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Public apology to Lord Casca and Commander Nathan Hawke!!

Discussion in 'UO Europa' started by THP, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    What we witnessed tonight was embarising and uncomfortable...we had guilds squabbling and people even declaring there dis-trust to Lord Casca infront of Lord Casca himself while the Commander was at his side bowing his own head in disbelief???...''Treason'' springs to mind!! thank the high gods Lord Casca left without taking such action ....leaving the poor Commander to pick up the pieces...and hide his red blushing face.....

    My thoughts are to maybe resurrect the Royal Guard were peeps who trust the new king and what to be lead by the new commander can join and fight under one army...one banner .. and one colour..for the common good!!
     
  2. Valas

    Valas Guest

    Sosaria isnt a perfect world, there will always be some disruption between people. Its all about the RP, this stuff would of happend aswell if we were in actual sosarian times.
     
  3. cheerful

    cheerful Guest

    And the commander throwing his cloak to the floor before leaving us with head bowed and heart heavy with despair.

    All the 'infighting' will only aid the Shadowlords to victory so some kind of unity needs to be found amoungst the peoples of Sosaria.

    I for one await the call of the Bloodguard, for in them I trust.

    Alyx Astarsis.
     
  4. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    I agree, it was embarassing. Whilst trust must be earned neither has done anything to cause mistrust and what the land needs most when in peril is a leader.

    The peasant oafs who were most vociferous merely demonstrated their ill-bred upbringing and lack of understanding.

    While the various factions squabble amongst themselves and complain about our new leaders, you may be sure the Shadowlords have no such problems and will attack us with cohesion and integration. Such attacks will be ferocious and our only chance to withstand them will be to fight together and have no concern if our leader has 'pointy ears'. The shape of his ears will matter little in the coming conflict, what will, is his ability to lead and thus far this appears adequate.

    And so I will follow our leaders even unto death and if one should play us false sobeit, but at this time of peril one has to trust someone and I see no alternative to those we have.

    Certainly I have no wish to follow any of the leaders of the minor armies in our midst with their only loyalties being to themselves.

    These small 'Kingdoms within a Kingdom' would be obliterated by the Shadowlords if fighting alone yet they persist in their visions of independance and autocracy, little realising the realities of 'divide and conquer'.

    To fight together as one people, one nation, one Kingdom, one Sosaria is the only way we can prevail and mistrust has little place in this scenario.
     
  5. Seasseragh

    Seasseragh Guest

    Hatred - Falsehood - Cowardice

    These anti-principles are not just what the Shadow Lords stand for, strife for and thrive on, they ARE those emotions. They are not your run-off-the-mill brigand, necromancer or dictator, they are the anti-virtues given form, and they are here, now.

    They don´t seek to conquer, they seek to spread what they they stand for, feeding and growing stronger on our very own emotions. We have seen a lot of that last night showing how succesfull they and their puppet Casca are. Yes, you hear right, I said it, Casca is in league with the Shadow Lords. Why else would a man that causes so much controversy make a grab for the throne?

    You all made valid points for unity and trust and you are right, but Casca is not the man to rally behind.

    What we need to do is fight without hating our enemy, be smart without being false and save our forces without being cowardly. Difficult? Yes! Impossible? No!

    But most of all we need to find the Shadow Lords, those Avatars of Anti-Virtue and banish them from our world and our hearts, back to their rightful place where their influence on us is limited to as much as it should be.

    After last night I put all my hopes in Commander Hawke, but ask him to honestly reevaluate his relation to Casca.
     
  6. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    You could well be right. However a Kingdom united is a powerful force indeed and could well survive a false leader. One such, when identified, could be replaced; there is however little chance of a disjointed Kingdom surviving.

    We already know the power of a united people, this was demonstrated during the last invasion when, despite repeated attacks, it was eventually driven back and defeated.

    This was achieved WITHOUT a real leader, the people of Sosaria, united, triumphed as they have many times before and can again.

    So if Casca, false or no, unites the people it must be a positive outcome.

    Let us therefore become as one behind both our present leaders, if one fails us we still have another, if both, then at least we will be united to stand against our enemy.

    I too, am not yet ready to shout 'Hail Casca' 'Hail the King' that is for a later time, but I am ready to fight alongside my fellows in a common cause.
     
  7. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    But what if said leader is uniting the people to a false end??

    What if he is drawing us further into the palms of our enemies??

    What if he is actually diverting our gaze from the true evil lurking??

    What happens if we all follow him blindly to our own dooms??

    Would we then be able to continue under the rule of the "King"?
     
  8. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    I can only hope Ulrich the Captain of the Guard that saved Casca from his fortress dungeon when people found Casca imprisoned there - AND rewarded the towns people with great reward for finding our newly crowned King!! will finally step foward out of the shadows...and tell the naysayers that indeed Casca is fit to be our king!! Captain Ulrich is a well known member of the old Royal guard.....So can pledge his allieance to Casca and show ALL the people of Brittania that this man be it elf or human is fit to rule our Land!!!

    What say yee?? Ulrich- Captain of the Guard..!!

    What say yee?? Nathan Hawke- Commander of the Guard...will your Captain help you convince the naysayers and boo boys of our once peacefull land?
     
  9. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    I will stand by my fellow sosarians to the death, i WILL not blindly follow a man of such...ambiguous character.
     
  10. Seasseragh

    Seasseragh Guest

    Ulrich a well-known member of the Royal Guard?

    I only know him as the guy who snatched Averys job.
     
  11. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Now avery...hes a man i would have stood by!!

    Im betting he was framed!!
     
  12. Saunders

    Saunders Lore Keeper
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    I do not understand all this political argument. Sir Nathan is a brave man and he speaks with the strength of a true heart. Lord Clainin greeted him like a father, too. Such a man I would follow into the depths of the Abyss.
    Sir Nathan tells us that we must follow Lord Casca. This is much simpler than going into the Abyss, isn't it? Surely a good and honest man like Sir Nathan would not mislead us, and make us follow somebody evil?
    Lord Irvyn, who is very kind and patient to try to teach wisdom to somebody like me, who finds big ideas very troublesome, says that he has been advising Lord Casca. This is good, because Lord Casca has been advised by an experienced and wise Sosarian lord.
    Mr Stewan is a very wise and clever man who tells wonderful stories and is good at cooking as well, so he knows many useful things, and he says Lord Clainin (scribbled out and replaced with Lord Casca) can't be trusted, which puzzles me because just because Lord Casca is an elf and forgot to put on his shirt does not mean he can't be trusted. My friend Fruitbat is an elf and sometimes she forgets much more than her shirt but that does not make her a bad person, just a bit forgetful.
    It all makes my head hurt. All my heart says is that we must trust the leaders that we are sent because otherwise the whole world will fall apart.
    I would like to say to Sir Nathan and Lord Casca that we are very sorry, and that my friend Fruitbat says pro tempore does not mean the king has a bad temper.
    (signed)
    Cerys Slowtree

    *deepest blushes for errors*
     
  13. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Iam kinda guessing u took ''many'' a spring cleaning token of thanks from Capt Ulrich when we found Casca in the dungeon....ohh i remember Capt Ulrich being everyone best freind for a few weeks....damn some of u guys/gals of Britannia could not get enough of him!!!!
     
  14. Seasseragh

    Seasseragh Guest

    Six and it took me one day, but what´s your point?

    Handing out fancy stuff doesn´t make him a trustworthy fellow.
    If you did follow the story back then, instead of running one young after the other through it, you would know why Casca isn´t king material.
     
  15. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    *Shakes head in disbelief*

    If u will not except Casca as our Lord and King ..I would simply ask that u do not come and defend the kingdom under the Royal Guard banner...Has we the defenders of this realm will always be watching over OUR own backs at OUR own people incase OUR own threaten Cascas life... never mind our foes!!!!!!!
     
  16. Flame (DrR)

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    Time to stop the bickering isn’t that one of the things that got Nathan down, (and yes I know I was as guilty as most), the other of course being Casca, but we need to stop the in house fighting and save Sosaria first, to that ends Nathan Hawke has agreed to once again wear his pink cloak.

    One of the last things he said was to keep watching for anything strange, so we can add that to the list of things to do. And of course it should go without saying, back to keeping an eye on the coucil hall in britain.
     
  17. Chiera

    Chiera Guest

    I agree that in these times of threat the people of sosaria should at least unite temporarily to deal with whatever lies ahead of us.

    But do we really need some kind of regentship for that purpose ? It wasn't British and it surely won't be Casca that united the people of sosaria. It were the virtues in the first place which served as a common ground and a common cause for the people of sosaria to defend aginst and to prevail over whatever threats and aggressions were thrown against our land and our way of living in the past. And it will be the virtues that will unite us again when the time has come. Long live the republic of Sosaria !

    That being said, I think it is a given that we will need a kind of temporary military leadership to coordinate our efforts in dealing with the current threats. The latest events though made me seriously doubt if Nathan has the personal qualities necessary for holding such a position. I mean, as unpleasant as the last gathering had been, wouldn't you expect from a military leader to remain somewhat composed in the presence of argument ? Instead he just threw away his cloak and went away. This is not really a feature of a balanced and stable person tbh. What is he going to do when the going gets really tough ? In every war there is turmoil, disorder and there might be battles lost too. And that will be when we really need someone to stand firm, someone to keep up the morale, someone who can unite !

    So I ask myself, has Nathan really the qualities needed as a military leader of Sosaria when he freaks out already in the presence of babbling arguments ?
     
  18. callum_fitzhugh

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    ~puts up a guilty hand~

    Its not bickering I guess its the constant questioning. Me and Flame went through some sutf together IC which did make sense but it looks like a lot of stuff the player are throwing around makes no sense either.

    If your going to move a person from a to b why bother if your going to kill him? Might as well kill him at location a.

    Also public meetings we all know are full of bickering and backchat - there is always a thin line between good role play and just annoying others in the crowd who want to listen or to the event person who is trying to explain.

    I kind of liken this to being a good GM of a guild.

    A good GM needs good players and vice versa - by this I mean ooc not IC.

    Nathan's style is as the unlikley leader hes not a gung ho superhero or blond haired blue-eyed boy like Jurrell was. He asked for captains and generals to step up to the plate already once or twice?

    Looks like its a case of EM trying to give responsibility to the players for some stuff as well as leading where appropriate.
     
  19. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    And that way lies paranoia and exactly the sort of mistrust the Shadowlords love to create.

    I don't think of Casca as my 'King' in any way, he's not proved himself to me or brought forward any of those who could credibly confirm or deny his story, and I'm a long way from trusting him - but to jump from that to assuming those who don't believe in him as King would be willing to kill him, or let harm come to any of the people trying to defend Sosaria? I'm not under any 'Royal Guard banner' because there is not, to me, a 'Royalty'. Jumping from that to labelling people like me a potential 'threat to the state' (especially when that 'state' doesn't even exist in any meaningful form!) is irrational.

    Try remembering who the real enemies are before branding anyone who disagrees with you as a potential traitor......

    Surely the point of the society we're intending to defend is that the parts can work together on the really big problems whilst disagreeing about other, admittedly important, things - or is it really just the case that there's are a lot of tinpot little dictators demanding theirs is the only way? And if that is truly what we have, how can those 'leaders' expect a majority to follow them anywhere - other than in their own imaginations? They sure as hell can't frighten us all into agreement - they can persuade, more effectively by example than words, or they can fail.
     
  20. Divster

    Divster Guest

    *shakes head in despair* While I admire those who may wish to uphold cetain principles I cannot agree with those who follow a cause simply beucase it appears to "unite" people. Many causes have united people and turned out to be either despicable or flawed. I am not throwing my vote either way and will follow events with wary eyes but I do not trust casca nor will I be swayed by petty rewards, my duty will be my service to sosaria and my reward will be what comes from that service, if that becomes punishment then so be it but I will not bow to that which I dop not agree with *shrugs*
     
  21. Flame (DrR)

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    In response to a few points here I would like to say that we are under threat from many forces, just to name a few the Shadow Lords, FOA, those ones working with the Shadow Lords sending the crimson dragons into Sosaria and they all are intent on taking Sosaria from us. So we have a simple choice, unit or fall to pieces and watch Sosaria devoured by them.

    I agree that Nathan Hawke is not a natural leader, and I am not at all surprised Casca choose him, as he seems to be appointing people who are inadequate into important jobs. Remember he appointed his relative, a failed scholar to Royal Librarian. So lets looks at why he might have chosen Nathan.

    1. Casca must realise that there are many that hate elves and so he had to appoint a human.
    2. Nathan has been away for a very long time, away from human contact and not up to date with what’s been going on within Sosaria, and perhaps Casca feels him easier to manipulate because of his ignorance.
    3. His being away means it cannot be easy for him to stand in front ordering people, his job was a spy and hiding in the shadows after all.
    4. He knows Nathan Hawke was a spy for the old Royal Council and may keeping him where he can an eye on him.

    That being said, Nathan has improved from his first few days, but I agree that he still has a very long way to go to be the type of Captain we are used to. So perhaps we need to adjust a little bit and help him find his feet . Lets us also use his skills to inform our Captain/Leaders and we unit as a Sosarian army to save our lands. Since Sir Clainin recognised him and confirmed him as having been working with the old Royal Council I have decided to trust him and have informed him of that. He stated that he believes in the Virtues and will do anything that needs to be done to save Sosaria. I would rather have him calling us to arms that have Casca remove him and give us yet another unknown, entrusted stranger. If however after our chat I suddenly get arrested or go missing you will know my assessment was wrong.

    As to Ambassador Casca, whether we do or don’t acknowledge him as king, or hate his pointy ears is not as important at this moment as the threats to Sosaria. The situation of Casca will be resolved in a legal and just way as fitting with the Virtues. In order to stop him from ousting Nathan Hawke from his position as hard as it may be for some of us we need to consider keeping our views quiet in his Cascas presence.

    Finally for those not used to RP and consider some to have behaved annoyingly arguing with each other during an event I ask you to consider a few points. Firstly this is a RP event and so they have been invited in character. You need to realise that we have armies in one room that are at war with each other, and they are refraining from killing each other only out of respect for the event. However they would not be in character if they just sat quietly as if they are happy neighbours. When it counts they unite for the good of Sosaria, that’s why they came.

    So in the name of the Virtues and for Sosaria I ask for us to unit against our common enemies.
     
  22. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Except, of course, there's a fairly nice paradox in there Flame - I know full well they are RPing, but if they are RPing a character who comes across as arrogant, opinionated and manipulative, then they can't be too surprised (and have no right to claim they're 'misunderstood') if people to react appropriately to that impression, now can they?

    I'll take the characters as they present themselves - and frankly mostly they're a pretty unappealing bunch, and precious few amongst them seem to be leaders in any shape or form.... which OOC is perfectly fine, people are playing the characters they have designed and acting appropriately as they see that character's personality.

    Seperately though, there's always a perfectly valid question about RP - are you playing a fixed, totally determined character, or one that can or would change through experience? The 'leaders' who remain fixed in their old in-character prejudices are not doing anything 'wrong' at all - but they won't find too many others (especially not those who are thinking about RP but not too confident to gdive in yet) to follow them if they stick in that mould.

    There are always consequences to how people act, and if the 'person' portrayed is unlikeable, no surprises if they are not liked.....
     
  23. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    It does vary...
    Sometimes, people will play a completely rigid character, and wouldn't change them for all the tea in China.
    Other times, people will play a completely fluid character, which is quite a bit harder to do, since you gain complexity over time.
    For the most part, though, there are some core principals for the character that will rarely change. Hatreds, fears, distrusts. If orcsies ate a character's shoesies, then they aren't going to loan their best shoes to an orc.

    Perhaps I interpreted it wrongly, but the OP felt like an attack on the RP interactions.
    While they may be a little out of hand at times, it didn't sit well.
     
  24. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Of course, some core and central aspects of a character will usually remain, although even then if there is no flexibility at all there's a real danger you end up playing a caricature rather than a character.

    I'd not speak for THP (I'm sure he can do that for himself just fine :) ) but I'm not sure there's an 'attack' on any of the RP folks, just one of those situations where, whether in-character or not, some people do things that just seem unhelpful or counterproductive to others.

    I have quite a few problems imagining any great state occasions where the 'head of state' (and it's not just the current Casca cycle where this has happened) turns up to be abused and insulted by a bunch of local councillors, who then start the equivalent of a food-fight amongst themselves..... but there have been a few UO occasions where that seemed to be precisely what was going on. :) We don't like the crowds at EM events spamming 'give items', but is it really so hugely different from a bunch of people saying 'me and what I think are most important, so I'm going to insult and scream until I "win"', no matter whether IC or out of it?

    The 'freedom' to speak and act allowed by the game, and the lack of consequence for those actions within the game world, means that sometimes the RP is not particularly credible, or edifying. Sure, 'in-character' there's a hell of a lot of leeway since it's your character, but sometimes it's a little too self-referential, and especially to outside observers simply bizarre or confusing.

    People are fond of citing the differences between standalone solo RPGs and MMORPGs - there's also a certain boundary between RPing to your own friends and community, and engaging the rest of the game world. That balance gets skewed very easily, and thus to the rest of the people watching, the RP element can make a very poor impression.
     
  25. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Quite frankly the OP...me!! made a small RP Post only...that for whatever reason as normal had some people jumping down my thoat...please read the opening post again and read it in a RP context as it was meant!!

    Tis treason i say..treason against the king!!! orf with there heads!!