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Radient Scimitar vs. Scimitar

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by Lord Chaos, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Which to use...

    Radient Scimitar has Whirlwind, which of course is useful when lots of enemies.

    Scimitar on the other hand has higher DPS, double strike and paralyzing blow.

    Any input would be appreciated.
     
  2. If you're not going to whirlwind, why not go with higher DPS and use a Rune Blade?
     
  3. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Rune Blade is two handed.
     
  4. You didn't say anything about rules....
     
  5. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Then use the Elven Machete. And Paralyze is useless for PvM. (and double strike is usually a bad LS critical)
    Leafblade has the same DPS as Machete, but has better specials.

    But the highest DPS for a 1-handed weapon is Diamond Mace.
     
  6. Double Strike far surpasses LS in certain situations.

    For example on renowned ratmen I can Double Strike every swing for a combined 300ish, with LS I get 1 in 5 hits doing 200ish. With Counter Attack going off between swings with Double Strike that can be doubled again. (Obviously you can Counter Attack with both, but as Double Strike does more damage to start with it widens the gap.)

    Also the highest 1h DPS is Soul Glaive, then Viking Sword/Hammer Pick.
     
  7. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    @OP

    it is not a case of either-or, most melees carry multiple weapons for different things. my sampire carries a black staff for whirlwind and a ubws leafblade for bosses.

    my archer carries 5 bows.... or DID carry 5 bows until i accidentally dumped one in an unravel bag and unraveled it last night!! :((((((((((
     
  8. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Well, it is if you want to imbue high end slayers...can't make a dozen different weapons in different types.
     
  9. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    True, but you realize... every double strike saves... 1.25 seconds.
    It may add up to a good amount, but i can't consider it worthwhile since it wont help defeat something you couldn't already, just makes it slightly quicker.

    A Critical hit on Slasher of Veils or the Renowned Wyvern, on the other hand, can save your life... say the half second between consecrate weapon wearing off and recasting it.

    Granted, but Melee and Ranged are two entirely different arenas and this post was about Melee in general and Swordsmanship specifically, and Vikings Sword and Hammer Pick are too slow to be very useful. Would get killed more often by the delay between attacks for a sampire... equivalent to a delay between healing, with slower weapons.

    ... you do know that DPS means "Damage per Second" right? Viking sword and hammer pick are by far inferior damage per second-wise
     
  10. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Leafblade is a fencing weapon :p

    Elven Machete has crap specials.
     
  11. Not if it has UBWS....
     
  12. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    As does the scimitar :)
    Most specials aren't very important in PvM.
     
  13. You still leech off both hits and can still Consecrate so this really doesn't counter my point.

    They are not too slow they can reach the same speed as Diamond Mace. He didn't say it was for a sampire (not that it makes a difference if it was).

    He didn't say it was specifically about melee either (are you confusing two threads you're reading?), and even if he had, Throwing can be used close quarters.

    They're not inferior at all, they can reach the swing cap just the same as the Diamond Mace and have higher base damage, that makes them higher DPS.
     
  14. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Well, they can reach the same speed, but that rate isn't nearly as sustainable with the 3.75 speed weapons than it is with the 3.0 Diamond mace.
    The slower of the mentioned weapons require sustaining stamina above 180 (with 60 SSI) while the diamond mace requires only above 90. Keeping stamina permanently above 180, while fighting anything that's challenging, isn't realistically possible. The speed would inevitably drop, and lower the actual damage output.
    Not to forget with a diamond mace one could save the dex/stamina put into achieving 180+ stamina and put it into other areas, such as Str increase, or other properties, which would even further widen the range of realistic damage output.

    True, I inferred it from the fact that he was comparing two melee weapons. Generally would indicate that ranged weapons weren't being considered, but it's entirely possible if he was using a gargoyle Bladeweaver/Swordsman. Not enough information in the original post to determine the best information I could have given. *shrugs*

    Was unclear, against heavily armored opponents, like those, Critical strike is superior in that situation. Opponents with greater than 50 resist take more damage, and you'll receive more benefit from leeches with a critical strike than with a double strike. That's assuming both double strike hits actually land, assuming you have 75% chance to hit your opponent you'd actually do 12.5% less total damage overall [-25% of 50 resist is 12.5%]. But since there's no such thing as a "75% hit" (you either hit or miss), when you do miss you do half damage, and the chances of that miss aligning with a momentary need for the extra damage (for extra healing) increases with the length of the battle, and since tough opponents typically take a much longer time to kill, it further underscores the actual superior performance of a critical strike in those circumstances.
    ... to say nothing about 70s resists, etc.

    This doesnt matter for non-sampire characters.
    Actually to be fair, double strike does increase the chance of ML and SL going off, to a reduced effect, but still. (with SL being more important than ML in this circumstance because if one's low on mana, they're not going to be using a high-mana-cost special like double strike)

    And this only matters for heavily armored opponents, for speed killing weaker monsters, double strike is superior.
     
  15. Yes it is. Remove Curse & Stamina Leech serve that purpose very well. Aside from which you don't need to be permanently above 180, even if you were only above every other swing you would still out damage 1 in 5 criticals with Double Strike.

    And again, he didn't say what he was fighting.

    Your argument is akin to saying any fast weapon has a higher DPS than a slower heavy hitter, despite when properties are taken into account they can swing at the same.
     
  16. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Think you mean Divine fury instead of Remove Curse? Though Remove curse would be useful for... removing "Curse" which would also have an effect on swing speed. (unless the char has resist)
    Max stamina leech is 50%, so that'll be 2 hits on average that'll be swinging below max speed, when fighting something that does tons of damage (50-70ish), and can lower stamina by huge amounts, it'll drastically affect effective swing speed.
    Wasn't arguing about his specific situation with this section of the post, was merely rating general usefulness.

    ... with Feint it might be close, but none of the weapons mentioned have Feint.
     
  17. No I mean Remove Curse - you were commenting on how hard it is to stay above 180 Stamina against certain stuff - on mine I have 190 Stamina and Resist yet the Slasher, just for example, can still take off 11.

    Aside from Stamina Leech (which I find more than enough to stay full), these are 1h weapons we're talking about, so you can Total Refresh to full anytime you need.
     
  18. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Hm, even 11? oh, he probably has over 120 eval?

    Oh, true, I keep forgetting about potions. That'd even it out a bit, but unless the character is designed specifically for this purpose, Diamond Mace generally would be better.

    Of course with Armor Ignore on those weapons, it puts an entirely different variable into the scenario. Especially since one can easily, in wraith form, chain AI on the Slasher until he's dead. Every single hit too, since his mana pool is 10k.

    ... as I write this... makes me think a wraith form fighter with a leafblade could potentially solo the Slasher.
    Too bad I'm not a fencer, and good leafblades of ease are hard to find. (healing would be helpful too, for the Paralyze Hailstorms)
     
  19. I think it has 150 Eval, something I Lored recently did, though I only had 100 Resist anyway.
     
  20. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    I can't believe none of you pointed out the most important difference between the two.

    At 150 dex you can forgo SSI on the Radient Scimitar completely and get another mod.

    I was thinking:

    <slayer>
    DI
    HLA
    HLM
    HLS
     
  21. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    It is hard to stay 150 dex against hard hitting monsters. Maybe if you are talking about the first 2 or 3 levels of a spawn, ok, but any more than that I accept the fact that my stamina will temporarily drop into the 100-120 range and have to be leeched back up. I use 15 SSI on my Radiant Scimitars (+5 from Turquoise Ring to get 20 SSI on my suit) for this reason. It uses a weapon mod slot, but it opens up imbuing intensity room to put super slayers and make leeches higher on the weapon.

    -OBSIDIAN-
     
  22. Don't take damage cushion into account much do you?
     
  23. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    HLA would reduce damage taken, but what else are you talking about?
     
  24. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Could do the same thing with
    +5 SSI Turq ring
    +5 SSI Ranger Cloak
    +10 SSI Animated Tinker Leggings or Daimyo's Helm
     
  25. Having enough SSI to account for damage taken, so when you get hit for 60 points of damage with no stamina leech you don't lose swing speed.
     
  26. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    It already has Stamina Leech
     
  27. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
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    The leech doesn't go off every hit popps, leaving you at less than cap.
     
  28. Yup. It's been known to go 4-6 times in a row without stamina leech going off once.
     
  29. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Can be rectified with Refresh Pots... but those can get heavy and/or run out.

    (i'm actually replying to LC through your quote)
     
  30. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    So whats your point? You said it didn't have stamina leech and I said it did...and now you want to argue the effectiveness of stamina leech?

    The tiny changes in SSI vs. a whole mod (like HCI) is another debate, but its definetly worth it.
     
  31. What conversation are you reading? I didn't say any of this.
     
  32. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
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    God you're daft.......

    I'm writing this sssllllooowwwlllyyy so hopefully you can read it and then COMPREHEND it. The stamina leech will not go off every time you hit the mob, leaving you subject to losing stamina when you take damage from the mob. Can you understand this concept? You WILL NOT LEECH STAMINA WITH EVERY HIT, and thus, WHEN YOU TAKE DAMAGE YOU WILL LOSE STAMINA AND FALL BELOW THE STAMINA NECESSARY TO SWING AT YOUR CAP. This is why you put SSI on a weapon.rolleyes:
     
  33. NickyDishes

    NickyDishes Guest

    im mace and use ubws radiant......every mace weapon with whirlwind is 2 handed.....now u cant evade but all i have to do is evade with my diamond mace then switch back to my ubws radiant and still can evade.....i hope the devs dont change this cause its a life saver with spell casting spawns without resist