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PvP Story

Discussion in 'UHall' started by drinkbeerallday, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    I attack a Tamer.

    The tamer stands there and does absolutely nothing.

    The tamer's greater dragon attacks me. Suddenly I am at half life. I try to cast In Vas Mani, I fizzle, I am dead.

    PvP is not standing there and doing nothing. The Greater Dragon needs to be nerfed.

    END OF STORY.
     
  2. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Oh no, this topic again.
    Well then...
    :bdh:
     
  3. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    there is a difference btw a horse that brings you to 0 health in 2 seconds and a dead horse.

    somethings just need to be fixed. there no reason to nerf tamers then give tamers superdragons. they just shouldnt be tameable. i wouldnt be suprised if that was a bug they were to embrassed to mention or fix.
     
  4. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    dude it is overpowered.

    you're standing there pvp'ing then the next second you are hit with some crap you can't even forsee and it takes like 3/4 of your bar.

    it is totally overpowered. publish 55 sucks. the red healers were a nice thing but i'd rather see real fixes like greater dragons, beneficial acts etc...
     
  5. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    i wish i could cast dungeon on someone... they should make a summon greater dragon potion.
     
  6. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Lore Keeper
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    In Mani spam ftw.

    Not as efficient, granted, but more likely to be of SOME help in PvP.
     
  7. Multi Dwagon

    Multi Dwagon Lore Keeper
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    I think there is a reason Why this topic comes up.
     
  8. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    Greater dragons are an issue. This we all know. But I only take about 30 to 35 damage from them when they hit with a physical attack.

    One of the biggest problems with any pet involved in pvp is the fact the pet pretty much instantly appears next to you when someone says all kill. Pets also seem to move in bursts anyhow not exactly following the same rules as players are bound to with movement.

    I think a nice solution to the problem would be some anti-pet stuff. Things that will hinder the use of pets the same as disarming a player or dismounting them slows them down.

    Sure there are some things you can do but for how powerful some pets are in pvp there should be an equally powerful counter to balance them.

    That or take them the hell out of pvp...
     
  9. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
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    I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!
    nurf all AI tamables!!!
     
  10. Sounds like you shouldn't go around attacking tamers with reckless abandon.

    But I do feel like there should be certain ways to even the playing field. For instance if there was a way to cause the dragon to become momentarily distracted during battle... Wait a minute... THERE IS!!!
    :loser:
    Its called peacing.
     
  11. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    dude your so right, every warrior should have enought peacing and musicianship on their template to peace a greater dragon.

    be real dude. the only person who would have that on a char would be the person with the greater dragon in the first place. (120) 240 total.

    its hard but try to take the whole game into account.
     
  12. walter_mitty

    walter_mitty Guest

    why were you casting a greater heal, you should have been casting a mini heal.

    you must be so good at pvp lol
     
  13. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    ... and here I thought people PvP'd because they wanted the challange of someone smarter than Artificial Intelligence... Running up and attacking a tamer with a super dragon isn't something I'd really call intelligent. Crying about it afterwards is even worse.
     
  14. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    I'm not saying that Super Dragons aren't over powered, but by now the Super Dragons attacks shouldn't be "some crap you can't even forsee". I don't PvP but frankly if there is a Super Dragon there, I could 'forsee being hit with some crap that takes 3/4 of your life bar'.
     
  15. So let me get this right.
    You see a tamer with a greater dragon.
    You attack the tamer.
    The dragon kills you.

    Why did you attack the tamer?

    You know PvP balance doesnt mean every template is equal. If that where true everyone would just wrestle naked.

    I get your saying the dragon is a bit to much with 1 -2 hit kills. But why attack a tamer. You know the outcome.
     
  16. Skwiz

    Skwiz Guest

    Your opinion has been noted and deemed worthless..

    Thank you
     
  17. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    This a joke?
    Surely no one can be this ignorant :twak:

    Wait and i'll just drop resist and tactics from my template to deal with overpowered pets....
     
  18. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    Yes, it appears common sense is worthless to some in the PvP community.

    You're welcome
     
  19. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    Me thinks you might not be telling the entire story... there are plenty of things that sounds pretty fishy in your account. How about some more details.. like..

    Was the tamer standing there all by his lonesome? Or did you see the dragon before you attacked? Did you see the tamer had a "guarded" indicator on him? Did you move away from the greater once you were hit? Why did you cast greater heal? If you saw the greater before you attacked, without using a skill to counteract the greater, why? Would you attack a poisoner w/o having the ability to cure yourself? What was the tamer doing? What gear did you have on? What kind of weapon did you carry? Was it a slayer? Was it an opposing slayer? Where were you when you did this? Where you in a guard zone?

    I think your story, as presented is pretty biased and missing key information. I think it's designed to start another flaming thread attacking tamers + greater dragons. Tamer + Greater is overpowering to some templates, but not ALL templates.. that is balance.....
     
  20. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    YOU don't want to make the changes necessary to deal with a different template/weapon in pvp so it should be nerfed?

    Not an argument I find convincing.
     
  21. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    As far as I understand it, the only people that are arguing against a greater dragon nerf are those using greater drags in PVP or trammies who dont set foot in fel, but dont want to see their overpowered pets taken away or reduced in power..

    Is that a fair assessment?

    I think its pointless continuing these conversations on here because its just same old same old..
     
  22. Skwiz

    Skwiz Guest

    For a tamer to make himself stronger he would add these skills to his Tame/Lore

    Ninja
    Anat
    Archery
    Tactics
    Hide
    Stealth
    Healing
    Mage
    Eval

    All of which make him overall stronger versus *All* Templates...

    For a Mage Dexxer to do this he/she would add..

    Music
    Peace
    Disco

    Making him only stronger versus the tamer and weaker versus all other templates..

    Hows that?
     
  23. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    Okay so now your making it clear that you have absolutely no comprehension of how templates/skills work in uo.

    no resist = big problems in pvp
    no tactics = no specials

    My statement demonstrated that by incorporating the necessary skills to nullify the GD with peacmaking, I would have to leave out other core skills rendering the template useless.

    That went right over your head didn't it?
     
  24. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    Eh, that might be a fair assessment. I'm a 'trammie'(in your eyes), but I really don't care if Super Dragons are nerfed(whether it is in PvP only or accross the board).

    I just find it funny that PvPers, who I've seen in the past say they PvP because they want something more challanging than fighting artificial intelligence. Well, fighting artificial intellegence somewhat controlled by a player sounds a little more challanging than fighting artificial intelligence alone. Maybe too challanging to some? I guess so...

    ... but hey, back to the point, if greater dragons need to be changed to appease some then so be it. That won't bother me much. I'll adjust.
     
  25. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    I have no issue with anything you have said Ni. Tbh, i thought you talked sense in your last post.

    The fact is though, its not about a challenge being too great, these GD's are just overpowered, end of.

    I don't come up against them all that often so its not a major problem for me, but i just find it amusing how certain types of players will scramble to defend something for their own selfish reasons, and to hell with how it affects the others.

    I think tram based players who are getting involved in this are just skewing the debate when really there is no need. I think something should be done to fix GDs in a pvp sense, but not at the expense of the way that GDs function in Tram.
     
  26. Children please stop.

    Look PvP.

    Someone once gave a great description of over-powered. (not me). When a skill damages disproportionately to the amount of skill needed to execute it.


    Using that you might say a dragon's bite is a bit too high.

    As for all the name calling (minus me saying children), why not fish out a proactive plan.

    I for one think balance beyond the above is unrealistic. That is if you think every template combo should have counters to other templates and all battles therefore should be balanced... your mistaken.

    I think I will have to start a tamer. And pvp, and collect my 6k a kill. Whoa, I make more reselling stuff. Never mind.

    For me you PvPers should be concerned about the nerfing of PvP. Insurance, need for uber items, instant rezzing practically, no loot on your kills.

    You PvP with no risk.
    To me thats unbalance. Dieing with a 6k loss and getting back into the fight in 1 minute... come on. PvP needs more then a debuff to a dragon.
     
  27. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    I understand you point. Everybody is selfish to a point. Like I said, if it greater dragons need to be changed/nerfed, whether in PvP only or accross the board, then so be it. I'll adjust.

    That being said, I like my dragons(normal, WW, & greater). Not so much because of power, I've never had a rune beetle and I only have a cu and a dread war horse thingie because someone gave them to me, and they are ridable. I was born in the year dragon and I like them outside of UO(yes, I'm a dork). If they have to be nerfed to fix something for another play style, then I'll be ok with that, as long as they don't go overboard, don't make them weaker than a silly bug(rune beetle).

    How about ideas for bringing them back in line? What is it that you think is over powered about them? The tamer already can't be mounted. Is it only the breath weapon that needs to be toned down? What are a greater dragon's melee and breathe max dmgs you've seen? What is Armor Ignore maxed at? 35? What is Flame Strike max against 70 fire resist? What is the rune beetles max damage you've seen? What's their max poison level? L4? I don't PvP so I don't know this data. I do, however, like playing with numbers!

    If we pull this data here, I'm sure it will need to be placed in a new thread, or emailed to Jeremy, because I don't see the her or the devs reading this far down a 'brown' slinging thread(yes I admit to helping de-rail, sorry).
     
  28. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    Hmm.. interesting arguement. Pvp'rs don't own fel and get to dictate terms there... nor do Trammies own Tram/Tok/Malas/Ilsh and get to dictate terms there either. Can we agree we all pay our monthly fee, we are "allowed" to access all areas of the game, and we all have a valid and rightful say on what happens on each facet?
     
  29. Skwiz

    Skwiz Guest

    I posted this a while back in a Siege Perilous thread.. Take note.. Most of these are FOR SIEGE PERILOUS which is where i play, BUT some of them could be introduced into prodo shards with a little tweek. Like or dislike this is what i came up with.

    Cap firebreath at 35 with no basis on resist.

    End their casting range at 7 tiles. Make none of their spells delayed except explosion like it should be.

    Lower their hp by just a little.

    Make it so if they bite you and miss it no longer still applys bleed, therefore they have to Land a hit inorder to bleed.

    On siege perilous make monsters with a certain or higher barding difficulty impossible to bond.. Aka Super Dragons/Dogs/Beetles.. while still allowing crafters to bond their Beetles/Packs and regular players to bond mounts.

    ^ If not this.. Give pets a small timer of res sickness upon death so a tamer cant just instant res their pet and jump back into the fight.

    Either change it so Disco is a 100% Chance on Greater Dragons, or make dragons as uncontrolable as disco fails ( Ive seen 120/120 Music Peace fail on a dragon 5+ Times where the tamer at 120/120 has a 100% Control rate over it. ) What i mean by this is.. 100% Disco at 120/120 or 50% Control rate at 120/120.

    Change the pet command of "All Guard me" so i pet will not attack a player if the master goes into war and flags.. This is becomming a huge problem on siege if not all shards.. Stealth tamers are having their pets guard them and flagging *While in stealth* the dragon will attack whoever the master flagged without the master revealing. Also dismount archers are using this to instantly make the pet attack said player upon dismount.

    Possibly lower the max Wrestling of the dragon to something more reasonable. Its going to bite at 40+ So with 120+ Wrestling its not an often miss on siege perilous for our players that dont max out Dci.

    These are all ideas id like to see on siege only.. Considering Dragons arnt a problem on regular shards.. right?
     
  30. zeroshade

    zeroshade Guest

    ooook, the template as it was designed for originally is useless, BUT the one you created is a template to counter a tamer.

    One template should never be able to beat all other templates everytime. If you make a template designed to defeat a tamer, you probably should get killed more often by a dexer or pure mage. If your template is designed more towards beating dexers, then, well, you should loose to tamers and mages more.

    Sure you can build a template that does well against most other templates, but there will always be one that will get the better of you.
     
  31. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Tamers aren't that hard to kill...On my old dexer template I could kill a tamer within seconds. Had my armor/template and weapon set to where I could pretty much AI the tamer 3 times in a row before the dragon could get me below half. Then again, I had the advantage of being blue and the tamer flagging first.

    There are a lot of 'unfair' 'unbalanced' aspects to PvP. People get upset dying to a tamer because the person doesn't really do much. I feel the same way when I die to a script PvPer. When are they gonna fix all the exploits and hackers? They're as big of a poo stain as greater dragons/tamers in PvP. If you want to test your skills, try dueling. Field PvP anything goes, even a 'duel' in Yew isn't necessarily safe from an archer popping out of the shadows for the kill shot.

    I've played an archer dismount tamer. Loved it a lot, killed a lot, pissed a lot of people off. I no longer play that template as I've come to enjoy my archer/macer/ninja more and stay alive a lot easier. You just gotta know how to deal with a tamer. Even if you get dismounted you can get away from a pet. And personally I prefer a rune beetle/bake kitsune over a GD. I killed far more with that combo then I did with a GD.

    I don't care if they nerf GD's. However, that would make Doom and Peerless a little more a pain in the butt with a lesser pet. I don't want UO to become like EQ where its takes 20+ people to take down a high end mob and in return only get 3-4 decent items to ROLL for between those 20 people. You just gotta adapt your play style. GD's aren't the only thing in PvP that are f'd up. What about the cast time on Evil Omen? Pretty rediculous that someone can cast Exp/FS and get omen off before they hit allowing FS to do even more damage.

    Get used to the fact that some people don't care to use 'real' skill by using a mage in PvP. That's what Scripters/Speeders are doing. Not much skill involved in using a program that does a lot of the work for you. There's lots of gimp stuff in PvP. Para/Efield ftw...para ganking...create food fizzle specials ftw... Just face it... this game isn't what it used to be so we have to adapt. Don't expect any changes anytime soon, switch your template around, learn to kill a tamer, it's not that difficult.
     
  32. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    Sorry to disappoint you.. but no.. didn't go over my head and I do have a clear understanding how template/skills work. I don't think I mentioned adding peacemaking here.... however you can counter one set of pvp skills with other skills. Just that pvp'rs don't want to use those skills.

    So there are tactics which can be utilized instead. The smart pvp'r doesn't walk up to a tamer who is being guarded by a greater and start whacking away on them...a smart pvp'r knows if they are going to do something so stupid, not to cast greater heal.. a smart pvp'r knows how to attack a tamer being guarded with greater so as to separate tamer from greater... a smart pvp'r knows you can't stand toe to to with greater and win.. even if you don't want to change your template or bring a buddy peacer.. and especially if all you have is to insult those who don't agree with you.
     
  33. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

     
  34. Skwiz

    Skwiz Guest

     
  35. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    The problem with the Greater Dragon is that fighting it is like running a marathon. You spend most of your time trying to avoid fire breath and stay above 3/4 health. You need a lot of area to do this.

    So in an enclosed area the GD is WAY overpowered. The tamer can be easy to kill but that is not a given as everyone has been saying, they can be adept at keeping themselves alive.
     
  36. love2winalot

    love2winalot Guest

    Why would someone want to attack a player who has a GD, or some other high end well trained pet anyway?

    1. You will most likely die
    2. If you kill the pet, the owner can just rez it, and back to sq. one
    3. The pet has no loot.
    4. The pet owner does not need any good armor/weapons, ect to say All Kill
    5. And even if you did kill them both, what do you gain from it? Usually nothing, maybe a little insurance money.

    Would you attack a GD by yourself in a dungeon? Sometimes the smart thing to do is to just walk away.....:scholar:
     
  37. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    UGH! I just typed out a nice little thing and it went POOF! Okay ... I had the thought that perhaps instead of asking for caps and nerfs on GD specifically, we should as for improved pet AI. Casting/Firebreath only within x tiles (10? is that what it is for a mage?), FC/FCR cap for TAMED pets (even 3/6 or 4/6 might be enough to lower the chaining), and Line of Sight that follows same as for a player character - no more casting around corners!

    It might well be that if these things were done, things like firebreath and claw attack would no longer be a big deal.

    I still think there is something kooky with firebreath, since some people get hit way hard, and others never do and not all cases have shown obvious explanations.
     
  38. JoO

    JoO Seasoned Veteran
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    heal pots are your friend. Greater drags are why I carry a dragon slayer wep on my melees and a spellbook on my mages.
     
  39. BbqLou

    BbqLou Visitor

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    I just want to know why they put in two over powered pets, (dradmares, and Superdragons) after they finnaly fixed rune beetles so they don't do basically what greater dragons do now kill people in 2 seconds.

    I mean now the greater dragons have so much HP it takes 4 people to take it out usually. Not to mention they will pretty much red-line you if you get close to them.

    The only people who wouldn't want this nerf would either be tamers who pvp with just their tamer, or some one who doesn't even pvp, they just don't want their little dragon to be nerfed so they can't solo pretty much everything in the game.

    :loser::loser::loser::loser::loser::loser::loser::loser::loser::loser::loser::loser:


    their should be a new thread about this weekly, or just have one of the mods sticky one.
     
  40. BbqLou

    BbqLou Visitor

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    You must never leave yew gate to pvp :D
     
  41. BbqLou

    BbqLou Visitor

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    And people who defend the fact that the dragons are over powered by saying you can't mount when you have a dragon well....

    Tamer Bolas, ALL KILL, Target runs he is at half life, whew the target got the invis off he is out of site of the dragon BOOM here comes a fireball and an exp, DEAD.

    They should also fix the line of site of pets. How can a dragon firebreath me when im on the other side of a house.
     
  42. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    You are wrong. I have PvP'd using a GD ... and it was SOO not worth it and I hardly ever killed anyone unless the just flat sucked that bad. Screw that, GD's suck for PvP! However ... I really don't have an issue with them as-is other than the LoS thing. Rat-mages are more overpowered than GD imho (do those things have pack instict or what?! They are the freaking hack-casters of the game!) I use a dexer, primarily, to PvP and just never had much issue with the GD. I did go red killing a (non-faction) tamer AND her GD several times in a faction fight once, tho!
     
  43. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    QFT
     
  44. Shanna

    Shanna Guest

    IT's because Pvpers don't know the right tactics to get away from a greater dragon and kill a tamer. IT's so easy and yet they WHINE WHINE WHINE!

    What's tamable that isn't AI? And why do you not want to nerf? Lol :p

    I don't at all use a greater dragon in pvp. It's too slow and I'm on foot. F that. I just don't think Greater Dragons are that much a threat. Hell, when I use to use a DG in pvp, I outrun a rival's GD and lived.

    Yes, please!

    Can't earn gold using a tamer in pvp. Only if you use a personal attack such as your magery along with the pet. I can't fit eval on my peacer/tamer so no dough (I'm not the only one).

    THANK YOU!


    They are agruing and crying about it because they work SO hard on becoming good at what they do and yet they haven't the tactics to get rid of a GD.

    I really stopped paying much attention when you said this was about Siege. SIEGE HAS ITS OWN BOARD and UHall is about all things Ultima but Siege is a BIG minority. But you are right in your assessment, GD should only be a whine-fest on Siege. On prodo shards, I would just love to see a Siege ninja, archer, tamer sic his GD on me then run away in wolf form. I'd get any archers I could to come out and kill the dragon. Archers tear a dragon up with a quickness.
     
  45. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    I understand what you are saying here but I really wouldn't look for sympathy here. People like to have overpowered pets and the Dev's like to give them that. BTW Dev's...I would like to have a dagger or kryss that matches the greater dragon in power. You know,something along the lines of 50% hit fire breath,50% hit ebolt,50% hit explosion 2 second swing with base damage of 22-26 with unlimited durability...on and it must be blessed(bonded)
     
  46. ShadowJack

    ShadowJack Guest



    Someone with some sense.
     

  47. Wait, NO!!!!

    Log out of your dexxer so you can re login with your peacer and then get stuck, not being able to log back in for hours and hours!!!!!!!!!
     
  48. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Yep! The same people just won't let it drop :)

    :bdh:
     
  49. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    The fact is these Greater Dragons are overpowered.

    Eventually this will be fixed and there are going to be new threads about it daily until it is fixed.

    That's all there is to it. You can spew personal attacks all day long. Continue to call us whiners etc etc... That will just make the change come quicker.