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Punkbuster Yes or No?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by HD2300, Feb 6, 2009.

?

Do you want Punkbuster in UO?

  1. Yes

    112 vote(s)
    49.8%
  2. No

    113 vote(s)
    50.2%
  1. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    Simple question Punkbuster Yes or No?

    In my opinion more people would come back than leave, and I believe WAR has Punkbuster integrated so there is definitely expertise to do it within Mythic.
     
  2. Never!

    Please, really...no!
     
  3. Littleblue

    Littleblue Seasoned Veteran
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    I'd rather see some other things happen first.

    Insanely hard systems and mini-games that a casual/average player could work for years, and never get any kind of decent reward, need to be revisited. Casual and even hardcore players give up on enjoying those aspects of the game when they realize that it's virtually impossible to receive the reward through regular gameplay.

    Skills that are extremely tedious, boring, or very slow to gain need to be looked at, too. There is nothing worse than trying to immerse yourself in your character's development when the only way to progress your abilities is some mind-numbing, repetetive task that does nothing to enhance your experience and might not even fit with the environment very well. Skills that could be gained from both active training and passive experience could help bring back more adventuring and fun at all levels. Of course, there will always be some skills that just aren't very interesting to master, at least in the way of adventuring. Why not add in some Quests of appropriate difficulty as an additional avenue of Skill Gain? It would certainly add some variety, and might even help break those frustrating "walls" we have all hit at one time or another.

    Community Collections... I see lots of requests to improve these. Expand the items that are accepted, revisit point values and reward costs to see if these are balanced when compared to the amount of work/time involved. I think we all would mind those 'useless' loot items much less if they were no longer 'useless'! Make them worth points towards a Community Collection or Spring Cleaning type of Event, and have these things active permanently. Switch up the rewards perodically if need be, but make sure players have a reasonable amount of time to get them first. Let players know well in advance if rewards are due to be cycled out soon.

    I brought these points up specifically for a reason. I would love to see Mythic get a handle on cheating - have it be easily detectable, quickly identified, and consistently punished - but at the same time, I would also love to see players have fewer reasons to even think about cheating or simply buying their way through the game. Making character development and skill gain fun again would go along way towards that...why beat a golem while unattended when you could go out and *play the game* with others, having fun and making friends along the way. Bring back adventure, excitement, and creativity to our character's journies to Grandmaster and beyond, regardless of playstyle.

    Making collection rewards and other systems' rewards more attainable not only discourages UMing and Scripting, but also Duping of the more desirable rewards. Not to mention it could make all loot worth *something*, and even renew interest in once-popular skills like Fishing and Treasure Hunting. All players could participate, regardless of skill, by gathering common things while playing the game.

    Players cheat because there appears to be little risk involved, and high reward...in some cases, rewards that are almost unattainable any other way.
     
  4. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Easy to get around it. Waste of resources like spending billions on trying to stop file sharing.
     
  5. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    I am not 100 percent clear on what PunkBuster is or what it does all i remember hearing is that it is aimed to stop cheating if i remember correctly if so and if it stops some cheating, makes it harder to cheat, detects illegal 3rd party programs and stops them then i am all for it.
     
  6. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    It checks youre system for predefined programs and wont allow the game to run untill the system is cleared of them. The firt thing that will happen is that the 3rd party programs will be changed to not be able to be detected to punkbuster by all the people that will have the source code. So instead of just 2 or 3 programs to look after it will be hundreads and hundreads of them each different for each user. And because the most popular of these programs do not interact directly with the uo client like if you had a program that will give you immortality or have you able to fly then the method will be useless.
    Not to mention you can modify and create those scripts to run in a visual basic environment if you like. Theres also ways to make it undetectable in youre system even by a program scanning youre whole system every moment.
    It's really pretty useless for UO.
     
  7. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
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    Not this BS again... 2 yrs ago we went over this to no end on the Negative Impact it will cause (not to mention personal information that it IS able to Scan & obtain & False Readings) They (EA) introduce Punkbuster & you will see UO out in the matter of weeks, not because of finding cheat programs, but because people do not want their computers scanned top to bottom (Going through private personal Info Etc) being looked at.

    NO!
     
  8. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    thanks for the info it is a shame that these programmers make these darn cheat programs in the first place i wish that Ea could take legal action against them and the sites that they run and shut them down for good. still i don't think punkbuster would hurt any it can stop some of these illegal programs i am sure as long as punkbuster keeps getting updated.
     
  9. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I've had Punkbuster installed forever from modern games that just so happen to be almost entirely cheat-free, and I've never had any problems with it. So yes, it should be implemented.
     
  10. Chiera

    Chiera Guest

    Never ! I'd uninstall any programm immediately which compromises my system integrity and privacy. If that means no more UO so be it then.
     
  11. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    No,nada, never.
     
  12. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I've heard good and bad stuff about it. I'm not really sure whether or not they should have it. But I have to admit, so far this is the most balanced poll I've ever seen, lol.
     
  13. AdamD

    AdamD Guest

    There were apparently "legal" issues and negotiations reached a deadlock.
    I doubt they'd look into it again
     
  14. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    eh, punk buster kicks me from CoD for no reason sometimes. Would really suck if that happened in UO. Not to mention UO's lag. how many times on another game have you seen someone PB kicked for packet loss.

    there are other options.
     
  15. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    I'll give you a big NO also.

    EA would waste as many resources trying to integrate Punkbuster as they would trying to implement AND enforce their own fixes.

    Speedhacks? Hello... server side cap anyone? Anyone that trusts what comes from a client is a fool.:scholar:

    Skill gain macroing? Make it so one doesn't have to spend weeks upon weeks to develop a skill to the right level.

    Community collections. Scripting will happen here no matter what they do. However, it is kind of obvious when a guy is turning in a full pack of stuff in 30 seconds *rolleyes* I've got my UO Assist macro setup to turn stuff in and at best, I can get things turned in one piece every second. But I've seen a guy turn in 2-3 times as fast:spider: Using my rate, I can get a set of mace and shields in about 90k seconds or 1500 minutes or roughly 25 hours of solid play(some rounding in my numbers). That would be close to a month for a casual player:scholar:

    "Medic" scripts... I've heard more bad than good about these. They screw up timing, go off when not needed, etc *shrugs*

    "Ghost" cams for champs. I would argue a majority of these are NOT scripted. I'd bet maybe of all the shards MAYBE three of them are scripted. I hate to say it but most shards that are have the champs controlled are by LARGE guilds. With a large guild, guess what? LOTS of people can log in and check spawns at a rate that is faster than a person can do them. Add in the fact that these large guilds will often pop EVERY spawn and work off the rats and often the other easier spawns makes checking even easier:spider: A single person can check all the spawns on their own in roughly 15-20 minutes.

    As for the rest of the exploits, that is purely on EA to get off their duff and fix them. *rolleyes*
     
  16. T'Challa

    T'Challa Certifiable
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    [cough] Germany [/cough]
     
  17. ake

    ake Adventurer
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    qft
     
  18. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest

    i agree , NO
    it will most definitly not bring people back to UO, it will in fact drive even more away.
    and it won't work, at least not for the people that have 1/8th a brain to work around it.
     
  19. BartofCats

    BartofCats Guest

    you know what?? it doesnt have to be punkbuster itself. It could be something else. The point being is that the players want the cheating to stop. Punkbuster or something like it would be a good start. is it 100% no. but its a step in the right direction.
     
  20. You do know Punkbuster wouldnt make a difference at the abuse level right?


    Punkbuster is not a cure all.

    Dont think for a minute it stops scripting. Do you even or we even know what it would really stop? No.


    Think about this... why did the stop punkbusters implementation?

    Because it didnt work when they tested it. BINGO.
     
  21. To all those voting no: a question.

    If not having PB meant that UO would be shut down, would you still stick to your NO vote? Regardless of faults, PB has a shot at lowering the cheat levels ... if not having it meant UO went buh-bye, would you still think NO was the right answer?

    Curious ... and I have mixed feelings on the issue.
     
  22. Yes, I would.

    More to the point - UO would end for me anyway, if they implemented Punkbuster. I would leave and not return.

    I refuse to allow anti-privacy third-party programs access to MY information, just because someone else is screwing up. No thanks!
     
  23. Splup

    Splup Guest

    They stopped because they noticed that so many were cheating, so they didn't want to lose players.
     
  24. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    Ea should go to cheating sites and post some cheats that are built in to game that will automatically ban and delete the cheating accounts.
     
  25. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    I have to agree with this point, im curious from someone more computer literate than me, would it not be possible to set up a server side "block" or firewall type thing that stops these programmes?

    That way no one would have there privacy hindered and the programmes themselves would be rendered useless?
     

  26. The only problem is it wont affect UO. Its like saying if they had to raise the fee to $15 a month or UO would go away would you do it.

    Its not happening so why consider it.

    No one can tell you what that actually shot of PB is. Tell me that and I might consider it.
     
  27. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    I would still say no way and I'd drop UO like a bad habit.

    Part of this is over the privacy issue mentioned.

    Part of this would be even more lack of confidence in the Dev team. They can't fix UO on their own so they have to outsource "cheat" fixes... now I'm supposed to trust them to design and implement anything else? No way.:spider:
     
  28. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    NO.
     
  29. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    SOOOO......... seems like nothing has changed in 2 years. There might be even more against Punkbuster now.
     
  30. Millie

    Millie Guest

    I honestly say No. Lag issues are already bad in uo and adding something running in the back ground would make it unplayable for some IMO. There has to be other ways to stop cheating then using up more resources.
     
  31. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    No. If they are going to spend resources, I would prefer to see something done in house. *nods*
     
  32. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    PunkBuster in UO means no UO for me.
    I'd be ok with more client-side checks (though personally I think they're a waste of time - the client is in the hands of the enemy, and it is a question of when somebody will get around the checks, not if), but I'm not ok with the PB ToS (especially when the company defends their overly broad ToS by effectively saying that they would be ok with violating their privacy statement in the future if it meant a chance for better cheat detection).
     
  33. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    With all the hacked accounts, scams, e-fraud as of late... allow something to access my files, no thank you.

    I'd rather not play than have something monitoring my computer. Who knows who would have access to that info.
     
  34. I play other games that use PunkBuster, like Battlefield 1942, Battlefield 2, etc...and I have never had any problems due to it.

    In fact, I don't even notice it is running...so I don't understand all the alarmist reactions to it...unless of course you are running something you shouldn't be running while you are playing UO. Then I understand it perfectly.

    If PB will stop scripters and cheaters, then I am 100% for it.

    But... just like someone else above mentioned, the way PB works is that it scans your running apps and processes for certain items (exact same way an anti-virus program works by the way...and no one is railing against them). All the 3rd party app creators have to do is change the name of the app or the processes it runs just after a PB update...so PB would only be effective for like a day after it updates (just like anti-virus software). The end effect would be an extra application running on your system that you wouldn't even notice, except when it updates...and a minor inconvenience to cheaters.

    It wouldn't stop the cheating.



    So I have to say No, just because I think EA could put the time and resources into something else...like a new client that doesn't look like a 4th grade art class made it.
     
  35. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I'd rather not run the risk of a video game company being able to scan my system. Who knows what kind of people work there.

    Sure it runs just like an anti-virus, I trust them more though =)
     
  36. You shouldn't.
     
  37. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    I don't care what it is or what it's called, but something needs to be done about all the cheaters that infest this game.

    Almost every aspect of UO has been abused so badly that most honest players have given up on trying to compete with the cheaters.

    UO is a good game, but it's starting to look like the only people left playing are speedhacks and scripters. Very few honest people left. So sad.
     
  38. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
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    Yes I would. If Punk Buster is added I will shut down my 5 Accounts immediately. I am not going out & purchasing a separate computer just to play UO on (I have done enough already over the yrs). I play UO from work, I use my Ofc machine, it has all my business info & some client info on it. At home I have a dupe of my ofc computer, it's on my old ofc machine, that I played & still do Play UO on when I am home. IF PB goes in, that wil be the last day UO is played & everything I have accumulated over the past 107 mos will be tossed into the trash can. I will not compromise my personal information I have on my computer to a program that is as intrusive as PB is. They can say all they want, we won't look at, we won't take any personal information... We all know thats bunk. If your scanning my personal info something HAS to be looking & taking note as to what it is. They (PB/EA) said before computer info is relayed to PB so if there happens to be a dirty pot (Employee) in the kitchen some place (PB) your info can be compromised
    That and the many False reading it can generate to close a UO client (packet loss, opening other programs Ie Internet Explorer, Billing programs, Chat's, you name it) & say they are 3rd party cheat programs I don't have faith in it.
    I not going to compromise my Personal Data to a basically "Spyware type" program.
     
  39. GhostGL

    GhostGL Guest

    Why single out the punks?
     
  40. Laina

    Laina Sage
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    Definitely no - the privacy issues for me are huge given that I often work from home and there is way too much personal information for my clients stored on my computer. I could not risk a 3rd party program scanning my computer.

    Also, the cheating issues do not sound like they can be fixed by PB. From what was stated above, it sounds like the illegal programs could get around it in a day and thereby wasting all the time and effort it took to implement. I think that time and effort would be better spent fixing the gain systems, bods, community collections, etc. The way the system works now, it encourages cheating - i.e. 50,000+ clicks to take a skill from 100-120? Somehow there has to be a balance from making a skill too easy so that we are all legendary players in a day and making a skill too hard that people cheat to get it and they are all legendary players in a day anyway.
     
  41. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I am a little curious as to how many of you who have voted no run the type of programs that would be detected by Punkbuster. It is kinda interesting how a large number of the playerbase votes no, and a good number of the playerbase uses these types of programs.
     
  42. More to the point:

    Don't any of you guys play anything except UO??

    PB is standard for many online games.
     
  43. ElvishArcher

    ElvishArcher Guest

    No is how I voted. Reason being there are a lot of other games I too have played that think PunkBuster is the "end all" to cheaters. Wrong! Still have cheating even with the PB set up and running. Waste of the money it would cost to integrate it. Not to mention I have also heard about the possibility of having your entire HardDrive exposed to some 3rd Party Company. My main concern here though is that its not cheap to have integrated and would do almost nothing to curtail cheaters and their programs.
     
  44. Well, that was my reason as well. I am not as concerned about the Black Helicopters and whatnot, but I know from playing other games, PB doesn't stop the cheating. It might curb it a little, but not for long.
     
  45. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I suspect some of the no's are simply fear of unknown.

    You have people who complain so much about it that a lot of people will believe everything people say. Not to forget that a lot of people tend to exaggerate the problems. People always exaggerate when they complain. I suspect that PB really isn't that bad at all and whatever problems people have with it can easily be avoided.
     
  46. Sunrise

    Sunrise Guest

    A little Way to late....
     
  47. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    I really don't get what people have against PunkBuster. Oh no! It might scan your collection of 1970's albino midget toe fetish porn! We can't have that now! Lol.

    What would help more though is probably active, competent GMs that can tell the difference from what's legal and what's not, and will patrol the "hotspots" and liberally apply the banhammer.

    Doesn't matter much anyways. Darkfall is nigh! (Feb 25, 2009).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gY7Uv063o4

    Reminds me a bit of the oldschool UO days. That Friendly Fire is hilarious. Looting corpses with actual loot on them is just plain beautiful.
     
  48. They said that last month too...


    Also...I wonder if the UI gumps in Darkfall are going to flash like that in the final release. If so, screw that...I don't need the seizures.
     
  49. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    There's a principle here: my computer is my computer.

    Goodness knows I have little to hide, it's just an ideological principle that my computer should be on my side - it shouldn't be monitoring me for someone else. I'm a strong believer that these issues need to be solved on the server side - that the protocols should be designed with the assumption that sooner or later someone is going to crack the client.

    That said, anything you install could go evil on you the next time it patches - there could be monitoring software in the client already for all I know, or something from an old game I missed when uninstalling. Whether or not I care about Punkbusterish programs ebbs like the tides.
     
  50. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Nope, they don't flash like that in game. That's just some wierd **** his recording does.