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Question about 2d and 3d client (enhanced client)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by tarugobr, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. tarugobr

    tarugobr Guest

    is there any difference between the 2d and 3d client when talking about running/moving speed?
    what i mean is that other day i saw a guy jumping on my screen and im not sure if he was using 2d or 3d client (someone told me 3d client would run faster than 2d)
    could anyone confirm that please. does 3d client really allows me to runs faster than 2d?

    or maybe it was just a lag issue
     
  2. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    No, there definitely is no difference concerning speed. The only difference is that the EC navigates you automatically around obstacles, whereas in the Classic Client you have to do that manually.
     
  3. Ls Jax Ls

    Ls Jax Ls Visitor

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    So what you're saying is, EC is faster. :lol:
     
  4. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    i heard this same rumor from someone i know who has never played in the ec. i don't know how it got started or why people are perpetuating rumors when they've never used the client. its pretty easy to find out - just download it and try it yourself.

    ive played in the ec for a year now, ec has no speed advantage. in fact, if your computer is not up to spec, EC will give you a speed DISadvantage. it takes better hardware to run than the classic client. i was forced into a video card upgrade recently to make it run better. works great now.

    what the EC does have is a lot of nice features which should have been in the classic to begin with. features like custom macros, mods that tell you an items weight by looking at it, and my favorite is the grid view backpack so everything isnt piled on top of each other in a gigantic mess.
     
  5. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    EC does allow you to auto navigate around obstacles, but like what everyone says, EC does not allow you to move any faster.


    The zipping around thing is due to a large discrepancy in lag.

    If you play via a slow connection and ping 400+, this happens a lot.

    If you ping 100ish, and still see this happening, something fishy is likely going on.
     
  6. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    It is very perceptive of you to mention lag.

    The cap on movement speed is the same for both clients, however, the two clients handle lag differently. With the classic (2d) client when you lag you actually move slower, and it is very sensitive to lag. It only takes very minor lag to slow you down in the classic client, and it is often so subtle that they person experiencing the lag in the classic client won't even realize it is happening.

    The enhanced (3d) client handles lag much better. When you do lag, you will notice it instantly because you don't slow down, you just momentarily stop, but you have to be experiencing serious lag before that will happen.

    When you combine that with the fact that you have auto avoid for objects in every direction with the enhanced client, a person using the enhanced client will win a race nine times out of ten against a player using the classic client, but not because the enhanced client actually allows you to move any faster.
     
  7. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Regarding performance issues, depending on your system specs, EC may perform better or worse than the CC.


    Depends on whether your PC is optimized for 2D graphics. It may come as a surprise, but a lot of the new graphic cards have terrible 2D performance.

    That's one of the main reasons why there are players with brand new top of the line gaming PCs that handles FPS games without problems but have terrible performance with the CC.
     
  8. tarugobr

    tarugobr Guest

    thank you guys
    and what about auto dress. does 3d client have any delay on moving itens like 2d or it just moves everything from my bag to body in a milisecond?
     
  9. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    The second one, UOAssist dress did it item by item IIRC, EC is everything instantly.
     
  10. canary

    canary Guest

    I often go back to the EC, just to keep my toes wet with it, and I always FEEL like I'm moving faster in the EC. But that's just my personal perception... I've obviously never tried any tests. I know others have stated they have, however.
     
  11. Korik Bloodguard

    Korik Bloodguard Lore Keeper
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    This is something which you should consider putting in the UOGuide wiki, it's a really nice analysis.
     
  12. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Actually reading a post in another thread reminded me of something else. There are no tombstones in the enhanced client in Felucca, and you can move through the tiles that have them. I've been accused of cheating a number of times over that one. So yes, even though your top speed in the enhanced client is the same as it is in the classic client, there are some clear movement advantages with the EC.
     
  13. canary

    canary Guest

    Odd, I never really noticed that... it would make a big difference.
     
  14. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Last I knew, there was another difference between movement in the two clients, that no one seems to have mentioned.
    In the CC, changing direction counts as a movement. If you run diagonally through a forest, you'll notice a slight pause every time you change direction (this may be based of movement rate, so it might be more apparent on foot).
    In the EC, you just change direction, without any pause.

    That thing where you spin on the spot in the CC, hold the right mouse button in the CC, and move the mouse quickly in a circle. Last I tried anything like that, it didn't work in the EC.
     
  15. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I can run faster than people on CC in a straight line without any objects on EC, if i run NW to SE or SW to NE visa versa, which accounts for half of all movement.

    Anyone who's tried chasing someone on EC in the lost lands where there are v few objects will tell you it's not just the auto navigation around objects that makes it faster.
     
  16. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I've never noticed that, and I've been chased in just about every direction, many many times. What I see is someone moving at the same speed as I do for a short while, in any direction, and then I lose them, which tells me they have experienced some form of lag.
     
  17. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I'm sure there must be a way to actually factually test this, set a character to always run, record the mouse movement and run to a certain destination from one side of lost lands to other, play the recorded mouse movement in CC client again with always run selected.

    Anyone done this and come up with actual facts of the time it takes?
     
  18. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    ec is super nice for one keypress dress macros, change weapons and choose a special, automatic honor and attack, 1 press pvp dismounts (human/elf only- garg doesnt work), and much more...

    people would rather pay 15 bucks for uo assist and stay in the cc, so they're missing out :D
     
  19. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    off topic
     
  20. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I have run the clients side by side and on separate comps and tried running side by side with friends because I thought their was something funny !
    I found they are the same because of the graphics difference it appears one is faster than the other !

    In all the runs i did If i had to say one was slower (and I dont really) it would be the EC because of the way the graphics make it look!

    This is from my observations and actual tests although I did not do it in T2A others may get slightly different results
    This was done running in straight lines in brit bank area and running the circuit around britain and other areas !

    if people are seeing a big difference the only thing I can think of is maybe its the way their machine handles graphics data!
     
  21. canary

    canary Guest

    Ehn, the way the game world 'waves' as you run. The lack of polish in the client (although there are some awesome mods out there!) along with the still in game KR leftovers (including paperdolls) that make the EC a deal breaker for me.

    I've noticed 'graphics' tend to be a sore spot with most. I'm still surprised that Cal has not dedicated any more budget to replacing the current art team or investing in more artists to get it to a point most are OK with it.
     
  22. tarugobr

    tarugobr Guest

    thats the same conclusion i had after testing for a while
    for me EC seems to have a lil advantage while changing direction when running
    im not really sure about it, cause i couldnt record any video or find any other info about that in any other place on the net

    did anyone here ever noticed that moving advantage while changing character direction?

    btw i dont believe EA would make an EC that has an advantage like that in comparison with the classic one, since most of the loyal uo players are veterans (who strongly prefer 2d ultima)
    anyone agree?
     
  23. canary

    canary Guest

    No. There is a reason it is called the enhanced client. It has a few bells and whistles the classic one doesn't have.
     
  24. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    Just to clarify something here ... you dont run in the enhanced client... you ice skate.
     
  25. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    There are plenty of clear advantages to using the enhanced client, and a lot of veterans are switching to it, especially due to the fact that it has become clear that some of the real advantages the classic client had over the enhanced client are now detrimental to the accessibility of your account...
     
  26. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    um, whut?
     
  27. Mervyn

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    Not good enough, anyone have hard facts?
     
  28. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    so you have hard facts please post em
     
  29. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Nothing you could possibly post in a forum would stand up in a court of law. This medium doesn't allow for that. Even screen shots and videos can be doctored.

    Storm's observations are correct. You need a decent system to run the EC, or you will have issues with lag. It doesn't need to be a great system, but anything built within the past couple of years that doesn't use integrated video should do the trick.

    I know from a lot of experience that running in a straight line with no obstacles and no lag in any direction the EC and the CC have the same top speed, however Kiminality's observation may indeed be correct. I turn faster than just about anyone because I use a thumb joystick to control my movement, so I couldn't tell you whether Kiminality's observation is accurate or not.
     
  30. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    Just did a little test myself:

    [YOUTUBE]Z71-TMRd-yM[/YOUTUBE]

    On the same connection, Blue char is EC, Red 2d. We didn't start exactly at the same but they remain 2-3 tiles apart, No real difference in it imo.

    Oh and I did try record the 2d PC too, But Fraps didn't detect 2d, Typical. rolleyes:
     
  31. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    That's exactly what I have seen in dozens of similar situations.
     
  32. tarugobr

    tarugobr Guest

    the great difference may be due to changing directions like me and Kiminality tryed to explain
    i couldnt see any difference on running on a straight line also
     
  33. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    In my opinion the great differences are in the way each client handles lag, and the auto avoid for objects that the enhanced client has. It also appears that the enhanced client crosses server boundaries with less of a lag than the classic client.
     
  34. I think this depends on your connection speed. I ping about 175ms and get significant server boundary lag with both clients. Very annoying doing T-Maps in Bucs Den.
     
  35. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    You may be right, but the reason why I say this is I ping about 60 to Catskills, which is above what most of those who have good connections ping these days, and I almost always lose those chasing me at server boundaries. If I don't lose them in the trees, I will invariably lose them when I cross a server boundary. And I recently downgraded from a 10mb connection to a 3mb connection, and the same thing still happens, so I don't think it has anything to do with bandwidth either.
     
  36. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    ok if nobody can provide facts, can anyone provide any figures?

    In mappers video i notice the characters were moving, south to north, and not SE to NE which i think makes a difference in EC, not sure though, also it was indeed a straight line only, no curvature at all. (i'm not saying there should be objects, just run around a mountain or something)

    It seems to me that if you can indeed turn faster in the EC, then this is not just a small advantage, as how often do people really run in an absolute straight line?

    So in real terms, the EC running speed is an awful lot faster than CC
     
  37. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    If i had to choose a client that runs faster for me it would be CC (moving speed) and when i hit server boundries the CC handles them faster than the EC !
    so this makes me feel it is the way the video card is handling the data!
     
  38. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    That's just your judgement in a non competitive environment, i know when i play on EC i can catch up and run infront of other players.
     
  39. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    I ran an Ilshenar naked race last year, 1st and 3rd place were 2d users, I really don't see a benefit except the automatic moving around objects. Certainly not an advantage as you describe of being able to run ahead of other players.
     
  40. Mervyn

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    was that on foot? i don't think the movement issues apply on foot, or do they?
     
  41. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    That was mounted and with gargoyals flying.
     
  42. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    lol you are entitled to your opinion ! But you have no idea what i do or dont so stop making things up!

    I know many many others who's opinions I value much more than yours some who have posted in this thread ! these are people I see all the time testing things and retesting but no matter what I say or anyone else you will disagree !
     
  43. Mervyn

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    I thought the general consensus in this thread was that EC and CC are the same speed, if you move in an exact straight line, someone elses pointed out there is no delay in EC if you turn, which there is in CC.

    Who have i disagreed with exactly?
     
  44. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Based on my experience I'd say this isn't the case, and if it is, it doesn't make much of a difference. The real differences are those that have already been explained: auto-avoid for obstacles, handles latency and network instability better, moves through server boundaries with faster load times. All of these of course assume that you have hardware that runs the EC well.
     
  45. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I think everyone is underestimating the effect this has, i wouldn't force every red dexxer in my guild to convert to EC if it was having no effect. And i wouldn't log on to EC in lost lands to catch running blues if it didn't work.
     
  46. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    When i move and change directions in the EC it pauses for me almost every time the cc does not ! now on my sons computer its different This is why i am almost positive its the way the video cards are interpreting the data from cc and EC !
    or it could be as stated the connection !
    Not saying you are not seeing something different !
    But because I dont see what you do you say things like
    "Not good enough, anyone have hard facts?"
    Not going to argue about it ! I respect what you think you see and I know what I think I see!
    and as for flying thats even worse for me its all stop and go in the EC in CC its np I wish i could get fraps to work right I would show you what I see!
     
  47. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    ok perhaps i should've said figures, instead of facts