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Rampant scripting? Come take a look.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Nematode, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. Nematode

    Nematode Guest

    Go to Luna bank in Lake Austin.

    There ull see a scripted beggar in the Holy Mages' room, begging away 24/7. Im there now with my horde minion to pick up all those coins that are dropped on the floor from an apparent overload.

    And yes, Ive reported.
     
  2. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    They tend to pop up when attention is focused on "new stuff".

    Hit Despise lizardmen area its a hoot.
     
  3. Moreeg

    Moreeg Guest

    I recall one of these on Cats not long ago... as well as a necro scripter. The necro managed to somehow walk through a wall, which brought him WAAAAYYY too much attention and he was dealt with!

    Im not a power gamer, myself. I have more fun getting there than when Im there, so I dont rush to make gains.
     
  4. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    yeah, it's like vacation! the 20 hour drive is WAY more fun than actually being there! ;)

    anyway, who cares if someone is scripting begging?! like i asked the guy complaining about taming of atl or wherever... does it hurt you? do you feel like you have to be a hall monitor?

    stop wasting time paging GM's and whining to devs about harmless activities.

    it's like 911.

    because of people like you, i end up being #25 in line when i have a legit problem (like my boat is completely stuck in the middle of the ocean) or (like my HH won't accept item insurance).

    let it be. when it really begins to affect your game play, make a big deal about it. until then, stop wasting people's time with your crybabying.
     
  5. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Yea it's pretty blatent now. No one cares.
    Soon we'll all be playing in virtual test shards where you can set your skills and say "give resources" since there doesn't seem to be anything the dev team can do about it.

    It's kinda funny when their script gets messed up and you see them spam "245" (or some other arbitrary number) over and over.
     
  6. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    saw a guy near the bods in luna saying over and over again "i cannt recall from that object" for like 30 minutes.

    funny.

    did i page? no.

    why? it was funny... but it was not harmful.

    maybe he'll eventually get a runic hammer i need and sell it for much less than he would have if he had to actually DO the work himself.

    or maybe someone else will buy it and make that perfect set of arms i need.

    either way, he's not hurting me.


    now, if he was walking through trees or walls or duping something or whatever, you bet your sweet arse i'd be paging and complaining and pitching a fit.
     
  7. I care!

    And I do report them and try to stop them when I can. And I will NOT wait until it hurts my game play to try to intervene. And it is NOT a waste of people's time to try to stop scripting. It's the right thing to do. Call me a cry baby if you wish, it won't stop me from being the hall monitor when I see it happening.

    By the way, using your logic, a boat is about what, 10K gold? In the time it takes a GM to respond to you "stuck boat" page, you could have earned 6 times that out hunting. A stuck boat is not game stopping and hardly worth the effort to report. Stop wasting a GM's time.
     
  8. I fail to see the difference between cheating by scripting and cheating by duping. Either way, if you buy from that person who is cheating, you are supporting cheating.
     
  9. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    One of the great things about Siege is that scripters can be dealt with in those public areas. A few GE pots or a poison and a flame strike...and presto. Scripter is taken care of...la
     
  10. heh... unless you accidentally throw it too close to a guard at the same time, then it isn't so great.
     
  11. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Question. Is he still there after you paged. Did gm showed up as ked if they where there and they answer yes they were there and leave will you continue to hunt him? And grief him even if he has being verified to be at the comp running a macro and letting things drop when over weight to gain skill faster instead of leaving somewhere? Sadly the gm dont tell you if they checked but gm do show it's that they are not unattended so the gm must leave just dont tell you about it. If he still there after you pged then rest assure he is attended and you can go on whith youre regular play. If you continue to harass him even after you already paged then you are considered a griefter. Im hoping youre not a griefter and paged once and left right?
     
  12. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Do it nekked...no harm no foul. Just wait 2 minutes and repeat until the scripter is taken care of.

    On a side note, I did create a thread here that does relate to this issue. I'm curious what folks think...la
     
  13. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    frankly I've had a blast since the stealing changes brought all the trammy scripters out to fel. It's like a whole sale slaughter. I collected 15k bottles and thousands of blank scrolls for my crafters. They all come out of the wood work with new changes and killing them is funny.
     
  14. Dryke GL

    Dryke GL Guest

    Wow.

    If I steal a car from someone totally unrelated to you...insured by a different company than you use...somewhere far, far away from where you live...

    ...it affects you because it impacts insurance rates.

    If I script all day to get free stuff (or even just to raise my skill while I do something else)...

    ...it affects you because it decreases the value of whatever I get by increasing its supply (whether it is gold, objects, or skill). It can also affect you when EA decides to 'fix' the particular problem with the hammer instead of the knife. Example: Ore/Wood spawn randomizations. Example: Heartwood runic rate reduced.

    These activities are not harmless, nor are they a 'waste of time' to report. They are every bit as legitimate as either of the concerns you mentioned.
     
  15. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I love it when people try to relate scripting in a game to:

     
  16. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    Oh so.... it doesn't affect you, in your own estimation, in a direct way.... so if anyone else has a problem with flagrant violation of TOS, they're a whining crybaby?

    And I love how now it's players' fault that there is almost zero help/GM attention in-game.

    P.S., EA simply ignoring you when stuck on a boat would be a violation of the TOS. Somehow I think you'd have a problem with that sort of violation of the gameplay terms no?

    "It affects me" / "It doesn't affect me" as your basis for what's acceptable isn't much of an argument. CERTAINLY not near enough an argument to go off and attack people who find issue with something you don't care about.
     
  17. Dryke GL

    Dryke GL Guest

    I did not "try" - I succeeded.

    I love it when people try to rationalize poor behavior.
     
  18. Sorry, but there is a flaw with your statement. It is only griefing AFTER the target player has asked the other player to stop and the target player has tried to remove him/herself from the situation.

    Otherwise, it's called masochism, because the scripter obviously enjoys the attention.
     
  19. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Kind of right but then in that case. Constant paging on a attanded player may be against rule 1 of the roc where it states 1)You may not victimize, harass, threaten, or cause another player unwanted distress or discomfort, as determined by Support Staff.
    As I can see as that being discomfort and distress there used to be also unwanted attention in that sentence. Of course it's up to support staff as said but it's the basics.
    Of course this is just the ROC which is not enforceble in a court of law. But as most players go by paging on people who break the unattended rule in the roc then as long as players dont break a rule to enforce another rule then everything is all good.
    The rule youre refering to is in the harrasment policy which is another thing all together. Griefting means both being harrased and Breaking certain rules of the roc. Not saying this posted did anything like that just saying page and move on if he is still there then the gm confronted him and found he was legit so you did youre part. If he's not there then he was unattended and gm did his part. Either way the op finished his part and any further action to the player will be pushing the envelope.
     
  20. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Just droping in a correction it's not in the TOS directly. The TOS points to the ROC so the breking is of the ROC. Seriously legal law jaggen it's extremly annoying even though the TOS the ROC The harrasment policy non of it is enforsable in court at least in my country. Why didn't they have the Roc in the Tos who knows split into parts?
     
  21. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    The point is, those of you who clearly defend scripting, or engage in it yourselves, habitually depict the issue as "the only real troublemakers here are the people paging a GM when they see unattended scripting. Those players are the true problem."

    This attempt to reverse-whitewash the issue of unattended macroing, which has clearly and repeatedly been condemned as acceptable gameplay strategy by all entities which ever managed UO or issues its various terms of service over the years, is really the core of every argument you guys make to defend scripting.

    You don't really have a leg to stand on. Why not just call a duck a duck? A lot of players use it because it's the easy, lazy way to level up skills that does not require you to spend hours upon hours doing repetitive things in order to raise the skill yourself, manually, in game. You get the same rewards faster, with little or no effort. This is why you do it and why it will never stop, especially since EA cannot, or will not, enforce its TOS. That's really all the more complicated the matter need get. "I did it, I benefit from it, it gets me more with less effort, and I never got banned. And everyone else I know does it, so it's okay." That's the argument in essence. Fine. It's one of those "it helps me so I'm for it even if it directly or indirectly hurts others, is illegal, or breaks rules I agreed to abide by" things that some people will always be able to morally justify. However, progressing from that into attack-- that players who find this behavior to destroy and upend the spirit of fair competition in the game for resources and items and wealth and progress, and force everyone to basically cheat the same way or else be less capable of competing in a closed online environment are the problem, that they are whiners and troublemakers and ruining the game with frivolous GM calls-- that's where you guys really overload and overstretch yourselves.
     
  22. Shioni

    Shioni Guest

    Ive have cached my own friends using scripts in the past and have paged a GM on them. Did they get banned? Nope lol

    My friend paged a GM and said, "I'm using a script is there anything you can do about it?"
    The GM sent a auto response to remind him to read the TOA, but said "Sorry but I cannot help you with this problem."

    Life ant fair either way, paging a GM is 80% a waste of your effort with the reward program out the window.

    No way to really fix the problem, but to balance what a player can and cannot do. Like blocking a recall near mining locations might help slow scripted down at at least make them way more predictable.
     
  23. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    But there comes the grifter who believe everyyone in the world is cheating because they can't do it themselves or dont know why or how. If you see my post I said go and page and continue on whith youre business. I detest grifters,harrassers that's no secret. So I say page if they dont get hauled away then if continue to stick around for 2 weeks paging everywhere you see the character it's straight out grifting. Dont break a rule to enforce another rule thats all there is. Just like don't nerf a skill to make youreself stronger or for revenge.Learn to have fun in the game and if you can't then it's the wrong game youre playing.
     
  24. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Thats just evil. I would only do that to my enemy. Lots of my friends used to or at least still do sell certain things that are illegal in the country I could never go call the cops on them. Hell imagine when i used to be in school going to the dean and telling them that my friends cut class lol.
     
  25. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    Okay. So numerous and rampant cases of obvious, repeatedly observable scripting is not a problem because maybe... someone would get overzealous on reporting and report someone who's not actually AFK.

    Since the person would have a chance to answer if a GM actually pestered them, I fail to see how this would be a problem. But again, you bring up a theoretical, maybe sorta what if this happened!~!!##@#! scenario to justify wrongdoing that goes on right now in the reality plane. ;)
     
  26. archite666

    archite666 Guest

    Why Siege is better.....Created by yours truly.


    [​IMG]
     
  27. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    ROFL...nice...la
     
  28. There's just so much wrong with this statement I wouldn't even know where to start.

    Scripting skills is just as bad as any kind of cheating in UO. Cheating is cheating regardless of who does or doesn't get hurt by it. If a person is willing to risk their account by UM'ing skills, then they'll most likely also be willing to risk their account by scripting and possibly duping anything and everything else in the game, which hurts everyone.
     
  29. Sindris

    Sindris Guest

    While I agree with this to an extent, the fact is I macroed Begging to GM myself from about 75 on up. That said, I don't really know how anyone has ever GM'ed begging any other way. It was tedious and doing it 4 or 5 hours at a time took me DAYS to GM it. Its hard for me to understand why a skill like Begging would be so prohibitively difficult to gain. I can become a legendary smith in a couple days with enough resources, I can GM most melee skills in about the same time. Even magery is easier than begging, that really makes no sense.

    I have never scripted resources or duped anything, but I have no qualms about macroing a skill that is just stupidly hard to get gains in. Honestly, I understand what you're saying here, but skill macroing is really not the Marijuana of the mmorpg world. Its not a gateway drug that leads to duping, resource scripting, identity theft or Cat Juggling. Its just a way to spend less time grinding and more time playing. If you really hate working skills this way then don't do it. If you feel the need the report people, fine whatever, but I will continue to do it as I see fit and I won't get caught. Of course after 11 years, begging was about the only skill I had left to GM anyway. Except maybe forensic eval... Oh! And herding! Someday maybe.
     
  30. Oh, so if you can't GM or 120 a skill in hours then it's ok to UM?

    Sure. Whatever you have to tell yourself to justify it.


    Either way it's still cheating, and done for no reason other than immediate gratification. Taking "Days" to GM something isn't that long of a time, and UM'ing to get it done in hours is nothing short of laziness prompted by greed, as I'm sure it was done for a Halloween event.


    Cheating is cheating. Period. End of story.
     
  31. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Resources...begging requires none to GM...la
     
  32. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Ooooohh!! Art!
     
  33. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Scripting/hacking hurts all of us and the game, if you can't step back and see the big picture, then that is your own lack of vision.
     
  34. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Jumping to the bottom, I agree with Connor_Graham and NuSair.

    Cheating is bad.
     
  35. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    Yeap, and if your going to do at least don't do it in Luna....really, come on your just begging for ban (pardon the pun). Unfortunatly, Luna on some shards have just became scripting central, between the 23 hr non-stop music, begging, and necro/mage/chiv casting, I'm wondering if I run into one of the pillers hard enough, could I knock it out and bring the roof down on everyone (Please Devs :)).
     
  36. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    Agreed (that many skills are ridiculously prohibitive to raise over 75) but there is a long laundry list of things EA has nerfed or made easier in UO throughout the years. Or changed because it was popularly demanded. Simply cheating to get the result you want isn't really appropriate as a first resort, IMHO.

    Did you know, once upon a time, you could not lock stats or skills? True story. Imagine how hard it was to build your ideal character back then. :) In fact, I think maybe it was better that way. You could be near 7xgm, but unless you were careful to never do anything that might raise another skill, you would never keep it forever. So people were less obsessive about that perfect 100/110/125.

    Regarding previous two posts:

    YES Luna is scripted central, I'm glad someone else brought it up first. Sometimes I am recalling there every half hour or so while say working on inscription or making runebooks in my house (which I do completely by hand, btw.) To check the reagent store and what not... and I swear, on Sunday, I saw many of the same people, sitting /standing in the same spot, all day. Not moved an inch. Obviously they're doing "something", or else the game would log them out from idleness. We're talking characters not moving from the same spot for 5.... 8 hours. I logged in later in the night and some of them were still there, same spot, same character. I hear Anh Mi Sah Ko. Anh Mi Sah Ko. With the silent ones, I have no idea what they're doing--- maybe maxing eval int or some other silent skill that doesn't have any sort of character animation.

    But seriously, if a GM did a spot check and asked each apparently idle toon in Luna to respond, and kicked off each one that didn't answer in 60 seconds.... the place would be cleared out. Other than the people laying down vendorhouse runes all day. ;)
     
  37. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    stealing a car is illegal IRL and can land you in prison. scripting in a video game is not.

    HUGE difference.
     
  38. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    The only difference is the level of authority/jurisdiction and the consequences for getting caught.

    The fact that someone is saying "screw the rules, I'm going to break them to bring myself profit" is the same between a scripter or criminal. You may say it's "ridiculous" to compare scripting to say, armed assault. But it's EXTREMELY similar in mindset and rationale to let's say... white collar crime, graft, breaking labor laws......

    You are in essence saying.... something is only bad or wrong in direct proportion to how serious the consequence is. :)

    "It's only a crime if you get caught/punished."
     
  39. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    is it cheating to stand around letting spectrals cast on you to train resist? there's no macro running.
     
  40. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    it's totally different. if you break the rules in a video game the punishment is that you get banned. if they feel like it, EA can ban you for no reason at all.

    obviously they don't do that because it would be bad for business.
     
  41. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    Because of the constent flow of people in Luna and WBB, you can leave a char logged on and the game wouldn't log them out for being inactive. So it makes for a good spot to park a char to burn off murder counts, but usually they are all in the same location so if you mark a rune in a different location you normally don't get your recall spot blocked. If you had a GM start kicking those people, you probably wouldn't have a blue char take a murder count simply because of the 40 hour per count and the char has to be logged on for the full hour for it to count rule.
     
  42. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    That sounds like a problem with being a murderer and wanting to stay "blue." Not with the system or with policy per se.

    But, it's all a moot point anyway. It's fairly clear that there is close to zero actual enforcement by GM's.
     
  43. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    Two years ago I was on the Atlantic shard watching about 10 people training on golems at Luna, and a GM showed up, asked everyone how they were doing. Those that didn't answer got a follow-up question, and if no response then that person and GM disappeared. Couple seconds later, GM came back and went away again, this time with the golem.

    Today, how many fear the GM's? My guess is only a few (maybe those that have always walked the straight and narrow since day one and still remember the days when GM's had "powers"). The fires in Luna might have scaried some people for a while, but now you have people scripting necro right next to the flames. Its been a long, long time since I've heard of anyone getting their account banned or suspended for scripting.
     
  44. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I remmeber that. Though thats when UO had 100k players and not much comp and plenty of money flowing through to hire such enforcement. As well i believe EA havent set there claws in it yet. Though I think im wrong 2 years ago things where already pretty low I guess it was just a old gm that was retiring and pop in to give a last hurrah.
    After the constant nerfs people just couldn't take redoing the characters again and again so they left as well as many other reasons. But I believe nerfs where right there as a main reason because every patch that came out had some sort of nerf for a skill set. And after every patch like clock work populations dwindled.
    Also the burned houses are not of scripters there of dupers. Dupers are horrible people who takes items and using a bad configuration of the server latest patch are able to copy the items they have by simply usualy duing normal things that we do and we don't notice but they notice it and are able to take advantage of the vulnerabilitie. So the 2 werent related.
     
  45. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    Agreed with you that one of the prime reasons people left was because everyone felt like EA couldn't pull their head from their rear end and make a coherent design policy and instead just kept adding quickfixes to "imbalances" which tended to either make things worse, or invalidate dozens of hours of player effort. At the time I was not playing much, and eventually left, there had been cycles of various nerfs to skillsets which had pushed most everybody to retool and start training new skills, and then because so many people had to do this, EA put in power hour so everyone was just logging in for their power hour to get maximum skill gains, and then logging back out. I would say at that point UO felt like a heavy powergamer game and you always felt like you'd have to rebuild your character next patch... or the one after, if you were lucky. GM'ming in UO may not be difficult compared to say getting to level 70 in WOW or Everquest, but it's still too much work to have to treat it like a temporary time investment until the next patch.

    This is why I'm a staunch believer (apparently making me unique at least as far as game design philosophy... certainly not well represented by most game developers) in fine tuning what exists.... rather than slapping in new things, and then trying to rebalance old and new things together after the fact. WOW does this CONSTANTLY and it drives me insane. Let me just give a super generic example that is entirely made up. Rogue class can put 20 points into an "energy attack" talent (as opposed to fire, cold, poison, whatever.) New patch comes out adding tons of new gear types. One is a weapon that adds 300% energy-based bonus to damage........ boom, rogues overpowered all using that talent and weapon type. So they go back and "fix" Rogues so that they cap out at putting 10 points in energy attack. Alright... problem "fixed" but you also just nerfed every single rogue who was levelling up, or didn't have said weapon. This would be a completely typical scenario which happens habitually in WOW.

    Fixes/rebalances to new + old content AFTER THE FACT, rarely work, even when the devs give it any attention at all it usually just becomes a hamfisted quickfix nerf that creates more probs than it solves.
     
  46. ColterDC

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    On a side note....... I got a .1 begging SoT the other day.
     
  47. Sindris

    Sindris Guest


    Laziness? Maybe. But you could say the same thing about the inventor of the cotton gin, or the automobile. People too lazy to walk...

    I'm not here to "justify" anything. I would have to care what people thought. I was just trying to explain WHY I use UM'ing.

    Frankly, wasting hours upon hours playing video games could be considered lazy. Doing anything within a game cannot rightly be considered work. Unless you're a Dev of course. =)
     
  48. Petrify

    Petrify Lore Master
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    Pretty sure we had one on Oceania too, same room.
     
  49. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - You could try to justify laziness and cheating in a video game to be the same as the invention and/or usage of the cotton gin and automobile; but I will not.

    I play games. Games have rules. I follow the rules when I play games.
    If I do not follow the rules when I play games then I am merely taking advantage of my fellow game players, for my personal benefit.
    Cheating is bad.
     
  50. Rosalinda

    Rosalinda Journeyman
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    Yes, I agree. OK, cheating is cheating, but there's a difference between this use of unattended to raise a skill - same as training resist from the spectral spellbinders - and on the other hand, scripting resource-gathering.

    The first one doesn't affect me - no really it DOESN'T!!! - what's the difference to me whether it's attended or unattended?????????

    The second DOES affect me - like, it stops me from gathering in those places. (OK, BE picky and tell me I can gather elsewhere! If you have to raise that point, you won't understand my reply to it, so don't even bother).