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Pub 81 - not the Bleak changes (no pun intended)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Arcades, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. Arcades

    Arcades Sage
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    Sorry with the UNWANTED stamina changes in this upcoming publish, both PvP and PvM will be affected, and we will most likely be forced into wearing heavier plate armor for warriors and samurai plate for mages.

    Also, Bleak, you effectively ruined PvM by changing Leafblade and Daisho. The entire UO Japan will be livid as know their high end PvM templates better than most.

    Please listen to the community instead of wasting your time coming up with "new" mana phasing and stamina changes. All we wanted was for ALL weapon-damage to be balanced with soul glaives, archery weapons to get some buff to compensate for 2H, and 2H weapons to be buffed for not being balanced. The entire mana cost/special move revamp should have been limited to the already useless Special Moves like: Force of Nature, Block, Defense Mastery, Frenzied Whirlwind, etc.

    As for armor, we were looking for a crafting change to metal/wood/leather/dragon scale armors instead of a stamina changing effect. We have been calling for different metal types to have different properties like wood, and special properties for Dragon scales, possible making them an "enhancing material" that can be used on any armor type (give eater property associated with color or increasing maximum elemental resist type by say 2% per piece).

    Here's the list of changes that might mean something without drastically changing the face of UO as we already know it. So many players were lost after AOS with the major overhaul of armor/weps, I cannot imagine UO surviving another mass exodus after this publish.

    1.) Keep the changes to base damage changes for all weapons but do not change the swing speeds that were altered (soul glaive, comp bow)

    2.) Keep Leafblade and Daisho with their original Special Moves (Feint/AI and Fient/Double Strike respectively)
    Your changes just made a fencing weapon War Axe (same specs) and a 2H bokuto...pointless when I would just use UBWS to get the specs if i wasnt fencing or swords.

    3.) Give 2H weapons an innate property such as Reactive Paralyze (10-20% proc) and non-disarmable with 1-handed wep.

    4.) Remove all the new Stamina changes

    5.) Armor revamp should look something like Metal and Leather armors receiving similar enhancing properties to Wood. But increase maximum elemental resistance caps for metal/wood armors (80), Bone/Studded stay as they are now (70), Leather and Cloth decreased to (60).

    6.) Dragon scales can be used to "enhance" any type of armor, and give 10% eater property related to color. 50 scales used for each enhance and Black = kinetic, Red = fire, Blue = Cold, Green = Poison, White = Energy. Since there is Gold scales, give it 50+ luck instead of eater property. Questionable to include Damage Eater as it might be overpowering and overshadow others (but possibly 20 of each colored scale, including gold).

    7.) Special Moves changes only for the less used, and completely useless ones such as: Block, Defense Mastery, Frenzied Whirlwind, Force of Nature, Mystic Arc, Psychic Attack, Serpent Arrow, Force Arrow, Armor Pierce, Bladeweave.

    8.) Please remove ALL cooldowns from the game, and replace them with mana/stam cost increases or weight increases (if i wanted cooldowns, i'd play Guild Wars)

    I play UO because I am not limited by restrictions on armor/weapons and ever since AoS nothing has been done by the DEVs but to limit classes, play styles and templates, and now ARMOR and weapons. This is ridiculous. The first thing Bleak and others should have done was say "Hey guys, we are looking to do an Armor/Weapons rebalance, please give us your thoughts before we undertake anything too crazy!"

    I hope to God you guys scrap all these useless changes and seriously consider listening to your community before you cause another mass exodus from UO...consider it job security because subscription numbers were no where near pre-AoS.
     
    #1 Arcades, Feb 2, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
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  2. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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  3. funkymonkey

    funkymonkey Lore Keeper
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    Great post, hopefully the mods wont delete it.

    Oh well.
     
  4. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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  5. Tanivar

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    Otis Leroy Funk Journeyman

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  7. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Wow -

    All this whining about the devs "limiting" stuff, when the truth is all the complaints you all have are because they are REMOVING limits that force you into 2-3 specific templates with specific gear.

    And, all for stuff that hasn't even been tested a full day yet, and may never see the light of day on the shards. Remember Proficiencies????
     
  8. Arcades

    Arcades Sage
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    Stamina debuffs to armor havent been since AoS, why re-implement them now? We should be simplifying things for new players but also making things better for the old players. I dont see how the current proposed changes do anything other than to confuse.

    Plate mail = heavy armor = less damage taken (duh)
    Leather armor = light armor = more damage taken (duh)

    The medium armors like Studded and Bone armor should have the current resistance caps of 70 for each element. Heavier armor like plate/chain/ring should increase the cap resistance 3%/2%/1% respectively but with more dex penalties -4,-3,-2 per piece. Leather and cloth should have their resistance cap lowered to 60, and no dex penalty (similar to be "cursed" from the spell). Woodland should be equivalent to chain armor. Each metal type should give additional properties that would be up for debate, same goes for leather. I think KISS will go a long way when it comes to this revamp, Keep It Simple Stupid, so everyone understands and yet it still all makes sense.

    Plate mail = +3% cap resist = full plate suit 88/88/88/88/88 but -4 dex per piece (-24 dex total for full plate suit)
    Chain mail = +2% cap resist but -3 dex per piece
    Rain mail = +1% cap resist but -2 dex per piece

    And again, DRAGON SCALES, DRAGON SCALES, DRAGON SCALES...these should be useful as an Enhancing material, whether it be adding elemental damage eater according to color or perhaps adding additional resist, or adding cap resistance. Allow dragon scale enhancing possible after reforging and enhancing with traditional materials as a little added bonus on high end crafting. 50 scales of appropriate color per enhance. For Damage Eater and All resistance cap increase only 1% allowed and requires 50 of each color scale + 100 gold scales.
    1.) 2% elemental eater
    2.) 3% elemental resist
    3.) 2% elemental cap increase
    With Black = Kinetic/Physical, Red = Fire, Blue = Cold, Green = Poison, White = Energy

    Damage Eater = 1% (requires 50 of each color scales + 100 gold scales)
    All Resistance Cap Increase 1% (requires 50 of each color scales + 100 gold scales)

    AOS really messed up armor altogether, lets try to make it right with pub 81. If you want, give each piece of heavy armor dex penalty but up the resistance cap to compensate, but not this crazy talk about stamina loss non-sense that is too difficult to implement into the game. I mean c'mon, your changes are so drastic, it takes a NEW friggin client to test them. WTF?
     
    #8 Arcades, Feb 2, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  9. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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  11. Obsidian

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    2h weapons should just have a 1.5 to 2.0 multiplier the intensity of all their properties and imbue cap and extra imbue slots. 350 luck for instance should be the max on a 2 hander, and even that is below what you can get with a one hander and shield. HCI and DCI should be at 30%. In addition, the total damage increase cap could be raised to 400% from 300% when a 2handed weapon is equipped. Drastic stuff like THAT is what is needed to make 2h weapons viable.

    Bushido should no longer mess with shield parry rates. It should just boost 2h weapon parry chances, but not reduce shield parry chances.
     
    #14 Shakkara, Feb 2, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
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  15. Odin of LS

    Odin of LS Slightly Crazed
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  16. Lord Frodo

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    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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  19. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    Honestly, there's thousands of hate posts on the forum right now so there's no way they're going to see it all.

    Everyone take this post and make you own similar ones and send in under game feedback. I've already sent mine.
     
  20. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    /signed, great post!!!

    I just copy&paste the OP text into: http://uo.com/contact (choose Game Feedback)
     
    #20 Apetul, Feb 2, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  21. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Did that before I even came here.
     
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  22. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    You currently are restricted to leather armor. It has the exact same properties as any other armor in game with free mage armor on top. So there is no choice. Just a no-brainer. And chars who don't need mana reg have just a cosmetic choice. Pretty pointless, if you ask me.
    And as far as I'm reading here, it's the same with the leafblade. Also no choice, just a no-brainer...

    Heck, this patch hasn't been live for a single day on TC and people yelling, that the sky is falling. What do you expect, what would have happened if they told you their thoughts before releasing the patch? The very same...
    This way people can at least test the changes. Find synergies. Give constructive feedback. And not just theorycrafting, which won't bring any changes...
     
  23. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    2h weps not be disarmable by 1 handed weps unless you have wrestling as well
     
  24. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    nah the sky isn,t falling, it already fell and took us all out.
    Thank you for destroying my PvM Dexxer suit, 5 PvM Chars DESTROYED/WORTHLESS
    Hephaestus Shield DESTROYED/WORTHLESS
    Mace and Shield Reading Glasses DESTROYED/WORTHLESS
    Keeonean's Chain Mail DESTROYED/WORTHLESS
    Voice of the Fallen King DESTROYED/WORTHLESS
    Royal Leggings of Embers DESTROYED/WORTHLESS

    Str 150 Hit Points 138
    Dex 135 Stamina 136
    Int 41 Mana 41

    Shame (Baja Shard) 2 Mud Pies My Hit Points never dropped below 120 and I lost 0 (ZERO) Stamina b4 both were dead. No specials/spells or aids used.
    Shame (TC1) 2 Mud Pies My Hit points never dropped below 125 and I han to leave because my Stamina dropped to 30.

    New Haven (Baja) 1 (ONE) Spellbinder casting and I took 0 (ZERO) Stamina Damage.
    New Haven (TC1) 1 (ONE) Spellbinder casting and I was taking 30-40 Stamina Damage every time.

    I hate to think what my Tamer/Mage and my Mystic/Mage will do because they both have very low Stamina.
     
  25. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    So, Lord Frodo, you have somehow PERMANENTLY TRANSFERRED everything to TC?

    Wow, how did you manage that?

    This stuff is in TESTING. It will probably never see the light of day in its current form on the regular shards, yet it somehow destroys your items as they are now?

    :facepalm:
     
  26. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    What do yoy think Char Copy is for? And there is no need for the :facepalm: BS when I cant even stand up to 2 damn Mud Pies in Shame. All my suits are medable because warriors use mana too if you didn't know that. I think you need to go wave your :cheerleader: some where else.:loser:
     
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  27. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    This is exactly the reaction, which is completely counterproductive.

    1. These are changes put on TC for player feedback. Nothing final yet.
    2. The patch notes read clearly armor revamp PART 1. Everyone has yet to see, what part 2 will be and how the whole changes look like.

    Jeez, you guy really need to shift down one gear....
     
  28. pumpkin_escobar

    pumpkin_escobar Journeyman

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  29. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    I still think changing any armor with different caps is a bad idea, especially with leather not being able to go over 60 in this example.
     
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  30. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    OMG This is just so funny, do you even bother reading what people are saying? Part 2 is suppose to fix all this, LOL. Here let me make a post for you and you can just copy it and paste it in.

    Thrakkar
    :banana::danceb::banana: This is the GREATEST thing UO has ever done. :danceb::banana::danceb:
    :thumbsup::cheerleader::thumbsup::cheerleader::thumbsup::cheerleader::thumbsup::cheerleader::thumbsup::cheerleader::thumbsup::cheerleader:
     
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  31. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    /Signed
     
  32. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    You people are so polarized...

    Yay, thanks! But unfortunately I never said, it's the greatest. I'm just trying not to condemn all changes from the first minute on. The changes won't make it to production the next few weeks. So maybe we could delay the witch hunt a little bit....
     
  33. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    R U NEW? They always say they are going to listen to the feed back, then publish it anyway. They listen but they dont do anything thats been asked for. This is the main problem, we have all heard it before. Next thing you know its going live to all shards.
     
    #33 Winker, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
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  34. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    Yep just like the last publish that went from test center strait to Origin and then live in less than a weeks time. It also caused the biggest revert known to date I believe.
     
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  35. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    QFT
     
  36. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    :coco::rolleyes::loser::hahaha::lame::sleep2:
     
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  37. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    No, you said your stuff on your home shard is destroyed. How is Test Center destroying your gear that is still at home after being copied???

    It's not. The only BS above is you thinking I'm cheerleading, and that you are not the one BSing.


    Frodo, here's you a history lesson....

    MY TEMPLATES, SUITS AND GEAR were completely invalidated on TC by the PROFICIENCY SYSTEM. Guess what? They are still around today, because Proficiencies NEVER LEFT TC, after MONTHS of testing. Odds are, we will see several publishes before a decision is made to either push through the final version (which will be way different from the parts we see on TC right now), or the concept being banished to the realm of vaporware like UO2 and UXO.

    Hysterics aren't going to help.

    If you want to help, join me in asking that the 3 year old nerfing of humans to where JOAT doesn't apply to Weapon Special Move Mana Reduction gets removed, since that move contributed to 99% of non-gargoyle PvM weapons users becoming Elven Sampires (and made most PvPers go elf as well).
     
    #37 Basara, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  38. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    With these changes all my warriors (5) are all useless now on TC. So yes they have DESTROYED all my gear with these changes. A spellbinder on TC drops my stamina with spells alone like I am wearing nothing. 2 Mud Pies in Shame (TC) drops my Stamina to almost nothing all the while I am taking 1-5 hit point damage in about 1 min. Tell me they didn't just DESTROY all my suits. All my suits are Mage Armor.

    Did you not read in post #24 where it saws (Baja) and (TC). Note the difference.
     
    #38 Lord Frodo, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  39. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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  40. chise2

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    Yeah I have to agree. I mean I am VERY concerned about these changes and yeah I was pretty mad when I read some of the changes and let me say that testing armor did not make me feel any better! However I think that is why it is important to try and remain as calm as possible test these changes and give feedback and suggestions. They have assured us they are listening more then once. And that does give me some hope that that means we will actually see some tweaks and overhauls to this publish. But I think if we want them to be good tweaks and overhauls good feedback is necessary.
     
  41. KLOMP

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    People aren't really going to calm down until someone in authority says "Sorry, this was all dumb and we're officially not doing this. Our bad." They've seen the song-and-dance about listening to feedback (followed by blindly plunging ahead with bad ideas anyway) too often to be calm when the devs are basically threatening to wreck the game.

    I got yelled at by someone for necroing some old thread earlier because OMG we have other things to worry about, publish 81 is going to ruin UO. People are officially having a cow and barely even want to hear about anything else.
     
    #41 KLOMP, Feb 4, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
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  42. PlayerSkillFTW

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    The problem with "Reactive Paralyze", is that it still is based upon your Eval skill. A Warrior wielding a Wep or Shield with Reactive Paralyze will only Paralyze someone for a quarter of a second at most if they don't have Eval.

    The reason why they're doing the Stamina changes, is because people were relying on Total Refresh Pots and Hit Stam Leech to completely substitute for the Focus skill. The same way that people were using Greater Cure Pots/Orange Petals to substitute for Resisting Spells against Poison, and the same way people are using Dart Trapped Boxes to substitute for Resisting Spells against Paralyze (the only reason this has been kept in, is because mage Paralyze has no Diminishing Returns, and Evil Omen makes Resist moot).
    Warriors (Dexxers) were intended to use Focus, and Mages were intended to use Meditation. Warriors will just have to drop the Med with Leather Armor, and pick up Focus with Plate Armor, while Mages can do what we did in the old days to restore Stam, eat a fish steak.

    Something tells me you didn't quite comprehend the Stamina changes to armor. They're not giving you DEX/Stam penalties for wearing heavy armor (like it used to be Pre-AoS). They're making you take less Stam damage from combat while wearing heavier armor. Getting hit in the stomach by a Q-Staff while wearing Plate Armor won't knock the wind out of you, but it certainly will if you're wearing Leather Armor.

    A better way to do it, would be to give Dragon Armor an innate Eater property that doesn't count towards imbuing caps, depending on Scale color.
    Black Dragon Armor - 5% Kinetic Eater per piece.
    Red Dragon Armor - 5% Fire Eater per piece.
    White Dragon Armor - 5% Cold Eater per piece.
    Green Dragon Armor - 5% Poison Eater per piece.
    Blue Serpent Armor - 5% Energy Eater per piece.
    Yellow Dragon Armor - 2% Damage Eater per piece.
     
    #42 PlayerSkillFTW, Feb 4, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
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  43. Lythos-

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    I REALLY like this. If they would put ALL armor medable and tweak base resists based on material and type used it would be THE perfect armor revamp.
     
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  44. zamot

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    Something tells me you have not Tested this. They have scaled the lost stamina % to your stamina pool. The more stamina you have the more loss you take, even with plate, Plate will give you a smaller amount of loss but taking 1 point of damage and you lose a a chunk of stamina. I still have not figured out the % loss for metal armor. Bleak gave this in the other thread and to be honest I have more questions after he posted this.

    Like if I m human in all plate (given all plate you wont have 100% protection) does it take being human into account and add to what ever the % loss is going to be?
     
  45. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    The stamina regen factored in from focus is not enough to keep a dexers stamina afloat. It has been a very long time since focus was used like this, which is why it got turned into the compliment to mysticism.
     
    #45 Cetric, Feb 5, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
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  46. LetheGL

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    This all seems familiar: change to necro requiring 99 skill to maintain vamp embrace. The sky is falling!!!
    The changes to chiv awhile back. The sky is falling!!!

    We adapted and sampires are still ballin' ( shameless Tupac and Trick Daddy reference ). Bonnie said they want input from actual players. Instead of just reading the publish notes and complaining, get on TC1 and test the portions you have issues with. Come back to the boards and post constructive and valid ideas...
     
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  47. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    I have tested on TC and here's a constructive idea: Trash the whole goddamn publish. This is the worst publish since AOS.

    There's a reason I continue to play and subscribe to Ultima Online with multiple accounts and that's because I like the way it is. If you want change ADD NEW CONTENT; don't mess with the content which is the exact reason I continue to subscribe. It's their prerogative to change the game I enjoy and it's my prerogative to change my subscription to some other Online game.

    How's that for change?

    Arcades has posted the best constructive ideas to date that have been posted anywhere on stratics.
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  48. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

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    The ONLY Changes I want to see is a MASSIVE nerf to Gagish wraith throwers... sick and tired of seeing them cart away every single EM drop on multiple shards. Something NEEDS fixed on that. Want to talk about templates being unfair that is it. Fed up with it.
     
  49. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

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    Disagree MalagAste...

    While I understand your frustration at Events and fighting for drops the Thrower is the template I primarily play and I don't want to see if nerfed. I enjoy it the way it is and that's why I keep paying my subscription fees.

    I don't know what game everyone else is playing but go take a Thrower to solo Bedlam, or Meraktus, or Primevil and tell me how overpowered they are. Certain templates thrive in certain scenerios. Go throw a sampire with feint up against Osiredon and see how well he does or against Ilhenir and Grizzle and see how you like the effects of what happens to your beloved suit.

    Also want to comments about your stance on 1H Throwing vs. 2H Archery. Archers can use Dragon Barding which is a HUGE advantage (20% Damage Reduction). You may not want to use Dragon Barding and forgive me, but anyone with half a brain would do well do sign on for a 20% reduction to all damage taken. It's a huge benefit.

    If Archery DPS gets matched with Thrower I see myself playing a Archer just as much as a Thrower.
     
  50. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    ROFL, most honest post ever. Hey devs, no nerfing throwers, Madrid plays one. Just grant them the mantle of godhood. LOL.
     
    Lord Frodo and virtualhabitat like this.