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Question on Vendor Changes ??????????????

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kyrie_Elaison, Oct 21, 2008.

  1. It's been a looooooong day and I want to make sure I am reading this correctly. Are you saying that items placed on a vendor as "Free" will be charged the standard rate as if it were for sale? Or is this only for items where people are using them as storage containers?

    I have a few vendors at my house that I only put free stuff on to give to young players and people that want housing decorations. This will ruin those vendors (if I get charged for those items).

    Just to add, I think the daily rate for a vendor is too much as it is. Why should I get charged if my vendor is empty? Barkeeps are limited to 2 per house, and I have been using vendors to act as NPC's at my player run establishment. It is very expensive to do this. I would like to see them drop the amount or remove the base daily fee. However, when using them as actual vendors, there should be a charge for the stock and sales.
     
  2. Desperado_SE

    Desperado_SE Journeyman
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    No idea as to the question part of your thread, but I am just wondering how many empty vendors are you running to where it becomes very expensive to keep them there?
     
  3. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    I'm also curious as to what will happen if a vendor owner changes his mind on the price, then immediately [or before 24 hours lapses] takes the item off and re-prices it. Penalty?

    We really really need to test the heck out of this!
     
  4. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    o There is a 30 minute grace period after adding an item to a vendor to prevent accidents: any item removed before 30 minutes passes will not have a vending penalty

     
  5. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Oh, no, not at all. Here, allow me to clarify this:

    Right now, its possible to put an item on a vendor for sale for 5,000,000. This item would incur a daily charge of 10,000. However, if the savvy cheater takes the item off their vendor right before the daily charge occurs, and then places it back on, they don't have to pay their fees.

    When you stack this effect on a vendor selling dozens and dozens of high-end items, the owner is literally escaping all maintenance costs.

    This change will require items that you're charging for (not free) to remain on the vendor for at least 24 hours. If the item is removed before then, by the owner (its fine of course if its sold), then a "Vending Penalty" is placed on the item for the value of its daily charge. The next time the item is placed on a vendor to be sold, the vendor will refuse to sell it unless they can debit that amount from their account.

    Also, the vending penalty won't be active for the first half hour, in case someone places an item by mistake, mis-prices it, or suddenly decides to give it away.

    After 24 hours, the item won't have a vending penalty if removed by the owner.

    Free items will remain free, this is not that sort of change :)

    P.S. It wasn't in the patch notes, but the other additional change to vendors is that items placed on the vendor's paperdoll, that are for sale, will charge the correct amount daily (which it has not, up to now).
     
  6. pavel.vesely

    pavel.vesely Guest

    Make secure container(s) accessible to anyone and move free items to it, and place book with information about it to one of remaining vendors. You have to check box at regular intervals, to check if some bored idiot did not do something not at all nice in it.
     
  7. von Beck

    von Beck Guest

    Currently you can avoid being charged vendor fees by removing the items from the vendor at a certain time of day and putting them back on a little later. I assumed that this change was to stop this happening. It's only really worth bothering to do if your vendor sells items worth millions of gp.

    ** Edit: Yeah - what Draconi said... he posted while i was typing and said it much better.
     
  8. Thank you for the quick response Draconi. It all makes sense now.
    :)

    Any chance of removing the daily base fee for vendors, or allowing us to have more barkeeps?

    Maybe it could be set up so you could only have 2 barkeeps selling goods, but could have more that are only guards or something?

    I know a lot of people that like to use vendors and barkeeps as guards, or other NPC chars in their homes and establishments. It allows for a little more roleplaying.

    Thank you.
     
  9. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest



    draconi, can u tell me 1 thing?
    WHY can the uo dev team NEVER do things simple and easy????

    u do something against the vendor fee bypass exploit, THAT is GOOD BUT
    why u cant go the simple way by charging an item if it get sold???
    do u think about the consequenses ? if u change soemthing, u HAVE also to take a look to the player wich dont bypass the system, player wich want to use vendors for selling regular ,taxing an item every 24h is to expensive, many player dont use vendors because of that.
    a simple charge by sold would help on both sides,the exploiter cant exploit anymore, and regular player had fun running a vendor again.
    with the new system u only confuse player more.
    :(
     
  10. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Any thoughts on ways to let us do trades of over 150mil without needing a packhorse?
     
  11. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Great addition, fix, change, whatever!

    Happy to see cheaters pay as much for vending as the honest players. As long as it works properly, the only way I can see cheaters circumventing this now would be for them to script vendor changes every 29 minutes, heh. And who wants to be we will find some trying to do just that?

    (I will eventually sing praises over the rest of the publish too but this one stuck out to me as a great change that might be overshadowed by some of the other additions. So I'm glad you made this thread ma'am :))
     
  12. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    'The next time the item is placed on a vendor to be sold...'
    - This means on any vendor, yes? And it is not account exclusive is it?

    Scenario:
    I buy an item at the bank for 100 million.
    Seller had tried to sell it for 100 million on his vendor and pulled it after 22 hours.
    Now, I try to sell the item on my vendor for 110 million.
    Will I be charged 200,000 gp before I can put it for sale on my vendor?

    That's about the only thing I'm noticing that might cause some to get upset.
    Yet, I would rather it be universal on all vendors & all accounts rather than see people swapping vendors or using alternate accounts in attempts to avoid the fees.
     
  13. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    You've got it laid out perfectly.

    The main thing is that if the guy at the bank is going to sell you an item for 100 mil, it will have a highly visible tag on it (mouse-over) that says what the vending penalty would be.

    In that case, you could figure in the cost of the vending penalty in your negotiations to buy the item at the bank with said person, then still sell it on your own vendor for the 10mil profit.
     
  14. Xevious

    Xevious Guest

    You probably will be charged, but since it's an item property, you'll be able to see that when you buy it and ask for the appropriate discount from the player you buy it from.

    EDIT: Heh, JUST a bit too slow...
     
  15. von Beck

    von Beck Guest

    :scholar: Please explain how you will deal with people using vendors for free storage of items? There is a limit on how much junk you can store in your house for a reason mate!

    :loser:
     
  16. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Doh! The item property, that's right.
    Sounds great :)
     
  17. Ferrut

    Ferrut Journeyman
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    WOO!

    Hmm.

    So, couldn't someone with two accounts still bypass the daily charge, just using another account to buy the item, swap item/gold back between accounts, then replace on vendor?
     
  18. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    wich items u mean?
    BodBocks alowd anyway
    most items are stackable now, no prob anymore
    so which items in vendors ?

    and why can 18x18 use 50 vendors? thats redicioulos anyway
    reduce vendors from 7x7- 5 till 18x18- 10 thats enough

    all in all ,my idia is much more better then draconies, u will see, exploiter will find a way to exploit the vendor fee anyway in the future, BUT the average player dont use vendors because of the 24h cost,

    for example
    average player play on weekend, use vendor 5 items a 1000 000
    dayly fee 50 000, x7 = 350 000, thats not fair or atractive for average player.

    with my idia, let a daly fix cost say 100 gold,
    then if a item is sold for 1 000 000 tax it with 50 000 thats 50 700 tax if the item is SOLD,
    u see, the fee cant get avioded and THE AVERAGE PLAYER WILL USE VENDORS AGAIN

    (what we have now, and also will be with draconies system is, 99% LUNA only vendors)
     
  19. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    *Thumbs up Draconi*

    This is a great change.
     
  20. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    I think you're misunderstanding this change. This will not hurt the average vendor owner.

    What this system will prevent is someone removing an item when the normal daily maintenance fee is about to be charged (honest players have been paying it all along). The only time you incur this tax or penalty is when you remove an item from a vendor before a 24 hour period expires. Honest players have been paying vendor maintenance fees all along. That is not changing, we will still pay this fee. Only change is that you will pay an extra penalty fee if you remove the item before it's been on the vendor for at least 24 hours.
     
  21. jelinidas

    jelinidas Guest

    I have a 18x18 and use all 50 vendors. 10 would not be enough! All my vendors are well stocked and maintained. 90% are even profitable.

    I like this change. I see people all the time removing high priced items everyday just to replace them the next morning. If I have to pay vendor fees, so should they!
     
  22. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Thank you for making allowances for idiots like me who forget to hit 'return' between prices and end up with something priced at 500300gp. or stutter on the 0 and end up with one too many. I have 30 minutes to correct the error.
     
  23. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest



    sry u have no clue, u dont have to wait for NEXT morning, i observate exploiter and called GM many times,trick was much more simpler.
    and if u run 50 vendors, ok, i talk about average player, how many vendors do u see OUTSIDE of luna ?????????????????????????
    u have more vendors then some uo-shards have active player :)
    (i DONT talk about the only 2 (TWO) populated uo-shards, )
     
  24. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest


    i dont understand anything,
    again, how many vendors u see outside of luna???
    the question is : WHY do average player dont run vendors ??
    it is to expensive, and on most shards u see very rare player do vendor shopping
    honest player dont run vendors,because they lose gold.
    99% of all luna high priced item seller use the exploit, fact
    (or have stocked enough dupe gold on vendors, or they use this other bug with havy items, i dont know if this stillexist today)

    i posted, that the change is good on one side, but the whole system is NOT average player friendly. FACT
    u will see that the exploiter find another way. but the average player will still dont use vendors
     
  25. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    i forgot:

    what the hell do u on 50 vendors, 50 x 125 items are 6250 items :)
    wich shard, where is ure house, i want to take a look
     
  26. Prince Erik

    Prince Erik Journeyman
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    Well, I consider myself an average player and I have a small tower with a few vendors in it in the middle of the Yew forest (i.e. NOT Luna). My vendors are in that sweet spot where I do not have to spend every minute playing to keep them stocked, but sell enough to be quite profitable. I have some regular buyers (who no doubt run luna shops and mark up my stuff) who keep a steady flow of gold coming in. Frankly, I LOVE this change and cannot for the life of me understand why anyone but a vendor fee dodger would be against it. It doesn't effect anyone who's using their vendors correctly at all.

    -P.E.
     
  27. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    shard and house i want to visit

    btw. what do u sell? 10 recal scrolls a week?
     
  28. laurlo

    laurlo Guest

    are these changes already in effect?

    [​IMG]
     
  29. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    I have an entire runebook full of vendor houses located outside luna. So somebody must be running them.


    Not always true. I consider myself an average player, and I maintain 6 vendors, only 1 of which is located in Luna. And I fail to see how this change will have any negative impact on me.

    Of the 6 vendors I run, all of them are profitable, except maybe the latest one I placed. I'm not familiar with the mall he is placed in, and am not sure how much traffic they get. If it turns out it's not a profitable location, I will remove him. It's still too early to see if he will turn a profit.

    FAct? No, sounds more like opinion. You have no way to know how they are taking care of their vendors. I know a few players who have been playing for a very long time, and have more gold than they could ever need, or know what to do with.

    Again, not fact. Opinion. I am an average player, and I have never had any problems with maintaining profitible vendors. The only way this change will hurt the average player is if they are constantly removing items from their vendor. And frankly, if you have a vendor, and you're not leaving items on there for at least 24 hours at a time, you're just hurting yourself anyway. That's no way to run a vendor.

    Maybe the exploiters will find away around it (I doubt it), but so what if they do. At least it's attempt at fixing a problem. This change isn't about making it easier to run a vendor, it's about making sure everyone is paying their vendor fees like they're supposed to.

    I cannont see how this will effect honest, every day vendor owners.
     
  30. Sheridan

    Sheridan Guest

    Why are you being so belligerent over this change, Der Rock? Not sure if something got lost in the translation for you, but it's not a bad change for everyone as a whole. Only the people who were working the system to get around paying the fees are affected by this at all. Calm down.
     
  31. Prince Erik

    Prince Erik Journeyman
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    Chesapeake - Small tower across the road from the Yew Cemetary. I sell mostly craftables - potion kegs, Stone furniture (my best vendor actually), Recall/Gate scrolls, high end jewelry, house addons, recipes, repair deeds, etc. This shop has been there since the day Trammel opened - look for "Roscoe Mart". I have a bulletin board for special orders (a GREAT way to avoid excessive vendor fees, btw - only put something expensive on a vendor if someone places a custom order for it).

    Hope you can come by and take a look - I'll even gate you if you wish. :)

    -P.E.
     
  32. jelinidas

    jelinidas Guest

    Shard is Cats. Vendor mall is named Westborough Jewelry Mall and Auction Hall. Mall is OUTSIDE Luna's west gates. Leave the west exit and look for house with American flag on roof in radar, mall is located next door.

    This change does nothing to affect me. I play fair. Always have, always will.
    My prices range from 49gp-20000000. My fees are thousands and I still profit.

    btw,, most of my shopping is done OUTSIDE luna. Cats has some great vendor malls that are always well stocked and priced right. The two keys to running a vendor imo.

    I invite you to come check me out. If ya get lost outside Luna, I'll gate ya. :mf_prop:
     
  33. love2winalot

    love2winalot Guest

    If you have a Vendor that is NOT in Luna, and have some high end items you decide to sell, it can be a real hassel, because your vendor is not on any of those other vendor search web sites. So your high end items usually sits there eating up all the profit by the time it sells. Soooooooo What to do?

    Well, you could just quit UO, and give me all your stuff..........hehehe, ah hahahaha.

    Or, mark runes, place a bulletin board, and have part time vendor for the high end items. Sell the normal stuff 24/7. But that tokuno dye you have for 700k, is only for sale during high end store hours. ie, sat 5pm pst. sun 6pm pst, ect. At 4;45 pm drop the runes, "sale at 5pm is on the rune", sale for 1/2 hour only. 5pm place high value items on vendor. At 5.29 pm remove it if it did not sale. Do this each day until it is sold.

    Is this taking advantage of game mechanics? Of course it is. But every Luna vendor is willingly, or, unwillingly taking advantage of those vendor search sites.

    ps: I do NOT have a vendor, so this is just an example.
     
  34. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    I can vouch for Jelinidas. He has one of the best shops on the shard. I shop there frequently. And he has a huge selection of items ranging from very inexpensive to very high end.
     
  35. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    thx for posting,
    that what i mean with " what do u sell?10 recall scrolls a week"
    (dont misunderstood me here, i LOVE player that run low level supply vendors)

    so u maybe have to pay several 1000 of gold fee a week, thats no drama, but now think about player vendors with offers stuff for alltogether 10 mil or more,the fee eat ure gold if the stock turnover is not fast enough.therefore many player dont run vendors.
    and u say to "avoid" the eccessive vendor fee u use the bulletin board, thats ok also,
    BUT that is not what i understand of using vendors, use bulletin board or books in vendors, you know i miss the haptic-factor(the wrong word in an online game i know) there is no eyecatcher, u know, open vendor, see stuff, like it, check price, like it more and buy it,

    so all i want to say is:
    again, the change is not bad at all, BUT
    the system we have with 24hfee is player unfriendly.

    and i can tell u,the new system from pub56 change nothing for honest player, thats clear, but
    it also change nothing for the exploiter.
    i bet, some of them are writing right now a new script
    and i bet even draconi had not thought about this:

    place items on vendor price them
    remove items every XX houres (item has tag)
    REPLACE them with other NEW items
    remove items after xx houres (items have tag)
    and so on and so on.....
    u see, the new system changes NOTHING, maybe for a week or so


    all i say is collect the fee if the item get sold
    i am not belligerent, i do prognoses, and i seldom fail.
    :) peace all
     
  36. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Now I may understand it wrong. Will the daily charge for the item still be there?

    If yes, I will say it need a small changes. On Siege that may not be enough.

    Lets take your exemple:
    I put an item on a vendor for sale for 5,000,000. This item would incur a daily charge of 10,000.

    Now my vendor may use a week to sell the item, we are few on Siege and my wendor is not at Luna or at a public moongate.

    Having the item for sale a week, will cost me 70,000gp x 3 as it is Siege so it will cost me 210,000gp to try to sell my item and sometimes a week won't do it.

    Now something is wrong on Siege!!!
    I placed items for 5,000,000 on my vendor and my vendor wanted a daily fee at 90,180 gp

    If it take me a week to sell the item, it will cost me 631,260 gp a week


    Only reason players abuse it is, vendor fee is insane. If you have a vendor away from town, it will be very expensive to try to sell items and not worth it.

    Changes it so it if I place an item on my vendor,so it will cost a weekly fee, same as we have now as daily fee.

    That would make the changes look like this:

    Instituted a new Vending Penalty for players who attempt to circumvent the weekly vendor charge for their items
    Vending Penalty is the same as the weekly charge for the item
    Penalty is applied if the item is removed by the owner before a week has passed since it was added to the vendor
    Penalty is noted on the object as an item property
    If the item is added to a vendor again, the vending penalty is automatically deducted from that vendor’s account, or given back to the player if funds are insufficient
    There is a 30 minute grace period after adding an item to a vendor to prevent accidents: any item removed before 30 minutes passes will not have a vending penalty
    Once the week pass, the item may be removed at any time by the owner without penalty. Re-adding it to the vendor starts the process over again, however


    This way, shops away from town again can affort vendors. At least on Siege we really need to lower the vendor fee, all shops away from town is long gone.
     
  37. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    30 mins may not always be enough as you may not see it before a customer ICQ you to tell you.
     
  38. Prince Erik

    Prince Erik Journeyman
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    Oh I understand completely, and that's why I do not sell 5,000,000 items very often. In fact I think I've only sold two! I guess the issue is what do you consider "Average" for a vendor. I may be closer to the smaller end of the scale, though my Stone vendor is currently holding about 3,000,000 gold on him. I've adapted my business model to my liking so I'm ok with it. I'd love to not have vendor fees, personally so I agree with you in that this change does nothing to HELP the honest vendor. My point was it doesn't HURT them either. ;) It only hurts the people exploiting the system to avoid paying vendor fees, something I think most people would be behind.. well ... as long as they do it right that is!

    Thanks for explaining your position - stop by my shop if ya need a few recall scrolls. :D

    -P.E.
     
  39. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    If I don't see my mistake and have to be told, I'll take the item off and not put it back on for a couple of days. np.

    This isn't really relevant to me anyway, my vendors only sell crafted goods, my prices aren't in the millions of gp, my vendors don't have millions of gp on them either, I 'cash up' every Sunday morning, leaving them with 10k each 'float'.
     
  40. Nylan

    Nylan Adventurer
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    The problem with only charging when an item is sold is that all you have to do is put an outrageous price on your items and just use it as storage.
    Just imagine putting your housing decor that you are not using on a vendor and pricing each piece at 10 mil.
    No one would by it, but you just increased your housing storage by 125 items. Now multiply that by how many vendors you can have.
    a 18x18, 50 vendors x 125 would be 6250 extra storage
    a keep would be 8750
    a castle would be 13500

    I tend to agree that the vendor charges are high, but only charging when or if some thing was sold would not work either.
     
  41. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    This might sound like a dumb question i haven't been in the game for over a week because of a trojan i had on my computer that i couldn't get rid of so i had to do a format of my entire hard drive because of it.
    • no idea how i got the trojan spyware doctor picked it up but couldnt remove it for some unknown reason and in safe mode it couldn't even detect it only in normal mode it was picked up. it was some hijack trojan or something i forget the name only spyware doctor detected it i should have wrote the name down anyway after doing a number of scans with several differnt programs if everything is ok ill reinstall UO.
    i would never gamble on logging into UO with a trojan or a virus i don't want some hacker getting my account info. i have one concern i have a number of vendors with bods in bod books that are not for sale i know that is legal to do but will this new rule affect them in anyway or raise my vendor fees for them i am guessing no but i have no idea.
     
  42. trammelite

    trammelite Guest

    @black sun

    all this will hurt is the average player - like always when the nerf stick was pulled recently.

    the power-sellers will just buy their stuff with their other accounts prior to getting charged, while single account players get the brunt.

    what a joke. all this effort again against us after-work players. *shakeshead*

    and all this brains wasted for exactly what ? will there ever be a time when these changes get thought through befor they hit the test servers ? after more than 4 years of playing, i start to doubt .....
     
  43. FishinFool

    FishinFool Guest

    This is one of the best changes in recent memory. All they need to do it charge the buyer for the <24 hr rate and it's golden.
     
  44. Ferrut

    Ferrut Journeyman
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    *waves arms in the air*

    I think FishinFool may be agreeing with me here... but can nobody else see that buying back on a 2nd acc. in <24hrs might make this change easy to get around?? I hope not...

    Nice publish though!
    hehe :)
     
  45. FishinFool

    FishinFool Guest

    The actual daily charge is 6000/mil - just checked this on GL - Siege probably costs more since everything on Siege is more expensive IIRC.

    If you 'took advantage' of the system in the past (and present) you will need to change your stocking habits.

    Vendors are stocked with rediculous amounts of good at high prices and they are not being properly paid for. Frankly, you don't even have to bother taking the items off the vendor, just let the vendor 'pop' each day - recover your stock from the house sign and place a new deed.

    My question is how will the system cope with a negative bank balance?

    Place item for 10mil on vendor, it checks - at that time for funds. The same abuse is possible here.
     
  46. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Now I don't have a vendor and I never will have a vendor.....

    But here's a thought for all the ones upset about this.......

    How about just pricing your items to sell.... and not pricing them to get rich quick. ..... makes more sense to me... maybe the change will further bring down some of the ridiculously overpriced items.
     
  47. Pickaxe Pete

    Pickaxe Pete Lore Master
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    Great change, thanks Draconi. My only wish would be, as mentioned above, that we have the vendors take a commission only when the item sells instead. This way, the slower shards like mine will have an equal chance to run a viable store. Few items sell on Napa versus Atlantic, for instance, leading to far more fees accrued to sell the same items.

    As far as the unlimited storage objection, it's true it could be an issue, but look at the EA/Mythic game DAoC -- there are no daily fees there. Yes, some use their merchant for a bit of extra storage, but it is really well within reason.

    One way to make it work in UO would be to cap the maximum number of vendors allowed per account (per house totals remain unchanged).
     
  48. jelinidas

    jelinidas Guest

    Uh, no.

    Do not hurt the honest folks who run malls. I would shut down my mall if I had to switch accounts just to maintain my vendors. I cloth and feed my vendors. Pay them VERY well. Lets not nerf everything. If someone wants to get around things, they will. Plain and simple. Id rather be playing.

    :yell:
     
  49. Pickaxe Pete

    Pickaxe Pete Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

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    I have 51 vendors myself. I'd gladly have fewer if my suggested change went in. It would not effect mall owners, just those with too many personal vendors. :)

    Either that or let people store as much as they want to. But either way, commission for actual sale is a lot fairer.
     
  50. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest


    your examples not bad at all, and already in use i think, but
    my thoughts are about the collective situation,think about the average player we have now, and the ones we want to come new to the game in the future.
    think about player, wich maybe play 1-2 h a day, or those wich only play on weekends
    and so on.
    the system at all is not usefriendly.
    it have to be much more simpler and not so ruinous if u play on shards where the
    stock turnover is not fast enough to make a benefit.