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PvP pets

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by DreadLord Lestat, Jun 20, 2010.

  1. DreadLord Lestat

    DreadLord Lestat Social Media Liaison
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    Ok, I am looking for a nice pvp pet/pets. I have never really pvp'd as a tamer before other than defending myself. What pet or pet combinations do you recommend (I do not have a dreadmare at this time and probably won't be able to acquire one) and why? I
     
  2. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    If you use a greater dragon, you are going to be an easy, slow-moving target unless you have ninja for animal form. You will also be inviting aggression, as using greaters in PvP is even more frowned upon than dreads. Thus, I do not recommend greaters.

    If you cannot acquire a dread, then you should aim to acquire a bane dragon. These are the most versatile pets for PvP, due to their high hp, resists, and magic-casting abilities.

    If neither a dread nor a bane dragon is a possibility, then I recommend a cu sidhe. They are somewhat slow, though, so you will want to be able to use either paralyze or nerve strike to hold your target stationary.

    Some players tout the benefits of a beetle/bake or beetle/mare combo in PvP. There are certainly some benefits: in particular, dp and corrode armor are side effects of a beetle attack. However, understand that these pets, with their low viability, will easily be led away from you and killed. They may be strong offensively, but they will die quickly and regularly.

    I have never experimented with a skree, but supposedly they cast sleep a lot.
     
  3. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    The pet combinations I use all the time are nightmare and rune beetle, or nightmare and regular old dragon. You need to take the time to find good quality ones, and train them up, but once you learn how to use them they can be devastating, and I'll take them over a dread warhorse any day.

    But it really depends on what your template is going to be. I run a tamer/mage template, if you were to run some kind of warrior/tamer hybrid what would work well for you would be entirely different.
     
  4. DreadLord Lestat

    DreadLord Lestat Social Media Liaison
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    I am experimenting right now but running a tamer/archer and working in stealth right now though it is real crowded and not sure I will keep it once completed. I will probably drop hiding and stealth and pick up anatomy and something else.
     
  5. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    That's a tough one. I would probably recommend a mare and beetle, just make sure you get a beetle with really good resists, because beetles can be hard to keep alive. You will need some way to heal your pet though. Any pet becomes much less effective when it is badly wounded, not to mention having to constantly get your pets rezzed is annoying and bad for their skills.
     
  6. Now that blackrock stew is selling for as little as 5k/bowl, (the recipe now being available) the Bane Dragon will certainly come into its own. As noted it has better stats and casting ability than most of the limited supply of Dread Warhorses - few of which have good resists and mana - plus it can literally shoot poison out its backside. I discovered this less than charming capability when training one....you can't use the trick of grabbing up a bunch of binders in Old Haven to blast it into GM spell resist because it will kill them all with its back turned to them. I had not noticed this "backfire bomber" talent prior to the availability of cheap stew.

    There are two problems with the Bane. First, getting a good one is painful. It took hours - and I mean HOURS - of farming them to get good ones. By "good" I mean mana well over 125 (like the Dread, it can go as high as 165), HP over 620, strength over 530, and very good resists. Their HP can go as high as 650 but that stat is the least important of the lot.

    I don't want to calculate the time it took me to get two in the 4+ rating range. You're also having to do this farming in Slasher's stomping ground of the Abyss.

    Second is training their magery. No matter how good you do you will likely begin with magery in the 30s, with eval and med only slightly better. Expect to spend 10 hours or more to GM magery on a Bane employing a Shadow Ely. Tricks I use are feeding it stew of course (only once every 24 hours will keep a Shadow Ely poisoned for HOURS and actually be able to put a dent in its HPs as its magery climbs), and buffing it to the point where some of its spells fizzle. This means applying Bless and Strength, beyond their ability to bless themselves, constantly.

    When you're done you'll have a true oddity among UO pets: a combat animal more capable trained than it was in the wild. The Bane is not a divide by two pet to begin with, which helps.

    I would also submit that the Hiryu is an extremely capable combat comrade against people. I think one of the reasons they're not used much is that people don't understand them well. They look for the wrong things.

    Two stats, beyond resists of course, are keenly important on a Hiryu: intelligence and strength, in that order.

    They do not cast but their intelligence (max: 325 prior to blessing) governs the power of their specials. Their chief special, of course, is Dismount. A Hiryu with high intel can dismount you in a manner that makes remounting impossible for an extended period. At max strength (705) you can go into combat with them at over 800 buffed with Bless and Strength. A high strength, high intel Hiryu will simply kill your dismounted self quickly.

    Of course, the Hiryu cannot bless itself. You have to do it.

    Hiryus are also natural dragon slayers, much as the Cu is a natural demon slayer. They are effective against Banes and Reptilons solo, and I've taken down Greaters with a Hiryu but only with vetting. These, of course, are my "pre-patch" Hiryus.

    Pre-patch or no, an unaided, high stat Cu Sidhe will best an unaided Hiryu. The Cu is slow but that's a moot point. UO combat pets, unlike UO players, don't run away from one another ;)

    The whole matter of whether players frown your use of a combat animal or not involves a realm of abject whining idiocy you rarely find at such an extreme level elsewhere in the game.

    Some players simply insist that something illegitimate was used against them whenever they die. That's a separate matter.

    Others make an illogical distinction between a combat pet and other weapons, as if a Dread is somehow different than a bow or a sword. If you're attacked, bows fire on their own; swords swing on their own. If you issue the Guard Me command pets will attack what attacks you. The only difference is that the archer has archery and tactics; you have taming and lore. Both skill sets were obtained though tedious repetitive actions. This is more a cultural thing than a matter of reason. No skill, all kill...and similar nonsense.

    Ultima Online, unlike a scrupulous combat or sports simulation, is not a game of skill in that sense. Rather it's a cumulative character game where the game itself bestows player characters with greater capabilities based on a combination of repetitive action history and load-out: skill points, and gear. If I have performed a given action enough times, and am equipped with items complimenting that action, performing that action "in anger" will have an in-game consequence. In many cases, unlike a bow or a sword, it's not even the simulation of a skill. There is no such thing as an ebolt or an energy vortex arising from the waving of a book in the air no matter how ardently I do it.

    So what is skill? Situational awareness and effective response to situations. Those are very genuine, very real skills indeed.

    Anyone familiar with UO combat mounts will issue the Guard Me command prior to mounting the animal. If someone chooses to dismount you, they've seen you on the mount, they've elected to attack you, they have to know - in advance - that the pet will, in turn, attack them. If they have no counter measure for this clear and obvious inevitability they have, in essence, brought a knife to a gunfight. There is no greater demonstration of the absence of skill, by any definition, than that.
     
  7. Kayne.

    Kayne. Journeyman
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    I'm using bake/bake for fun.

    Keep in mind......you are not PvPing

    other players are PvMing.
     
  8. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    If you are a tamer pvp'ing, and you think that other players fighting you are "pvm'ing", you don't know what the hell you are doing. There is a very big difference between fighting a mob, and fighting that same mob controlled by an experienced pvp tamer.
     
  9. Very, very different game, to echo my far more learned colleague.

    PvM is more a defense or support game. The beast "tanks" for you against the monster and you keep the pet alive while staying out of harm's way. In most cases this is shockingly easy to do.

    PvP....well...the opponent has brains, not AI subroutines, and will focus on more than a single target at a time, with you being first on his list - or, rather, their list as these are not a series of one on one fights like a Jackie Chan movie.

    Let me be clear. I'm not much good at it....yet. It's complex, things happen very quickly and, as I said, situational awareness and response are very real and sophisticated skills in an otherwise tedious game where the chief activity is collecting things and amassing Wiemar Republic Deutschmarks.

    I adore the Bake too, though they lose both their laugh and their ability to assume human form when tamed, alas. They're a good, tough tame that you tend to take on when you're just starting to learn about the tough tame. They're the gap between the Frenzied Ostard and the Nightmare in my view. And, yes, I think they're fun and I've GMed two of those cute little guys but I just don't find that they perform up to the level of the stats. Fortunately, in the larger scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. I just make sure that if I'm running a WW/Bake duo that I take the WW out of the stable first. That way I know it will "tank" against a lone enemy because the Bake isn't very durable.

    I wouldn't use them against people. But that's just my opinion. I still make sure I have raw fish for Mister Giggles, even though he'll eat raw ribs, and I like to imagine that he's a little happier because I do. The game would be dull indeed if we didn't bring our imaginations along with us when we log on.

    Going back up topic, I too have a stealth/tamer/archer for PvP and it is a difficult template. I keep swapping out ninjitsu with chivalry, the latter being more useful when he is performing in the tamer capacity. I'm less inclined to jump into animal form when I have an animal or two in the field of battle. It doesn't seem to bother Walter, though, (my pre-patch Ice colored Hiryu) that he's following a llama that's invisible to the rest of the virtual world as I make my merry way around. Walter, like all Hiryus, is a low maintenance pet whereas Cu Sidhes always seem at least vaguely bothered by something or another, grumbling under their breath. But I digress.

    The archer tamer cannot distance heal. This makes them less than ideal for those tedious peerless wear-'em-down fights because it seems that all of those boss monsters have area effect spells that rule out slapping on the bandages directly.

    But if you doll the guy up with a Hunter's Headress, Shadow Dancer Leggings, an augmentation cloak, a Conjurer's Trinket, with suitable jewelry, a Cloak of Silence (you can wear both it and the augmentation cloak as the latter is actually a cape), some good power bows (balanced if you're fighting people) you still have an archer who can hit HARD, hit OFTEN, and can make up in offense what he lacks in defense. You don't get the Bushido honor damage bonus. There's simply no room for Bushido, but that does not apply to PvP anyway....not that aspect. You max out your hit chance with gear. The balanced bow...well...PvP seems as much a healing speed race as it does a damage dealing contest and you simply MUST be able to consume potions.

    I do the fame dump (Sacrifice), fame/honor regain gig at Fan Dancer Dojo against those howling Succubuses, and find that I actually get in and out of there faster with my archer/tamer than I do my Mage/Tamer. Can't get near the Succubus, but I can be perforating them with arrows while my world weary Cu, Duncan, is chomping them to death. With this combo, those man-hating demons die at a much higher rate. Most monsters, unlike all people, tend to spawn at the rate at which you kill them.
     
  10. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    In PVP its all about range, burst damage, gotchas, and outsmarting your resourceful opponents.

    Pets all have their ups and downs.

    If you are a human/elf you'll want a mount you can sit on top of to keep it protected - and also so you dont have a slow pet following you around. Keep in mind an enemy isnt just gonna sit there and let your pet kill them so you need a way to immobilize your enemy's speed - bolas for mages, or heavy xbow for archers. followed by para blow/paralyze stuns, mortal strike, and moving shots. good mounted pet combos below:

    dread warhorse- the most popular pvp pet, also the rarest. has no slayer so someone really has to work to kill it. you can also have a 2 slot pet with this such as nightmare (backup mount), bake kitsune, etc

    bane dragon- potentially more powerful than the dread with its poison breath (remember you want "gotchas") but its a dragon, so 4 ebolts with a dragon slayer=dead bane dragon. thus you would want to stay mounted until ready to kill someone to keep it "safe".

    Cu- very powerful tank critter, doesnt do damage at range so you need to be able to halt or box in your opponent to let the cu get in range. boxing an opponent in works best at choke points and small rooms where you can trap them (star room) etc. a side bonus is it can take care of itself most of the time, but you dont want to be running around unmounted. and lastly although effected by fey slayer, not everyone has one all the time or may think of using it.

    rune beetle + mare

    (etc)

    if you are a gargoyle since you cant mount your pet there is really only ONE pet for you. the greater dragon. since you cant mount to keep it safe, its high hp, resists and ability to take damage will help keep it alive. the greater dragon is a choke point buster, like the Cu. we have wrecked our enemy guild time and time again by just having one dismount greater dragon guy. again you will want a way to neutralize your opponents ability to run away so dismounts and stuns are needed. cyclones for throwers are very very nice weapons, they do dismount, stun, and moving shot. im thinking very seriously about making a thrower tamer. if you're a mage, again, bolas to dismount.

    like syrus said, people will give you crap for using a greater dragon, a dread mare, or even being a tamer. those same people wouldnt give a second thought to gangbanging you with 5 to 1 odds either if they found you alone. basically in pvp people will whine about anything "oh yeah well you wouldnt have got me except for your.. archery!" so frankly, i would care less what they thought. roll with what you got, have fun, slay your enemy, and use your imagination to come up with something sneaky and powerful. give yourself lots of tools for survival and ways to dismount and stun your enemy to let your pet get in range and you should be golden...