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Quiver of Rage Bug, with test result, Dev Pls Read~

Discussion in 'UHall' started by jinny, Jun 28, 2008.

  1. jinny

    jinny Guest

    After read the post from S!ckLoveR, and observed the blue archers in my shard doing 4x damage to ppl on moving shoot. I carried out a test, using my friend's red archer shoorting to my mage. Here is the finding:

    My mage resist is 70/70/69/70/70.
    Archer damage is 74-89

    I done over 50 shoots with quiver of infinity, max damage I got is 26
    (Seems to be normal 89X0.3 is arround 26)
    I done over 50 shoots with quiver of rage, max damage I got is 33
    (The 6 additional damage I can do I guess is from the 10% bugged damage, quiver of rage only has 50% cold 40% poison, my guess is the other 10% cannot be resisted by current armor formula)

    This test is done with archer that only has 100 anat, tact, 90DI. So I think the blue archers is using 120 tact, anat, 100% DI and honor themselves.

    Some ppl said moving shoot is overpowered, I think the real problem is quiver of rage, and what I hope is, DEV can change the cold + poison damage sum up to 100% and it might fix this exploit.

    Unless that moving shooting ppl with 4x damage every 1.5-2 sec is intended, I believe DEV can do something for us.
     
  2. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    It is never possible to do 4x damage with moving shots on even quiver of rage to a 70's guy.

    Please stop whining as I have been using my mage to fight these archers all the time.. the only time i die to archer is when i get dismounted and get ganked... so if you say nerf this, why dont you nerf gang bang??

    If you're saying archer is now overpowered with the quiver of rage with a wooping 6 more damage... why not you look at Enhance potion??

    If max damage a person could do is 26 per hit, it will never have any chance to kill anyone

    one potion from ep 50 is over 30... one in mani is over 13... so you do the math and calculate how is it possible to die with only 26 damage per shot and have 50% chance to miss with 45 dci mage??

    Stop whining and adapt it.. if you die to an archer 1 v 1 with your mage, then time to learn how to time your spell, i never have any chance to die 1 v 1 to any archers or warriors with my mage even with my wooping 15 dci spell channel weapon only.

    By saying this, you're trying to encourage more gang bang situation which not everyone could offer a zerg alliance in behind
     
  3. jinny

    jinny Guest

    As I said, 6 additional damage is just from 100 tact, anat, 90DI archer without using honor on themselves. So if my guess is correct (the 10% bugged damage on quiver of rage cannot be resisted by AR), the damage difference between quiver of rage and other quiver can up to 7-9.

    I simply raise the issue out because I don't think 10% direct damage from quiver of rage is intended. I believe DEV will judge if this issue should be fix.
     
  4. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    Aye, they should fix this one straight away, dont worry bout the scripters and the dupers...those are just small time things.

    God.
     
  5. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    You've noticed something which, if I remember what I read right, was an intentional part of the quiver's design. I recall that the quivers deliberately were made to cause 10% direct damage (meaning, does not butt up against any particular resist). Deliberate meaning: not a bug.

    I am told that there was a bug with the quiver of rage that was fixed long ago, you had to do a specific action related to the quiver and then do Bushido lightning strike to actuate the bug. Sometimes when people talk about the quiver bug for extra damage, I think that's the one they mean, and that one doesn't work any more.
     
  6. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
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    dismount should be remove from uo:/
     
  7. Fox (Europa)

    Fox (Europa) Guest

    No bug. The devs explained its direct damage. Get over it.
     
  8. I Disargee about dismount... They should make it so ppl with faster ping can't out run others in a fight. The game was not based around whom has the fastest connection after-all. Melee weapons that have a long reach should be able to hit running mages and archer for 2-3 spaces,, Dagger and such are close combat. A halberd is NOT.

    There should be a cap on ALL pvp damage at 35 as they stated before!!
     
  9. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    I run all 70s on both my blue dexxer and my red dexxer and neither of them take the kind of damage mentioned here. If anything archers are by far one of the easiest templates to deal with on either of those characters. A good mage is much much harder to beat compared to any archer template I have come across.
     
  10. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Let me point out firstly, I want bugs fixed and exploits dealt with. That's the intention of my own thread. Not nerfing. However I feel I've provided all information I could and am done reporting the 2 things I find bugged which are; Moving Shot damage and archery over-cap damage without DI items on pure shots... So why don't we also discuss Archery more widely here..?

    I'll say the following things once more as it is crucial information, and as a reminder regarding my case. The guys I reported had no DI. I've explained this. None of them had DI or any other damage augmenting items or abilities or consumables.

    I cannot believe Archery was intended to do 30 and sometimes a random 51 damage just out of nowhere, with no items etc. especially since I cannot perform this on Test Center myself. I cannot replicate this in no way. KR makes it too easy for me to know 100% what to try and replicate.

    I cannot believe Moving Shot was intended to do THE SAME numbers and cannot replicate that either under the premises I had it happen to me on my shard, Quiver or not. I concluded the Quiver is part of the exploit, but something else must be going on. Maybe I'm wrong and it's just the Quiver acting crazy.

    Now... Personal observations, you might want to ignore them.

    * If Archers can reach the damage cap so easily through legit means something must be out of balance, even more so about Moving Shot unless it's a bug too like you calculate Jinny.

    * First Resist and now Parry are becoming skills you cannot survive without in PvP and MOST templates have NO ROOM anymore- Oh and we're getting more skills with Stygian Abyss. We're in for some mind-numbing template reworking soon. People already demand another 100-120 skill points and I find myself agreeing.

    * To top it off, DCI doesn't cut it against Archery.

    * Why does only Archery have this 10% of damage which cannot be resisted if you are correct? Hm. They can even drink potions without dropping their weapons.

    * Aren't Archers getting EVEN MORE damage from Velocity after the patch? Can't we first fix the exploits and THEN give MORE power to Archery?
     
  11. I'm fairly sure (as others have said) they explained the direct damage part was intended some time ago. I think the problems with specials in PvP most noticeably with Archery is the ability to use heal stopping specials repeatedly (namely mortal) I compare it to fighting a dp dexxer without cure pots. Your taking damage and are blocked from healing in the rare case you get it to wear off/cure it (before dying I mean) they can do it again straight away there should be a much longer cool down on re-using some specials imo.
     
  12. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    Quiver of Rage info here - that extra damage is untyped (and therefore unresistable.) The bug involved is that it's not displayed in the properties tooltip, but the damage itself is intended.
     
  13. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Jeremy :

    That's 1 of the bugs involved and is the least important, I didn't even notice. Here, let me explain as best as I can what I have been experiencing lately, what I reported 2 characters for;

    >They hit for 31-33 *without* wearing Damage Increase items against 70 Resist with a single normal shot.
    Jinny reached 33 BUT with 90% DI!
    Jinny did not have 120 Anat/Tact but I doubt even then you can reach that number *without* DI on items. If I am wrong, do tell! :popcorn:

    >They randomly reach 51. NON-CONSECUTIVE AND NON-LIGHTNING STRIKE. I doubt that is intended, I can PM you the character's name right now as I've already reported them since I started my thread- And it wasn't Honour because that particular guy was Red.

    >They reach 30+ damage with Moving Shot, and in essence they perform Moving Shot with a crossbow. I see them flipping weapons real fast while running by the way. Constantly. Maybe it's just a graphics bug, I use KR. But it's only them. :stretcher:

    >If they aren't using Moving Shot then they are using a bug to fire on the run using a crossbow!!

    Jeremy if all this is working as intended, including what I mention here precisely then I think Archery needs to be nerfed to put it simply.

    There would be too many advantages if all this is working as it should if we put Balanced, non-resistable damage, Velocity, excessive damage output per shot and Moving Shot in the equation.
    Unless we want to make this like Resisting Spells Vs. Casters, forcing non-archery templates to have Parry or die... That makes no sense either though, there are not enough skill points for all this hassle.. Should we all have Archery?

    And to all the puppy-eyed, over-worred Archers;
    :heart:IF THERE IS NOTHING WRONG OR IMBALANCED WITH ARCHERY THEY WON'T NERF IT, WE ARE JUST DISCUSSING A POSSIBLE EXPLOIT. DON'T YOU TRUST THE DEV TEAM ANYMORE?:heart:
     
  14. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    Just to be sure - what kind of weapon are you talking about?
     
  15. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    It amazes me how some people think because a property is not listed on the item they think it is bugged!! The quiver of rage was intended to have 10% direct dmg and as such plz stop thinking that it is a bug or an exploit (IT'S NOT)
    If anything the missing property on the quiver is the bug not the dmg it deals if they should fix anything with the quiver of rage its the fact that its missing the property though it was called a hidden property for a reason!! IT'S HIDDEN!!
     
  16. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Jeremy, the issue here is archers are overpowered now in PVP. Not only can they circumvent timers to avoid specials penalties but they also get the bonus from the quiver of rage as well as the upcoming damage for velocity.
    If you take into consideration that the development team made it impossible to craft double hit spell weps I do not see how you can justify the added damage from the quiver of rage AND velocity.

    The scales are still tipped towards necro mages and archers in pvp atm, and as such it would be nice if the balance were shifted again to allow more templates to be able to compete. Bumping velocity into the dmg mix is just going to create archer online again. *sighs*

    Dont think so? Please peruse through many of the guilds @ UO.com and look at the rising number of characters using archery. History in UO should teach us to look at these numbers in relation to the upcoming anti-nerf.

    To add true balance I hope you show love to the magery template. Perhaps an item to add an additional 10% SDI to the straightmage template or perhaps allowing more SDI in PVP. (necromage need not recieve this, much akin to how chiv casting is lowered when combined with over 60 magery.)
     
  17. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Many of us feel it is bugged because the amount of damage it delves out is skewed in relation to the game wide dmg table. For magery to get 10% bonus to SDI we need an entire skill (scribe) @ GM...an archer only needs to slap on a minor arti quiver. Add in the upcoming velocity change and suddenly a dismount wep hits for...

    dmg
    dismount
    rage dmg
    velocity
    hit spell

    So yes, I can see where many people are in an uproar over fixing the quiver. With 120 HP people will be able to kill you with 2 shots once the changes go live. *sighs*
     
  18. Parry?

    DCI?

    I'm doubtin two shots. I even doubt two hits.
     
  19. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I have no room for parry but do have wrestle and 70 DCI (for HLD). I also carry a HLA mage wep in case of splinters, and even with HLA in effect I have been hit for 10+ shots in a row...(120 wrestle with the 70 dci mind you!)

    If you consider in a dismount doing 60+ dmg combined with an armor ignore for 35...quiver for 7...hit spell for 15...and velocity for 5...thats 122+ dmg from two shots!!!! Even if it were 100 that is more dmg than any other template can dish out in two hits in the entirety of the game! (this is with 70 phys resist mind you as well...so the dmg would only go up with lower resist.)

    I suggest that before you reply you go check test for yourself. I am not blowing smoke, just making a statement following my own testing. I really do dislike it though when people are unwilling to check for themselves but are still wililng to debunk others testing. If you arent hitting people often with an archer now you are doing something wrong, either with your template or else your equipment. (fix it, biuld char on test, then come back and discuss...otherwise....pfft!)
     
  20. jinny

    jinny Guest


    My test was conducted using heavy crossbow
    It's amazed to hear that the direct damage is intended, the design might be ok before bows can be crafted to have hit spell, ssi, di, hci, HLD, them all, or at least most of them on one bow. Myself pvp with both mage and archer, unless you have parrying and enough dex, it is not a good choice to fight someone who can hitting 41 damage (this amount is confirmed in another test with my friend using honor self + DI + 120 tact/anat) per moving shoot to a 70 resist suit. Please be reminded that moving shoot cost minimal mana if archer is in human form.
     
  21. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Take that 41 damage, add 15 dmg fireball, 6 dmg velocity...and you suddenly have a two hit kill PK template again. (I really hope something gets toned down before this hits all the shards....else ima pwn you all with an archer!) WOD archer without the WOD! *snickers*
     
  22. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    ***************************************************
    ***************************************************
    **
    **
    **
    **
    S!ckLoveR: if you're still reading this thread:

    YES THIS IS AN EXPLOIT RIGHT NOW, exactly what you describe, and it's unrelated to the quiver of rage.


    --------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------

    Jeremy: if you're still checking this thread: At least one bug report with exact instructions on how to do this exploit was submitted some months ago, if you think it should be re-sent just give the word.
    **
    **
    **
    **
    ***************************************************
    ***************************************************
     
  23. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    The heavyx is an interesting weapon. It has the hardest base-level hit of all the archery weapons in the game, and it's also the slowest firing archery weapon. None of it's specials afford you extra damage, though, its two specials being dismount and moving shot, and it's range is short compared to bows. The combo of dismount and moving shot on the same weapon make the weapon one which an archer may choose to hold onto during a fight and not switch off of. They dismount the person and then chase them on foot, and with both people on foot and the archer able to toggle moving shot without switching weapons, there's a chance that the archer might get to finish off the kill. That chance depends on if the person being chased has built up their DCI, and on the luck of the numbers rolls, it's by no means a guarenteed kill.

    120 tactics 120 anatomy plus 100% DI as used on a heavy crossbow, assuming reasonable strength on the archer, represents the extreme maximum single-shot damage that's possible with an archer without using a damage-increasing special (such as concussion blow). I'm not surprised to hear 41 damage coming off of a heavy in that circumstances. But that damage amount can't be viewed independently of the real-world PVP template considerations that would be required to create it.

    PVP archers who carry that much DI and strength and have that many skill points put into Anat and Tactics will tend to be forced to sacrifice other things. Things like this: If you want max DI, you may be equipping the 20% DI tally instead of the totem of the void, or you are using Stormgrips and the resists on the grips are limiting what you can do with the rest of your gear. Maybe you have both the DI tally and stormgrips, which means your mr and lmc situation will not be as maximized as it could be.

    The complications and balances of this thing go on and on; consider HCI, DCI, DI, MR, LMC, +stat items and the resulting swing speeds/heal speeds, meditation templates vs. focus ones, and items which add skill points (headdress, +skill jewels)... You can't take a basically PVM type archer with simplistic mana needs, build up his damage to where it would be the theoretical max, and point at his heavy crossbow's damage as being some sort of evil thing for PVP.

    It's not all on the archer's plate either: the targets have the option of building up high DCI. If someone is running around with no DCI to speak of, an archer who has gone to a ton of work to make his template carry high HCI and high DI probably deserves to be able to get kills off of that person.

    As it is now, the combo of high DCI and high parry on someone makes archers largely incapable of getting kills on that person. The archer can stack his damage amounts as high as he likes and it makes no difference, the archer won't hit frequently enough to build enough damage per second to get a kill.

    A PVP archer's single-shot damage amounts by no means exist in a vaccuum, there's more to it than just that.
     
  24. yeah cuss the rage quiver tagerts resit and the infinity is blessed man just think of it and learn the game before posting dumb posts
     
  25. jinny

    jinny Guest

    Nice input, but when armor ignore/ lighting strike etc is capped at 35 damage, I doubt why DEV would like to see 41 damage "moving" shoot. 120 archery tact anat healing rs only cost you 600 skills pt, and you get a running cannon which cappable to do 50+ damage (with hit spells/ velocity) /moving shoot with 5 mana, plus 100 skills to put in ninja/ hide/ or other weap skill to disarm. Besides, just look at the pvp archers and you should know 100 DI high HCI HLD ain't that hard to get too in this day. I really can't feel there's much for an archer to sacrifice to get this 50+ damage running shoots.
     
  26. AZ-

    AZ- Guest

    Dismount does do extra damage. Something like "you take extra damage as you are forced from your mount". Kthnxbye.
     
  27. Get 120 Parrying with 45 dci.... Archers will never kill you....


    Instead of crying NERF NERF NERF, let's look at how you could counter an archers ability to kill you.


    People often times never want to change their play style or template to counter someone elses....
     
  28. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    Yeah the message says that, but I've never felt like whatever extra damage that weapon may be doing during the dismount affects how I use the weapon. I can't choose to use that special whenever I specifically want extra damage because if someone has been dismounted by the special, you can't repeat the special on them, and you also can't be mounted while doing it. Those things kill the practical use of the weapon for expressly damage-increasing purposes. This contrasts with weapon specials that can be used with strategic timing to do increased damage exactly when the archer wants to see it. I'm thinking of concussion blow, double strike, armor ignore, lightning arrow (sometimes helpful but too mana expensive) and the double shot on the Yumi if you're mounted.
     
  29. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Archers and Tamers, the easiest chars in UO to play.

    That simple fact should make them the least powerful, but instead EA seems determined to turn everyone into an archer or tamer or both.

    Look at the properties only available on bows;
    Where are the velocity or balanced properties for melee weapons?
    Where is the ability to enhance melee weapons with more SSI or HCI like archery? No instead all we can do is move the damage types around :rant2:

    Look at all the overpowered pets added to the game in the last few years;
    Rune Beetle
    Hiryus
    Doggies
    Dread Warhorses
    Greater Dragons

    Can I please have a sword or spell that does 50 every hit, followed by a 70 point non-resistable fireball that will hit you from 3 screens away?
     
  30. Fox (Europa)

    Fox (Europa) Guest

    As a long-term archery player I have suffered nerf after nerf and adapted time and again over the last couple of years. How about instead of whining about archers you try the same?

    An over-powered template is one that cannot be defended against in any way and/or cannot be killed at all. You can completely avoid ever dying to archers by adapting your characters and as archers can't have parry they are easy to kill by some templates so archers can't be over-powered.

    The bottom line is that the ones whining about archers are those that use a maxxed-out offensive character and then scream for nerfs when they get killed by archers.
     
  31. jinny

    jinny Guest

    lol and I smell of many 4x damage moving shoot lovers here too? After all, I never say archer is overpowered, but simply equip a specific quiver can do 7-8 more damage in a normal shoot doesn't really make sence to me. Can mage get a quiver to add such damage on spells, or can warrior throw their weapon and do the same damage output to ranged target? For those speaking of mage should get 45dci and parrying to fight against the running cannon archers, parrying do require 80 dex to be efficient, and how much mana a mage would left after maintained themselves with 80dex? Noneed to mention once you get hurted your dex/block rate droped too.
     
  32. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Archer may not be overpowered but they are unquestionably one of the most power templates (archer 4/6 chiv healing RUNNER archer especially) we have in UO that also requires very little player skill.

    The proof is that a lot of pvmers/trammies that have never pvped started out with an archer and they do pretty decent IF they get really good weapons and gears against even the top level mage. In fact I recommand archer chiv dexer template to all of my trammie friends on my shard because they all wanted to try to pvp but mage/necro is way too complicated for them and melee dexer cant exactly keep up with all the speedhackers thesedays. I recommand them archer dexers heads down. All it really requires is a decent suit with at least 40hci and some hld and hit fireball/magic arrow, a decent connection and knowing when to run. In comparsion to tamers archer is also very useful in killing single boss type mobs like a champ and they take very little risk and are very easy to train.

    This is not a bad thing. This gives all the new pvpers that had almost no chance to even survive in UO PvP a chance to experience the "dark side" of UO. And that's p[robably why DEVs made archers so powerful because of their nature, easy to play.

    If we look at it. Archers get quivers, that gives them 10% EXTRA total damage DONE (not damage increase)and w/ quiver of rage that's 10% ADDITIONAL UNRESISTABLE damage on top of the 10% modified damage. Then archer also gets the only double hit spell weapons velocity + hit spell AND balanced stat that helps them chug. A lot of archer comes in and complained about how they dont have disarm and bleed... then I suppose all the melee dexer can come in and complain how archers can do RANGED mortal, RANGD concussion, RANGED double strike, RANGED armor ignore and also RANGED and INSTANTLY HIT Dismount(bola carries 3 second delay and can run out of its range), moving shot makes them able to chase people down and shooting at them running full speed continuously with a very good connection or speedhack.

    Archers are fun to play, and it doesnt require all the focus on timing ect. It's a very good and relaxed pvp class. Two-hit kill from an archer is not unusual (if you spend enough time in fel).

    Currently in UO pure mage is not viable template. UO is not mage online for many years. Rightnow UO is Archer/Tamer and maybe NECROMAGE online but never again mage online.

    A lot of things in PvP needs to be looked into. I believe most archer players knows and plays archer because they are easy and it WORKS, it works better than most of other classes.

    Lets dont turn this into a flame. So what archers dont take skills to be good they make good challenge for many other classes who prefer pvp to be challenging. But yea archers took some nerfs but they are still way more powerful than most of other classes in UO.
     
  33. Mythic

    Mythic Guest

    Anyone want to fight an archer in honorable combat, Hell I dont use balanced bows or UOA for that matter, dont know how to speedhack. I do have a decent connection though. I fight Honorably but I wont rez Murders sorry. Im on LS And Im down all the time.
     
  34. well be nice if they would fix the bug that u can mount a ride that has be posioned or m,ortaled that would be nice like i said the qivers target differmnt resit and it just that simple
     
  35. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest


    what about there strength ? maybe they have it maxed out, allowing for harder hit's :)

    33 without 50's with , whats the big deal ? mages hit 70's with flame strike sometimes.
     
  36. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest


    maybe while PvP'ng but when PvM'ng you should be able to use your specials more.
     
  37. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest



    wait ..
    haven't ya'll been crying forever for PvP changes ??
    isn't PvP to 'easy' not fun etc.... i've read alot thru the years...

    well geez sounds like this might add some chalenge to PvP'ng if it's true...


    but also, not all of that is going to hit 100% of the time either..
    rage doesn't hit every time, nore does being balanced or velocity , fireball,lightning,arrow,hit area.... it never hit's all the time , every time.
     
  38. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest

    see the thing is your worried you won't be able to compete in the so called PvP world because of this.
    totaly forgetting there are far far far more people who don't PvP who it will effect more.

    see us old timer's remember something, .. one of the best UO slogan's there was ...
    'the ever changing worlds of Ultima Online'

    and
    rated (18+)
     
  39. Erekose

    Erekose Seasoned Veteran
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    QFT

    Obviously they are putting minimal resources into developement as it is compared to their other games. Let's not distract what little attention UO is getting away from the really serious, game killing bugs.