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Question about event arc going on..

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kurgan, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. Kurgan

    Kurgan Guest

    In a post I read, Draconi said this arc is going on the line's of Ultima 5 Warriors of Destiny. Just curious how this could be. As in Ultima 5 Lord Blackthorn is corrupted by the Shadowlords.. But since Lord Blackthorn is already dead... Will they be bringing him back?
    Going along Ultima lore. Lord Blackthorn did not really die until Ultima 9 at the hands of Lord British in the Great Stygian Abyss.
    And yes Draconi:
    What about those missing Virtues.. How could we be going along the lines of Ultima 5. When we have not finished the ULtima 4 Lore yet?
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You mean there is a story line to be followed? I always thought they did what they did to nerf my profession one byte at a time. Go figure...la
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Going along Ultima lore. Lord Blackthorn did not really die until Ultima 9 at the hands of Lord British in the Great Stygian Abyss.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Depends on the lore you're going on... Blackthorn was to be revealed as dead as of Serpent Isle before it got cut back for time restraints. Also, LB was to just execute him normally for his crimes before they changed the U9 plot.

    Anyway, it could still be done... while it wouldn't be a direct copy, it doesn't necessarily have to be the king and regent that are taken out of commission and controlled.. it could easily be.. oh.. say.. the court mage and several members of the ruling council, seeing as they fill those roles currently in UO.. *hint hint*.
     
  4. Yenji Yasagari

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    I would punch every virtue in the face.
     
  5. why do you compare ultima online to the old (standalone)ultima ?
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    why do you compare ultima online to the old (standalone)ultima ?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Because it's still Ultima at its core.. yeah it's been dulled over the years, but it's still there.
     
  7. We have to remember that the shards history can be different than the cardinal ultima lore. The general outline is a good touch, I think, but even that wouldn't have to be followed. Each shard is an alternate world. Each facet even?
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    [​IMG]

    Uh, excuse me , I do believe in episode 29 the incarnation of all that is lengthy and overrated, the hero was supposed to progress through the event arc, and according to my calculations the endless battle for moonglow has continued far too long.
     
  9. prison bound

    prison bound Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    [​IMG]

    Uh, excuse me , I do believe in episode 29 the incarnation of all that is lengthy and overrated, the hero was supposed to progress through the event arc, and according to my calculations the endless battle for moonglow has continued far too long.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    nice
     
  10. The event arc relays events SIMILAR to Ultima 5.

    This is not the same as saying we're playing through the EXACT events of U5.

    What they basically mean is, we'll have Shadowlords, and we'll (presumably) have corruption of the Virtues and the political system set up to support them. (Hence that stuff on UO.com about civil wars and Britannia being torn apart.)

    But, hey, Blackthorn might come back too for all we know.

    But I wouldn't bet on it.

    Remember.....For those of us who like to follow the official fiction to every extent practical, each shard of UO is in an entirely separate timeline. We splintered off from the single-player games after Mondain bit it.

    What we've seen since then, instead of an EXACT replay of the single-player games, is the replication of certain concepts, issues, and events from those games.

    -Galen's player
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    As many others have already mentioned, Ultima Online follows a similar (although moderately different) timeline than the "canon" Ultima Universe. There is no avatar, many of the early villians have actually survived all these many years, and events have progressed in a slightly different pattern. The "Blackthornes Revenge" storyarc was also very similar to Ultima V, except they chose to have Exodus corrupt Lord Blackthorne rather than the Shadowlords, who probably hadn't emerged yet. This "Warriors of Destiny" Scenario has had hints of influence from Ultima VIII: Pagan, and not just Ultima V.

    With Blackthorne dead, the Shadowlords would have to find a new lackey, such as... *cough, cough* ...Lord Francesco?

    *Runs and hides from the Royal Britannian Guard*
     
  12. <blockquote><hr>

    As many others have already mentioned, Ultima Online follows a similar (although moderately different) timeline than the "canon" Ultima Universe. There is no avatar, many of the early villians have actually survived all these many years, and events have progressed in a slightly different pattern. The "Blackthornes Revenge" storyarc was also very similar to Ultima V, except they chose to have Exodus corrupt Lord Blackthorne rather than the Shadowlords, who probably hadn't emerged yet. This "Warriors of Destiny" Scenario has had hints of influence from Ultima VIII: Pagan, and not just Ultima V.

    With Blackthorne dead, the Shadowlords would have to find a new lackey, such as... *cough, cough* ...Lord Francesco?

    *Runs and hides from the Royal Britannian Guard*

    [/ QUOTE ]

    One correction.....There IS an Avatar, we just don't get to meet him.

    This is the stranger who killed Mondain, who to the people within UO is a kind of absent Christ-figure, representing their moral system (the Virtues).

    Kind of like we read the Virtues INTO the Stranger, rather than the Stranger going through the Quest of the Avatar and ABSORBING the Virtues.

    Interesting actually.

    Hmm.

    Oh, Dear God, it's gonna turn out that the "stranger" our characters thought was the Avatar for all these years is actually one of the Shadowlords or something....

    Just kidding.

    Maybe?

    -Galen's player
     
  13. Masuri

    Masuri Seasoned Veteran
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    <blockquote><hr>

    Uh, excuse me , I do believe in episode 29 the incarnation of all that is lengthy and overrated, the hero was supposed to progress through the event arc, and according to my calculations the endless battle for moonglow has continued far too long.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    yes please [​IMG]
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Oh, Dear God, it's gonna turn out that the "stranger" our characters thought was the Avatar for all these years is actually one of the Shadowlords or something....

    [/ QUOTE ]No, no, no. The Avatar is Kirk Douglas. My mother said so when I first played the movie for her eight-some years ago. Mom knows best.
     
  15. <blockquote><hr>


    One correction.....There IS an Avatar, we just don't get to meet him.

    This is the stranger who killed Mondain, who to the people within UO is a kind of absent Christ-figure, representing their moral system (the Virtues).


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Actually, if you want to be pedantic, the Stranger From Another World didn't become the Avatar until he achieved enlightenment and a special quest title from The Codex of Game-breaking Wisdom and/or Lord British. Before then, he was just another one of us larcenous, murderous hero folk--which makes the practice of pretending he was particularly virtuous particularly amusing to me.
     
  16. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>


    One correction.....There IS an Avatar, we just don't get to meet him.

    This is the stranger who killed Mondain, who to the people within UO is a kind of absent Christ-figure, representing their moral system (the Virtues).


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Actually, if you want to be pedantic, the Stranger From Another World didn't become the Avatar until he achieved enlightenment and a special quest title from The Codex of Game-breaking Wisdom and/or Lord British. Before then, he was just another one of us larcenous, murderous hero folk--which makes the practice of pretending he was particularly virtuous particularly amusing to me.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Umm....As far as I can tell, no.

    This is in the SINGLE-player game, when the stranger who killed Mondain was...Well, just the stranger who killed Mondain until U4.

    Actually let me back up some.....It's possible that you're actually right, and that in UO, the Avatar is not, in fact, the Avatar.

    However, my impression is that in the world of UO, we properly refer to "the stranger" as "the Avatar" despite the fact that the events of U4 haven't happened....First of all, we have The Virtues, which weren't in the Ultima series at all until U4, but ARE in UO.

    Secondly, there's a few references on UO.com that I think support my argument.

    Here: http://www.uo.com/guide/renaissance.pdf (UO:R playguide). (I didn't know the TB Faction was trying to summon the Avatar, did you?)

    And here: http://www.uo.com/spot_56.html (some story or other).

    *shrugs*

    Either way....The point of course is that the UO fiction and the Ultima single-player fiction don't always exactly follow one another in lockstep, as well they should not.

    -Galen's player
     
  17. <blockquote><hr>


    However, my impression is that in the world of UO, we properly refer to "the stranger" as "the Avatar" despite the fact that the events of U4 haven't happened....First of all, we have The Virtues, which weren't in the Ultima series at all until U4, but ARE in UO.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Actually, I'm more concerned with what the Avatar/Stranger represents than the issue of nomenclature. My understanding is that UO represents a divergence from the single-player series, but remains derived from them. For Britannia Prime, we're perfectly justified in saying the Avatar represents Virtue--after all, the events of Ultima IV have happened in the universe outside the shards. From inside the shards, events diverged before the Stranger became known as a proponent of Virtue--though now that The Shattering is public knowledge, the Council of Mages knows of a (Virtuous) Avatar, and the Time Lord is intervening more directly, I expect this to change.

    That said, I'm perfectly willing to allow that the distinction between Stranger and virtuous Avatar has become all but lost among the player base.

    <blockquote><hr>


    Secondly, there's a few references on UO.com that I think support my argument.

    Here: http://www.uo.com/guide/renaissance.pdf (UO:R playguide). (I didn't know the TB Faction was trying to summon the Avatar, did you?)


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Interesting bit about the True Britannians. (Or is it the Council of Mages? I'm not quite sure, given the way it's written. One reading is that the True Britannians are happy with Lord British/Royal Council, and the Mages think that we'd do better by dragging the Avatar in. How exactly would that work, anyway, given we've got just one known--and undivided--Avatar and thousands of shards?)

    <blockquote><hr>


    And here: http://www.uo.com/spot_56.html (some story or other).


    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's more in the way of featured player-made fiction, rather than canon. It does suggest, however, that players prefer both the Avatar label and the virtuous hero. [​IMG]

    <blockquote><hr>


    Either way....The point of course is that the UO fiction and the Ultima single-player fiction don't always exactly follow one another in lockstep, as well they should not.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    That was never in contention. [​IMG] Getting back to the original post--here's to a Blackthorn-less Warriors of Destiny!
     
  18. Erm... Back to the post at hand.

    <blockquote><hr>

    How could we be going along the lines of Ultima 5. When we have not finished the ULtima 4 Lore yet?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A couple thoughts on this:

    First, I don't think we're getting Ultima IV at all--at least not in any way recognizable from the single-player series. Combining Exodus' attacks on Britannia (as in Ultima III) with Blackthorn's corruption (as in Ultima V) was a great device for emphasizing that we skip the chain of events culminating in the rise of an uber-Virtuous person (as in Ultima IV). Then again, this all might be unintentional.

    If the devs decide to include Ultima IV-style content, it could happen with Stygian Abyss, as some of the climactic events of that storyline occurred in the Abyss. However, given that the Virtue system is as yet incomplete, I doubt we'd get anything resembling the Quest of the Avatar just yet. Me, I'm hoping for something like Underworld, with dungeon settlements and everything. Not holding my breath, though.

    Second, as others have already noted, I don't think that Blackthorn is essential for Warriors of Destiny. Perhaps we'll see notable heads of organizations dedicated to Truth, Love, and Courage being corrupted--say Faulinei corrupts the Council of Mages, and Nosfentor takes over the Royal Britannian Guard. Love? Well, I'm not sure who represents them these days. The Bardic Guild? Will the coming discord be sown by bards? [​IMG]

    I also wonder if the Shadowlords require bodies to be incarnated this time around. In the primary storyline, they inhabited Captain Johne's companions. Perhaps they will inhabit the bodies of Kronos, Melissa, and Dexter?

    In any case, I'm looking forward to seeing what the devs pull out of their collective hat this time. I'm getting a little weary of being chased by fetid essences, in any case.
     
  19. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
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    Yea, what really killed the fiction for me was letting Todd McFarlane work on this game.. Now Lord Blackthorn is a floating half machine... golems are "engineered" (not made with magic, or a statue.. which would make WAY more sense in a medieval setting) and other various "future tech" that has NO place in the MEDIEVAL world of UO.. SWG maybe.

    Whats next? is Nystul going to discover nuclear fission? Is there going to be a quest to find petrolium distillate for Blackthorns gears?

    Its almost like that Will Smith movie.. Does a giant mechanical spider really belong in the 1800's? Especially if we havent made one as of 2008?

    Death to Todd McFarlane. [​IMG]
     
  20. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    Actually, the Will Smith movie did work - you're apparently unfamiliar with the "steampunk" setting (before there was such a term) of the original "Wild Wild West" TV series from 1965. In fact, they made 2 TV movie sequels in 1979, featuring plots by the Loveless family that involved clones, bionic "$600 Man &amp; $600 Woman" and Atomic Bombs! The series and its sequels were a hoot!

    But, I'm in total agreement about McFarlane. He sued Palladium Books over a RPG called "Nightspawn" that was nothing like this "Spawn" property (if anyone had a right to object, it would have been Clive Barker, over "Night Breed"), and forced them to change the name to "Nightbane". Then there's the whole fiasco where he named (very publicly admitted it) a very nasty Spawn villain after a hockey player that he disliked, and got sued over it. Tony Twist on Wikipedia

    What's funny is McFarlane's own wiki entry doesn't even mention UO....
     
  21. <blockquote><hr>

    Yea, what really killed the fiction for me was letting Todd McFarlane work on this game.. Now Lord Blackthorn is a floating half machine... golems are "engineered" (not made with magic, or a statue.. which would make WAY more sense in a medieval setting) and other various "future tech" that has NO place in the MEDIEVAL world of UO.. SWG maybe.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I find it easier to think about golems as being "tinkered". [​IMG] For me, Britannia's always been a world on the edge of steampunk, and the idea of "arcane crystals" gives it just enough traction to make golems work. Even better if it's something the gargoyles have been doing all along. Just a little substitutiary locomotion, is all.

    Blackthorn's transformation, and the creation of his minions, on the other hand? Ugh. "We are Chaos. Resistance is futile. You have no chance to survive make your time. Ha ha ha ha."

    <blockquote><hr>

    Whats next? is Nystul going to discover nuclear fission?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    *cough*Blackrock*cough*
     
  22. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
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    You see where im comming from though.. Cmon, a giant mechanical spider? [​IMG]