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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kage, Feb 2, 2013.
SMH @ PUB 81.0
To be fair, interrupting animal form is a good change... and I am a professional with that template. It's a bit overpowered, but they better do it right and make it a bit hard to interrupt. Because harm spam just to interrupt you is stupid. I can see 4 mages harm spamming me now while 2 dump. Not fun. I *LIKE* to fight uneven odds. But making it impossible to fight uneven odds is no bueno. There's a few smart changes in the publish, but some of them are seriously out of left field and I wonder if they work in Washington where smoking pot is legal... that's the only explanation I can see for them...
Too soon to tell. Testing is barely begun and tweaking for feedback is pending.
It is kinda hard to judge the publish since they didn't add everything to Test. According to the producer's letter, Pub 81 will have more than just non-existant armor and weapon changes. When are the other things going to be added, such as new Tinkering items, etc. I have not seen any hide nor hair of the new Theme Pack. Maybe they hid it in a new mountain cavern or cave.....
To sooon to tell.. no offense I love you petra. But pvpers can tell just by reading the notes and having past experience of bad patches that have come to us all over the last 15 years.. yes some if these changes are fine.. a lot if them are not and will do serious damage to the pvp community in this game. People who pvp know how low the population is already for pvp this could put a nail in the coffin for the few groups that are left. They really need to l Iisten to the people on this and adjust or remove some of their ideas... who ever did come up with this obviously does not pvp or is quite horrible at it. So they are designing it their eyes and not what the game needs... I agree alot of changes to weapons are decent, puting a timer on disarm making ninjitsu disruptable which as they said up above may need to be adjusted to prevent weaken harm spamms. Yes it does have fast cast but ruins the numerous templates that people made. Maybe increase the casting speed on animal form so it can be disrupted but with a third level spell so its not a constant spam of disrupts. Make fc useless on the form or something else. The stamina ideas are awful... 10 second timer on refresh has to be cutt down... alot can happen in 3 seconds of pvp nevermind 10. The moral of this rant is they need to take their time before bringing this out and really read these threads, pms, emails etc...
Can't you still smoke bomb out? I miss teleport-hide.
I see no option for - ' I couldn't care less'
All they needed to do for throwing was dump the garg racial bonus of the free 5% overcap on HCI and then boost archery damage on commensurate bows. There was no other change needed with throwing.
My PvP experience is mostly limited to be attacked and run and/or die. So I don't care.
Yes it will effect pvp but i still think we all will adjust and make the new changes work for us some how just like we always do
Its not about adjusting its about "if" they did just push this through as its stand, its forced on us, of course they should take HUGE notice to what we say about it all and they should adjust to what we say, since we are the customers that pay to play.
yeah how about the option that perhaps you should test it some before you make any rash decisions?
No testing,just blind judgment on what is in text for TC.
The publish on TC is NOT how the weapons or armor changes will go through. The make some of the changes in Phase 1, test them for a while to see how they work, then add phase 2 to the stuff on TC, test them, and so on, and only when all the phases are tested, and tested together, do they go into a publish.
You always complain about stuff not getting tested properly, and when stuff is attempted to be tested, you scream that the test versions will destroy UO.
NOT EVERYTHING THAT GOES TO TEST MAKES IT OFF TEST - or have I been simply overlooking the proficiency system for the last 5 years?
Personally, if I was going to do something to balance PvP and PvM I'd do the following
1. IF you have a Necromancy buff (including shapechanges that are self-only, not corpse skin or Evil Omen) active
-Casting a Chivalry spell causes Direct HP damage equal to the spell base mana cost, that lowers the character's Max HP for 10 seconds by that amount
-Casting a Bushido spell causes Stamina damage (points lost, and max stamina lowered that much) equal to the spell base mana cost
-Casting a Ninjitsu spell causes Mana damage (treated as stamina damage above)
2. If a Chivalry buff is active
-Casting a Necromancy spell causes Direct HP damage as above
-Casting a Bushido spell causes Mana damage
-Casting a Ninjitsu spell causes Stamina damage
3. If a Bushido buff is active
-Casting a Necromancy spell causes Direct HP damage as above
-Casting a Chivalry spell causes Stamina damage
-Casting a Ninjitsu spell causes Mana damage
4. If a Ninjitsu buff/shapechange is active
-Casting a Necromancy spell causes Direct HP damage as above
-Casting a Chivalry spell causes Mana damage
-Casting a Bushido spell causes Stamina damage
UO's biggest problem isn't PvP balance - it's that Sampires have existed for 8 years, almost totally unchecked. One former UO chief didn't even know they EXISTED.
I remember not to count my chickens before they hatch
how about you pvpers put your heads together and actually analyse the changes together, do some actual testing and come up with a solid consensus, because just looking through the main thread there's so many contradicting views I sure wouldn't know who to listen to.
Make a logical list, with bullet points. Which changes are fine, which are not, and why not.
Real, logical, sensible feedback gets lost among the wailing, gnashing of teeth, threats to quit and personal attacks on Devs and other posters.
I remember that, I was shocked!
I don't understand what the big deal is, just adjust to the new changes.
I'm a PvPer myself, and it was about time they did this.
But, they should nerf the poison passive and butcher knife tho, and the trap box.
Well it is easy to see why EVO is all here whining. Their guild members fit into one of three categories:
1.) Mystic/Weaving/Ninja mage who relies very heavily on animal form to survive.
3.) Blitz's disarm archer that he will need to give up or seriously revamp stat allocation so he can swing his Composite at a reasonable speed.
They all run templates with enough ninja to animal form. Animal form is abused, that fix was needed too.
The gargoyle patch is overdue.
I'm not a huge fan of the refresh pot change (mainly due to PvP in champs spawn areas). We'll see how it goes. I also don't like some of the changes to weapon speeds/damage for regular bows. You take a Yumi that was 16-20 dmg at 4.5 and move it to 13-17 @ 3.25? The damage was fine before, just needed to be moved to a 4.0 speed weapon.
Reserving judgement until its finalized/fully tested but so far it seems fine. Sure you have to relearn a few things, might have to redo a suit or two but thats good. So far it just seems that select people will hate any changes that make them have to adapt/relearn. The stamina and mana things with armor seem confusing at first but if it was easy then we'd just have the same fleet of pvpers with 2-3 different templates doing the same thing over and over until they bore each other into infinity.
True, skilled pvpers will adapt and ultimately find the way to get the most out of the changes, casual self-proclaimed pvp legends will most likely complain until its either altered again or restored to the old ways.
All of us just need to spend whatever time we can testing our playstyles with these changes before we all judge them. That means spending more than one nite on TC standing around Yew gate. Also since not all players read stratics or any forums, we need to try to drag friends and guildmates off prodo shards to help get mass testing done.
You know as mad as I have been about some of these changes I do agree that it is too early to tell if this publish will out right ruin pvp. I think it will certainly hurt though.
We fight outnumbered most of the time which is why we have ninja. If everyone had your playstyle ie only logging in when Pug is online with a zerg, how many fights would there be? Imagine if you tried to fight even numbers for once or outnumbered.... yea I can't imagine it for you either.
I have no idea why you're commenting on how this will affect pvp considering you're a pvmer.
It looks like it's about 2-1 in favor of NOT making these changes, so what reason do the devs have to ever make this live?
Your main concern was whether a stratics mod was paying attention to you?
Of course we pay attention.
Whooah, holy troll batman! EVO always on your mind, we're in your brain! OOH, YOUR BRAIN IS OVERRUN BY EVO! FYI:::Blitz is not, has not ever been "EVO" and hasn't been with the group for a long while now. So, good job on that budddddddddddddy.
Secondly, if you think in anyway that I feel nerfed on my "abused" animal form template, you're not too bright. I also enjoy the fact that you knock any pvper that has ninjitsu on their template rofl. Dismounts are apart of the game, having a way to get out of it should also be apart of the game. People make their templates stretched out and weak in certain areas to compensate this-By no means do I agree or disagree with the change to animal form, because I do not feel even being weaken/feeble spammed that they'll be able to fully disrupt you and IF that were the case, we already know how to avoid that fail and still get into animal form. =)
If I had some troll-be-gone spray, you would be TERMINATED! Btw, Kage, I'm not voting in your stupid poll, it's biased! =D
Let us stay focused on topic.
Is Basara some kind of secret dev we don't know about? lol
Get rid of those ninja crutches it's time to walk!
*runs screaming through the thread* AHHHHHH! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!
Can I ask how extensively you've tested this new publish on TC? Or are you just presuming that you can read the patch notes and understand the dynamics of everything involved without taking the opportunity to see if the patch actually meets your expectations.
And if you have tested, have you provided constructive feedback, or are you just running around with your hair on fire screaming for water?
I am unamused with the couple of cheerleaders looking at the turd sandwich we've been served, going "Maybe it tastes better than it looks." I am a strictly PVM carebear who already wears plate and who personally gets nothing but buffs from these changes and even I hate them.
Yep. Again, even in all of the discussion, I don't see anything in this round of proposed changes that was asked for by the playerbase. Well, I guess I take that back, i suppose if this was a corny TV show about a Genie in a bottle, and a wish was made, and the Genie took liberties with the wish and made the wish "technically" true with a WHOLE slew of unintended consequences that came along with it... that would be kinda like what this proposal would look like. (oh, and I should clarify - I am a PVM'er who pretty much never PVP's0
I wish I was a dev.... I just got to be lucky enough to attend both the High Seas (Where Calvin let slip he had never heard of Sampires) and 15th anniversary events.
That said, I do moderate the crafter forum here, and I do have a slightly better chance of bringing something to the attention of the devs (though no where NEAR what many forum users think we have), in that I can ask the "Ask the Devs" mods to expedite moderating a question so that they might see it a day sooner than if I had to wait, as typically anything I'm asking is related to my forums and has already gone through fact-checking to see if it can be answered without the devs getting involved. That's hardly a major advantage.
Remember, folks, that your forum mods (especially the profession forum ones) can be gatekeepers to filter stuff through, and collate your concerns to get them in a form more likely to bridge the gap with the devs. The Devs are more likely to pay attention to an annotated list of questions from, say, the Warrior forum mods, than 20 questions (2/3 of them variations of the same 2-3 questions) from 20 different users, with terminology that might be unfamiliar to them (or written with such bad grammar or lack of English skills) to the point they don't understand a simple question. I've seen several instances of these over the years.
Cal not knowing about Sampires was not a big deal in my opinion. The largest nerf to Samps came before his time, and was pushed strongly by a vocal stratics poster who gained attention by arguing with and agreeing with several of his own alt accounts in multiple threads (hi Rabbit, Restroom, Undies, Beerman, Budman etc.)...
This Patch is Really Really Bad. The only good things in here are garg hci down to 45%...the wep speed changes i think are dumb why have 1.25 if its not possible to get that if any thing lower the damage a bit on comp bows / soul glaives. As ninja form interrupting goes i dont have a problem with it just for dexers even tho i play a mage geting dismounted and having your pet poisoned with no way to cure it your dead. With 0/0 casting on a dexer no way your going to be to ninja. I think they should just inscrease the time you can ninja from when your dismounted making it not as "op"..And as far as the stam loss thing goes with armor they need to scrap that whole thing its so bad...instead of adding dumb **** that 90% of pvpers will hate why not add more ways to pvp / inscrease faction pvp on a dieing game.
It would be a really good idea if people could leave personalities aside and concentrate on informed, constructive feedback. Turning every thread into slanging match between posters is not in the least helpful. I really, really don't want to spend my entire day removing posts that do nothing other than attack other posters or the devs on a personal level.
It is possible to explain what the problems are, ask for adjustments and suggest changes without calling anyone nasty names.
Words like 'too severe' are a lot more informative than 'dumb' and a lot more likely to achieve the desired result.
Leave out the insults and explain the problems clearly.
Is this enough testing for you?
I copied 1 of my 5 warriors over to TC with thier gear. Notice that I have included my home shard with this test to see the difference.
Str 150 Hit Points 138
Dex 135 Stamina 136
Int 41 Mana 41
Shame (Baja Shard) 2 Mud Pies My Hit Points never dropped below 120 and I lost 0 (ZERO) Stamina b4 both were dead. No specials/spells or aids used.
Shame (TC1) 2 Mud Pies My Hit points never dropped below 125 and I have to leave because my Stamina dropped to 30. No specials/spells or aids used.
New Haven (Baja) 1 (ONE) Spellbinder casting and I took 0 (ZERO) Stamina Damage.
New Haven (TC1) 1 (ONE) Spellbinder casting and I was taking 30-40 Stamina Damage every time.
I do not have to test this 100 times to understand that UO has just destroyed all my warriors. It took me all of 5 min. to do this and know for a fact that no other testing was required to come to this understanding. I would hate to think how this even affects PvP.
HAVE YOU EVEN BOTHERED TO GET ON TC AND DO A LITTLE TESTING YOURSELF?
I've tested TC and posted my results. I have done so on a PvM sampire, it sucked. I did it on a PvP garg, it sucked. I'd ask everyone else to do so also.
You can copy all your macro's over if you open the file in the documents folder so as to not waste time. Just give it tem mins or so to at least form some thought, I played for about 1.5 hours on test.
Tested and approved! Gold seems like it's not going to be so easy to farm now. 1 more step towards a better economy.
Alls I can say about this post.
If you're running your warrior in his current armor set, and that armor set is not made of metal, don't you think it's important to try him out with a variety of armors to see how the various armors affect this situation?
The whole stamina loss/armor mechanic is, IMO, designed to give a valid choice between various armors.
Your warrior in his current armor set may not be as useful as he was, but what if he wore different armor?
No, because if people have to replace entire suits then it's a fail and a lot of people will probably just quit. This is the dev team that murdered Factions turning their hand on the rest of the game.
Scuttlebutt is that Goodmann is a goldseller looking forward to everyone having to buy new suits/materials at once. Ignore him.
Well, I mean, honestly, that would be a silly reason to quit the game. This revamp has long been asked for and long been coming. If everyone was expecting an armor revamp without any changes to gameplay, then perhaps they didn't understand what a revamp was. Personally, I'm holding off making any new armor for certain character types until I know more about what's coming down the pipe.
Truthfully, if people are really quitting over this, and not just posturing that they are going to quit if this happens!, well, then, the state of the playerbase is in a sad, sad shape.
I remade suits after the faction change and then I remade them again to take larger advantage of the reforging since no information was released from the team. I still have 15+ chars that I spent RL money on buying tokens to off shard that the faction nerf that I don't use because of the silver farming and points needed to keep them going every month. I, personally, can think of a large amount of players that left after the nerf and I'm sure others can think of a larger circle.
This change will not make people want to play the game or come back. The learning curve is absurd as is and changes like this make it all the worse.
The new system is not making the learning curve worse; it is adding a new dynamic. I totally agree with you in spirit that the game needs to have tutorial systems that teach new players how to advance through the learing curve, but this isn't going to be a make or break for existing players by itself.
As for the faction changes, yes, I can see how those changes would make or break faction play, and truthfully, I think most of those changes were ill-informed and ill-conceived... they probably would have been better off leaving the system as it was in all honesty.
But as for armor changes, truthfully, they need to be more dynamic than they are, because right now there's not a lot of variance in the armor system.
It might not make the curve worse but it just adds another level.
Faction change was brutal, it almost ended PvP dead in it's tracks and certainly has ended cross sharding.
Yes armor does need something to make it my dynamic but tossing out all the current suits plus ever item that comes with mage armor is far from the right path. There have been somethings that have come up as ideas, some as simple as higher imbuing points/slots. I'm not sure what the correct answer is but the current team idea doesn't meet the test IMO.
This is the reason they allow you to copy your char over to TC, so you can see how the changes affect your char. So now people are just suppose to throw away all thier gear and start over? NO TY
This revamp was NEVER asked for. What was asked for was that other armor types be given a use. That does not mean you destroy everybodys gear in order to do this. They didn't add anything to plate they just made other stuff less affective, yea that's a real good way to make plate usefull. NOT! As for people quiting UO, well when you throw away years and years of work with one PUB, that nobody asked for, then what do you expect. Yes the playerbase is in a sad, sad shape because we have lost so many players in the past for one reason or another, do we really need to piss off another group of players. This one PUB affects EVERY PvP and PvM warrior, that is a large groupe of players. This PUB IS NOT a tweek or an enhancement it is a throw out everything and start over PUB. NO TY UO is played for fun, when UO is no longer fun than it is time to rethink UO. Am I saying I am quitting, NO. But if this PUB goes to prodo shards and I have to redo 6 Warrior suits then it will be time for me to rethink UO.
It is NOT a throw out everything and start over. For crying out loud, if something needs to be adjusted, it can be adjusted, but don't just whine endlessly because it's something new to the game. Yes, it does follow that SOME people are going to have to change their armor for a greater benefit to themselves.
I understand WHY they allow you to copy something over to TC... what I don't think you're following is that with a change such as this, yes, there WILL be some changes.
Oy. Yes, this gives some of the armors a use. They DID add something to plate. Plate actually, by my reading, stops the stamina loss. Have you tried wearing plate? Or are you just going off of what you're currently wearing.
I'm so tired of watching people whine about change every time it happens. Stagnation is NOT good for the game. Nor is "wha wha wha I'm going to quit" any sort of constructive feedback. "I don't want to have to redo my armorz!" Oh for crying out loud. Seriously? So because people don't want any sort of change, but are always asking for change, let's just do nothing and leave it the way it is?
Try actually testing something instead of whining about how your template is going to change. Obviously something was going to change. I mean, what did you expect? They'd suddenly just give everything the same resist base and make everything meddable so the only choice in armor was cosmetic? I for one applaud making play a little more different based on what someone is wearing. Clearly you'd rather just keep your pretty little suits and not have to do anything. Maybe it is time for you to reconsider UO. Got me.
But it doesn't really throw out all of the current suits. Casters may want to remain in leather. But yes, it might give hybrids a reason to select something midline. And maybe that's part of the solution is to change from meddable/non-meddable to a system where meddable items work in percentages like the no-stam does, so you can have something that is 100% meddable all the way to 0% meddable, and the obverse, 100% stam-protect to 0% stam-protect, and the ranges in between allow for some combination thereof.
Then a pure warrior would care more about stamina than meditation, and a pure mage more about meditation than stam...
Of course, this might also need something changed for special moves too, I don't know. But rather than simply take a straight-up "This is worthless!" stance, perhaps we should provide alternative suggestions and feedback to help make this a decent publish.
I personally would never walk into this expecting nothing to change. What I do expect is a long-term solution that will probably shake us up in the immediate future, but which will provide more dynamic gameplay for the future. The "I quit" if this goes live type stuff now surfacing isn't exactly useful.
Whine are you friggin nuts, have you even bothered reading results, have you even taken your Warrior with thier current gear and tested this? WOW Just friggin WOW? There are no tweeks/adjustments to this, it is a throw away and start over PUB. And please show me where I threatened to quit over this. I think it is time to take your POM POMs and go cheerlead somewhere else. What you and Goodman working together to get this done so you can make loads of gold and $$$ replacing suits.