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PVP Necro Tamer template/tactics... help?

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by L1Z4RD, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. L1Z4RD

    L1Z4RD Guest

    Hi all, first post :dunce:

    I have recently returned to ultima and am wanting to freshen up my character templates...its been quite some time. Anyways, I had read a template a few years back showing a necro tamer template for pvp that used a hiryu and was said to be the 'best' tamer temp for field pvp. Was wondering if anyone could give me some template ideas...as well as some field tactics for said template. Items needed for a successful suit will help too! Im still on a 700 cap :/

    I was thinking something along the lines of this...

    85 necro + 20 from bracers
    120 ss
    110 lore
    110 tame
    85 magery
    110 eval

    med? resist?

    EDIT: I realise this temp may be over my cap in the end, but I can squeeze stuff with items/jewels ;)

    Id wanna stay away from chiv heals due to the whole karma issue

    Thanks in advance!

    PS, does blood oath still work in pvp?
  2. icm420

    icm420 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 28, 2008
    Likes Received:
    A necro tamer mage is still decent for pvp, with the upcoming changes i am not sure how they will pan out..

    Right now mysticism is the way to go, but like i said they are going to change things soon and I am not sure what to think about tamers in pvp

    Anyway the common template would be
    120 ss
    100 necro
    110 lore
    40 med

    Now since your a 700 cap this will be a little harder, but still doable I think. Mana will be an issue, it always has been on these temps, but it's a quick killer usually and not designed to duel or for long drawn out battles. For those longer fights, despise etc, you would be in wraith form to draw mana back.

    Bloodoath works great in pvp still, its damage is now scaled vs resist spells so guys with 120 resist won't take as much damage from it. Bloodoath is better against dexxers anyways imo and most dexxers don't have resist. Pain spike is the big finisher tho and I really felt its absence when I switched to mysticism.

    Hiyru's arn't the best pets anymore, they are dragon slayer and weak as hell to cold, with mysticism there is a spell called hailstorm which is cold damage and with a dragon slayer book (3x damage to dragons) i would assume 2-3 hailstorms would drop a hiyru. It still *could* be useful, but a cu sidhe is usually the standard for a necro tamer. A dreadmare is best, but if you don't have one good luck finding one for sale, and if you do expect to pay a lot. Dreadmares are hands down the best pvp pet currently. A greater dragon is nice also, but requires you to be on foot. This isn't as big a deal to a necro tamer because of forms, but still you are on foot...bring bolas!

    I used to run a necro tamer, I loved it but ran into a huge issue..cu sidhes are fey slayer and when I got riding swiped by a bush dexxer, he chained mortal on my dog and dropped it. Riding swipe requires you to heal your pet all the way up to max life to get back on it.. and well that wasn't possible. The same trick was used on almost all my pets, the greater was a differnt story, but being on foot I was an easier target.

    Currently my tamer is a mystic. I love the offense of it, mixed with a casting pet spell plauge is godly, and cleansing winds helps negate the no resist spell.. also having focus vs spirit speak means better mana return.
    The mysticism temp looks very similar to the necro..
    100(120) focus
    120 mysticism
    110(ish) tame
    110(ish) lore
    40 med

    Some guys use a mark of travesty.. for I'm assuming extra meditation. I use a tamer tali also, since 87% control for a dreadmare was too low for me...the +5 tame/lore boost gets me to 99% control. This also requires a crystalline ring for the 20 focus and 20 mage weapon pen. I only use casting pets with this template, because spell plauge is triggered threw spells. I honestly had more fun with the necro tamer, and I love wither but the mysticism one works better overall. Unfourently mysticism is only beaten threw mysticism so it's sorta forced onto you. They are changing things but I am not sure how it will pan out in the end..
  3. L1Z4RD

    L1Z4RD Guest

    Thanks for your reply! Thats definitely a TON of useful info. I will probably look into building that mysticism build....although ive got some dicing to do with the 700 cap. Do you run an elf for that template?

    Also what are your stats like? What other artifacts/suit parts do you use?

    thanks again!
  4. icm420

    icm420 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 28, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I run humans for all my pvpers/pks because of Jack of Trades. Jot spellweaving alone is worth it, but as a red most of those abilities are highly useful, where a blue would not realize that a 20% chance to hide can be good or a 20% chance to track is good, etc. I use elf for my stealther because of the bonus to being harder to track...and while you can still cast the good spellweaving spells, the % is a lot lower.

    Crystalline ring is the biggest piece for any tight mysticism template, the 20 focus 20 magery 20 sdi and regens are absurd. If you are faction you get 3fcr on top of it which only makes the ring even stronger. I play non faction however and there is a new pair of glasses called night eyes. They have 10 DCI and 3fcr on them and solid 10s for resist, trumping the inquis. They are also really cheap, I think i picked a pair up for 35k, mayb mispriced but still they are cheap. Mage weapons are the defense these days, I use a planesword that is imbued, it has 50 lightning or fireball (i forget I have a bunch lol), 15 DCI, -20 magery penalty and no -1 fast casting. The crystalline ring allows that -20 pen to be negated resulting in free 120 weapon skill defense as long as that weapon is in your hand. Expect to be disarmed, but thats what potions, healing stone and such as for. I find myself going into protection a lot against dexxers these days because it is just easy and almost always guareteed to win. Add in a nasty pet chomping the guy and mayb a conflag potion or two and he isn't going to want to be around you for long.

    I use an LT sash, which is 10LRC 2MR and 5int bonus, but it isn't really neccessary for the build. Most people on my server know I have no resist spells, so I get mana vampired often, and this piece helps to counter that loss of mana. I also use +4 int boots which help get the mana up higher. I do not use a tangle, although I think I would if I could get the +25 hitpoints without a crimson cincture, since the tangle adds to mana, regen and dci. The garb is also the standard, 5dci and 2mr off a robe is crazy. The orny obviously for the brac, and the rest is imbued lrc stuff along the lines of mr2 lrc20 lmc8 with good resist. I use the tamer tali for the added control for my pets, the dreadmare is the one that talks back the most with 110/110 so I boosted the chance to control up that way. Suit is the standard for pvp these days, basically perfect, +25 hitpoints 100lrc 40 lmc 45+ dci (i think im about 60 to counter hit lower defense a little) 2/6 casting 15sdi with loads of mana regen, and a little hit point regen. I like hitpoints, I think high hit points are very important for pvp, espeically when you don't have resist spells, so I would suggest getting the +25 which is cap.

    The worst part of the template is the no resist spells, I sometimes take eval off and put resist on, mostly to irritate people, but my damage goes down a lot. Spell plauges hurt bad without resist, and of course you need a trapped box to counter para spams.

    As for your template.. that is going to be harder and I almost think you have to go faction so that you can use the mark of travesty to make up the 20 points you won't have to use. I take for granted that my account is 720 cap and this mayb very hard to do otherwise. The only option I can think of is doing 20 med vs 40 and you might as well go elf..since 20 med is the same as 0 med on a human. If you don't have a dreadmare you mayb able to get away with a little bit lower taming/lore and using the tamer tali, I think a greater dragon is easier to control compared to a dread or a bane dragon, but you are more limited that way and always on foot. A dog won't work as well for a mystic tamer, since most of the offense is from spell plauge which is triggered by spells.. and generally you can just spam spellplauge with a casting pet, allowing the pet to trigger it. But you mayb able to use a non casting pet, it just puts more pressure on you as a mage.. but mysticism is very easy to play, it's catered for new players/ new mages.
  5. L1Z4RD

    L1Z4RD Guest

    Once again, you're a fountain of uo knowledge. Thanks for taking the time to be thorough with the build and tactics. The human makes perfect sense to run for a pvp toon.

    Im currently finishing the suit for this current build.... shes mainly for pvm peerless and spawns, but might fare ok in pvp with some suit/stoned-skill adjustments (although id run a dif template for serious pvp)...who knows. the 700 cap calls for some serious cramming to get all these skills in...but here it is.

    110 tame
    110 Lore +5 (115)
    85 +15 Necro +5 from tali and jewels (105)
    95 SS +10 from tali + 15 jewels (120)
    115 weave
    85 mage +15 Tome (100) **for gates, res, heals, cures, etc
    100 vet

    stoned skills to swap for vet:
    **100 Med
    **100 resist
    **100 eval


    3 fcr
    + 5 lore
    +15 ss
    +15 necro

    15 dci
    20 lrc

    Bloodwood tali
    arcane shield for the 2/6
    garb +tangle for 10 dci
    runic gloves, legs, arms
    int boots
    LB sash
    head ??? Kasa/magi? runic?

    The idea is to cram as much MR on the suit as I can (also in wraith 90% of time anyway). But I also have med, eval and resist stoned for off for this char to swap vet out for (since this is mainly a pvm planned char). I also have a little bit of cushion left on those jewels. This template is very fun to play and super effective at spawns, doom, peerless etc....although the sdi should be higher :/

    for pvp, I could lower weaving a bit and swap out vet which would give me some flexibility for eval etc.

    A few other fun pvp templates I had an idea of trying out were these:

    myst archer tamer

    myst 110
    focus 100 (120)
    arch 100 (120)
    tact 90
    tame 110
    lore 115
    chiv 75

    Try to fare with the 4/6 chiv casting for heals/remove curse etc....pretty much use myst for spell plague spam and healing stone while casting pets nuke and you follow with mortal/para shots. stats and suit might be an issue tho...but i think it could be fun! remove curse, close wounds, cleanse by fire on 4/6 + trap box ftw

    Ninja wrestler stealth tamer

    110 + 10 wrestle (120) from pugs
    120 ninja
    85 +25 Tame (110)
    110 Lore
    110 Stealth
    100 Hiding
    65 Chiv

    So Gimp, it'll make you wanna slap someone's momma

    Would need uber dex.....but id run with plenty of bolas and a GD. Disarms, stuns, death strikes (they WILL run), all kills, darts, smokebombs, 4/6 chiv....you get the picture :) This template would be seriously LULZ to play....plus I love the poop your pants factor of a stealth tamer ^.^

    ...just some thoughts
  6. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Oct 14, 2007
    Likes Received:
    i have a necro tamer but i added stealth to him.. he is very fun to play.

    his temp is like
    100 necro real
    100 ss real
    110 magery real+jewelery
    110 taming real+jewelery
    110 lore real+jewelery
    80 vet real
    100 hiding real
    80 stealth real

    he is a full skill jewerly set to help with extra skills.

    no mana but he has 15 mr on suit and can cast lich form for an extra 25 when you need to spam heal the dragon.

    also for champ spawns i go in wraith form and cast wither when needed to keep mana full with no problems.
  7. icm420

    icm420 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 28, 2008
    Likes Received:
    ok is a lot here for me to wrap my head around so let me try to break this down...

    I used to run a template similar to this for soloing lady mel, I dropped vet tho and picked up eval so that I could do damage threw magery and leech mana back. I ran very little meditation, if any because of the mana leech. A super slayer book does 2x damage to mobs, and a single slayer (example dragon slayer) does 3x damage. With these changes it is possible to do a huge amount of damage, and so you can leech back enough mana to basically keep going non stop. Word of Death doesn't use slayers, but you leech threw wraith, which allows you to cast it non stop...assuming you are fighting a high mana moster. Lady Mel is a fey slayer, and the new boss in SA, stygian dragon, regulary drops a fey slayer mystic book. Anyway with spellweaving you can pretty much negate vet, you can use a "dot" heal known as gift of renewel and you also get arcane empowerment, which increases the amount of damage healed letting you heal your pet back up quickly. On top of that you can cast a spell called gift of life, which is a self res, but it is castable on pets also. It is not a sure bet, and you have to keep recasting every so often, but it is nice to know you have the ability to res a pet if need be. In all honesty tho with arcane empowerment g heals your pet shouldn't die.

    I should mention that with this template you really need to run a Greater Dragon, the high hit points mixed with great resists really makes for the best tank in game...and you are relying on wraith form so you will be on foot anyway...it just makes sense.

    As for the suit, Lower Mana Cost is important so that you can reduce your cost of casting spells. Most people think MR beats LMC, but this isn't true. You could have 20 MR and 10 LMC and will constantly be out of mana because spells take a larger chunk of it to cast. LMC works by 5s, so having 28 LMC for example is the same as having 25. Anyway if you can get this to 35-40 you will be in good shape. With wraith form you should leech enough mana to be ok anyways..assuming you have eval. Kasa of Rajin is a great resistance piece, but it lacks mods. Hat of Magi is nice for the 4MR and 8 int bonus but has low resistances. I would just try to do the best you can, if something doesn't seem to work very well swap it out and try something else. Usually tho a kasa is used in conjunction with a pendant of magi since the pendant is high on mods but low on resists.

    Pvp tamers do not run vet usually. Greaters can be killed easier then I care to admit, hailstorm with dragon books is crazy damage.. but the firepower is huge compared to most templates. Your average dexxer is not going to want to stand toe to toe with a Greater, and if you cast on top of it he isn't going to be around very long. A smart mage will try to paralyze your dragon, or invis a lot to get it off him, but that is why you use your magery/necro/spellweaving. Also if you say "All Guard Me" if you are targetted or if you do damage to someone the pet will go for that person, this makes it very important to say "All Guard Me" when withering, your pet will chomp multiple people as you wither, potentially killing everyone around you, in the very least making them scatter. HOWEVER, if you plan to pvp you really need 120 skills, GM or 110 will work for pvm, but you it will hurt you in pvp. For example mysticism is directly based skill vs resist spell. Almost every character that has resist spell is going to be 120, making 120 mysticism very important. Spiritspeak can be run at gm or 110, but the big damage, and the big curse durations will be at 120 ss. Also do not ever underestimate spellweaving, 90ish skill is 100% to cast essence of wind which is the biggest enemy of a mage in game. It will literally add seconds to casting time, if a guy is 'winded' and trying to cast mass dispel for example he may not be moving for 10 seconds. This gives your pet a great target to chomp. Just make sure you get a level 6 arcane focus, this literally adds 6 seconds to debuffs (wind, t-storm, etc), damage to spells, duration and points absorbed or healed(attunement/GoR). The biggest thing you need to worry about in pvp is the defense. Most tamers are weak on defense which leads to the kill the tamer idea vs killing the pet. If you can make it so your tamer is hard to kill, you will kill a lot of people. An archer for example could run around non stop, using the moving shot special and kill you before your pet ever gets close to them. A mage weapon is the best bet, it's free defense as long as you have it in your hand (watch out for disarms).

    The problem here is that mysticism is just like magery for chiv. You are capped at 2/6 chiv when you go above 59.9 magery or mysticism. (My numbers mayb off a little, it could be 49.9 I forget now honestly!). But the point is the same, you can't be a 4/6 chiv mage or mystic :(. The mystic archer was nasty with a Yumi bow, double shot and spell plauge was pretty much insta killing people. It is something to consider but it seems more like a yew gate template to me. Also without resist spells you are limited to what you can do. If you get mana vampired you are pretty much a sitting duck since almost all of your healing is threw mana. 4/6 chiv without resist is easy to kill, 4/6 chiv with resist is very hard to kill.

    It is an interesting idea, I don't care for a stealth tamer, but it has potential for sure! I love wrestle for bolas, but I do not like wrestle for offense. The only temp I have seen that works well with wrestle is throwing/archery. The high dex gives fast swings and high HCI gives better % to hitting..but it is used mostly to counter the biggest weakness of an archer/thrower which is disarms. I don't want to say it won't work but I wouldn't try it.. I don't do stealth so that alone makes it not fun to me, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work. Try it out and let us know!
  8. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    I was under the assumption they removed slayer vulnerability from all ML peerless? I know that went in a year or 2 ago. Are you saying they put it back in? Or is it just spell books were not touched?
  9. icm420

    icm420 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 28, 2008
    Likes Received:
    To my knowledge fey slayer spellbooks and fey slayer bows (i assume also the throwing weapon) works on lady mel. I am not really playing now, I am waiting for the pvp changes until I start back up, but last time i did lady mel i was hitting 200+ on flamestrikes. I havn't done one in probably 3 months, but it was working then. Spellweaving doesn't have slayers, it works off SDI, so you can't use a slayer book on WOD, but for everything else it seemed to work. I don't think it was doing triple damage, but it was defenitly doing double damage. As for more specific slayers, I have a 9sdi dragon slayer book that tears Greater Dragons apart, I hit somewhere around 130 with hailstorms in pvp.
  10. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    When ML was only a few months old I would hit Mel with the pixi swater for 160-180. Then after a while they announced slayer were not going to effect peerless and my damage dropped to 60-80. So the new slayers were not associated with that change. Hrmmm...