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[Question for the Devs] Veteran Reward Account Age & Items

Discussion in 'UHall' started by vwrmic, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. vwrmic

    vwrmic Journeyman
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    Hopefully I can get this submitted to the developers, I think I may have even posted about it a few years back, but it never got looked at.

    So, with 15 years flown by in Ultima Online, the veteran rewards are becoming more and more diverse. The veteran rewards are there to thank players for their service, which is a fantastic idea and I don't think it should stop. But, I believe it needs to be re-evaluated from a new player's perspective. I, personally, have played UO on and off since around 1999, but having a number of different accounts means my current and main account is only just coming up to 4 years. Now I'm not here to complain about why I can't have polar bears or ethereal animals, or even the new shard transfer rewards, no, these should stay as they are.

    My main concern is Dye Tubs and other decorative items. As a new player starting now, let's say I want to dye my metal armour. Wait a second.. I have to wait 5 years before I can even touch the dye tub? That's ludicrous. It's the same with the others, why can't I dye my runebooks? Even I can't do that and my account is nearly four years old. I have to use a friend's account just to dye my books. I've seriously seen players laughed at for asking someone for help with a dye tub and it certainly wasn't pretty.

    Some rewards can be used, for instance, new players can use Commodity Deed Boxes, Crystal Portals, etc, so why not the rest? Player's have to wait 1 year before they can dye a piece of furniture. The decorative pieces are the same, the easiest way to get around it is to add a co-owner who is old enough to place the deed and place it that way, but shouldn't we now be asking why do we have to do this? I personally believe we should be making the game more accessible for newer players, not keeping road blocks like this in place.

    So, here's the list of rewards I would like the account age limit removed from and I would appreciate everyone else's opinion on the matter. No one is losing anything with these changes, it's just making items more accessible.

    1st Year:
    • Black Dye Tub
    • Special Dye Tub
    • Furniture Dye Tub
    2nd Year:
    • Leather Dye Tub
    • Flaming Head Deed
    • Banner Deed
    4th Year:
    • Runebook Dye Tub
    • Decorative Shield
    • Hanging Skeleton
    • Seed Box
    5th Year:
    • Reward Statuette Dye Tub
    • Metallic Dye Tub
    • Bloody Pentagram
    • Ankh
    6th Year:
    • Brazier
    7th Year:
    • Decorative Cannon
    • Tree Stump
    • Sheep Statue
    8th Year:
    • Weapon Engraving Tool
    9th Year:
    • Wall Banner Deed
    10th Year:
    • Ankh of Sacrifice
    • Mining Cart
    • Skull Rug
    • Dolphin Rug
    • Rose Rug
    12th Year:
    • Chaos/Order Banners
     
    #1 vwrmic, Oct 24, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  2. Padre Dante

    Padre Dante Journeyman
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    I like the main idea of this post. Two suggestions (based only on my opinions):
    • Add the ethereal hue tool (11th Year). Currently, I am at around 9 years on my account, have multiple ethereals, and cannot change their hue. To get them switched, I need to hand over my ethereals to someone else. Actually, I've been wanting this done but haven't found a "helper" yet.
    • Remove the weapon engraving tool - I could see too many weapons with random names. I guess this one isn't nearly as big of a deal, but I like the idea of having to wait on this one. Like the rideable polar bears (finally just got mine!).
     
    #2 Padre Dante, Oct 24, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  3. vwrmic

    vwrmic Journeyman
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    Thanks for your inclusion Padre, personally I don't mind about mounts and such, however, the Weapon Engraving Tool is one of the main items I actually wanted to get sorted due to using it quite a considerable amount. :)
     
  4. flappy6

    flappy6 Sage
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    should go by points not years ,dont see why you should have to wait 13-14 years to get item in game,maybe 3 or 4,and im a 13 year vet i have over 20 unchosen rewards because the guys 2 years ahead of me get all the cool crap and i get the left overs after they are done playing with them lol
     
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  5. flappy6

    flappy6 Sage
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    if youve played for 3 years you should be able to obtain any item ,if that means you saved all you vet rewards up for one cool item or if it means you can buy vet reward from ea store,but the rewards should be useable by everyone,im sure some vets would like to beable to sell the items they get
     
  6. flappy6

    flappy6 Sage
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    Also i know i posted this before but maybe have a turn-in for old vet rewards that are old and funky (statues,robes) and maybe you could have that a seprate system to get vet rewards,like say you turn in 10 (1styear) reward statues and 6 misc. robes and cloaks .....you would be able to get points for those and in turn get a higher vet reward maybe 1/2 the value of somethin but would still need that anyone can use any reward rule
     
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  7. Blood Ghoul

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    I always thought it would be a good business plan/idea for them to sell tokens in the EAstore to age your account 1 year. If you bought the token you would still be required to pay monthly fees the entire time as it is not a game time token. You'd just click it and then your account would go from 100 months (lets say) to 112 months. The cost could be $99 a year of age or even whatever the cost is for the actual pay to play.

    I know some of the 15 year vets would not like the idea but if you think about it the idea could provide a serious influx of cash to UO in which they could use to develop more content. It is also a good business plan idea as you may have a player with a 4 year old account that would cough up the funds to age his/her account to 15 years. UO would instantly collect 11 years (or so) income as if the player had be here from the start. The player would also have a huge vested interest in the account and if decided to take a break he/she would be more likely to leave the account active while playing another game or whatever.

    It would also stop the process of people buying/selling accounts. I attended the birthday party and a player there was telling me how her account was only 7 years old but she just bought a 14 year/8 month account. I would rather see the money to the game than to another player.

    BG
     
    #7 Blood Ghoul, Oct 24, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
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  8. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    I would much prefer to see a substantially less tiered system. After 12 months your account would be eligible for any reward currently classified up to year 4. At 24 months you would unlock everything up to what we have now through year 8. At 36 months you attain full veteran status and unlock all veteran rewards. I believe the reward for older accounts should be additional picks. I also believe a change like this should be implemented along with some sort of reward turnin system to clear up the glut of dye tubs and robes that are just collecting dust.
     
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  9. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    Good idea but they should not be tokens rather game codes, 1 years worth of age= $180 (roughly) but then you would have to minus game play that was not played. Maybe $29.99-$49.99 for a years worth of age? I also think there should be a one time refill of your rewards for a small fee $9.99 per added pick or something like that! I wasted picks on ethereal horses,robes ect 12 years ago and knowing then what I know now, I would have waited!
     
  10. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    Yes a point turn in system is long over due for rewards! I mean what am I doing with 100 dye tubs!
     
  11. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    I think the question comes down to whether there's a considerable population of players who gain personal satisfaction from having a particularly coloured wardrobe as a sign of their account age; My gut feeling is that no, there isn't... but that allowing people to truly decorate and make themselves a personal and appealing "Home" in Ultima Online from an early age would be a far greater positive.

    Removing the Ankh and Dye Tub limitations would also encourage people to visit each others homes more, even when dead...
     
  12. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    RE: reward trade-ins

    Think of it as a Vet reward "Clean Up Britannia".

    The way I'd do it would be to have vet rewards be more valuable by age, but not linearly:

    1 point for 12 & 24 month rewards
    4 points for 36-60 month rewards
    9 points for 72-96 month rewards
    16 points for 9+ year rewards (108+ months)

    All vet rewards up to the current year an account is eligible for would be claimable, at double the year in points
    2 points for 12 months
    4 points for 24 months
    6 points for 36 months
    etc., up to 30 points for a 15 year / 180 month reward.

    Other than a possible explosion of commodity deed boxes on the market, I don't see any drawbacks. In each case, it would take multiple items to turn lower-end items into a single higher-end one, as even turning in a 9th year item would only give you the points for an 8th year item back, or any combination that adds up to 16 points.
     
  13. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
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    I also agree. We have so many limitations put on vet rewards, that it does not only demotivate younger players (who rarely will envision the game lasting another 15 years), but also hurts veterans with multiple accounts in different age. This kind of turn in would also help to make stuff like the red soulstones from long dead accounts usable again.

    Also as stated already in another thread:
    The deed for the Shard Transfer Shield should not be account bound. It would be enough, if it is limited by account age and/or if the shield itself and the tokens could only be used by the account which placed it in the house. If the shield gets redeeded the deed could simply be reset to 0 tokens and unbound.

    (I'm also not sure, why so many rewards need a house for even simple tasks like toggling sound or pulling stuff from them or writing something on a sign - which is highly annoying for multisharders with the one house per account rule).

    *Salute*
    Olahorand
     
  14. vwrmic

    vwrmic Journeyman
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    I think your ideas are great guys, if they revamped the system it would make more sense, however, that's a big change and I have a feeling that it's something that won't be looking at for quite a while, not with what is currently in the pipeline anyway.

    With that said, as I far as my limited knowledge goes.. Removing the restrictions as I mentioned in my original post wouldn't be too difficult and could be done with the next publish. It's an easy solution for now. So that would be a great start by the devs. That's really what I would like to push as a start. :)
     
  15. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    As far as adding anything for the next publish, we are just polishing things up and adding anything new at this time isn't possible. However, this is a great thread and you've got our attention.

    On a completely unrelated note, that is the BEST forum avatar ever. :D
     
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  16. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    I for one would be upset if you allow people to pay for time they did not play. I left my account open for these last 12 years even though I did not play all if them. I did so to support the game and a friends project, and to keep my account aging. Tho I would enjoy the bump for the years I lost after I left the beta test, I would feel like other vets, and be furious.

    That said, I am fully for a system to turn in rewards for something new. There are just way too many statues floating around on vendors and yelling at me as I run by houses.
     
  17. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    And why would this upset you? They wound still be paying for account age, you would expect them to wait 5-10 years for an account to come of age? I am all for the idea and yes I have mult 15 year accounts and this would not upset me....
     
  18. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Granted waiting 5-10 years for some of the items on the vet system is kinda hard to swallow... however the Vet Reward system was put into place to reward long term members for their dedication to the game. To allow a player to simply buy years and put them on their account so they can reach say the Shard Shield is wrong in my humble opinion. We can agree to disagree, and be perfectly civil about it :)

    I do agree that some items need to be moved down the list, and maybe some others up a little bit .. and I do like the suggestion of a system to turn in old rewards. :) However for the rest of the high end items, leave them as they are, a reward for supporting the game over a long period of time.
     
  19. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Your a vet once you competeled your first month of UO and start paying for a subscription..

    I like the OP ideas with the vet rewards though :)
     
  20. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I see nothing wrong with letting folk pay their way to vet rewards. If they want. I know this... NO ONE is going to be wanting to wait 10 years to get some of the better rewards or to be able to use them. Also this is a great way for returning vets to get back into the game without getting really upset about lost time. And there are even MORE returning Vets who've returned but been unable to reactivate old accounts. Who really should have accounts that are 5 or 6 or even 10 years old but don't anymore because they can no longer get their old accounts back. Usually because they have moved, changed Emails numerous times, lost the old account information, no longer remember their old account name or passwords, don't have the old CD's they used years ago for the game.... etc... etc.... I have spoken to many folk in that exact situation who would love to be able to even ride an ethy again.
     
  21. thechuck

    thechuck Seasoned Veteran
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    I have always been ok with most of the vet reward items. Well except the deco ones, dye tubs, and transfer shields!, But more on those later on.
    I like that the higher up ethys are a status symbol.
    That should be kept so u can run around on them and say "hey look at my boura!"
    But I think there should be more type of ethys tho. Say one ethy for each yr. So again they are basicly status symbols for your time playing and every new yr u get to show off.
    As of right now they should atleast add a 1yr ethy. Seriously u have to wait 3 yrs tobe able to use a ethy.. Its insane! 3 yrs! Come on that is just crazy.

    Vet rewards started off as a status symbol in the game.
    Take you back in time to when the game was only out for 2 yrs.
    Let me set the location for you. We are at the famous Brit bank. Guy walks upto the bank to a group of players.
    "Hey I just hit 1yr look at my fancy cool robe!"
    Another player turns around and says "Oh ya, you think thats cool? look at these bad boys" Guy whips out and puts on a 2 yr vet reward gold cloak and robe.
    The 1yr players jaw drops and ohhh's and uhhhh's with a tad bit of drool coming out. Holy Ish!! i cant wait for yr 2 to wear one, that color rocks!

    Vet rewards started out as a status symbol. They were not to give older players a distinct advantage in the game.
    Look at the very 1st few years of Vet Rewards. The robes/cloaks all the same except different colors. Which again played into the whole "status symbol"
    A 2nd yr vet robe did not have more resist on it then a 1st yr robe. It had no distinct advantage, it was just a higher level of colors to choose. Again Vet Rewards were only a "status symbol".

    Vet rewards should only be "status symbols" add some special colors that only higher up years can get. Add some special labeled cloth items or some type of special wearables for the higher the yr.
    Again vet rewards should be "status symbols" in-game. Vet rewards shouldnt be deco items or the transfer shields or dye tubs. Those are items that affect game play.
    A new player can't place a cannon at there house to deco it bc they aren't a 7 yr vet. Or dye a specific item bc they are not old enough. I personaly think is crazy.
    And it is also something that actually keeps some people from playing the game. I had a roommate that play's WoW that i tried to attract over to play UO.
    I was showing him them game and he was starting to get a lil hooked in. One of the things that he loved and thought was awesome. is that u can have a house and deco it how u want. He ran around running to every players house to look at it..
    Then once he started learning that he would have to wait this amount of yrs to use that cool deco item and he would have to wait this long to be able to place that one. It completely turned him off to the game....


    All of the deco items, dye tubs, and even the transfer shields should all be obtainable after the 1st year. If you hit 12 months you should be allowed to pick any of those types of items.
    Soulstones, commodity boxes, and the 2 portals were all made year 1 choices. B/c the developers knew they were items that every player should have.
    I feel that it should be the same thing with the dye tubs, all of the deco items, the rugs and yes even the transfer shields! These are items that every player should be able to own and i think have a right to own and use.
    Vet rewards are supposed to be a "status symbol". Give older players more types and cooler ethys, give them some crazy insanely awesome colored robes/cloaks, give them some awesome special wearable items.
    The banner deeds and shield deeds. Have them at year 1 vet rewards. But as u go up in years u get acces to different type of banners and more colors and special designs.
    Let year 1 vets get a rug. But higher up year players get access to more types of rugs/colors.
    Give them items to show off there "status symbol". Don't give them items that every player should be able to use or have access to.
    The transfer shields have them as a year one reward. But at year one you are only able to own 1 shard shield. And then say either every yr or every 2 yrs you get to have an additional shield.


    Look at it from a new players view. They are paying the same amount of money as everyone else. If you pay and play the game for a full yr.
    Then you deserve and should have the right to be able to use any dye tub, deco item, a transfer shield, and u should be able to have a choice of atleast 1 ethy.
    Say someone that is playing is 17 years old. So bc they were only 2 yrs old and couldn't play the game when it came out, they should be penalized? Even tho they are paying the same amount of money every month.
    Think about how long 14 years are. Its an eternity. A new player that starts off 2day will never hit 14 years or have a chance..
     
  22. Jason

    Jason Adventurer

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    Not to be negative - but really it is kinda doubtful that the game will be around in another 15 years.
    Therefore - new players (assuming any actually exist) wont have the opportunity to have the latest vet rewards.

    Biggest prob in this game from my perspective (and yup I lost my oldest account - was hacked 8 years ago - and cant get it back)
    the +5 skill cap increase each year (this is a really huge thing compared to a brand new account), and of course the inflation

    a new character starts off with 1000 gold - which buys what exactly?
    back in 1998 when I started 1000 gold actually bought a few things for a brand new player, now you might as well throw it in the trash.

    I'm all for paying for account "Aging" - Really dont see a problem with it.
    EA gets its money - that would have been spent on a sub - so whats the problem here?
    But perhaps to make it fairer - remove the shard shield from a 'purchased vet account' - that way EA will still get cash from transfer tokens.

    /shrug
     
  23. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Back in 98 when you started you did so with 100 gold wtf are you talking about 1000 gold!?

    and you are right no one wants to wait 4 years to get the extra 20 points they need and to ride a freaking ethy.

    I see so many things wrong with the current vet reward system... just the other day I was showing someone around my buildings and they saw my vet rugs.. 10 years it takes to get one of those.... that's insane.... no one is going to wait that long.
     
  24. Blood Ghoul

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    As I stated earlier I think it is a good idea to allow players to purchase age onto their accounts for a couple reasons. I started on day 1 of UO and played until EQ came out. I kept my UO account active but after some time I let it go inactive long enough to lose 3 years. It was my fault and in hindsight I wish I would have kept the account active. I would gladly pay for the lost time to get to the 15 year mark.

    My two best friends also started playing UO on day 1 and moved to EQ the same as I did. After EQ I came back to UO and they jumped to several different games to include WOW. About 2 years ago they both decided to come back to UO but one had forgotten his account information and the other had some sort of hacked issue with his account. Both had to start brand new accounts. Seeing other players riding ethy’s and the lack of the 720 skill point cap was more than either felt like dealing with and they both quit again. If they were able to buy time onto their accounts both would have (maybe not to reach the 15 year mark but you never know).

    UO is never going to attract “the new generation of players” regardless to what the designers do. The game does not feel new nor does it satisfy the instant gratification the teenagers of today want. Even if they started blasting ads on Spike I doubt there would be any return on their investment. In order to survive UO needs to keep its current player base as well as lure back returning players. I know there are more IDOC’s than new homes going up. That alone shows players are leaving the game at a rate greater than people joining. On my shard there are numerous castle plots sitting wide open in Tram not to mention the abundance in Fel.

    One day UO will end and that is something we all need to face. It is a business and once their can no longer pay the salaries of the employees they will pull the plug. (I played NWN, the old one on AOL, before UO came out and I will never forget the day I logged in and the GM’s were spamming the upcoming Friday was the last day of the game. That Saturday everything was going).

    If UO ever gets desperate and starts trying to find cash anyway it can, such as being a “he with most rl cash wins” the game will be doomed. I have seen games which start selling things like, for lack of a better term, “Godly Artifacts” for cash that will drive away the player base in the long run. But a solid way for them raises some quick capital to invest back into the game as well as getting some players to have a vested interest to keep their accounts active would be to allow players to buy account age.

    There is always a “me versus them” in a game like UO. While I have over 10 years I have no problem with a brand new player ageing his/her account to the same level as mine. Also, I am not sure how many people would even take advantage of this option. I mean if I was a new player I am not sure I’d spend $1,500 bucks or something to age my account 15 years just to get a few rewards. I just think it is a good, harmless option to pulling in some cash.

    One day like it or not it will all be gone. All the 15 year vets need to understand (I mean if you have been playing 15 years you are an adult and should understand the way business operates) one morning your castle, server birth rares, event items, and characters will be gone. We just need to figure out a non selfish way of postponing that for as long as possible.
     
    #24 Blood Ghoul, Oct 26, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  25. Blood Ghoul

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    I actually could not agree with you more
     
  26. Spellbound

    Spellbound Lore Keeper
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    I don't mind lowering each reward's level by 3 to 5 years, but I do mind losing my real veteran status if everyone can just pay for an upgrade. So if that is going to be the case for the revenue and player base gain, don't charge less than $155.88 per year! That's what we've paid for our devotion to the game. And give the unadulterated by purchase vets an icon on their paperdoll to signify a genuine veteran status.
     
    #26 Spellbound, Oct 26, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  27. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

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    No shard shields, no money! :gee:
     
  28. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Balance can come from age of account to pick. Age of account to use. Real account age to pick & use vs bought seniority age to pick & use. Those that decided the numbers for balance like many things in the past leaves me wondering. If they play the same game we do? Or have a clue on UO lifestyles and what drives players.

    Saying give them the money and screw players with accounts they aged getting anything back. Hope the auto lot salesman don't try that thinking on your next car upgrade.

    It is a reward system. Like social security. Don't knock it till you try it.
     
    #28 Warpig Inc, Oct 26, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
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  29. vwrmic

    vwrmic Journeyman
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    Words cannot describe how awesomely cool Dr Bunsen Honeydew is. :)

    So since I have your attention, could you possibly keep us updated in this thread on what happens next? One would presume you all discuss it during a meeting, then it gets put on to a list of priorities or things that could possibly be done?

    What I would really like to know, is if this is an easy job to accomplish on your side.
     
  30. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, there is actually players who have waited that long, they played the game for that long, kept their accounts as active for that long, have been loyal to the game for that long.

    If the wait looks like too long, there is ALSO rewards for lower years, There is quite a lot of cool rewards for years much below the top ones. A player can get a full Soulstone FOR FREE which otherwise costs real money to buy, with merely a 1 Year Veteran account kept active. Not to mention the Commodity Deed Box, another very very handy item which only takes 1 Year to maintain one's own account as active to become eligible to earn. And I could continue with several other cool and handy items for other years.

    The selection of Veteran Rewards is very very varied and there is lots of items for most all years and varied throughout all ages of active accounts. Sure, a new player cannot get a 15th Year Vet Reward. This is perfectly logical to me and no big surprise. If the program intends to prize loyalty to the game and the years a player has maintained the account as active, then it makes perfect sense to me that older active age accounts should be the only ones eligible for those items pertaining to those older years. One year of monthly subscriptions costs over a hundred of dollars and to allow newer accounts to boost their account age by spending a fraction of what older, loyal customers spent to maintain their accounts as active, would be not fair towards all those players who spent their money month after month after month also to maintain their account active.

    If at all, perhaps some of the items that oldest Veteran Accounts are eligible to claim might be made transferable to younger accounts and usable by them (contrary to what was done for the Shard Shields which are account bound) so as to at least give a chance to help out friends who really want or need a given Veteran Reward even though their account's active age is not old enough to claim it, but definately, IMHO, there should be no other way to build up Active Age but by supporting the game paying the monthly subscription month after month after month after month. I am totally and competely against any possible short cut to boost Account's Active Age.
     
    #30 popps, Oct 28, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2012
  31. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I've nothing against prizing loyalty... We also get rewards every year... but those rewards should NEVER give one major advantages over other players. Being able to dye leather may not seem like much to you..... but that's because we can use it. I remember years ago when I first started the way to sell your wares as a vendor making leathers was to sell them pre-dyed.. NO ONE sold plain leathers. But I couldn't dye mine. And they never sold. I actually bought another older account just so I could dye stuff to sell it.

    Now there is no option for that anymore. And what about returning players who for whatever reason or another can't get their old accounts back???? They paid for how many years but now have to start all over at square one???

    And you may not think those 20 skill points mean much..... but do you know how many folk have quit because they didn't feel it was fair and they would never get there? Sure that wasn't the only reason they quit but it certainly was one of the Cons to the game for them when weighing the decision to stay or go. Things like that need to be considered before being implemented. You know what sort of a disadvantage it is to newer players to not be able to ride an ethy?

    As far as I'm concerned I see no reason at all why folk can't buy their way up in years if they want. If they have the money to do it then why not? Who's it hurt really? Certainly doesn't hurt EA would make them money.... Certainly wouldn't hurt the DEVs more money and more sales to UO would help them.... and if it's good for EA and good for the DEV's then it's good for the players. If it makes players happy and makes them less upset then where is the harm? If these folk are actively paying and playing I'm all the happier...

    So your telling me also that because you paid all these years that I should give you some big fat bonus????? I know tons of folk that have payed for 15 years of accounts.... though I haven't seen hide nor hair of them in years. Is that the kind of players your holding to such high and mighty standards they too should be awarded something for paying but not having logged in for months on end????? They deserve more of a reward than a newer player who's played and been in-game for the last year and a half?????

    No I think not.
     
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  32. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    PUT IT THIS WAY ..IF I WAS A NEW PLAYER I WOULD DEFFO BE PUT OFF WITH THE VETERAN YEAR ****...''.JEEZE'' THINKS THE NEW PLAYER......IVE GOTTA PLAY 14 YEARS TO GET A SHARD SHIELD.........YES...THEN THE OTHER VETS WILL HAVE 28 YEAR ITEMS LIKE ...A SERVER BIRTH GIFT GIVING TREEE......[LOL] ...RIGHTIO OFF TO PLAY GUILD WARS THEN...BYEEEEEEEEEEE...........[WHATEVER].
     
    #32 THP, Oct 29, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
  33. Blood Ghoul

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    Just think.. if that player is 12 years old he/she can finish middle school, graduate high school, finish a bachelor's degree, get their law degree, and start practicing as a lawyer in less time than it takes to earn shard shields.. Thats kind of sad when you think about it.

    BG
     
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  34. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    shards shields would benefit me as a 13 yr player, sure EA would lose money on x fer tokens but i wont be paying real cash or ******** gold prices for a token anytime soon
     
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  35. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Without the monthly subscriptions, the game would go nowhere for lack of resources.

    If there are players out there who supported the game's existance paying their monthly subscriptions month after month after month after month for 15 years (which is some 180 months....), I think they do deserve their special bonuses because with their money, they allowed the managing of resources to ensure game content, planning and so forth.

    Customers' loyalty is VERY important to run a business, IMHO.

    Why ?

    Because it shows consistent revenue with high chances to stay there month after month after month.
    If a player has supported a game for long, chances are that the support will keep going but for some exceptional changes.

    And being able to count on constant revenues, as I see it, is very important to make planning.

    That is why, as I see it, it is extremely important to prize active Veteran accounts, because their consistant and continued support to the game allows for mid term if not long term planning of new content.

    To have short burst of revenues is a nice thing to have but is something that hardly can be relied on, it is unpredictable and thus, hardly allows mid or long term planning.

    So, I am definately convinced that, from a business point of view, for the best sake of the game, the current program of Veteran Rewards is in the best interest of Ultima Online.

    Along with the oldest years account items, usually also some younger years account items are released to also appease holders of accounts of younger age. And this is ok.

    As long as one keeps their account as active, everyone eventually reaches the age to claim whatever reward is wanted, only that it is necessary to wait for time to go by. In the meantime, players with younger age accounts can enjoy all of the variety of rewards which younger age accounts can still claim and they are very many and very cool just as well.

    Besides, no Veteran reward is really indespensable to play the game. Sure, they are handy to have, sometimes cool and nice but there is a TON of other things which can be made and used in the game to play even without access to certain Veteran Rewards.
    Take the teleporting tiles for example. They were sure nice and handy but players not having access to them could still just recall from House n.1 to House n.2 . Only, outside rather than inside. So what is the big deal of not having the account age to claim teleporter tiles ?

    Dyeing leather ? There is plenty other ways to make revenues in the game and, besides, what prevents a player to ask a friend with the right account age to claim a leather dye tub to help them dyeing leather for them in the meantime until their account comes of the right age to claim and use a leather dye tub ?

    Cannot claim or ride a Veteran reward bear ? Use an ethereal if the account has the pertaining age. My point is, that basically no matter how cool and handy Veteran rewards may look like, they are never, IMHO, indespensable to play the game, there is always some other way to get things done anyways, even without them.
     
    #35 popps, Oct 29, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
  36. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The game can be perfectly played quite well, without Veteran rewards.

    Shard shields ? There is transfer tokens out there which, actually, work better and are more flexible than shard shields....

    Veteran rewards of course need to be appealing because they should be attractive to players to keep their account as active so to eventually, over time, come of age to claim whatever they like within the available list. But the game can be well played and for a lot of fun without having access to the Veteran Rewards.
     
    #36 popps, Oct 29, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  37. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    The system was good back in the day........alas any new player is gonna be put off waiting more thAN 5 YEARS FOR THE BEST STUFF...AND THATS A fact!!!
     
  38. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Of course the usefullness judgement of Veteran Rewards differs from player to player. An item which to someone might look a must have to another player might not. Nonetheless, personally, I need to disagree that throghout the first 5 years no reward is nice to have. For example, I see as very important and very usefull the Soulstones which are 1st Year and which active players may need in good quantity. Throughout the first 5 Years of active account age, a player becomes eligible with 7 Veteran rewards to claim. Besides a few Soulstones which are very handy to swap skills, from 1st Year also the Commodity Deed Box comes very usefull (it can sell about 6 millions on most shards) .
    Also usefull, to my opinion, from the 1st Year list are the Crystal Portal, the Corrupted Crystal Portal and the Greater Bracelet of Binding.
    From the 2nd Year list of available Rewards I find a good pick the Leather Dye tub.
    From the 3rd Year I like the ethereal mounts.
    The 4th Year List has more ethereals, the very usefull seed box and the runebook dye tub.
    So, I think that the assortment of Veteran rewards is very varied and very nice and usefull also for lower years. Besides, the Developers keep adding some rewards besides the top age also for younger age accounts thus making the list more and more interesting for active accounts of all ages, be them young or very old.
    I really think that the Veteran reward program that Ultima Online has, is very good, very varied and well thought in consideration of accounts of all ages, be them young or old. I do not see any need for short cuts to increase accounts active age other than actually wait that the account comes of the right age through playing the game and maintaining their subscription as active year after year.
     
    #38 popps, Oct 30, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  39. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    No offense to those who hold similar views to those expressed by Popps, but I think they are very selfish and short sighted. I have not seem a single suggestion that would remove any option available to those very old accounts. Those accounts veteran status would be unaffected if all rewards were made available to other age accounts. What I hear is "I have been here along time so I want something special that you can't have".

    And while you may have a point with the fact that those accounts have supported UO for all these years, alone they will not be enough to support this game for another 15. The point is well made that a 6 year old will graduate high school before they could get a shard shield. If we want this game to be around another 15 years it will have to attract and retain new players. Excluding them for rewards for such a long period does not promote that goal.

    I am all for some veteran rewards, but at some point you need to draw the line. When vet rewards came out the longest a new account would have to wait to reach the top tier was around 36 months... Which I feel is a reasonable time frame to achieve "veteran" status. As noted in my post above, I support a 3 tier veteran classification that would unlock rewards over a three year period. After 36 months accounts would continue to receive additional reward picks. This would mean that a 15 year account would have substantially more rewards available to them, just not different rewards than a 3 year old account.

    I believe a change like this would give new players a status to strive for while still making it feel within reach... Which helps new players feel like hanging around.
     
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  40. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    The really old vets want it all to themselves...hell i get the shard shields in a few months but I WOULD MUCH MAKE IT FAIRER FOR ALL PLAYERS BY MAKING THE VET REWARDS MORE FREELY AVAIABLE FOR EVERYONE..............Lets be honest........a new player aint gonna take they have to play 14 years to be on a level playing field.....oh they wont be.....because the olde then back in the day 14 years vets will be 28 year vets with even better cheats/side shows..when the new player actually reaches 14 years...

    this is total bull **** in the modern UO..............
     
    #40 THP, Oct 30, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
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  41. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
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    Buy up account age? Why not - at least for accounts to match their real age this should be an option to compensate for time frames, in which no payment happened - be it due to issues the player had or EA payment system glitches.
    Each reward for everyone? I think not - at least not in the sense that it is a choice in the picks. But for sure every account should be able to use each reward with kind of practical or decorative function he has in his posession independend from account age - at least house addons, dye tubes and such. Exception may be on person items like ethereal mounts (although seriously an ethereal mount usable without age limitation should be part of the 1st year choices) and reward clothing.
     
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  42. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Do you have anything to substantiate this claim? You just made that up didn't you? tsk tsk.

    To be honest I think most of "the really old vets" want what is best for our game. There may be some few Grinches. *shrugs*
    Just do not speak for the "really old vets", I am sure they can speak for themselves.
     
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  43. popps

    popps Always Present
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    As I see it, there is no such thing as "can't have" with Veteran rewards, coming the pertaining active account age, all accounts are eligible to just the same rewards. So, all accounts can, and will, eventually, get the exact same rewards.

    And no veteran reward is indespensable to play the game. Shard Shields ? There is transfer tokens which actually work much better.... Teleporter tiles ? Just recall from the outside of House n.1 to the outside of the House n.2. Ethereal mounts ? There is plenty picks with a mere 3 years active age of an account.

    What I am trying to say, is that sure, some rewards are nice and cool, some might be a status symbol but none of them is really needed to play the game. The game can be well played just fine without the need for Veteran rewards. They are not even worth much in terms of gold, LOTS of Event Items which any account age account can get are worth way, but WAY more. I heard of Event Items sold for several hundreds of millions of gold. There is no Veteran Reward that can sell even for a fraction of that much.

    So, Veteran Rewards are not needed to play the game, really, they are not worth that much, they only are a small token to players who have supported Ultima Online over the years. Why take this away from them by giving to players who have NOT supported the game for that long by allowing any type of short cut to increase the active age of an account ? I cannot possibly agree with this.

    The only thing that should factor in for Veteran Rewards is playing the game and maintaining one's own account as active year after year after year. Short cuts would only be a slap in the face to all those players who actually kept their accounts as active month after month after month, often even through times when they were not sure to keep it as active.

    Again, Veteran Rewards are NOT really needed to play the game. There are players who have been very succesfull playing Ultima Online, have become highly competitive PvPers, wealthy players etc., without holding high age active accounts. This speaks volumes how little Veteran Rewards may be needed to play Ultima Online. So, I cannot see any point in younger accounts absolutely wanting any Veteran Reward before their account comes of the pertaining age to claim those rewards.

    I totally disagree.
    If at all, more options should be given across the list of available rewards from 1st through 15th Year Veteran rewards so as to make the move from 1 year to another, slowly, year by year, still interesting and appealing. But definately, I do not think that there should be any short cut to get age through other means other than wait for the time to go by, month by month, year by year, as those players who now have 14 or 15 years active accounts have waited.
    These players have waited their time, then all other players can sure also wait their time to see their accounts come of that age. While waiting, there will be other rewards, in the middle, that they will be able to claim, cool, usefull and interesting.

    The Veteran Reward program is fine as it is, IMHO, the only addition I would perhaps introduce, is more interesting rewards for those years not well covered, to my opinion, like for example the 2nd Year, the 9th Year, the 13th Year. All other years, as I see it, are very well covered with good, nice and usefull items which a player can enjoy when the active account age increases from one year to another.
     
  44. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Not sure if I understand that well. Would that perhaps mean that, just as an example for discussion sake, by paying 180 months worth of subscriptions' fees a brand new UO player would instantly have a 15 Years old Veteran Account (15 years x 12 months per year = 180 months worth of subscription fees....) ?

    If so, how much would 180 months worth of subscriptions' fees cost to get an instant 15 Years old Veteran active account ?

    But I do not see, even if non veteran accounts paid the same fees as veteran accounts to gain the same active account age, why the time wait should be shortened.
    I mean, a 15 Year Veteran account holder not only has paid monthly subscription fees for 180 months, but they also have waited, month after month, the time to go by.
    I cannot understand why another account, just by paying the same subscription fees, should bypass the wait for the Veteran account age. Even if the subscription fees total paid was the same, the time wait would be way much shorter if a short cut was allowed which I do not see why that should be.
     
    #44 popps, Oct 30, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  45. Sept

    Sept Journeyman
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    For once I agree with Popps, most Vet rewards do not offer any game changing advantage and thus there is no need to alter the system.

    Anything that vet rewards offer as far as game mechanics are concerned, for example: Shard shields, invulnerable mounts, house teleporters, etc are not game changing. These can all be obtained or achieved by other means, Transfer tokens are available in game for gold, or if you prefer, from the EA Store. Chargers of the fallen can be ridden by any account age and can even be retouched, which makes it not too dissimilar to the 3rd year horse. A rechargeable tele tile can be purchased from the EA store and the Vet one is not even account bound so can also be obtained in game for gold. The only vet reward choice I see a problem with is the commodity deed box, this need to be recoded to make it usable by all non trial accounts. I think they should also add a first year ethy.

    I do not see the need to fast track anyone to vet status, all I hear as far as the aforementioned rewards is 'I want I want I want'. Well guess what, when everyone has one, those that begged and whined for it, will be the first to cast them off and hit the boards crying for something else.

    Now what I would like to see changed, 720 skill cap on all non trial accounts, this actually affects game play and thus gives vets an unfair advantage. Lastly make the luck bonus from the 10th anniversary statue based on something other than account age, say fame, or skill points, something anyone can achieve.
     
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  46. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Popps I hear what you are saying, i just believe differently than you. IMO every argument you make in favor of leaving the system as is, only further illustrates my point. If these rewards are so irrelevant to game play, what would be the harm in letting more people have access to them? The fact is, most of the veteran rewards, while not a requirement to play, are very sought after and would be useful to the vast majority of the player base.
     
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  47. Blood Ghoul

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    I agree with Sept 100% on the 720 skill cap. Its an advantage that is unfair to new players and actually out dated. I would also like to see an ethy mount added to the 1 year reward. I think the horse would be perfect.

    On the topic of vet rewards I still think they should allow players to buy game account age for either the exact same as real play time or close to it. I think it would be a great revenue source for the company. I do not think UO will ever attract a ton of new players as the game does not fit the "Me" generation. UO can survive by making the game better for current players as well as attracting back former players. All improvements to the system take money and maybe this would be a way they could bring in some fast revenue to hire another programer or something. I seriously doubt any new player is going to pay roughly 2 grand to age an account 15 years but maybe someone who is at 13 might buy 2 years.

    This will also stop people just buying accounts from other players which let's be honest a number of players have done anyhow. Like i said earlier while i was at the birthday party a player there told me she had only been playing 4 years but just bought a 15 year account. If that activity goes on, which it does, I think the ability to just buy account age is a better solution.

    BG
     
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  48. Sargon

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    I am 100% against any option to allow players to buy their way up in account age for the purposes of receiving veteran rewards. People who have supported the game for 15 years should be rewarded for doing so. Star Trek Online recently implemented a change where if someone buys a lifetime subscription at any time, they immediately gain access to all rewards regardless of how long they have played. I can understand that from a purely financial standpoint to sell lifetime subscriptions, but as a veteran player that would be a bit of a slap in the face. As long as the higher-tier rewards aren't game-imbalancing, I don't see any problem with the current system.

    As for the 720 skill cap, I do agree that it is unfair to new players and the restrictions should be removed. UO is already difficult enough for new players and they don't need a restrictive skill cap to make things even tougher on them.
     
  49. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
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    No not that way. But you have many real veteran accounts created way back in the past, which had a break in payment, be it intended or not (i.e. during last years account management change misery 2 of my account lost some weeks or even month due to the inability to get the charge deduction back on the valid credit card). So I would eventually like to be able to pay up my oldest account (which is from the times of the beta) to match his real age again.

    I am sure, others are in a similar situation - having their account created years ago, and had a break in line of payment.

    Eventually it would already help, if these accounts as soon as some Game time is applied, the full new paid game time is added to their ingame account age, as long as that is below the real account age. This would also reduce hassles with not aging accounts due to the bug with cancellation of credit card payments eventually (if I remember correctly, there was a bug in the past causing the account stopping to gain age, if subscription has been cancelled during the paid time - while you still could play, from that time the account age did not grow any more).

    *Salute*
    Olahorand
     
  50. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    I think u'll find the ''older vets''are happy with the way it is and the ''others'' would like a more level playing field [fullstop]

    Hell iam a 14 year vet in a few months..BUT .i would much sooner let 3-4-5 year players have the ''same level playing field'' as the ones that have played from the start.....PRETTY MUCH NEAR LIKE ME ........

    LISTEN UO will never encouagre new players when u have to wait more than 10 years to use some good stuff...and the shard shields are pretty game breaking...please dont say u can buy them in store ..who the hell wants to pay even more real money on a dying game..the subs is enough already!!! and please dont say u can buy them ingame...they RE CRAZY PRICES....think i woul much sooner get them free!!!! mmmm ive got 6 picks owing..aint bad for nothing that is it..5 shard transfers around the shards tht u pick and back home per month!!!!! ....and this is not game changing??? how much would that cost in the EA store or in UO gold....AND THIS IS NOT GAME BREAKING??????
     
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