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Random Idea 4 Buffing up Mages in PvP....(No words of power seen vs dexxers )

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Vexxed, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    I'd have to say that with the abundance of Valorite Runic Crafted Weapons & Balanced Bows that dexxers are currently the kings of PvP... Mages (Tamer / Necro / Scribe etc) all have their places but this is just my opinion of how things are at the moment... Anyway.... here was my simple idea....


    If you do not have magery you do not see the words of power identifying a spell when a mage begins casting...... It could be simply percentage chance to succeed.... meaning that at Human 20 Magery you have a 20% chance to recognize any other mage casting a given spell & it scales up to 100% at GM magery.. If you Fail that check NO words of power are given so you can still see the Mage performing the casting animation but that's it ( I mean you don't see "Concussion" or "Mortal" come up over a dexxer's head when they toggle a spec....) THOUGHTS ???

    This derives from the good ole days years ago when adding a few speaking lines of the Tilda key ( ~ ) after your spellcast forced the text offscreen so it was never visible. If I hadn't of been playing at that time I wouldn't know how important KNOWING what your opponent casting could possibly be, but it's definately something that makes a difference... This would make the patented Dexxer Tactic of "offscreening" any time an Exp./ FS combo looks to be coming much harder....

    Anyway.. just an idea...

    PS.. I like the idea that this could possibly promote Teamwork... I can just see being in VENTRILLO & having a Mage on your side alerting dexxers to opponents getting up BIG combo's etc..

    EDIT: It occurred to me that the ultimate casting / Mage template that's used for "defining" skill on a mage is a SCRIBE mage so perhaps only characters with
    100 Inscribe
    100+ Magery
    should have 100% chance of identifying an opponents spells... I'm not sure what would be considered balanced for characters without scribe & only having magery.. perhaps 50% ?? who knows..
     
  2. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    uh the only dexers that are over powered are archers. everyone else is fine and balanced.
     
  3. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I like this idea a lot.

    Although I think that people with the Magery skill should be able to see the words 100% of the time from GM Magery up.

    It is very true that we don't know what special Dexers are planning, so why should they know what spell a Mage is casting if they don't have Magery.
     
  4. Green Meanie

    Green Meanie Guest

    cut out the scrib crap and applie this to all casting skills and i like it. I cant tell you how agravating it is to fight a dexer that chugs and uses apples that runs from you anytime you have a spell of explosion or higher preped. as far as identafiying what spell %success = skill so gm mage can see mage spells gm necro can see necro exctra.
     
  5. Vexxed

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    Yeah.. I thought about the necro vs Regular Mage aspect & kinda figured just getting the basic idea out was enough and people would run with it.... I'd say that...

    1) Magery skill determines % chance to see words of power (20 mage = 20% & 100 Magery = 100%)

    2) Necromancy works the same way... (20 Necro = 20% to see Necro spell words of power & 100 Necro = 100% chance)

    Simply having it work as above would mean all Human dexxers only have a 20%chance of knowing what any Mage Template is doing which would make 2 mages who can Xheal yet cannot kill that 1 offscreen Balanced bow chuggin archer have a better chance...

    In a Necro Mage vs Scribe Mage fight.... The necro would have the added benefit of masking (no words of power) 80% (if opponent is human) of his necro spells from his opponent.. which basically means strangle / omen -poison ... Not sure that I like this a whole lot but the idea can be kicked around alot more still.
     
  6. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Most necros have magery, yet some mages dont have necro.

    This is why I think that there should be no distinction in this instance between mages and necros.
     
  7. Vexxed

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    So are you trying to say that Magery should allow you to see Words of power for Both Mages & Necros .... and that Necromancy if you only had that skill for some reason should allow you to see words of power for Mage spells ? If that's what you meant it would be ok I think. It will still give the primary benefit VS Dexxers etc..
     
  8. Mikeee

    Mikeee Guest

    Haha so you are saying that if I'm on my dexxer and sitting near a mage I should just basically drop dead when he is on a horse and casts Exp, Fs, Evil Omen, Pain Spike since I won't see his arms move on horse or see the words?

    Also a mage has the ability to do these specials also. A dexxer doesn't see 'Mage activated disarm' above their head either. Of course chances are anyone in favor of your idea probably doesn't have wrestling and uses a gimp -0 mage wep :)

    Also with weapon skills the second they war you, you are alerted 'Player A is attacking you' whereas a mage can cast several spells that have a delayed effect, effectively giving them 2 spells before you even know you are being attacked. Likewise mages can and do cast spells off screen so that you don't know they have a FS on their cursor, much like the special toggle.

    I think your idea is a neat one but I really don't think the mage spellcasting system is that messed up that this needs to occur. Something that might be a better idea would be as a player with the skills you designated can see another player's mana actively. Likewise on engaging in battle or healing you see their mana above their head. This could be complimented by anatomy allowing you to see hit points in a # above the head. Just trying to contribute to the thread :)
     
  9. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Umm... no.
     
  10. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    How about you have to have 100 scribe to do this plus a 100 hiding words of power. So then the mages that want this will have to cram skills in their templates like most dexxers do, then they will learn what its like to balance a chars skills. Also they must never be armed with a weapon or shield and there armor can only have a total of 60 resists.

    When all that happens then it will be a good idea.
     
  11. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    "There'll be no silly Wand Wavings or Incantations in this class"..

    Severus Snape
     
  12. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    They should both be able to see each others words as long as you have the skill in one of them, either Necro or Magery.
     
  13. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Nah Nah Nah...

    Love the idea btw...

    Necros, can only see necro spells.

    Mages, can only see Mage spells.

    Scribes...can see ALL spells (after all they have the knowledge to write them!)

    EDIT: I do think if this was to happen, explosion would need to give the message of intent before the damage...as soon as it is targeted.
     
  14. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    This is true but the mage would need tactics with the weapon skill, which pretty much messes up a mage template to where they can not compete against another mage or Necro. Where the dexer can compete against both templates evenly. Also the mage suit is designed around mana and not dex so they wont hit too often... the skill on the mage would mainly end up being defensive and not offensive.


    This is true, but a good dexer can have certain special ready and stand next to you before they attack. They can dismount you or take you to over half life in one shot as well as do significantly more damage per hit than a mage can do. My archer can 2 hit kill some people and ive seen many dexer templates that 3 hit kill people... and they swing almost once per second.

    A mage can not 3 spell kill someone unless they are naked.

    But I think that there should be words over the head so that dexers know we are casting, but the words should be random so that you dont know what we are casting... all you know is that we are.
     
  15. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    As much as I like the idea of this thread, I don't think this would really work out unless there was someway of the dexer being able to identify if a mage is casting a spell. I can just see groups of mages ganking dexers before they even know whats going on. So maybe if they implemented a fool proof way of a dexer knowing that a mage is casting a spell but not which one then it might be feasible.

    Kind of like the way spirit speak works. If you don't have enough spirit speak, all that you will see a ghost say is "oOO" instead of "rez".
     
  16. WarUltima

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    There SHOULD be a casting animation for mages even if they are mounted. Making it same animation as chiv spell but in different color, visable but nothing like big hyper red flashes. Like I mentioned many times, in 1v1 a dexer should EVER DIE to a mage if the dexer know "when to run". And it's actually pretty easy and anyone can do it. If you see explosion/FS/Ebolt just bolt out full speed, theres NOTHING the mage can do about it. And if you want to be safer you can start running anytime your HP drops below 80% or even getting struck by lighting spell ONCE if you just dont want to die to a mage EVER.

    The Word of Power for Explosion, Ebolt, FS are basically a red flag that warns the dexer "OFFSCREEN NOW AND NEVER DIE". Today's PvP field dexers who dies to any kind of mage other than tamer mage has no excuse and the cause of their death is most likely "they got cocky". Even if you mute the Word of Power and only show the animation of casting is still plenty for the running happy players. It will probably shift from "I see exp/ebolt/fs preped offscreen now to never die" to "I see him preped some kind of spell, offscreen now to never die"...

    It's sad to see the templates that rely on the most player skill to be the weakest link in 1v1. Great mage can kill a decent dexer with good timing and spell choice (if dexer dont run at ALL). An average joe dexer with good RNG rolls and decent connection can kill a great mage in a few hits. A great (running happy) dexer played right will never die to mage 1v1.

    Mages have been reduced to nothing but buffing/xhealing/fielding bots and are only effective in a group/swarm taking out a called target.

    Edit: Before you comment on how ALL MAGES ARE AUTOMATIC SPEEDHACKERS and double cast FS on the run... tell me in straight face that no dexers hack/script poting/healing ever. And btw theres no hack that makes you cast faster/on the run/double cast while there ARE hacks that helps dexers to stick next to mages easier.
     
  17. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    I don't like the idea of being able to be dumped on without knowing it but it's happened before I'd just chug through it and probably keep my distance from a group of mages.

    Eh, guess it wouldnt be too bad. Give it to 'em.
     
  18. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    That's what she said. LOL
     
  19. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I wonder if it would help by making it to where all spells were insta hit with no delay.. ala explosion spell.

    Or if at least when someone dropped an explode or delayed spell on you, you got an immediate "so and so is attacking you" even though the explode hasn't gone off yet.
     
  20. ColterDC

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    :lame:
     
  21. Rotgut Willy

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    I see and understand the end result the OP is shooting for with this suggestion but I really don't see why non casters should not be able to see Words Of Power. Words Of Power are verbal components of a spell. Anyone who can "hear" should be able to see them. Already, they are not in "plain english".

    But along those lines, I could see an additional skill to supplement magery which could act as LRC as well as removing Words Of Power entirely. For every 20 points in the skill, the mage gets 10% LRC.. something like that. And at Legendary skill level, Words Of Power are no longer necessary. Maybe allow this skill to boost certain other spells.

    This would help to further diversify mages and would (or -might-? I dunno.. I don't play a pvp mage) be balanced by the fact that it requires another dedicated 120 skill points to reap the full benefits.
     
  22. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Whatever they do MAGES NEED SOME LOVE!

    They have stood still in skills and equiptment basically since aos!

    We have lrc and mage weaps...thats pretty much it...PvP wise we also have necro and scribe.
    It seems every week dexxers get a new boost, Bushido, Ninja(to some extent), Balanced bows, runic weapons...probs more but i cant be bothered to name them all ill get angry :p
     
  23. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    That's not right..... :wall:
     
  24. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    I

    Nah, that would be instant death for anyone. The mage would just spam 3 or 4 flamestrikes and it would be game over in a few seconds. Worst part is you couldn't see it coming with the original idea.
     
  25. Wilde1

    Wilde1 Guest


    I would like this if it were "understand" instead of see. I also like the idea of the percentage to understand (up to 100% at GM) what spell is being cast.

    Since the caster is speaking, the caster could appear to speak gibberish if the other party fails the roll to understand the spellspeak. That way, the dexxer (or mage without necro, etc) would know SOMETHING is being cast, just not what exactly that might be.
     
  26. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Not a bad idea but will have to be symbols or a uniform letter like oOoOoO when you're dead. Otherwise it would be easy to pick up on the pattern of gibberish for the same spells unless they randomize it.
     
  27. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    When was the last time you saw a mage get 3 flamestrikes off in a row to kill another player?

    Not an afk player but an experienced pvper. It's just not going to happen that way. Heck I see players live when 3 different people flamestrike them at the same time.

    Also I said there would be words above the mages head, but you just wouldnt know what spell they are casting unless you had the magery skill.

    As others mentioned it could be ghost talk (oOOooO) to everyone who doesn't have magery or necro.
     
  28. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Last time I checked, when a dexxer is mounted, you cannot see if they are in attack mod, the only way ou know is when you see the "you are being attacked by:" text. Why shouldn't that be the case with mages as well?

    I like the idea...la
     
  29. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    So After Reading what people have suggested ... how about this...

    ------------------------------------------------

    3) For those instances when you FAIL to ID the exact spell being cast you instead see

    *Begins Casting a Spell*

    above the head of the caster or some such... This way you can see the obvious part of a mage casting something.. but you don't know what...

    -------------------------------------------------

    It appears a little unclear if people want Necromancy to only allow you to see NECRO spells and Magery = Magery spell or they want them to work interchangably.... I did like RichDCs comment

    Just add in the above part about at least getting the message

    *Begins casting a spell* if you fail to ID the EXACT spell and that's how I think I would prefer it... Mind you all human characters would always see 20% of any templates EXACT spell words etc...
     
  30. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    If you took off the delay and the words to spells you would never see it coming. So in turn, you would die. 3 Flamestrikes was just an example.

    Also, unless you are a tank mage you are not going to add magery just to see spells cast.
     
  31. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    I like this idea.
     
  32. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    The delay i am talking about is not a casting delay, it is the hit delay that some spells have. You can cast explode and target the player but then it takes a second or two before it actually damages you.

    A flamestrike basically already hits you immediately.
     
  33. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    I assumed you meant fc/fcr delay.
     
  34. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Heh, as much as I would love no casting delay at all, it would be quite unfair.

    Although I sure do get frustrated when a dexer can Armor Ignore or Concussion me back to back to back to back, with about 1 second delay between hits.
     
  35. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Not possible and they don't always land the hit.
     
  36. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    On my necromage with all 70+ resists and 35 DCI with a -20 mage weapon it seems to be that way.

    Usually I get disarmed first then either bleed or AI'd followed by a spam of AI or Concs. Occasionally they miss once, but most of the time after the disarm, they hit on every swing, especially if the weapon has hld on it.

    The spamming of specials change from temp to temp, but with the huge selection of really fast weapons for dexers they all seem to hit around once a second these days while also doing huge damage.

    You have to agree that most dexers can redline someone in 3 hits.
    Yet a mage cant redline anyone in 3 spells.

    So I think having our spell words encrypted to non-mages would be a good start to assisting mages for a change.
     
  37. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    I had parry on mine but wasn't at 80 dex. It helped.
     
  38. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    but then it totally messes up the mage template for PvP.

    How can it be fair that mages should have to have parry or a weapon skill to defend against a dexer, when the dexer doesnt even have to have magic resist to defend against a mage?
     
  39. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Usually exp fs ps gets them pretty close
     
  40. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Why is that unfair? You dont think a 120 dexer with max hci should be able to hit someone without parry?
     
  41. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Against my suit explode does 21 damage and flamestrike did a max of 27 damage. that adds up to 48 and no where near redlined. if i add a 3rd spell in, another flamestrike that adds up to 75 total damage and still no where near redlined.
     
  42. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    see my last post.

    the dexer doesnt need magic resist to compete with pots, petals, apples and trapped boxes available to them. Our 3 hits to his 3 hits is no where near the same damage.

    we have to have necro and cast corpse skin first, then maybe strangle and evilomen explode flamestrike painspike.

    That is 6 spells to cast to do the same amount of damage a dexer can dole out in 3 consecutive hits. let alone that he can heal and still hit while on the run.
     
  43. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    to get back on topic; no one knows what specials a dexer is going to use, and with the ability to insta switch weapons, its hard to keep track of what you may get hit with if your trying to guess what the specials may be. especially with ubw weapons

    So why should the dexer know what the mage is going to cast, so long as he knows the mage is casting some sort of spell?
     
  44. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Mages have all consumables available to them too. It's a moot point.
    Again mages are 100% effective when hitting, dexers aren't. That is the balance.
     
  45. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Some of the consumables have a greater effect for the dexer template than a mage template.

    Trapped boxes dont work against nervstrike.

    Petals don't work worth a darn against DP or take too long to cure against reg poison. but pots help partially balance this.



    One of the issues is that the dexer can run and heal while the mage can not.

    A dexer can also chase a mage and hit him while running next to him, a mage has to stop to cast.
     
  46. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Also a dexers suit is usually geared towards max in everything that aids them to do the most damage per second.

    Where a mages suit is geared towards mana and dci.

    This is not balance>

    Balance would be when both templates would be able to gear up to do the most damage per second.
     
  47. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Damage is factored into hit chance. It is still balanced for the most part.

    And anymore mages can still use mage weapons with sc etc and pots so it really is a moot point because you can make a suit however you want.
     
  48. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    With max hci and hld and ssi you rarely miss, and when you do, you hit so fast it doesn't matter.

    True but once again we have to take a penalty of at least 20 points in the mages skill to use one.

    What item do dexers need to use to compete in pvp that lowers one of their skills by 20 points?
     
  49. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Add more DCI and don't stand there and take the hit? Don't really know what to tell you there but some mages I can hardly hit because they do have parry.


    They usually make that up with the crystalline ring.
     
  50. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I guess we can go on all day about this.

    I personally like the idea of encrypted spellwords to players who dont have magery of necro.

    I sometimes think it would be cool if dexers never missed and mages could never get disrupted. I think this would make battle more interesting and make it to where the items you have and use were even more important.