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Pub 86 - Traders Quest

Discussion in 'UO Test Center' started by Kyronix, Jul 18, 2014.

  1. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    Post issues related to Traders Quest here

    Known issues as of 7/18/2014 4:52pm

    Ambusher mob scaling is not functioning properly
    Ambushers can spawn too close to other ambusher mobs
    Ambusher mobs can remain if abandoned for too long
    Deposits are made to the destination city treasury instead of the origin city treasury
     
    #1 Kyronix, Jul 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
  2. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    A kraken that ambushed me on the trade quest
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    Thanks for the report, we definitely need to tone down the scaling. Try setting your stats and skills lower when accepting the quest. That should result in less scaling.
     
  4. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Not sure if this is a bug:

    You can take the box + the items required and go to your destination with no ambushes. But if you actually FILL the box before you head out, THEN ambushes happen. Seems people right now can avoid ambushes entirely by waiting to fill it until they get to their destination
     
  5. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Tried that, and while it DID scale down, not having high skills just meant they killed just as fast. @_@ Seems ill have to pray to the RNG on the ambushes to keep testing atm
     
  6. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    You can set them back up...the check is done when you accept the trade order.
     
  7. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Ok good to know. Figured the check was done when they spawned.

    Btw, Slim the fence moves every time I complete the quest. I take this as intended, but wont this get quite annoying if you have multiple people trying to do the quest?
     
  8. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    It's something we went back and forth on. On the one side we didn't want to plop him in one spot to be camped by would be thieves/PKs but on the other I definitely could see trying to find him getting annoying. We'll have to think about it!
     
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  9. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    I'm just worried about people racing each other to get there, someone turns it in, and those other players just end up having to sail to a whole other location and hope no one turns it in before them.
     
  10. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    Feedback noted!
     
  11. Cocaine1

    Cocaine1 Seasoned Veteran

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    Concerning Trade deal "Filling From Backpack":

    I got a deal for 15 Composit bow and few of my weapons in my Backpack (Reforged/Imbuied...) is exaclty Composit Bow
    I dicided to try that option and it turns that my 70% HML Composits instantly gos into the Trade Deal chest.
    Sure i can return it easy from chest, but i just can did't notice that my very valuble item from backpack is moved to trade deal box.
    I belive same problem for all other weapons, Robe's etc.
     
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  12. MedeaDF

    MedeaDF Seasoned Veteran
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    Maybe you are aware that "Sliem the Fence" is an active NPC-Quest Giver Gargoyle in Ter Mur City? I was confused when I heard that he will be the Trade Quester (why should he?). And then I noted the small name difference...

    sliem-the-fence.jpg

    Just saying, maybe there is the possibility you could rename the new Slim to prevent future confusion... thanks :)
     
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  13. Speranza

    Speranza Slightly Crazed
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    Probably won't be an issue since getting into Ter Mur requires "magical" means of some sort.
     
  14. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Doing them with one character, not at the skill cap, with a sorceror suit so scaling of the encounters would, I thought, be fairly low - thankfully he is a stealther/ninja/mage, or he would be dead so many times over it would be enough to make me give up in disgust.... every creature is 95 in all resists, 151 in all combat skills, and several thousand HP (Ettins were 4.5k, dire wolves 3.5k), never saw spawn groups below 6 creatures, all move VERY fast. This is so far over the top I can't think how anyone EVER reckoned it was sensible....

    If you do these trade deals with stealth you are just going to fill the world with super-powered monsters, presumably also aggressive to everyone else as well as the carrier of a trade deal, bit hard to test that one solo..... and even if they are short life mobs, the potential for making travel hideously dangerous is far too high - and if someone takes a trade deal box to a RP town (where people tend to use far from optimised gear) and hides... the stuff it spawns will be massacring most RP folks faster than you would believe...

    If you want to do trade quests to benefit a city .... it's silly. You can choose which city you get a trade quest FROM, but all the benfits go to the city you deliver to... and you do not get to see that until after you accept the offer of a quest, so if I want to support my city, I have to sit there accepting and rejecting quests until I get one for the 'right' place?
     
  15. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I tried to fill the order with pattern bolt of clothes from the npc vendor, did not work, had to be plain.
    Except for the crazy spawn, I love this quests and hope to see a lot of travelers using the roads and the sea aagain.

    I hope we will get to test it on a Siege mirror as we only have Felucca. It will effect all 3 parts of this public and I'm worried something goes wrong :)
     
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  16. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    I haven't been able to test this yet and probably won't really have a chance to until next week... but it seems like the rewards for NOT turning in the trade quest look much more interesting than the rewards FOR turning it in.

    And random city? RANDOM CITY?! This governor is NOT pleased.
     
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  17. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    What do you mean with not turning in? You just turn it in a different place. We had not seen the rewards for 5 liners yet.
    I do agree, if you are loyal to a town at least some of the money should go to there.
     
  18. Speranza

    Speranza Slightly Crazed
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    Is this thread for bugs only? I have several issues with the content of the Trader's Quest and want to address it in the correct location.
     
  19. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    Would it be possible to make the difficulty of the ambush spawn scale only accordingly to the sum of the fighting skills the character has instead of the total skill points it has?
    I'd rather do these quests with my crafters, and I don't think tailoring, cooking, blacksmithing, arms lore and imbuing will help me much in the task of vanquishing my assailants. :p
    Unless I can throw food around to distract them and pull a brave sir Robin to get rid of the spawn.
     
  20. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    Sure, feel free. This is a little more organized than a giant thread on UHall.
     
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  21. The Old Man

    The Old Man Journeyman
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    Is the INTENT that a newbie could do the quest and be ambushed by 'Mongbats' and stand a chance of winning?

    Can we please have the gold going to the city we get the quest from rather than the destination, so we can choose which city to support without getting & quiting quests until we get the destination we want.

    Thank You :)
     
  22. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    Ideally we want to scale the difficulty of the mobs to be a challenge for those participating with respect to their overall power level. It's going to take a lot of play testing to dial it in just right, but I'm confident we'll get there.

    Yes, you should see the change of which city gets the deposit in our next TC1 publish. Thanks for the feedback :D
     
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  23. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Didn't help.
    I set skills to 50, took an order and set off then just outside the city I re-set skills to 120. Mobs spawned, EVs could barely touch them and all attempts to disco/provo/peace met with total failure.
    I only succeeded provo once, and realised very quickly why when the giant spider died in one hit - I'd gotten one of the regular overland spawn among the ambushers :D
     
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  24. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    By "not turning it in" I mean taking it to Slim the Fence. Fencing the goods isn't really helpful to the city. ;)
     
  25. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Kyronix, please don't take offense as I'm going to be rather blunt.

    We don't want event-level mobs. We don't want Covetous L4 mobs. We don't want uber mobs of any kind. "Challenge" is completely relative. A lot of people want to do these missions on a crafter, not a tank. Remember, this is part of an RP system - don't alienate your core audience. Take an existing mob and double its HP, bump its resists *a bit,* bump its combat skills *a little.* Don't go overboard.

    The rewards... Will delivering to Slim give gold for your city (after the current gold bug is fixed)? If not, this system will be a failure since the potential rewards for going to Slim far outweigh those for doing it "properly." The crafting rewards are a joke as they are as well. 50 spined leather? Dragon scales? Try adding a zero, then it might be worthwhile. People would be elated to receive 500 bloodwood or frostwood. 50 would be a good amount for imbuing resources though. I'd also suggest good versions of Slim's rewards, something like a "a beautiful scene of Britain" painting - city name either random, or based on your destination.

    Delivering to Slim should definitely give karma loss, loyalty loss or both.

    Delivery gold could use a bump. Even at 30k, it would take 67 deliveries a week to fund a trade deal. While the first few weeks will probably see these numbers on a nearly daily basis, numbers will drop precipitously after that as people lose interest.
     
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  26. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    As has been noted, there's an issue with the mob scaling. We don't want it to be overly challenging either, but the expectation that a crafter should be able to do it doesn't fit. This wasn't made as a crafter quest. That being said you can outrun the ambush mobs if you chose.

    Rare resources are included as trade delivery rewards. Nice suggestions for "good versions" as well. We'll continue to monitor how Slim's end plays out.

    The gold rewards scale up as well. A five property crate with a max distance bonus nets upwards 200k to the stone.

    Thanks for the feedback! I didn't think you were too blunt. It was quite constructive!
     
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  27. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    But then once again resource gathering ends up in the hands of the fighters instead of those with actual resource gathering skills. :(
    Can we expect something to be done in the future to make lumberjacking and mining more enticing then?
    I don't want to always have to fight and kill stuff to get basic crafting resources such as ingots and lumber. :(
     
  28. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    You dont have to fight now either. Even with the mobs completely borked scaling, they are easy to run away from.

    Unless you plan to do this all on foot, while RP walking.
     
  29. BeaIank

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    I have 200+ ms ping.
    Running away is not always easy, even on a horse. :p
     
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  30. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
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    I got one question Kyronix : does killing the monters that ambushes you, increases the chances at a rare drop for The Slime Fence or maybe increase the chances at a 2x, 3x,4x or 5x items for your next crates orders ? If yes to any , does the difficulty of the monsters also increase that chance further ?

    Ive done 34 quests so far and here my results ( all 1 x item crates):

    quest.jpg

    11 x forged pardon
    11 x skeleton keys
    12 x 1,0 sots
     
    #30 Quickblade, Jul 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
  31. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Well, I strongly urge you to err on the side of 'less is more,' as way to much of the new content recently is geared for uber-kitted twink templates with tons of time on their hands. Think less L4 Covetous and more L1 or L2 of Shame.

    I suggest you try to court the crafters. Trade Orders say merchant to me, not just warriors. Make crafting skills not weigh anything when spawning the mobs, this a "weak" crafter will get relatively easy things.

    But saying that its not for crafters and then rewarding crafting resources is... illogical.

    200K is a decent amount of gold! Once you reach a crate of 5 items will you always get one?
     
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  32. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    Yes, once you get five it stays at five.
     
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  33. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    That is exactly what TC forum is for! :)
     
  34. Riyana

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    Everything @Dot_Warner said.

    Also, you need to be able to choose what city you wish to benefit... or, better yet, the city that benefits is the city that your character is a citizen of. Better rewards for higher loyalty to that city! Make loyalty worth something.

    Taking items to Slim should lower loyalty.

    The traders quest was hinted at in the Governors' Forum and at at least one dev Meet and Greet as being something that would benefit the governor/loyalty system. However, choosing NOT to "help the city" by taking the stuff to Slim the Fence has MUCH better rewards than turning it in to the city. Fifty spined leather versus a forged pardon or a 1.0 SoT... not to mention the new stuff that can't be obtained elsewhere? Come on now. Furthermore, since it's random, the RP aspect of "helping your city" is pretty weak.

    Some kind of city-themed rewards in the cities would be nice too.
     
  35. Speranza

    Speranza Slightly Crazed
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    Hello @Kyronix

    Thank you for taking our feedback on this. I apologize for the length of this feedback and I hope you at the very least read it till the end. I will be addressing the Trader's Quest in detail from the perspective of a player who only plays as a Governor and expected the Trader Quest to be a benefit to the Governor system and provide content to other play styles at the same time. My Feedback will be inline with the patch notes copied below and I've cut notes out that are working well:

    Trade Ministers will now offer players the ability to deliver goods between cities in exchange for a variety of rewards! (YAY)

    • Items required to fill the trade order are generated from the real time inventories of shop keepers in the region. (Meh, why no player crafted items?)
    • Up to five items in varying quantities can be applied to a trade order and are based on the total number of trade orders a player has completed. (I'd love some expansion on this point, is this based on grinding or City Loyalty? It should be City Loyalty)
    • While delivering the trade order players may be randomly ambushed by monsters. (Awesome! This promotes team work and you have adequately addressed the scaling issues elsewhere)
    • Killing monsters while delivering a trade order provides a bonus to the amount of gold the destination city treasury receives up to a capped number of kill per delivery. (COOL... Wait no not cool. Destination City? That's illogical, shouldn't Moonglow be paying for the goods I just brought from Minoc?)
    • Trade orders with greater distances between the origin and destination city will boost the amount of gold deposited to the destination city treasury as well as the amount of resources rewarded. (Awesome, but see last comment)
    • When a player successfully returns a filled trade order to the correct destination city’s Trade Minister they have a chance of receiving a variety of rewards including,
      • 1 in a set of story books with a unique story from each of the loyalty cities. Each player is eligible for one set of books and will receive a new one each time a book is rewarded. (Love it)
      • A random NPC guild sign (Love it)
      • Random resources for blacksmithing, carpentry, tailoring, and imbuing (Hate it)
      • (Wait... That's it? 2 unique sets and some random resources? No BoDs, no Town Banners, no Virtue related gear, no Title, not even city loyalty? Even rehued pixel crack would be good (Although don't get rid of the guild signs omg must have))
    • A deposit of funds will also be made to the destination city’s treasury. (WHAT!? This must be backwards good Sir! When was the time you had a pizza delivered and the delivery man paid you?)
    • A player may also opt to deliver a completed trade order to Slim the Fence for rewards including, (YES Awesome! PvP and an FU to the Governor. This is totally in spirit of UO, but wait... These rewards are amazing! Why would anyone help the cities when I can get items that will actually sell well on a Vendor?)
      • A forged pardon (cough cough)
    What follows are my proposed fixes. They are minor changes to the system and would make a huge difference. In the current iteration, we currently have no incentive to support the Virtue city of our choice:
    • I start in City A, Deliver to City B, City A gets the Treasury reward.
    • I start in City A and I get City A loyalty.
    • I deliver to City B and get an item of equal value to what Slim gives. Maybe even toss in some Alacrity Scrolls to both sides. A cool and functional RP item would be "A pardon from city <random>" that functions the same way as A forged pardon.
    • I deliver to Slim, and I lose City Faction.
     
  36. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I have an issue vs the part where you die and lose the order. On Siege/Mugen and I guess Felucca too, dying to a player will delete the box. I can see in Trammel, there may need to be some challenge and it may be ok if you die to the spawn.
    It will make me feel bad, if I kill a player and his quests get ruined. What about letting the box drop on your corpse, can't be removed from it unless you loot your self. If your corpse decay with it, you will have to start a new guests, but else you can go on after res.
    PKing is not almost meant to be grief, but losing the order/box will feels like griefing, even when the kill only was meant to share some fun. It will make hate, even when the PK don't loot much if anything. I can hear the complains in gen chat "why did you ruin my quest?"
    Let the quest runner go on with his quest after dying. If someone sink your ship, you do not lose your fish quests so why did you choose to make it happen here. If dying to the abusing spawn, it may make sense as they are trying to stop you from deliver but I still believe it will give a lot of crying. Maybe make dying lover the rewards a little as the box took some damage.
     
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  37. BeaIank

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    I know I would take resources over the rewards Slim offer any time, but I have to agree that:

    1. The player that delivers to goods to Slim should take a city loyalty penalty if any of the two cities involved in the trade is the city he is loyal to.
    2. The player needs to take a huge karma hit from doing that.
    3. The rewards from Slim needs to be scaled better. From the looks of it right now, it is too rewarding. No problems with it paying better than the "good" version, but some new reward distribution is needed. Adding some lesser items as rewards would balance things out and would make the 1.0 and forged pardons rarer.

    I do love the concept of this trader's quest, and I think it will be an awesome addition to the game once the spawn issue and the reward issues are addressed (please, make crafting skills not count towards the spawn strength, pretty pretty please with sugar on top).
    The good version of the rewards could get some minor boost. Increase the resources amount a bit, add some nice rare items or deco to it as rare rewards and we will be good to go.
    There has to be a way to make sure we will be helping our city, not only the city where the goods are delivered. Splitting the gold that goes to the city coffers between both cities could solve this problem.

    And thanks for bringing this new mechanism to the game. It will be fun to do them to relax. :)
     
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  38. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    So - these quests work in a very similar way to the fishing quests. We won't really see the best rewards till we're delivering crates with more items in. The '50 spined leather' Dot Warner mentioned is an 'entry level' one item type, low quantity, in the crate reward?

    I think I will enjoy these quests, once the mobs are handleable, and journeys between towns carrying goods in RL earlier times were not without their dangers. I can relate 'ambushers' in UO quite easily with such figures as Richard Turpin, Ned Kelly or Jesse James. (heheh Can't give the famous English Highway Man his better known name, the profanity filter accepts a more recent meaning of the word)
     
    #38 Petra Fyde, Jul 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2014
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  39. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Yes they seem to remind a lot about fishing quests.

    My next wish is, that they trash the BoD system and make a crafter version of this one, so you get an order like the large BoDs but without having to collect the small BoDs first. Then the rewards should be something like the rewards we have now for BoDs. 1-6 different kind of crafted items with 5-20 of each and delivered to a town. Maybe you should be allowed to magic transferee here, but like with fishing, if you cancel an order, you lose reputation and get a smaller order next time. Maybe add the heartwood quests to a system like this too. BoDs are very hard for players with a small home and it take far to long time sorting BoDs.
     
  40. Tempest992001

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    is Slim the Fence only in fellucia or is he in tram?
     
  41. FrejaSP

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    Only in Felucca, Nujelm, Ocllo and Serpent's Hold
     
  42. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Fel. The note you get explains it a bit,

    [​IMG]
     
  43. Frarc

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    First of all I like the concept of the quest. :)

    I must say, the encounter is a bit hard. A 6 X Legendary pure warrior had 1 encounter with 2 brigands and a troll, he could barely damage them. :) I kept running till I got in Britain.( 5 diamonds: Reward 30K of gold, 100 green dragon scales)

    We also tried with a group of 3 . The pure warior , a pure tamer and a Mystic/Fencer. We all took the quest in Jhelom. When we all 3 set foot on land we got swarmed by the encounter and had no chance at all. We did kill them all 1 by one but it took 1,5 hour to kill them all (2 brigands,3 dire wolfs, 2 orc captains, a ettin and 3 gargoyles.) My biggest surprise was that you fail the quest after you get killed. (Barrel/crates gone)We hoped if we killed the monsters we would be able to get our crate/barrel back and continue our quest. :)

    One thing I do miss is Loyalty gain for the city you do the quest for. By killing the monsters and/or by delivering the trade goods.
     
  44. Jerec KTM

    Jerec KTM Journeyman

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    Rewards for going to Slim need to be dialed back or the reward for helping the city needs to increase. That or huge karma loss/loyalty loss. It's a video game, people are almost always going to choose the option that helps themselves rather than the community. If this doesn't help fund trade deals, then we are just going to be stuck hearing small shards complain they can't fund anything.
     
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  45. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

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    Sometimes there will be better rewards for doing bad thing. I do agree, that a little karma or loyalty loos would be fair. Good vs Evil had always been a part of the game. If you don't like it, you can follow him to Fel to punish him :p
    You call it a Video game, I will call it a RP game
     
  46. Jerec KTM

    Jerec KTM Journeyman

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    I have no problem with bad getting better rewards than good. Being bad has always been more rewarding than good. However, I draw the line when you make the rewards for being bad overwhelming when the purpose of the system was to help alleviate the massive funding problem most shards not named Atlantic have. If this doesn't alleviate the funding problem, then what was the point of tying this to the governor system? I for one am sick of looking at the Governor's forum and every other thread being BUILD ME A JAIL (wtf?) or WE NEED THE TRADE DEAL COST LOWERED (x1000). If the devs actually listened to the player base for once (hahahaha HAHAHAHAHAAHA 555555555), maybe one of those regularly occurring stupid threads would stop.
     
  47. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

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    Maybe you need a stronger community on your shard. The Governor system are effected of the players on the shard. If to little community feeling, it may fail.
    If the citizen are loyal, and want it to work, they will try to help the funding. But if the trader do not feel loyal to any Trammel town, he will fence it :)
     
  48. Jerec KTM

    Jerec KTM Journeyman

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    I think you are missing my point, this constant gripe about funds is never going to end until they address the funding issue that is a problem on MOST (not a couple or few) shards. Saying you need a stronger community doesn't solve the problem created by the DEVS with their insanely stupid way of addressing the trade deal bonuses. My shard has a great community and will be fine, but we can't move on to improving the governor system until the shouts from small shards over their lack of funds stops clogging up the forums.

    This was supposed to help address it. Instead, so far, all they have done is put lipstick on the pig by making it way more valuable for a person to fence the items than donate to the city. Fencing should have a larger reward, but it shouldn't to the point that it makes a person feel downright stupid for helping the city rather than collecting the phat loot from Slim.
     
  49. Veldrane

    Veldrane Journeyman
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    I agree with your concerns and they just came on test to tell us that they'll be changing the reward monies to go toward the issuing city instead of the destination city. I know that doesn't address your main concern but it does help a little.

    As for your main concern, I'd like to see what the rewards are for the higher tier deliveries before before we get out the pickforks. ( I'm not saying you are - I'm speaking in general terms and metaphorically).
     
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  50. Jerec KTM

    Jerec KTM Journeyman

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    I've not gone Rambo yet because we haven't seen the tier 5 rewards. I've been on TC all day working on them, don't know if I will make it to tier 5 though this weekend.