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PVP Tamer

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by [JD], Dec 3, 2009.

  1. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    How effective are tamers in PVP, really?

    And what are some of the best tactics?

    I've started doing spawns in Fel on my Necro-Mage-Tamer and I've been splatted over and over again...

    I don't really care, but just ONCE, I would like to be able to beat them...

    Yuo would think that pets would be awesome in a fight with how strong they are, but in the times I've been PVP'd upon, they rush in, attack, kite pet away, rush in, attack, kite pet away..

    Somehow they always know where you are invised or manage to attack faster than you when you're trying to heal... I would like to know how

    I don't get it. I've seen gruops of 2 reds take down 6 players. I know they're more experienced, possibly running scripting, they have all the toys, all the 120's, and their +25 powerscrolls; but still, shouldn't I be able to at least get one to half life? Just once? LOL

    I've heard chain para can be good, but with PVPers having 120 resist how effective is that, really?

    Also I've heard a good combo: Corpse Skin, Strangle, Explosion, Flamestrike. Seems good, but again, usually I am on the defensive when I run into them while spawning.

    Anyway, this is NOT a ***** post - I would just really appreciate some solid PVP tamer advice so I can defend myself and maybe even get one now and again.

    Thanks from those of you who are tamers and PVP. :)
     
  2. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    It is a simple matter of using the pet effectively and picking the right pets.

    First, a PvPer on a mount is going to get away from your pet. Therefore, put the SOB on foot. Bola or otherwise.

    Chain para is nice but it isn't resist spells you should worry about but trapped boxes. From what I've seen, it is under 50% that a PvP has resist spells. Even then, if they are on foot, they stutter enough for a pet to chomp them.

    Evil omen para is a nice combo. It kills resist spells but does nothing for trapped boxes. Again, they still stutter.

    Pain spike spam is a nice tactic. But it is defeated by refresh pots.

    Strangle is another nice spell. It can interrupt mages. But it is nullified by apples.

    From a defensive standpoint, your "best bet" is to para field the hell out of an area and let your pet do their magic.

    Actual pet tactics is another story. There is choosing the type of pet and the stats. There is also maintaining the training on your pets.

    I can't help you on what type of pet to choose. From a PvP standpoint, there are 3 or 4 common pets in use: dread horse, bake, cu-side, and greater dragon.

    The stats are arguable. Some value stats, some resists, and some skills.

    Not arguable is keeping your pet fully trained. After a pet dies a few times, its skill degrade.
     
  3. carma234

    carma234 Guest

    Being a Necro-Tamer actually gives you a powerful combo in pvp.

    Pack of hell hounds and corpse skin hell hounds alone can chew into a player in just a few seconds if you throw corpse skin on them first all but the best will be dead before they can turn and run.

    That being said the dogs have many disadvantages in pvp, luring off and killing them individually as well as the issues you will have with control are just a couple of many difficulties you will face, but nothing is as satisfying as seeing them drop somebody before you can sick them on someone else.
     
  4. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Hmmm...after reading all the past posts whining about the need to nerf tamers in PvP I could have sworn that all you needed to do was say "all kill" and the shard would be yours to plunder. :)

    Sorry I don;t have anything constructive as the only character I can PvP effectively on is a ghost :)
     
  5. carma234

    carma234 Guest

    Well it's not really effective against any player who knows anything about pvp, but you can chew through the bad ones pretty quick.

    Having tested the hell hounds without necromancy i can honestly say that any good player will tear you a new one without breaking much of a sweat, but the bad ones will die the moment your done saying all kill.
     
  6. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    For the OP's case, I don't think spawning with 5 pack animals is gonna be a good move. If he were just out field fighting or gate fighting, pack might work.

    Also for the OP, ensure that your equipment is up to snuff. 45+ in DCI is a must for PvP. I think 70 is the magic number to be hit lower d proof. Getting all resists to 70 is also a must.
     
  7. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Hi Gang

    So far I haven't been out field PVP/hunting, when I am, perhaps a pack of hell hounds or ozzies might be the trick...

    However, the situation I most encounter is when I'm spawning or on my way to spawn, on foot, with a greater dragon. They usually get the drop on me/us because they're waiting there hidden to pounce. 90% of them have mostly been archers.

    They usually get the first shot on me, and a possible 2nd one by the time I have to react (remember I have mobs beating on dragon, I'm withering, etc). I'll invis and heal up but they're REALLY good about keeping me on the defensive where I'm constantly healing/curing/invising/pet commanding and I never really get to the point where I can attack...

    If I got attacked and began to lay down para fields I'd just be dead by the time the 2nd one hit the ground from ignoring my health bar going down...

    I'm not an archer so I don't have a bola. I can't spawn with a pack of hellhounds.

    Has the game devolved that anyone who PVPs needs to be an archer? They were stupidly powerful 10 years ago when I quit, and seem to have remained how shall we say - extremely viable?

    Thanks for any PVP tactics to assist me in the scenario I outlined.
     
  8. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    bolas can be used by anyone. You need to be on foot and have a hand free. Corpse skin should help your pets firebreath attack. Stay on one target, stay near your pet.
     
  9. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
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    Anyone can use a bola.
     
  10. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    Anyone... oh wait, said a few times:mf_prop:

    What about your equipment? Is it up to snuff? As I said, 45+ DCI is a must. All 70 resist is a must. Having a defense "skill" is a must(ie a mage weapon in your case)

    As a PvPer, they can do some combos you won't have a chance against even prepared.

    Are you using pots? How about orange petals? If no to either, start.

    On the para fields, I wouldn't wait until you are attacked. Since you have done a few spawns, you can "get a feel" for when an attack is coming usually. Try to start laying fields before then.

    How about your dragon stats? Rumor has it they can have more than 120 resist:eyes:

    Are you trying to solo spawn? If so, don't expect to live through 2+ people attacking. If not, team up and stay on the same screen.

    Lastly, if you or someone you are spawning with has a second account and computer, leave a hidden scout at the most likely ways to get to your spawn. Ex: for despise, I'd leave a scout in the mages at the fire dungeon teleporters. Sure there is another teleporter and the top of the dungeon but PvPers rarely take those unless they are trying to surprise a "superior" opponent.
     
  11. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Hey all,

    Ok forgot to answer some of your questions:

    My EQ was "OK", but some guildies helped me with very nice barbed leather pieces last night so my suit is now perfect. Im 70/70/70/70/75(elf) in all resists. I have 37 SDI (15% PVP cap tho).

    My skills are: 114.x Mage (with Grimoire), 100 EI, 40 Med (Training it down), 72 Necro, 78 SS (Training them up), Animal Taming 82.1 (Training it up, using item boosts currently), 110 Lore (Can drop some points if I find appropriate boosts in equipment), 104.x Vet (Can drop some points if I find appropriate boosts in equipment)

    Dragon is good, but I've never had anyone try to KILL the dragon, they just kite it away, or ignore it.

    **To answer your DCI question, I have 25 DCI but my understanding is that DCI doesn't matter unless you're holding a weapon, and I run with a Conjurer's Grimoire for the +15 Magery, Low Mana, Spell Dmg Increase. So are you advising to get a -0 Mage Weapon and load up on DCI? My suit doesn't allow for more than 25 right now. Also I have never been tank-melee-PK'd, it's only been archers. Does DCI help with archers?

    I don't have a 2nd account tho a lookout spy would be nice.

    Mostly I duo or have up to 3-4 guildies total knocking a spawn out. We're running around solo clearing spawn and then we gather at the Altar.

    I don't have or use pots or petals. I don't think I can get the petals without being a longtime player as a reward tho? What are the best pots you can recommend? Greater Heal, some sort of cure, some sort of mana potion?

    **Regarding EI, I know it will make my nukes stronger. But does it raise Greater Heal, field duration, or EV damage?

    thanks
     
  12. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    You gotta have a weapon skill at 120 or you will be eaten alive by any type of dexxer. Fel mostly has archers because it is a ranged attack, meaning you don't need to be on the square right beside someone to hit them. Basically with your template I would put 100 magery real skill and then go to 120 with items, you must carry a -0 Mage weapon like swords of prosper, staff of magi, staff of pyros, and your dci needs to be at least 60. Everyone in fel has hit lower defense, and you will more than likely not survive 3 archers if you are on foot. Your template is extremely effective in a group setting and pvm. Most pvp tamers are dread mare archers/ mages or stealth assassin greater dragon tamers.
     
  13. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    if i have higher amounts of DCI when archer(s) attack, what happens - do i not get interrupted? do they miss? do i take less damage?

    lastly how does one cure mortal-something? it turned my health bar yellow and i couldn't heal any more. had a really good 3 minute fight with an experienced red archer but he got me after landing that and i was outta power.

    also i bought some bolas. :)

    thanks
     
  14. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    There in lies your problem. You have NO melee defense and the archers are hitting you every time. DCI does help even without having a skill. But it is MUCH better to have either mage weapon or actual skill(wrestle, eval/anat, melee skill)

    Basically, DCI and melee skill prevent you from getting hit. If you aren't getting hit, your spells aren't getting interupted.

    Related to spells: cast regular heals and not greater heals. Very often, you will get small heals off while greater heals will get interrupted.

    The "problem" I see with your template is you are trying to do too much and are loaded up with skill jewelry. Thus, you are unable to get things like DCI onto your suit or use spell channel weapon.

    On taming related skills, unless you are going out to tame all the time, 110 in both tame and lore will control anything(at least that is my understanding) On vet, while it would be nice to rez everytime you put a bandaid, I'd be inclined to run 90 vet.

    On the necro, what are you "really" using it for? Wraith form? Wither? What I've found is on my spawn necro, I was using EQ more than wither. If it is just wraith form, I'd go with around 60 necro and drop SS for defensive skill.

    I don't recall the method to remove mortal, but it is possible.(apples:confused: )

    In an ideal world, you'd run natural 120 magery, +20 magery jewelry, and use a one handed -20 mage weapon with huge DCI bonus. Thus you get DCI bonus, defense bonus, and you get to use pots:thumbup1:
     
  15. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    Having dci at 65 will mean they will hit you 50% of the time. You must have a Mage weapon equipped and your magery must be 120 for this equation to be valid. There are other ways to get to being only hit 50% of the time. For your template it is the easiest(best) way to do it. Enchanted Apples or actively using spirit speak will remove a mortal strike(yellow bar).
     
  16. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Gellor/Capt, thanks for the replies

    First off I'll work on finding a 1H Mage weapon with DCI and Spell Channeling. All the nice ones are 2h though... I'd prefer to keep my shield with 15 DCI.

    Gellor, I use a ton of things in necro:
    -Wither for spawns
    -Blood Oath for Archers (I've been informed I should do this but haven't yet)
    -Lich for mana regen (since I dumped Med) after resurrections or in "Chain heal the pet" situations
    -Wraith for spawns
    -Raise dead (When farming)
    -I've been told I should play with Poison spike, strangle, and poison strike

    I've also been told I should look into the smaller, quicker heals - I'll check it out.

    I'll probably develop a PVP set of jewelry which gives me exactly 110 taming/lore and a seperate set, used for actual taming. Good point on the vet, I dont know how much hp less I'll vet between 105 and 90, but it cant be much right? And even at 105 vet I still fail on ressing a pet.

    Lastly when you say use Spirit Speak against mortal strike, do I just hit the SS hotkey and it cures it? Or is something else involved? If thats all thats required I feel like a dope, since an archer hit me with Mortal today and I couldnt heal so I kited him in circles around my GD... when I COULD have healed myself... haha

    thanks again
     
  17. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    Yes, use skill( spirit speak) is all it takes

    There is a hit chance calculator buried on stratics somewhere, but you effectively have 99 weapon skill. That's not good. I know at 115 you get hit about 60 percent of the time. While it doesn't look bad on paper, it's really bad in felucca. Good luck :D
     
  18. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Hey gang,

    I had an annoying PVP experience today and was hoping for some insight...

    So we were in Fel Paupau on our way to a spawn when the red in our guild got attacked. Naturally I healed, became Grey, and same happened to others. Paupau temporarily turned into a warzone as various PK guilds ported in and joined the fray.

    At one point a different guildie had 4 people on him and a lesser hiryu. He asked in vent to sick the Rune Beetle and Mare on the hiryu. I used my special attack macro which does a Pet STOP and Pet KILL in one key. I targeted the Hiryu and they began following it...

    What was annoying was that although the hiryu and the other players chased my guildie away at HORSE speed, my stupid beetle and mare followed at what seemed like RUNNING, non mounted speed... in any case they did not follow at the same pace.

    Eventually their target got too far away and they just resumed following me. I was on foot when this happened.

    Also, when I was mounted on the mare and told the rune beetle to attack someone it was retardedly running around at much slower than horse mounted speed..

    I'd feed it and it would speed up, but one or two commands after and it would slow down again.

    The pets were totally useless/ineffective and a waste of skillpoints for that PVP encounter.

    My effective taming/Lore while this was going on is 114/110 so it was not a control issue, I wasn't being disobeyed, the pets were just plain being useless/******** and slow...

    The Rune Beetle was fully trained, the Mare was not, but training has no effect on movement speed, which was THE issue. Also for whatever reason they didn't seem to cast either, but again, everything could have just always been out of range because they were moving so slow.

    I gave up and dished out Explode/Flamestrike combos, but I'm not really built to be the nukemaster so that went.. so-so.

    Can anyone give insight into wtf was going on and how to prevent this in the future?

    Thanks
     
  19. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Your pets will never catch someone who is mounted. You either need to paralize them, dismount them, or nerve strike them.

    Easiest template in game to PvP with is as follows:

    120 archery
    120 tactics
    110 taming
    110 lore
    110 resist or bush or vet
    80 chivalry
    70 med

    Use a heavy x-bow and a dread mare. Macros are as follows:

    F1 - Dismount and say "all kill"
    F2 - Use special (secondary) and last target
    F3 - Use special (primary)
    F4 - Re-mount

    Tactic is as follows:

    F1. Target someone. F2 (dismount). F3 (moving shot). When the target dies (2-3 steps), F4.
     
  20. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    thanks. i might stone off necro for archery if i get into more serious pvp and try that out. but what bothers me is that the hiryu which was chasing my friend WAS chasing him at enough speed to catch up and keep up with the mounted players following him. yet my rune beetle would not!

    havent you ever seen where your pet follows at some ******** walking, or half speed... and then you feed it, tell it follow, and it follows MUCH faster?

    that was going on...

    whats the chiv do for you? can it be used to heal pets at a peerless/spawn? is it effective

    the archer/tamer sounds fun.. i cant get my hands on a dread mare tho unless someone on sonoma is nice enough to let me have or sell me one (i dont really have much money lol)
     
  21. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Well, my archer/tamer is a PvM character - hence, chivalry (EOO, consecrate, divine fury, etc.). He just happens to be a scary in PvP, too.

    I use 4/6 fc/fcr, which allows me to reliably use chivalry for healing, curing, and remove curse. You can also heal your pet with chivalry, in addition to vet.

    Some folks go archer/mage/tamer, but I prefer chiv. Makes my archery more damaging in PvM. Plus, I'm not limited to spell channeling bows.
     
  22. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

  23. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Question about this template...

    No Anatomy or healing?

    Why does it need meditation - for mana w/Archery weapon specials?

    Is 80 Chiv enough for chain healing when doing peerless with friends? (Since mostly you can't Vet due to area effects which cause you to get aggro) - And how much is the max Chiv can heal

    Thanks
     
  24. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Nope. I rely on chivalry for healing. With a balanced bow, you could also use pots. I've done most peerless and champs in the game with this template. The meditation ensures that you don't run out of mana for chiv heals/cures. :thumbup1:
     
  25. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    Gimp template of course , but Cu Sidhes > Dreadmares
     
  26. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    My cu is just so slow. Maybe I need a pre-patch! :thumbup:
     
  27. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    I’ve never used Chiv before, so which spells would you use at 80 Chiv?

    I assume trained stats (w/ Powerscroll) would resemble those of an archer? Something like 125 dex, 100 Str, 25 Int, plus items?

    You don’t require Low Reagent Cost for this I’m assuming – Chiv uses Tithe points.

    If I add Low Mana Cost, Mana Regen, + Mana type stuff how high do I really need to take Meditation and Int?

    I’ve got a Stealth Archer and a Tamer, I’m considering using some Soulstones to swap skills around and end up with this toon just to play with it. And if I like it I can make a new toon and build from scratch if I like.

    Here’s what I’m envisioning, spec wise. It’s tied to items (rings) however I’m working an imbuer so I don’t see that as a problem; I can re-tool as necessary; the jewelry is not going to be too expensive.

    Archer/Tamer core template:

    110 Taming (84 trained, +26 from jewelry)
    110 Lore (84 trained, +26 from jewelry)
    80 Vet (Swap on +Vet item when I need to res pet)
    120 Archery (100 trained, +20 from Hunters’)
    110 Tactics
    80 Chiv (54 trained, +26 from items)

    This leaves me with 188 pts to play around with. I could:

    * Add Meditation and resist spells.
    * Add Stealth/hiding (but I’d have low Med, and thus my question regarding mana regen/low mana items)
    * Add meditation and NINJITSU. How fun would it be to be in bake kitsune form with 2 bake kitsune pets, all 3 named “A bake kitsune”. It’d be pretty damn confusing to anyone without the visual cues.

    No dread mare here, I’ve tried to find one on Sonoma for months. They just aren’t for sale. I wasn’t doing the ninjitsu bake kitsune thing I’d use a mare and rune beetle, or a Cu Sidhe. I looked at Reptalons they just appear too weak compared to a Cu..

    Thanks for your thoughts/tweaks on this, the Stealth/Hiding and Meditation/ninjitsu combos seem the most fun/attractive to me :)
     
  28. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I didn't read the entire thread carefully, so if I am simply repeating anything that has already been said, please forgive me. Here are some lessons I have learnt over the years.

    1. Pvp combat is not easy, especially if you are fighting players that know what they are doing. In my opinion tamer templates are more challenging to play well than any of the other common pvp templates, no matter what you may read on these forums, or in game. If you want to become a successful pvp tamer, it will take a significant investment in time and gold.

    2. The first thing you need to do is choose your basic template. There are two basic pvp tamer template types. The first, by far most common and successful one, is a template where the taming is included to allow the use a durable mount that can augment the damage output of the character in pvp, however the primary damage output is provided by the primary template choice, which can be divided as follows: dexxer, archer, or mage (I include all forms of magery in this general category).

    The second type of pvp tamer template is not as successful, and is most commonly used by characters who aren't as experienced in pvp. In this pvp tamer template type the pet provides the primary damage output, while the secondary template choice is used to provide support in terms of healing for both the character and the pets. Both template types can be very successful in pvp, but they both require a lot of preparation and experience to be successful, and in my opinion the second template type is more difficult to play well, and requires more preparation.

    3. Once you've chosen your basic template you need to build your character, and equip yourself properly. I won't go into that because there are plenty of threads on the various templates, and even lots of good advice in this thread. But the very basics are, you need good defence and good offence, you need to know the terrain you are fighting on and you need mobility and the ability to heal, cure, and remove curses, both for yourself and your pets if they will be providing the primary damage output.

    4. Every pvp character should have some form of GM or better weapon skill, with at least 45 dci. That weapon skill can be in the form of an actual weapon skill, or in the form of a mage weapon combined with magery.

    5. If you are a pvp tamer you need to choose the right weapons, and that includes your pet. Mobility is a must, just about any of the more powerful pets can be effective in pvp, but you need to learn the tactics, and the character build that will work with them. For example, a greater dragon can be effective in pvp, but mobility is a must, so in my opinion, you either need ninjitsu, or you need to be a gargoyle.

    6. One thing you must do as a tamer, and this is one of the main reasons why playing a pvp tamer is so challenging, is you need to keep your pet close to you, and in your control as much as possible. A pet out of sight is most generally a dead pet, and even if it doesn't die, it won't generally be helping you much if you don't know what it is doing. Always carry a pet ball for each pet. You need to control your pet, in addition to playing your primary or secondary template choice effectively. Doing those two things at the same time is what makes playing a pvp tamer so challenging.

    7. The last thing I will tell you for now is that how you set up your key binds, and how well you remember and use them is perhaps the single more important element to pvp'ing effectively, regardless of template. You need to acquire targets quickly, and efficiently, and you need to have all the important abilities of your character with keybinds and macros set up in such a way that you can access them as close to instantly as possible. To be truly successful you need to be able to instantly access all the important abilities of your character, while moving at top speed. That's what separates the great pvp'rs from the simply good ones.

    I could give you lots more advice, but I have other things to do right now, and this is probably more than enough to chew on for now. Happy hunting! ;)
     
  29. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    Great Post!!!!!! This sums up everything to a T. :ten:
     
  30. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    And if this hasn't been said, every pvp'r should carry a trapped box. In fact you simply shouldn't go to Felucca without one, even if you don't intend on pvp'ing. And it needs to be on a one button macro.