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PVP is NOT a feature in Ultima Online!!!

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by Velvathos, Sep 4, 2008.

  1. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
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    Everyone seems to assume that PvP is just a feature in Ultima Online these days, so I will sum this up. I will be speaking for Classic UO, and Siege Perilous, where there are no rules and or player restrictions that don't make sense. So let's take a step back to remember, that Ultima Online has no PvP feature, even on Siege Perilous, there was no PvP feature in Classic UO, Pre-Ren, and there is still no PvP feature as of today. With insurance and trammel, and all this non-sense in UO, people assume that PvP is just a feature..

    To curtail the untoward conceptions of the sagacious few whose curious travels from the status quo have charmed their souls at the altar of Ultima Online is to make clear a very simple notion. It is a simplicity, though, which does not belie an importance worth the ribaldry of a thousand drunken sailors to accent its sweet bouquet. That is to wit, PvP is not a damn feature.

    To state what a sandbox is, does little to explain the concept. Far more important to its depth is what it isnot. Oh, how the questions rendered by the inquisitive betray them their former inculcation. 'What happens when a player takes control of all the resources in an area? What happens when a clan conquers an entire region? What happens if you sink a ship?'And yet to answer, the word will strike fear into his mind as he recalls the months of his life spent previously in the pursuit of mere items.
    'Nothing.' The shrill chatter of repetitive memories turns his guts inside out, 'othing happens. The will of the players, the whims of the world and the politics subjected to it are the only consequence to any action.' 'How can this be?'He grinds his teeth in defiance and looks to the ground to hide the swelling redness of his eyes, 'How can it be that there are no safeguards, no prevention, no preemption?' Broken, to his knees, he weeps.

    It is not nearly common enough for those who've recently learned of Ultima Online to be filled with the wondering of an infant drawing its first breath. Too often are the conceptions of known PvP Games brought aboard a ship of cynicism to the of Britannia and used to build the ramparts of tradition in a place which has none. It is my great pleasure, and indeed my duty as a gamer, to herald reality for the confused and set truth to the accidental deception of the innocently jaded minds.

    Ultima Online is not a PvP Game. I say this not as I draw back a fist in preparation of delivering the cliché of a childish notion that Ultima is 'more' than a game, 'more' than a PvP Game. No, Ultima Online is just a game, and is not, nor will it ever be, a PvP Game because it has not implemented a PvP system. PvP is an act; it is the one constant among all multiplayer games regardless of their design goals. It is competition, the inherent competition implied by setting two conscious minds in a controlled environment. What people speak of as PvP Games are systems of controlled competition, no more creative than the philosophical adaptation of bumper cars. Designed from the ground up to be an independently developed part of the game, a feature, PvP systems are the bane of the free formed world.


    Ultima Online's overlying design concept is simple, basic. Deceptively, it is that simplicity which taunts and derides any whose concepts of it are not clear because it is a fundamental difference in not only the function of a game, but also of its purpose. So although simple, the concept is entirely new to most gamers. Even veterans of such sinews that have held the genre together for so long (Ultima Online, Shadowbane, Asheron's Call, EVE Online, etcetera) have yet to truly see the concept reach the fruition which waters our mouths and has us enthralled with its temptation. It is the realization of a 'sandbox' MMO. A world where players are given a plastic shovel and bucket and let loose to build, destroy, and control whatever they wish, however they wish.

    There is no PvP 'feature'; there is no honor point tracking, no grinding for PvP gear, no silly loot restrictions. No items of profound power or item grinds. There is no invisible hand to save you from the consequences of your actions; the retribution of angry players against you for your transgressions will be unfettered by game mechanics. No classes, no dependencies. Most importantly, there is nothing in the game that you must do to be successful. Everything is available, everything optional, and everything free. This isn't PvP, this is choice; this is freedom.

    It is perhaps the truest form of a role-playing game. A novel of endless pages with no words beyond the title, where the living hedonic reflection of one's mind is haphazardly scrawled in the margins as hands of strangers feverishly scribble pieces of their own tattered realities on the pages. It is the one luxury of utter madness, and delivered without the consequence of delusion.
     
  2. Anjeel

    Anjeel Guest

    Im afraid you are terribly incorrect and I will explain it very simply.

    A pvp system is a system which allows for and encourages pvp.

    Please look at factions and what was chaos/order.

    Please look at the implementation of champion spawns.

    Please look at the implementation of reds/murder counts.

    Please look at warring guilds.

    And as for the PvP systmes being the bane of the free form world I have to laugh. PvP makes a game to me as well as many others. Without it, you would have no "free form world". You would have EQ2 at launch which was terrible.

    Thats a heck of a no pvp systems game.
     
  3. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
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    Guild Warring is a feature, not a PvP system or PvP feature, most guilds that do Warring do not ATTACK eachother, MOST guilds use the warring feature for Role-Playing..

    Champion Spawns isn't a PVP system, it is a PVM system in a place with no rules..

    I don't want to get into the whole reds/murder counts.. It was meant to be the alignment system of Ultima Online, not something to encourage PvP, it basaclly said that you can attack anyone, anywhere, or kill anyone, anywhere, but there is consequences for your actions.

    I will have to agree with factions..
     
  4. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
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    What moderator put this into speils and rants?? This not a speil or a rant, or a troll.. (Please move this back to U.Hall for people to read.)
     
  5. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I'm sorry, Guild Warring is not a PvP system??? Most guilds that War do not attack each other????

    Guild warring is all about PvP, even if it is role-playing! What do you think you do in a war?! They implemented the whole thing about warring just so you could attack one another without becoming a criminal not just for role playing. But role playing or not, it is still PvP
     
  6. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
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    I understand, PvP in roleplaying only happens when there is a reason to fight another player, wether it be a plot or a storyline, or fighting an orc, while staying in character... I meant that we as roleplayers, don't attack at random.. :)

    Guild Warring is and can be considered more of a role-playing aspect, and Ultima Online is a roleplaying game.

    Ultima Online is built around roleplaying and realism, not PvP..
     
  7. Felonious Monk

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    Roleplaying?
    Factions
    Guilds
    Felucca non guard zone........
    I see you. I engage with an intent to kill and aquire insurance/loot.
    Your role is kill or be killed.
    Simple isnt it?
     
  8. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    PvP is certainly a part of Ultima. It's also here to stay, and much enjoyed in its many forms in both Trammel and Felucca.

    If it was born out of the lack of rules in the old Ultima Online world then so be it. Creating such a huge game and trying to make it a real virtual world leaves a lot of gaps open for various play styles since death isn't permanent and the world and conditions the game simulates allows for them. Those play styles may or may not reflect a real person's personality and none of us should judge a person in this light by the way.

    You can't stop it, only by enforcing rules. They would not enforce rules in Felucca because this offsrping of UO called PvP was very interesting.. After all Richard Garriot could have REMOVED ALL PVP ELEMENTS IF HE WANTED.. So they created Trammel. These facts show that Garriot back then and EA now consider PvP and PvM the two sides of the same coin and try to promote and balance both.

    Your point was...?
     
  9. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Bravo! Your mastery of the written medium astounds and humbles me. The elegance that flows throughout your passage is enthralling and far surpasses such fare that I have recently borne witness to.

    I shall brave the ire (and the musk) of yond thousand drunken sailors in reply.

    Applauded is your willingness to bear the mantle and herald the reality to those new and unfamiliar to the lands of Britannia; and to rectify the conceptions, nay, the very notion that our beloved land should adhere to the rules and forms of known PVP games.

    Britannia, as you have so artfully transcribed, is perhaps the truest form of an RPG, an empty tome where Britannians are indeed wholly free to write their own novels. In these lands lie a myriad number of elements with which each and every Britannian can express their true selves, or in essense, their souls. I humbly quote "There is nothing in the game that you must do to be successful. Everything is available, everything is optional, and everything is free."

    Save for organized events, there is no mechanically imposed environment that is sanitized for the purpose where two such souls can pit their wits and skills against their adversary. If it is the wont of such individuals to have their duels unperturbed by other souls without honor, they need to rely on other allied souls of the same mind to enact retributions against any transgressors.

    Such is the concept of the Britainnian lands - an alternate world and social experiment where players police themselves, where the economy adjusts to demand and supply of the players, where players can be what they want to be.

    Such is the legacy of the visionary that will soon make his own ascension to the stars.

    Such is Ultima Online.
     
  10. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    This dribble reads like a cheap drugstore novel(not to mention that it is completely off- target)

    My bad for plowing through :*(
     
  11. Locker

    Locker Guest

    I'm guessing you just posted this cause you are bored and want to argue with some folks but just for the record in case it hasn't been said enough...

    It takes ONE simple question when determining if a game is pvp or not and it goes a little something like this (hit it!):

    "Can I fight other players?"

    If the answer is yes then it's a pvp game, period.

    If you want to divide it up further there are games that are more pvp than others and we can use a scale like this based on another question:

    "Hey man, is Game X a pvp game?"

    Potential answers (scale):

    1 - Well you can duel but that's about it
    2 - There are restricted areas for pvp
    3 - There are specific pvp zones
    4 - There are specific servers for pvp
    5 - You can smoke anyone, anywhere, any time

    Now there are lots of pvp variations to get into but they all count as pvp (racially based, server based, faction based, guild based, bla bla bla).

    So when asking our initial question about UO ("Can I fight other players?") the answer is an easy one:

    "Yes you can!" = PvP Game
     
  12. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
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    My point is... I am saying that PvP was not implemented as a feature, just because PvP is in the game.. WoW, has PvP features, people act like it is a PvP game, but WoW, just has a feature to PvP, if it was a PvP Game, the game would revolve entirely around the freedoms that we see in UO, EVE, Shadowbane, and the up-coming Darkfall Online.. The reason for PvP is the realism of the games and the player freedom that is involved...
     
  13. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
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    I disagree.. There is PvP in just about every MMORPG, but that doesn't mean they revolve around PvP.. A game that actually revolves around PvP, is a PvP Game, such as Fury Online, nothing but PvP, Ultima is indeed a MMORPG, which means Roleplaying Game... In order for roleplaying to exist, you need realism and freedom from restrictions that don't make sense, this is why we see PvP in UO... If UO revolved soley around PvP, then it would be a PvP Game, UO on the other hand, has other aspects, but PvP is not a feature in UO, which is what I am trying to get acrossed.. The PvP is not a feature added on top of “the real game”. So then take WoW for example, it is the completer opposite.. UO is a sandbox game. There are two main categories in the MMORPG genre which are often referred to as “Theme Park” and “Sandbox."

    The overwhelming majority of MMORPG’s today belong to the Theme Park category. A Theme Park is often carefully planned and can deliver some very unique attractions. On the other hand, the attractions usually require you to be of a certain age or length to ride them, you have to stand in line, and none or minimal interaction is needed from your part. Like a real theme park it always looks the same and chances are you grow tired of the rides after 20 times or so, unless the theme park creates new exiting rides to keep the park entertaining.

    In a Sandbox game you are able to create your own rides, and you interact with other players most of the time instead of NPCs. Every time you play will be a unique experience as the player interactions determine the outcome, and the world changes and reacts dynamically to their actions. This type of game typically lasts longer, but requires more involvement by the players.

    So in a "Theme Park Game" everything you do is feature added on top of the game, such as crafting, PvM, PvP, and everything else.... But in a sandbox game, nothing is feature added..
     
  14. SAVATAGE

    SAVATAGE Seasoned Veteran
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    UO was made as a experiment in social interaction online. Yes the original UO was intended for people to pvp and resolve there disputes.... Pkers took it to a next level of all out killing people for fun. THUS the next stage of UO was born....
     
  15. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    PvP is a bug. :D
     
  16. ZippyTwitch

    ZippyTwitch Lore Keeper
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    Well when all the virtues are actually usuable by players and if you want to master all 8 virtues then you will HAVE to Pvp. Because the only way to gain Justice is by killing a murderer. The virtue system is a feature of uo.So hence pvp is linked to that feature making it a featue. Thank you end of story:)
     
  17. landon27

    landon27 Guest

    Look pvp is something you can do in uo. When the game first started with out tram all we did is pvp. Pvp is a feature thus you can attack someone in fel and they put champs there to encourage us to pvp. If they did not want you to pvp you could not attack others plane and simple. Its a RP where guilds and factions can kill each other for the sake of role play.
     
  18. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    No "we" didn't.
     
  19. ZippyTwitch

    ZippyTwitch Lore Keeper
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    Actually YES you did. Before Tram EVERY area outside of a guard zone was a pvp area. Noone made plans to go monster hunting without factoring of pks raiding them.
     
  20. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Factoring in self-defense != "all we did is pvp"