1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

PvM Damage Absorption for non-meddable armor

Discussion in 'UHall' started by GalenKnighthawke, Dec 1, 2008.

  1. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    I did not invent this idea. Others have proposed it for awhile now.

    However, I don't recall there being a thread devoted to it, wherein EA could see us specifically discussing the disadvantages and advantages of this idea.

    I don't want to make it too specific...I've noticed that proposals that are too specific, the team tends to disregard because if they take it verbatim there will be complaints that they are stealing ideas.

    At any rate,.....I like the idea of there being some kind of an entire suit of non-meddable armor having some kind of PvM damage absorbing property, similar to that of swamp dragon barding as described here:

    http://www.uoherald.com/fof/index.php?fofId=124

    (Many thanks to the person who gave me that link, btw.)

    I'd think that the armor damage absorption should either not stack with the barding absorption, or at least they should stack only to the same % of damage absorbed as afforded by GM barding.

    Why an entire suit? Because it just seems easier than adding up the absorption piece by piece. Also, the most commonly used piece of non-meddable, the Jackal's Collar, already has enough advantages on its own.

    What do I mean by an entire suit? Head, chest, neck, legs, arms, hands slots. (You are not obligated to find non-meddable boots.)

    Why not specifically for plate? Because different properties for plate and other non-meddable armors may have made sense way back when there were different dexterity penalties. But now, the distinctions consist almost solely of strength requirements and cosmetic differences.

    Would an item with mage armor count as non-meddalbe? Hell no. It's meddable, by definition. Also if we counted mage armor you could "double dip" and get both Meditation and damage absorption.

    Why not effect PvP too? Do I really have to answer this one?

    Advantages
    -Get people wearing non-meddable armors again, other than the Virtue Suit and the Darkwood Suit (and even that, I've seen that one with Mage Armor more and more often).

    -Would only effect PvP indirectly (make it slightly harder to obtain the help of spawn in killing someone...But I don't think we'll see anyone in Fel wearing non-meddable armors just for this, please note that you haven't seen swamp dragons in Felucca for a long time, at least not in any significant numbers).

    -We might see a Knight's Armor set in actual use at some point in our lifetimes.

    Disadvantages
    Am I crazy for not seeing any significant disadvantages of this at the moment?

    Someone will notice at least one, I'm sure.

    -Galen's player
     
  2. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    I had posted an idea like this in the ideas den on the old forums. Right now, the medable/non-medable association seems like a switch, either off or on. If you are wearingl medable armor and one non-medable piece, then you are not able to med. In thisuggestion then you would neither be able to med nor receive the dmg reduction, bonus from non-medability. With the functionality of med/non-med switch, it seems like any time you can't med, you should be able to receive the non-med bonus(dmg reduction in this case).
     
  3. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    It would be nice to see armors used how they were used before...

    Platemail you should be able to absorb a blow a lot more than you would a suit of leather.

    Are you suggesting making it a armor set? Or mixing and matching different pieces of plate together?

    I'd prefer to mix and match as you could get the mods you desired instead of something mediocre...

    Yeah you could absorb more PvM damage, but are you going to benefit from any of the mods on the complete suit in order for it to be useful at all?
     
  4. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    31
    i think something needs to change.. right now there is no reason to make or use studded, chain, ring or plate armor..
    unless its the samurai armor with mage armor property default on exceptional.
    thats mostly because they are using a val hammer witch gives one more mod then a barbed kit?
     
  5. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I've noticed on test I make far more better armor with a val hammer than I do with a barbed kit.

    Not just mods on the piece, but intensities of resists as well.

    I've made numerous samurai pieces using val hammer with 80+ resists and good mods and haven't made but a very small number of good/mediocre items with a barbed kit.

    It'd be nice to see platemail used. I prefer the looks of plate over any other armor in game right now.
     
  6. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good idea, I still ride my swampy on my sampire when I need to solo some bosses. I don't think this would change anything as swampy with barding already effectively taking away 20% dmg already. But if these stacked then I would pwn all those bosses I'm already pwning on hourly basis even easier on my sampire.

    Id say make each piece to reduce .5% pvp damage to make it worthwhile.
     
  7. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    All soloing aside, I think it'd be a good idea since there isn't really a true tank... most any other game you've got a tank class that wears beefy armor that helps them take damage... it'd be nice to see that in UO as well.

    Add some bonus to wearing heavier armor as opposed to the lighter/weaker leather/studded etc...

    And it would be cool to see it take away a slight % of PvP dmg as well.

    There are side effects to wearing non-medable with mana regen too so I think it'd balance itself...
     
  8. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    9
    What about linking the resistance to equipment damage between meddable/non-meddable? With imbuing, it will become more important to gauge the rate at which armor gets battered up.

    Damage-absorbing armor I think should be linked to your ability to ride mounts while wearing it - I think tanking should come at a movement cost. (at the moment, there's no reason other than stealth to not ride a mount ... I have this sudden urge to see people on foot a little more often)
     
  9. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I'd be fine with slowing movement down while wearing full plate to get a PvM dmg absorption bonus. Kinda like being in reaper form... and if you're in full plate you should move slower since it's more heavy.

    It would also be nice to have another mount other than the swamp dragon to use for PvM dmg absorbing. Like an armored horse, or a ridgeback...
     
  10. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    I am suggesting that you can mix and match kinds of armor all you want; but you get a damage absorption bonus if all of your pieces (head, neck, arms, chest, legs, hands) are non-meddable.

    Honestly I'd worry a bit about any system having a similar effect that was more complex.

    It also isn't necessarily more "realistic" to have plate armor block more. Your plate wouldn't do you as much good against, say, a battle axe or a mace as it would against a sword. With the battle axe or the mace I'd rather have the leather, so I could get out of the way quicker and hopefully only take a nick.

    Remember that what goes on in combat isn't necessarily just 2 big guys standing toe to doe and slugging it out. I'd expect a fair amount of bobbing, weaving, slipping, etc. to be going on.

    That's PvP. PvM, though is a little more about being a "tank." Because monsters are slower than people are, and sometimes but not always dumber.

    Thus affording us a fictional reason for the PvM damage absorption. The Orc Brute, or the Impaler, isn't going to always think to go for that small weak point in your armor. The person is. Thus you'd almost rather have the lighter armor that can enable you to twist slightly, to greater position your armor between your heart and that kryss. Or that lightning bolt.

    -Galen's player
     
  11. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    We used to have a dexterity penalty, but the game was way different back then.

    Right now, I would argue that anything other than a straight "one is meddable, but the other has the damage absorption" system would be too complex in a game that's already pretty complex.

    -Galen's player
     
  12. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I remember the dex penalty. I always ran a light archer suit on my townie.

    I wonder if they could make it like armor sets, where once it's all put on (non-medable items) that your suit would make those sparklies and give you the final result of having PvM dmg absorption.

    Hopefully the Devs take a look at this. I don't wanna hear people complaining about suggesting something like this over fixing other parts of the game...I think this would help people want to play a tank character having that benefit.

    I think this would help those people who aren't comfortable playing a sampire, have a viable tank in PvM and actually make using a shield and parry, something useful again.

    I don't know how hard it would be to do... but if they can make something you're riding take 20% of the damage from you in PvM... why not allow armor you actually wear do the same?
     
  13. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I think it's a great idea.

    Aside from dragonscale armor, pretty much all non-meddable armor has roughly the same total resists as meddable stuff, which is definitely a flaw.
     
  14. TVC15

    TVC15 Guest

    I know that I have been away from UO for a long time, but I cannot believe that they removed the dex penalty from heavier armors and removed the extra protection that plate should provide. What was the logic behind this?
     
  15. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    That was done with the Age of Shadows expansion. A long time ago.

    The logic? Basically I think it was that the way resisting damage was changing so much. Armor used to resist physical attacks, and magical attacks with the spell resist skill.

    Since Age of Shadows, armor resists all damage, regardless of source. And while plate might block a sword better than barbed leather, it wouldn't necessarily block, say, lightning better.

    Also, let's not forget the introduction of the "new leathers." After those came out, I very much forgot about any other kind of armor. Amazing protection, no dex penalty And that was long before Age of Shadows. That was what, like Publish 16 or so? Around the same time as Power Scrolls? Or before then even?

    What happened at first, for the first several months after Age of Shadows, was that warriors tended to favor heavier armor, still. No dex penalty now, and it afforded higher physical resist.

    However, over time what happened was the following.

    1. More and more good metal armor with the "mage armor" property became available. ("Mage armor" makes metal or studded armor meddable.)

    2. We started to realize just how much even we warriors were going to be dependent upon mana.

    3. Tailors did their jobs really well, and kept pounding out runic leather armor until finally meddable pieces that had resists equal to the metal or studded armor became the norm.

    There is one piece of non-meddable armor still in wide use: The Jakacl's Collar. Some people still find the Holy Knight's Breastplate to be of use. I've never seen the Knight's Armor Set being actually used as anything other than deco. Not once.

    Honestly I don't mind the current system anymore; I've adapted. And I have no intention of using non-meddable armor; I'm too mana dependent for it. But I just think it'd be cool to have "tank warriors" in full plate, or at least full studded without "mage armor," out in front again.

    Ideally I'd like to tie it in to not having Chivalry or Bushido and have "pure" parry warriors again.....But that's not realistic and makes it way too complicated. And besides, why shouldn't the damage-absorbing tank get the ability to deal out the heavy damage too?

    -Galen's player
     
  16. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    Yes, publish 15 and 16 damaged the game before AoS. LBR forward basically was the start of the broken quasi-unplayable UO we have today.
     
  17. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Thanks for confirmation on the timing of those changes.

    I disagree that the system is "broken" or "quasi-unplayable" today, however.

    -Galen's player
     
  18. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    875
    Likes Received:
    0
    At some point in between the dreams of PvP being balanced and PvM being fun, a reason to wear anything BUT meddable armour should be introduced(yet another dream by the way).

    In addition there should be different reasons to wear different types of non-meddable armour, and there should be Set Bonuses for wearing Full Set Platemail/Chainmail/Whatever even if quite small.

    And in my mind those reasons should affect both PvP and PvM.
    With the chaos all the items have caused and the fever all those different systems are going to put us through to obtain and preserve them, plus the crafting changes with SA, this will fit right in.

    Least they can do (and I've been saying this time and again) is allow us to visually alter our items. Give us an 11th Anniv Reward or 112th Year Vet Reward that lets us change the appearance of our armour parts and weapons. Practically just an "illusion" and only for looks.

    Let us have that, if nothing else. Or hey, I can keep burning duped Hammers making platemail. :loser:
     
  19. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    9
    Sometimes a set is its own reward - the bonus is that you look fashionable :)
     
  20. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,514
    Likes Received:
    2,908
    It would take some reworks of some pretty established systems but:

    1) New resist cap of 80.
    2) Change how med works. Instead of having heavy armor tottaly negate med, heavy armor will act as a -skill to med (not real only shown). The heavier the armor the more med it drops.
    3) Might have to adjust damage levels to like 65 resist average.

    Plate: +15 to max resist per piece. 80 max for a full suit. -9 to med per piece, leaving med at 46 from gm, or 66 ledgendary.

    Bone: +13 to max resist per piece. 78 max for a full suit. -8 to med per piece, acting at 52 med from GM, 72 ledgendary.

    Chain/wood: +12 to max resist per piece. 72 max for a full suit. -7 to med per piece, acting as 58 med from GM, 72 from ledgendary.

    Ring: +11 to max resist per piece. 66 max for a full suit. -6 to med per piece, acting as 64 med from GM, 84 from Ledgendary.

    Studded/hide: +10 to max resist per piece. 60 max for full suit. -5 to med per piece, acting at 80 med from GM, 100 from ledgendary.

    Plain/leaf +9 to max resist per piece. 54 max for a full suit. No med penalty.

    Of course you would still have to hit the caps with the armor.

    This makes stonger armor would actually offer more protection (imagine that!) without making them tottaly useless in terms of mana regen. Also it would still allow for mixing and matching of parts. Seems like a pretty decent way to do it.