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[Feedback] Pub 69 EC Patches

Discussion in 'UO Enhanced Client Discussion' started by Merion, Dec 6, 2010.

  1. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    What can I say... I'm rather disappointed :(
     
  2. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Well based on the live stream, I'd say that isn't a full list of the bug fixes. I'm sure there were a lot more small fixes.
     
  3. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Well that's... underwhelming.
     
  4. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    hmmm thats not much for sure
     
  5. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    And honestly, I'm not sure I've seen ANY of the items in the list as being "hot button" issues, at least on this forum anyway... am I wrong?
     
  6. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    the server lines is the one i run into a lot but thats just because I have been fishing a lot
     
  7. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    No, you aren't.

    Underwhelming indeed. :wall:
     
  8. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Doesn't fix many of the problems we've been having.

    And have any of you checked out your fire beetle... I'll say this is sure looks better than it was... but OMG bright still... but getting much better... I kinda like how it glows.
     
  9. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    While some of those things are nice, I was hoping for so much more when they said "too many bugfixes to mention!". At least I can play chess again in game with people though I suppose... =P
     
  10. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    the memory problem is reduced, I still on 440Mb after crossing a champion spawn and new haven on the TC!
    in window mode the problem still the same :(
     
  11. IanJames

    IanJames Certifiable
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    Less lag this morning in special effects of primeval lich
     
  12. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    mm they seemed to done more then they listed. My gargoyles footwear no longer below them when they flying and here is a picture of the new look of my fire beetle



    [​IMG]


    And i think the fairy dragons in the Abyss looked different colored too. ​
     
  13. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    The Fire Beetle I mentioned..... However haven't noticed the gargoyle footwear thing.... that would be a good improvement.
     
  14. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The glow on the fire beetle is nice, the internals peeking through is an interesting touch, the lack of details on the outer shell/body though still look like crap.

    Need to bring back the contrast and details. I miss the more yellow/gold look of the 3d bug myself and of course the details it had in KR. RIght now it's quite an eyesore with a few ineteresting concepts thrown in.

    But then I never liked the featureless blobs of "pure" colors. Color and surface has TEXTURE people!
     
  15. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    We need a better list with bugs here, with pictures and clear structured that the Devs can see what they need todo, i think most of them even dont know that 50% of the time the lightning effects or arrows are big over the screen, or that we have this and that problem.
     
  16. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
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    Do this and I will personally email this thread link with orange sticks waving *winks*

    I run both versions but still fall back on CC a lot but there are many things EC offers that cannot be ignored.
     
  17. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    We had a pretty well organized and updated bug thread, but it never got stickied... should be lurking somewhere in the board, but I'm not sure how up to date it is at the moment (though given the track record, shouldn;t be very out of date).
     
  18. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
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    It doesn't have to be about just bugs, if its kept on topic to this pub 69 and what you collectively feel is a good next step. Like if you had your top 5 wishes for the EC, be it a bug fix or wishful thinking, what would they be?
     
  19. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    From the post linked in my sig, the following are my top 5 issues that need to be fixed:

    Artwork Resolution: Leaving out any arguments over the artwork style of KR vs Legacy, one direction that was correct in that regard was making the new artwork in a higher resolution. Quite simply, outside of a 640x480 resolution (1:1), Legacy graphics simply do not hold up well. Furthermore, the EC’s default zoom setting is much closer than the 1:1 setting of Legacy to adjust for higher resolution displays to show a roughly equal play area under default settings as the Legacy client. Because of that, new users’ (or potential converts from 2d) first look at the game screen can be a distorted mess. Zoom out carefully enough and you might be able to find the magic 1:1 level that makes everything clear, but even this does not seem to be consistent across all pieces of artwork. Zoom in and the pixilation is almost embarrassing. In the KR client, you could zoom in and everything would remain reasonably smooth even showing facial features on your character ingame. In the current EC, a character’s face is a pixilated blob. Yes, there was the argument for client performance, but even then, simply downgrading everything was the quick and easy way that solved little.

    UI downgrades from KR: Crafting menus, the Atlas customization system, and the Animal Lore gump are all downgrades or outright removal of more popular and useful KR UI elements. The Crafting Menus in KR were larger than the Legacy versions, however, they also had the Make X and Make Max features on the main page rather than 2 or 3 sub-menus deep. The Atlas customization allowed players to define what the various map pins looked like, the color, and the size of those pins. It also allowed the players to define what the waypoints looked like in the game window giving different options players could set to define those waypoints differently as needed. This was ENTIRELY stripped out and I have yet to see any rhyme or reason as to why. The Animal Lore gump wasn’t big in itself, however in KR it was moddable and a VERY popular mod was developed that put all of the information from Animal Lore into a single gump. Attempts have been made to replicate this, but as with the crafting menu, it has been relegated to the internal gump system untouchable by modders.

    “You cannot pick that up”: This has to be my BIGGEST pet peeve bug. Drag and release something either too quickly or with just the right timing and you are stuck unable to move anything else or Recall until you log out and back in. This is but one of many nagging bugs that have been present since the client was released.

    Freeform backpack issues: I think everyone knows about these whether they are users or not. First of all, I am still very much of the opinion that the Legacy freeform container is simply abysmally small in size and area, but that is only the first of many problems. Items are not as sharp as they should be inside the legacy backpack (which I believe is a function of the resolution issue above), they change size depending on your UI scale when you move them which can be disconcerting, precise placement of items in freeform is difficult, and displays of items in freeform containers can differ between clients making running a vendor in the EC difficult.

    Random movement in combat Anyone who has at least played melee in PvM in the EC will make note of times when their character randomly "jumps" a tile (sometimes more than one in a short period) occasionally ending up out of range of a corpse they just killed.

    And I'll add in the Fire Beetle into the artwork issues list.
     
  20. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    You know what is most amusing is the freeform container problem actually means that the Game Board fix is only half useful. The gameboards are basically a "legacy container" anyway, are really small and because the way items drag and drop inaccurately, it's a real damn pain just setting up the chess board. (With backgammon it's even worse.)
     
  21. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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  22. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    Top 5 wishes?

    Here you go:
    • Atlas/Radar Map 1 - In KR we had the ability to set different categories of waypoints. This was fantastic! I added Champs spawn altars, player vendors, monster spawn points, friends houses, etc. Now all we have is one kind of waypoint, all looking the same. The KR way was better. Period. No one understands why this was taken out.
    • Atlas/Radar Map 2 - the ability to see where the people I'm hunting with are, is key to PvP and high level PvM. It's great that I can see my party members on the map. But 3 things with that:
      1. Change the symbol! Those small white crosses are pretty hard to see, especially with the white background now due to the snow (near impossible).
      2. Show the names. If you're in a party of 10 people, all you see is a bunch of white crosses weeving around the map. In a fight, I don't have the time to mouseover all the markers to see which is who. Just show the names or maybe just the first letter next to the marker. this would help a lot!
      3. Faster Update Rate. Right now it seems like 2 seconds, so when I reach the point where the map says my friend is, he might be already 2 screens away.
    • moddable Gumps - let the modders acces those gumps. I'm sure they will work wonders for usability.
    • High resolution character models - I'd say artwork in general, but lets start small here. When I zoom in, my char is just a blob. In KR I could see his face. I know this might be taxing on older computers, but take a look at Battleforge for example. They offer a high-res texture pack as an optional download through the patcher. You don't have to use it, but if you think you computer can handle it, then you can.
    • Target relative to location - one of the few things from UOA that I am seriously missing. i'd like to be able to fish with a single keystroke while cruising from one harbour to another.
     
  23. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    THIS!

    I'm also tired of the poorly rendered avatars. Since their resolution was dropped from that of KR, and since they were shrunk, some headwear is the wrong shape. Specifically mage hats.

    If the 'E' EC is to mean Enhanced then the client needs to be visually better then the CC, and 10+ yo PCs may not be able to run it. Boo hoo.
     
  24. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    This is the part that I get confused about the EC....I mean, why are we exactly trying to push something on people who will never want it? And in the process of doing that ripping off the people who do want it by not actually giving it to them? I am avid about how graphics do not make a game, but I am also very avid about the fact that unless you give people the exact same client they are not going to like it no matter how much you make it look like crap.

    Simply forget the people who can not run it, I mean keep it reasonable but honestly anyone who is going to run the EC for its graphical content is going to be able to run things like wow or better. Making wow the low end of the graphical changes would be the best idea in my opinion anyway.
     
  25. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    I will do this in the holidays with a clear description i have done many screenshots the last few weeks i have try to catch this lightning and arrow bug but i think i have to capture my screen to get it ;)
     
  26. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The concept of an Enhanced Client BETA is that the people making said client should be using it to "push the envelope". They had the right idea with KR, but then due to (well known and various) issues backed away from it and now seem timid to return to that route.

    The 3d client was simply too early in its production to be what it should have been, however look at the hardware we have to work with today (even compared to when KR was released).

    When KR released, 512 Meg video cards were higher end, GeForce was in it's 6X00 series, PCI-E was brand new and 1 to 2 gig of DDR RAM was standard with single core processors... not sure what Direct X was on, I think MAYBE 8 or 9.

    Now, you can grab a 1.5+ gig video card with Dirext X 10 or 11, 8 gig of DDR3 RAM and a Quad or even SIX core system... all in what... about 3 years' time?

    Yet the devs went BACKWARDS trying to placate people who were never going to accept the newer client anyway.

    Also, I want to know where the idea that Graphics and Gameplay are mutually exclusive ideas came from in the first place. Not that a game MUST have the best graphics in the world, but in an updateable system like an MMOG, shouldn't they be periodically updated to keep pace with the technology and resolutions available?
     
  27. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Books. Have. Seriously. Crippling. Issues.

    I want books fixed in the EC! I want to be able to write in a book that anyone can then read, not just fellow EC users.

    This is not something a modder can tackle, as books in the EC act as if they are in a separate universe from the ones in the CC.

    This post: Books in the EC has the discussion on how completely FUBAR they are.


    This is another thing that mystifies me. They shunted a good portion of the UI back under the internal "Generic Gump System" giving us the Legacy versions of ANimal Lore, Crafting, and several other gumps... yet did NOT do it for books where it would have made the most sense.
     
  28. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    I actually agree with most of the main desired fixes above, things like books and the legacy containers and such are big fixes I still want too. As well as addressing some problems with the house tool (I'd like to be able to make bendy stairs please) and whatnot.

    But I wanna touch on graphics for a moment.

    I don't actually buy the fact that people can't run anything more graphically intensive than the CC these days. I think those saying such are amongst the minority that have always sought to sabotage any alternative client by using the excuse as additional ammunition. (Or are trying to run UO on a netbook or their phone =P).

    I mean three to four years ago, possibly it might have had some merit. But I have had less money than I have had in a very long time and when I was forced to replace my PC (on a side note, why do these VERY OLD p200's people are running the CC on never break?), I bought a cheap off the shelf budget PC and a budget graphics card for very little money and I can run some pretty high end stuff on it.

    So if people's system specs are still a consideration in the development of the EC, then it completely baffles me.

    So do I. Graphics are incredibly useful for that thing IMMERSION, something which only makes for a much better play experience, especially in a game that seemed to focus on bringing a world to life when it was first released.

    When the KR client first came out for example, I asked if they would be looking at overhauling weather, night/day and environmental effects, and got told "It's on our radar, yo! We can do all kinds of things like that!" I still remember playing Morrowind for the first time and being blown away by the first rain storm I encountered. I wish UO had that kind of immersion, and there's no reason an isometric game can't. And it's not graphically heavy stuff either.

    Didn't happen though, but it's on my wishlist still. Along with an overhaul of the music (distance fade instead of sudden fade), environment sound effects (I wanna hear the beach/sea anytime I'm near it, not just at a few spots), and the like.

    I'd like lightsources to be more than just an aura. Why can't we have bullseye-type lanterns and such? It'd certainly give torches and lanterns a greater distinction.

    In the old 3d client, fur capes, fur boots and such had their own unique graphics. What happened to that?

    And on a side note, I DON'T want a legacy graphics option for the EC (I've noticed a shift from some of the anti-other client brigade on that front, they are more "just give us the old graphics!). I want an actual enhanced client, not a classic client with a better UI.
     
  29. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Actually I engaged in a pretty large scale pvp battle last night at a spawn, and didn't experience any lag issues. I think that was the first time I've had that happen. I was going to give the credit to the work you've done on your UI, but perhaps it was the patch as well (I'm thinking it was both).

    And I always play in full screen mode. I find most 3D applications do not run as well in windowed mode. I use the screen on my G13 for chat and I can do that with no issues in full screen mode, and I have a second monitor that I have UOC on, so there are few drawbacks for me in using full screen mode.
     
  30. DenAlton036

    DenAlton036 Guest

    WELL SAID!
    This is the whole reason we are loosing players and not seeing new ones. Period. Its IMO the best game ever, but graphically 10 years behind the rest of the gaming world. Sad...
     
  31. Fink

    Fink Guest

    I gave my house away to a friend and had to patch up to do so, so I was curious to see what has changed. Evidently, nothing.

    The friend had just returned after a four year break and was having massive issues with both clients. It took several days for him to even patch properly. This is a 12 year veteran and computer scientist, who knows all the tricks, struggling to get the game functioning in an enjoyable manner. Imagine a layman new player's experience.
     
  32. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Did he download the clients from the uo.com site, or was he trying to patch a really old version from a cd? I suppose if it was the new client it must have been from the site.
     
  33. My wishes?

    • Classic Client Theme ...Journal must look and work the same! & Skill list must look and work the same!
    • Macro recorder ...need I say more.
    • High Resolution graphics ...With an option for the standard resolution art.

    thats all =)
     
  34. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    I've just downloaded a new patch of 48MB 4.0.11.1 :O
     
  35. Fink

    Fink Guest

    He has it now, problem (eventually) solved.

    My point was nobody, let alone a games developer, should need resort to forums or tricks to get the game installed and working. It's incredible how much crap existing players will endure because of this culture of work-around and long-standing issues that everyone just pretends aren't a problem.

    Also said friend noticed, shortly after encountering all this ancient crap from before he left, that EA have no corporate memory. It's as if every new developer has to re-learn all this garbage players consider common knowledge, and exiting team members do no handover of anything they've discovered. It all gets lost in the shuffle.

    I think it says volumes of the tenacity of the players, that they're willing to stick-with and make-work the game, in spite of such a tradition of poor communication and resolution.
     
  36. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    It also says something about the product, that there is something about it that makes people willing to put up with a good deal of manure on the way to the harvest... :)
     
  37. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
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    I personally think Item 1 on your list is key. If everyone was on the EC client, aside from compatibility issues, I think bug fixes would happen faster and more content could be added to the game. It is harder to support two clients though they ARE doing it for the benefit of all the players.

    The main issue is familiarity for some, again aside from being able to actually run it w/out lag. That said, if you could toggle the hell out of the options or have a simple Classic set up where absolutely nothing changed as far as how it operated on the end of classic players upon logging in the first time with it, I think more would be on it.

    When I logged into UO for the 1st time, I didn't ask what client I had to use, I just logged on. I think the majority of us would do the same here. If we logged in and the way we are used to playing is still there, everything about the CC was operational and functional w/zero change (even with journals, paperdolls, maps ect.) then what would be the complaint? For those who enjoy and appreciate the bells and whistles that come with the EC that option is there in spades. It's a win, win :)

    But if it took more development time to focus on making the Legacy version on EC function just as the CC, would you be okay with it if in the long run it meant setting the old spaghetti code aside with everyone on one client and improving it from there? Just curious.
     
  38. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    The book issue as well as the issue of the crappy circle of transparency (Which by the way is extremely selective of WHAT it makes transparent... like it refuses to make stairs transparent! WTF is up with that? So I can NOT do custom stairs in the EC... *curses* super annoying).... make using the EC exclusively impossible. I'm sick and tired of having to log into 2d just to write in a book! Or create custom stairs.

    I was trying to participate in an EM event and got frustrated as all get out because I couldn't do something as simple as write my answers in a book...

    And after spending 20 min logging in and out of the 2d client and trying to find crap in my backpack I finally said to **** will it... and just left without turning in a book.


    On a side note however..... has anyone but me noticed that they are sneaking KR graphic art back into the game?? Don't believe me. Get in 2d and place a water plant on the ground... then go look at it in the EC. I thought I was dreaming the other day when I saw some on someones roof and I was like WTF is that a new plant???? Then I realized it was a water plant.... and they changed the graphic. (By the way it looks awesome! Right up there with the banana tree)
     
  39. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    There were a few KR graphics that have been retained, the plant you mention being one, War Axes were one, but they've been acting VERY odd swapping between the KR and Legacy versions (if you've done BODs involving them you will see this), and unlit wall torches remain KR graphics (Check Hythloth, level 2, the southwest corner double room that has the gargs in the upper portion and tha pair of daemons in the lower).

    I don't THINK I've seen any others or any additions of KR graphics being snuck back in and the War Axe issue makes me wonder if they're already in, just dummied out (except for the few for some weird reason).
     
  40. Hildebrand

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    I'm getting tired of waiting for the EC to live up to it's potential. Every patch is a let down. Just tiny little things done... as if we're in a holding pattern... waiting for something.
    Watch the live stream and it makes you wonder if they even know what's going on. They look at each other in befuddlement. :confused:

    Thank goodness for the Skin mods. Without those, I don't know what I'd do.
     
  41. gramarye

    gramarye Guest

    What is a 'Dungeon teleporter' please?
     
  42. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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  43. gramarye

    gramarye Guest

    Thank you.
     
  44. gramarye

    gramarye Guest

    Did they intend to add the escort cool-down timer to apply to prisoners? I didn't see it mentioned.
     
  45. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    That's no new change. It actually happend one or two pubs back. I think they thought the timer not applying to prisoners was a bug and thus fixed it.
     
  46. gramarye

    gramarye Guest

    Oh. Ok, thank you.
     
  47. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    So, is the email already on its orange wavy way?
     
  48. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
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    Yes *smiles*

    Merry Christmas to all and to all a good EC!

    *sets quill down and drinks some nog*