardly too.

    "I've intentionaly tried to leave skill changes out at this time, other than the propsoed EV changes."

    Leave them alone or re-do them completely. Everything. From scratch.
     
  21. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Ok, trust me, I am to willing to Lecture you on what LAG is and how the Player is NOT in control of the character during a LAG event.

    Are you sure you want to posture yourself to be such a .... well ... hum ... novice to computer gaming that you don't know what lag is?

    If so, then trust me, I will be all to happy to enlighten you as to what Lag is and how the Player is NOT in control of the character.

    Let me tell you how it will end though.

    I will lecture you on Lag and how the PLAYER is not in control of the character and you will pull some esoteric rhetoric out of one of your lower orifices that not a single reader will accept. In that final act of desperation, YOU will have painted who you are and what your intentions are. YOU will also blame me and any other handy person on YOUR choices for posturing in this thread. And not a single reader will accept your finger pointing.
     
  22. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    WOW, I almost fell out of my chair at this well thought out and lucid response. I have to say that this is one of the best written responses to a post I have seen to date.

    You interjected actual thought in your answer as opposed to just emotion.
    I would like to buy you a dozen beers.
     
  23. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    I do have multiple accounts, so I do have Trammel homes. However, why should my Felucca homes be off limits to characters that you don't consider finished templates? My miner has like 60 magery because I have a ton of GM and Legendary craft skills that don't fit well. Under your system, I couldn't even bring her to Fel to mine. Under your system, my treasure hunter with remove trap and detect hidden (~80 each) couldn't go to Felucca to dig up maps. Under your system, my warrior with 110+ in 5 skills, 100 in one, and 80 in another couldn't go to Felucca to hunt or visit the places I enjoyed for years. Under your system, my faction mage with a currently unfinished template but which will end with like 80 anatomy and healing, but 110+ in other mage skills wouldn't be able to go. You are basically saying that a "finished" character only fits your definition of finished which is incredibly limited. If you are losing to paladins, either play a paladin or figure out how to fight them, but an idea like this is foolish.

    Reasons I got to Felucca:
    1. Factions
    2. RP Combat
    3. Mining
    4. My various houses
    5. History history history

    Having a penatly for reds isn't discrimination. They got to kill other players of their choice while blues didn't. It is a tradeoff, not a penalty.

    As for the red/blue healer question, around my house it seems around 50/50, but again, that's anecdotal evidence. It may be skewed differently. Again though, it used to be a lot worst with only the Chaos shrine.
     
  24. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Actualy NO!! I agree with you on this, Lag is not a fun way to play in let alone pvp in.

    I just didn't know you were talking about Lag when you said..."PvP = Player(s) vs Player(s)

    When the Player is not in control of the Character, were is the Player(s) vs Player(s).?"


    I guess I am spoiled too, because I have had a cable modem since 1997. I was beta for Comcast.
     
  25. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Both Recall and Gate produce the condition of Lag.

    Recall/Player Cast Gate, is ... well should be ... an Unknown place, making it ... more difficult to camp that spot.

    MoonGates are fixed locations. There is NO guess work here.

    To allow a Poison Field, Greater Poison, Greater Dragons, Archers etc to be able to attack any character materializing from a Moongate, when they have no control of the character, let alone any perception of their environment, is hardly PvP. It is nothing but a 100% risk free PK/Gank. Hence, in my opinion, there is no good reason, in the context of PvP, for the Moongates to NOT be Guarded zones.
     
  26. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I'm open to suggestions, after all i said they were just ideas.

    I do see that my idea involving skill and being able to come to Fel having issues, so maybe the character would have to at least have all 700/720 skill points full. So if you have 14 skills at only 50 skill points that would be fine...who knows?

    Also if they removed trapped boxes form the game to bypass the resist skill then Paladins wouldnt be as over powered as they are.

    Not much happens on Chessy for factions, also read other post i made here regarding factions on Chessy.

    In Fel? I guess a red could be considered an RP combatant.

    In Fel? Not on Chessy.


    If it was your only house, I would agree with you more on this, but if you have multiple houses, it kind of makes it seem trivial on your part...but I can say the same for me and my opinion.


    hmm History huh.. can you tell me when the last time you went to Fel for the history of it? Should some changes not be made just so that someone can go see a player run town once every 5 years?

    Not alowing reds in Tram is Discrimination. It's not like we would be any different than a blue in Tram other than our color.

    I would agree with you on the trade off part if we were only talking about Fel and there was no such thing as Tram.
     
  27. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    All reds in Felucca should have fluffy, pink bunnies following them around, decrying their evil evil status and taunting people and creatures around them.

    "Mwister DaRkGnOsT is a baaad baaad man"

    "Hey mwister Ancient Lich, mwister DaRkGnOsT thinks you are a chump"

    "Oooooo Mwister DaRkGnOsT thinks Mwissus Vilelady is a tart and that she couldn't possibwy hurt him"

    "Mwissus Vilelady wasn't vewwy nice to you"
     
  28. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    As I said before, you can easily resolve being ganked at a moongate by just no using it and using your own runes safe locations. Honestly if you don't have a rune to somewhere in Fel, should you even be going there? ANd dont forget there are tons of fixed moongates in Fel that would require entirley too many people to camp them all.

    I'm ok with the opening moongate in Fel being invisible to anyone except guildmemebers or party members. but again if your gate is to somewhere off the neaten path, you are fine.
     
  29. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    We already do.. they are called Trammies :lol:
     
  30. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    So your problem is with trapped boxes, not with skills below 100. That is certainly something to talk about since trapped boxes don't do near the amount of damage that trapped pouches do. However, you instead picked a huge complicated change that would limit the appeal of Felucca more instead of talking about an actual balance issue.

    Factions have potential. A friend who is in True Brits and I (in Minax) have been trying to restart those two less active Factions on our shard and use them for roleplay purposes. Roleplaying in Felucca is hard, but it is where it all began. Heck, some of the most famous RP on my shard were the Divided Lands which was very PvP focused.

    It isn't my only house, but I know there are some players with one account who live in Fel. The idea that they couldn't start a new character and go to their house is blasphemy as far as I'm concerned. If Felucca is supposed to be relatively lawless, wouldn't having laws against travel there be sort of opposite that philosophy? Wouldn't having such restrictions also decrease the number of people who could go there? A Felucca with even less people doesn't help UO.

    History matters. I lost my library of Felucca dungeon runes years back because of Champ Spawns. I'm still bitter about that. I understand the reasoning, but I had some really neat spots where I had hunted, held events, etc. I have held many christmas parties at my house in Felucca. My guild has used it as a place to meet for treasure maps and nets over the years. If history doesn't matter, why am I playing a 10 year old game which everyone says has dated graphics and all sorts of problems? My predictions on Champ Spawns about them being whack-a-mole game that wouldn't bring anyone new to Felucca turned out to be true, but grudgingly, I will admit I'm glad they are there.

    Discrimination? That's foolish. I joined factions despite the fact that more people could kill me freely, and I couldn't be healed by blues or alliance greens in Felucca or TRAMMEL. I chose to take on that restriction. Every red makes a similar tradeoff: he can kill freely, but he can't leave the facet where people can take revenge on him. He is a marked man by choice of his actions. Just like someone choosing to join a faction, enter into a guild war, or be a thief. Also, like those other things, the red has the means to return to blue status, if he has the patience and desire.

    We can discuss whether the murder count timer is too long or short, but I do think if someone has taken the steps to go red, they don't get to hideout in Trammel between kills.
     
  31. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    And what about my red who has only 80 poisoning? A skill based entry restriction would never be viable because your skills can be less then GM in templates that are designed for PvP.

    5x resources? I thought the idea was to restrict the amount of objects resources and gold going into the economy not increase them. Double is more than fair.

    I like the idea of not allowing blues in fel to a degree but it makes no sense because as a grey (criminal) you cannot access anything as far as I remember and it is bad enough being red.

    I just don't think these ideas were thought through entirely.

    But don't get me wrong I would love to see more people in fel and we really do need a good reason for them to be there.

    The only good reason I can come up with is more fel only activities not like champ spawns though. Good activities outside of guarded areas that people are willing to risk going to for the rewards.

    What we need is a fel activities focus group! Would it not make complete sense to create a shard and have players test new activities first hand to give feedback from both reds and blues about the balance between risk vs reward?
     
  32. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Nothing should release any kind of paralysis other than the magic resist skill or an offensive spell from another character. Trapped boxes and pouches should be removed fromt he game.

    But you are correct, it is complicated or more acurately doesnt take into account characters with less than GM skills, who should be ablet o come to Fel. My idea may not be the right idea, but discussion is good :thumbup1:

    They really do, but they need some kind of revamp. Guarding Sigils is like watching and IDOC. You have 23 hours of waiting and one hour of fun, at least on my shard.
    Also my shard has its own issues with factions which i talked about a few posts ago.


    It kind of is though. There is no good reason why a red cant go to Tram if he has to follow the same ruleset that everyoen else in tram does. He is no threat.

    Thats sort of part of the crux of this post; reds cant go to tram but blues can come to fel. Now i know fel isnt entirely about being red, but just because we choose to play one way on one facet, doesnt mean we should be restricted to another.

    The fact is, being red today is not the same as being red before Tram. Before Tram there needed to be checks and balances, but today being red is almost just a fashion statement.
     
  33. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    As posted above my gm+ skills plan would need tweaking or rethought.

    On my shard you don't see people working for resources in Fel, anywhere.

    I figure that if they make the reward worth the risk it would inject some life into Fel. Don't forget there are places in Fel that are in guard zone that you could farm to your hearts content, safely.

    I'm not sure how to quantify fair? Currently at Double, no one takes advantage of it, so it's almost no different than people jsut farming in Tram.

    I was looking at it like this: if your in Tram, you are blue so if you recall to Fell you cant be grey at the time or flagged. All that would happen is your character would appear red like normal reds today.

    You could walk safely in town guard zones wihtout blues being able to attack you. This is sort of very old school; In the realy old days you couldn't attack a red in town, if you tried you would get guard killed, just like if y ou attacked a blue. Now Dread Lords were not alowed in towns and were killed onsite by the guards.

    You are correct, but with the countless possibilities this game provides, it's not hard to miss things.

    .

    I think there actualy is one out there. Not sure where they are at or if they have even started, but i heard there was one.
     
  34. That's a really kewl idea. Seriously. Perhaps make it token based. And the fluffy pink bunnies must be made invulnerable of course. Perhaps a maximum of 3 bunnies or so per person (to prevent excessive lag).

    Great idea Jhym! [​IMG]

     
  35. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    No. I don't think you realise how many people this would knock out. This would knock out any paladin template (because no one ever takes Chivalry to gm). It would also knock out a great deal of other templates. Actually, the majority of pvp templates have at least one skill that is under gm (even if its med).

    I like the idea of doubling ore in Trammel and then doubling what is in Trammel. Wood is easy to get once you find the tree. You can get over 10k boards in about 30 minutes.

    No. There is a reason why not everyone is FFA attack. The better solution (if you assume there is an issue) is to just remove the color system altogether in certain areas. If you insist on having spawns be only in Felucca then make them true FFA pvp zones where you can't get counts.

    Felucca traffic moved from Bucc's Den to Yew for a reason. Don't take that reason away. All it will do is keep most blues fighting in towns. You plan on removing all guard zones from towns too?

    The flee from battle timer could be removed completely.

    No. This is one of the few things that stops uber ganks from occuring over and over. If they went red by killing blues who didn't attack them then make them look for a healer. If anything, remove all red healers and make them res at Chaos Shrine again if they can't get someone to res them.

    I totally agree with this change.

    Is it really that hard to run through the lands. I never have had a problem, and normally I can lose anyone, and I don't speed hack.

    This would be a nice change period, but I'm not sure it should happen. If it did happen it shouldn't be a Felucca only change.

    When did EVs deadly poison? Must have been pre-Trammel. This would be a horrible change.

    They already do. They just so happen to be Virtue Artifacts. No, they shouldn't drop guantlet artifacts. Not to mention, its totally bogus to say there is more risk in Felucca. Most of the time guilds won't mess with you just for hunting in Felucca unless they have a reason to mess with you.

    I don't like the idea of seperate skill effects for Felucca and Trammel.


    Some good, some bad. I think what most people want is an actual reason to PvP that doesn't resolve around PvM. It would be nice if spawns were taken out of Felucca and replaced with a function faction system with pvp only rewards. Items with good resists and PvP related mods would be nice.
     
  36. Mankind

    Mankind Guest

    The people whos opinions are actually "valued" regarding topics like this, are missing because they're laughing so hard they can't type. Sorry to be blunt, but were you actually serious when you created this thread?
     
  37. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    This is part of a bigger issue. Since they changed the resources, people have avoided gathering resources at all. They changed them to hinder scripters and the result was the price of resources sky rocketed, many shards end up without resources, and scripters make even more money.

    I don't feel sympathy. You knew what would happen when you went red. Make a friend or two that is willing to res you even though you are red.

    Not at all. Blues had to manage their kill counts to remain blue. There is absolutely no skill or effort required to become red. You knew what would happen if you became red. Sure, I'd love to kill every blue that annoys me, but I'd also like to recall home at the end of the night. I compromise and only kill 4 blues that annoy me every week or so.
     
  38. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    Step 1) Separate fel and trammel into two different types of shards. Together is not good.


    We'll do that first and then we'll worry about what comes next...
     
  39. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    With the system I am proposing there would be no such thing as murder counts anymore. Everyone in Fel would be red.



    Nope, and if you tried to attack a red in town you would get guard whacked, just like if he was blue.



    Why should a person be penalized for they type of character he wants to play? In Tram everyone can heal from red or blue healers. There is also all the Ilshenar gate shrines to go res at.
    So i say again why should we be penalized? if you dont want to participate in pvp you can play in tram, nothing is stopping you. There would be no need or reason for you to even go to Fel, except to maybe enter your house, if all you want to do is pvm.


    heh, ya. way way way before UO was ruined with Trammel. In the old days EV's owned, they could 3 hit kill anyone anytime. they were nasty to say the least, and the nerf to them was saddening. We also used to be able to cast as many as mana would allow. I could cast eleven.



    Virtue Arties are garbage, i throw them away every time. and no i dont turn them in for points, there is no item i am interested in.

    I can tell you for sure that there are no guilds who go hunting in Fell on Chessy, and yes most red guilds would mess with you, and i can say for 100% certainty that my guild would be the first to "mess" with you :p
     
  40. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    Aww, thanks!! :)

    ..... the rest of the posters seem to have ignored what I'd written, tho! And its quite a variety of posters, some of whom don't appear to be in Fel enough to even recognize what goes on day-to-day.
     
  41. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Thank god your not one of them with the "valued" opinions, since you took the time to reply to the post :thumbup1:
     
  42. gunneroforgin

    gunneroforgin Slightly Crazed
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    HERE, HERE!
    be careful of what you wish for you might end up the only player left as I turn out the lights.
     
  43. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    It reminds me of the snow birds here in Flroida. they live here 4 months of the year, yet they want to dictate what happens in their communities.

    They complained about our hot dog stand girls wearing T-Back's, so now they arent allowed anymore.

    They complained about the music in the downtown areas, so now no more outdoor live bands after 10pm.

    At least if they lived here year round I could undersdtand, but they dont!

    I just want to find a way to inject excitment into the game again, liek in the old days when you palms would sweat. My ideas may be off the wall, but at least im trying.
     
  44. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    That would be horrible, the shard would drop from 200 people to 1.

    it may also bring back some of the old players who left after the introduction of Tram.
     
  45. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Just play Siege or hush.
     
  46. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Funny how just about every post had intelligent responses, even if they disagreed.

    Yet the most childish post come fro a UO Moderator :thumbup1:
     
  47. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest


    What would rock is if we woke up one day and found that, lo and behold, the latest patch had indeed made it so that Yew and other moongate guard whacking baloney no longer caused people to lose their insurance money or items in their pack, and the Fel T2a entrances were re-done as described. I'd hear much less screaming and raging around me in Vent; that alone would be worth it! (side note: a guy in my guild appears to be quitting because the lameness of this situation has finally driven him up the wall to where he can't fall back down!)

    And there's no reason not to have all wandering healers in Fel be willing to res both reds and blues... every single time I and the people around me can't find a res on our reds, we all come out and say how lame it is. We all have blues, we all have reds, and the blues are generally no less "PKs" in this day and age when you get down to it. If in doubt, flag crim in front of one and see for yourself!

    Seeing something that would work out great can sometimes end up being a disappointment because it doesn't actually happen, and the days continue to go by like that. It's also possible to really want to see something but there's a catch that would have ruined it that we don't realize, but then the UO people make no comment at all, so you think that what you'd thought of has been ignored. And sometimes the people who are trying to fix this thing and make it better are literally too busy to take it all on at once, or, they have another, more in-depth fix in mind that they are halfway through but nobody except them knows about it... mmmph.
     
  48. WildStar

    WildStar UO Baja News Reporter
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    Because I live there and that is where the historic but still active player-run city I am a part of is located.

    WildStar
     
  49. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    I don't think your real life example is applicable. There are people who do more pvp in Felucca than I do who live in Trammel, but if I told them they didn't have a right to discuss Trammel, they would be right to tell me to shut up. I have lived in Felucca since before it was Felucca. I have had various neighbors try to kill me for years. One of my houses was by the crossroads back when that was a big pvp area, and another of my houses is near Yew. I find it amusing that everytime there is a post that will affect my property or my actions in Felucca, I'm told to basically shut up because I don't have enough pvp cred.

    There have always been people who abuse the guard zones and there have always been blue players who deserved to die. I know this because under the old noto system it was a lot easier to be red (accidentally hitting someone with a purple potion), and noto killers were very common. The problem is with removing guard zones around gates is the problem when I step into the gate in Bucs Den. If there is someone on the other side ready, they can pretty much get the jump on you before you get unstuck. I understand the argument that if you have to use a public gate, you deserve what happens to you, but that is a terrible way of uncouraging more people to come to Fel. PvPers always talk about wanting more people to fight, but I am coming to believe they aren't truthful about that.

    I discussed adding permanent red healers to a place like Bucs Den. Which is very close to the Bucs Den moongate which can be accessed as a ghost from any other moongate which would save Yew gate reds a great amount of time, except sadly there would be idiot res-killers guarding it from time to time.

    Discrimination is such a stupid way to describe player choices having consequences. If I make a character with 100 Forensic evaluation, 100 Taste ID, and 100 Remove Trap, I don't get to complain that it will take me hours to be a great pvp mage as I rebuild my template. If I choose to kill blue players who may or may not deserve it, I go red. Heck there isn't even stat loss anymore. There are a lot of things I'd fix first about pvp and the murder system over simply allowing reds to come to Trammel.
     
  50. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    QFT!!!

    Alot of balance would be achieved if trapped boxes were removed from this game.