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READ: A new concept of guild warfare on Catskills

Discussion in 'The United Pirates' started by hawkeye_pike, Sep 21, 2010.

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  1. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Ahoy crew!

    It has been brought to our attention that a dedicated group of role players is planning a new concept of RP guild warfare on Catskills. I want to introduce this concept to you, tell you what I think about it, and ask YOU for your opinion.

    To fully understand the concept, you first have to understand what an Alliance is:

    Alliances are formal relationships between guilds, and are managed by the guild designated as the Alliance Leader. Guilds can not have any wars declared when joining an alliance and a guild may only belong to one alliance at a time. Alliances share all wars declared by their Alliance Leader, and only the Alliance leader can declare war. Other guilds wishing to declare war on any guild in an Alliance must declare war on the Alliance Leader directly. If the Alliance Leader accepts the declaration of war, this will result in a war with the entire Alliance. Allies will highlight the same color as members of your own guild (a light green color).
    Two Alliance Leaders can declare war on each other, so all guilds under one Alliance will automatically be at war (highlight orange) with all guilds under the other Alliance.
    All guilds in one Alliance can communicate with one another through the Alliance Chat (which works just like guild chat).

    Concept:

    The basic idea is that all RP guilds on Catskills interested in guild interaction, events and warfare (according to the RoE) will join a system based on two Alliances: A "good" and an "evil" one.
    Not only does this allow to choose an allegiance, it also opens up a lot of possibilities of guild interaction and real guild conflicts/wars with a RP background. It would "unite" the RP guilds better and would make it easier for smaller guilds to join into the system, instead of having to handle all the highlighting business by themselves.
    (Aneirin should correct me if I misinterpreted something or left something out.)

    My Opinion:

    I think this idea has a lot of potential. I have suggested the exact same thing to the Catskills community 3 years ago, because I felt that the RP guilds mostly are kindof isolated. Building a shard-wide Alliance system would improve guild communication and interaction a lot. As you can see who in the Alliance is online and can easily chat with them, it makes it easier for guilds to plan something. It also makes it easier for new guilds to join into the RP fun on Catskills without the long-winded hassle of trying to contact and declare war on all the participating guilds by themselves. It also is a good roof under which the RP guilds on Catskills can unite.

    I know that most guild masters treasure their long list of guild war declarations, but 95% of the guilds in those lists are inactive or even don't exist anymore. And 99% of these guild wars are never used. If you look at the UP guild relations, you will see that we are at war with 19 guilds. But which of these guild wars do we actually utilize? Maybe 1 or 2 (PGoH and RBG). The other ones are obsolete. I wouldn't mind clearing this list and starting new, under a better system.

    I can understand that some guild masters may have a problem with "handing over control" to an Alliance Leader. The Alliance Leader is in charge of adding/removing guilds to the Alliance and has the responsibility of the relation to the other Alliance, including the guilds THEY add (and thus automatically will be at war, too). Instead of every guild master deciding for himself who will be part of the war system, this decision will be made by two Alliance Leaders.

    I personally have no problem with that, under two conditions:

    1. The two Alliance Leaders must be people who are trustworthy and reliable, and who are AVAILABLE in a long term. Should this change, the Alliance Leadership must be passed on to a guild meeting these requirements.

    2. The Alliance Leaders must be very strict about the Rules of Engagement, and enforce them. If drama happens (and it will happen), misunderstandings have to be cleared out immediately and constructively. If rules are deliberately broken (and it will happen), it must be made sure that the involved guild gets rid of that rule-breaking member. If the guild refuses to cooperate, it has to be removed from the Alliance.

    I'd have no problem with canceling all our guild wars and join the Alliance as long as the PGoH is part of it (as the only guild we currently interact with).

    What Say You?
     
  2. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    I must point out that the words used were "order" and "chaos" and not "good" and "evil".

    From a role played perspective, there's a huge difference (but practically, it will likely still be good vs. evil).

    Apart from that, the description, as I understand it, is accurate.

    Anyhow, I agree with Pike's conditions 100% and have no further conditions to add. It's long past time to be out with the old and in with the new.
     
  3. Schuyler Bain

    Schuyler Bain Lore Master
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    Ahoy mateys!

    Well I for one am in favor of any system that brings RP guilds together. I am glad to see that Good vs Evil was brought up by Farsight. My first reaction was that we should add a 3rd "neutral" group. This group should be at war with both good and evil. I would have placed the UP in that neutral group in that situation. The order vs chaos description makes all of that go away (funny how that works) and I would say that we belong in the chaos camp.

    I cast my vote for in favor of the new system and our participation in said system.
     
  4. Scarst

    Scarst Lore Master
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    Despite the negative looks I'm going to get I'm going to say no.

    Before I even go into why I'm going to say PGoH wants nothing to do with Pitr for HL, this being directly from Thom. Not to mention they already have an alliance holding 3 stones for who knows how long.

    My reasons are quite simple if you've followed my stance of "Good" and "Evil", there is no such thing.

    And when it change to "Order" and "Chaos" it's even more defined considering every character leans a certain way and is not always in a guild that shows it.

    PGoH if it were to join would enter "Order" because there all about playing the "good" guys yet Rotep is sorely out of place there as he's so chaotic people compare him to James.

    Oh and you could have a field day with [Rose] trying to figure out where the fae belong.

    The next is Alliances between guilds shift, certain people aren't going to be best friends forever and to expect that to happen is silly.

    Next, the potion factor, Explosion potions don't work on greens and there are other things you don't get with being green to almost everyone that you get with orange.

    And vice versa with green you end up in chats with people you don't necessarily like and possibly can't stand to the point of you completely avoid them.

    I have no problem with cleaning the lists, the only thing it hurts is the "Most Warred" status on the old My UO thing and it's already broken.

    But alliances are just a way to lump people together in a way that will cause confusion.
     
  5. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Thanks for your honest opinion Scarst. And no, of course you won't get any negative looks.

    I will try and answer some of your points, but you still are entitled to your own opinion.

    First, let me say that the issues between certain persons of whatever guild matter not to me. They do not concern us and they should not in any way influence our decisions.

    I agree that "Order" and "Chaos" is more correct than "Good" and "Evil". I think the concept does not force you into a certain direction. It just reflects a certain tendency of a guild, and we definitely would be more of a chaos guild, while those landlubbing do-gooders certainly would be more order guilds. But still single characters can do whatever they want, just like it is today, and the actions of a guild member will always reflect on the whole guild.

    Nobody expects people to be best friends forever, and to my understanding the Alliance does not reflect or require personal friendships at all. Also, being in an Alliance does not mean that you have to be friends with all Alliance members. We'll still be the UP guild as an independent instance, and if we have a reason we may also plunder a ship of an Alliance member. As always, this may have consequences.

    I agree that there are some issues with area effect attacks not working against "green" people (i.e. friendly guilds). I consider that a minor issue, especially since not many guild wars are going on anyway, and if they are, they will be mostly against the enemy Alliance. If not, well, don't use area effect attacks.

    Anyway, I understand your points but I think it would not really hurt to give it a try. We still could go our own ways again if it doesn't work out. We'd lose nothing except a couple of worthless guild highlightings.
     
  6. gonzo2

    gonzo2 Guest

    Me being the newest old member let me weigh in as sort of an insider looking out.. or the other way around. I used to love the interraction we had with various guilds back in the day. But I always believed that we were pirates... good/bad, order/chaos... we were always about the plunder and truthfully looking out for A number one.. ourselves. Were thieves, were cutthroats, were self centered, alcoholics that fart in the presence of fair maidens in distress... now as long as that is the case.. we still are "pirates".. hell i'm all for it. This was always the greatest guild of all time because we always hung our manners up at the door.
     
  7. Schuyler Bain

    Schuyler Bain Lore Master
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    Aye! *raises bottle to gonzo2* well said mate!

    We should make the first part of that our charter or creed or something...
     
  8. Lumberlord

    Lumberlord Guest

    I would be in favor of giving it a try. One of my other chars is in an Alliance and it does foster greater communication and participation.
    the Alliance has monthly meetings and all vote on applications for membership. If it doesnt work out we could always leave the Alliance
     
  9. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    That's because the idea is constantly changing according to the audience it's being presented to.

    And with everyone's feedback, it changes a little bit more.

    So what Thom heard last week is different than what Pike heard (and presented), which is also different than what was presented on the author of the plan's guild boards.

    A work in progress...
     
  10. Bianca_CoD

    Bianca_CoD Sage
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    Hi, you guys do not know me just yet, but I am sure you will. My name is Susan, I am almost 62 and usually live between West Palm Beach, FL and New York City, NY with my husband and children. I am one of the senior officers in COD, also for TLP (the larger version of this guild in both DAOC and WOW). I have yet to post because I thought this was a guild forum.

    I just want to say, as the original author of this idea along with another senior officer, Adam, that YES (like Farsight points out) this idea is ever evolving; we are three weeks into its development.

    Originally we wanted folks to join two alliances, pick a side, they could switch sides pretty easily if their guild lore called for it (some guilds are neutral, so that would fit). PGOH and VOA both had strong feedback against this idea in its original form, so we adjusted. They, unlike some of the guilds that have expressed huge interest, cannot clear their war lists for either historical reasons or because they have GMs that are not currently active. So we adjusted, and how we did that is that we proposed managing this theme from a website; an out of game source. This allows guilds that are members to interact with us without having to subscribe to the in game system of alliances.

    Scarst, you are correct. Our idea so far has the guilds warring for specific time frames or # of casualities, which outside of permanent highlights would not occur. That is to push to the idea of "highlighting" out of people's minds and supporting the idea of "guild wars" around storied plotlines much more. Some folks value their warlists/highlights, but they can still effectively participate through the website just the same way.

    You are also correct in saying that refusing war declarations is not the same as refusing to RP. Its all on a basis of trust, and some folks are not as trusting as others.

    With that said, yes there will be a meeting in regards to this theme and invites will be extended to those we have asked to be founding guilds. Pandora has been our diplomat for this as she knows you all better than those of us that have recently reactivated or are going to be reactivating. So she is the one to contact (or PM me here, or visit our guild site) with any suggestions, concerns, or questions.

    Let me also stress this is not an EM-Managed public theme, this theme is private and after the intial setup and the addition of the founder guilds, other guilds would have the ability to apply to join and be voted on. This is no different than many other shards have for a variety of things like alliances or RP circles.

    Thank you for reading my post. I look forward to some good role playing with you guys!!!
     
  11. Thom

    Thom Lore Keeper
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    I've just got something to say before I back back out of this thread as I am not a part of UP, and this thread was started by Pike asking his guild their opinions of this theme. I personally beleive that this theme will be good for the community, and it is ever changing until it is implemented. I've been in constant contact with Pandora about the theme, and have shared my opinions with her and anyone else that asks for it. I'd just like to caution people about taking what someone said someone else said as the gospel truth.
     
  12. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I personally would prefer permanent highlights. The reason is simple: Conflicts and even personal disputes often happen spontaneously, and I don't want to have to file for a temporary highlighting each time I want to "mug a landlubber". That would be just stupid. Permanent highlightings allow spontaneous RP activities that would otherwise be impossible.

    I still do not understand the value of warlists, historical or not. Warlists are completely useless if all guilds in the list are inactive.
     
  13. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I took the liberty of removing some of the posts (including my own), as the discussion was drifting away from the original topic. No offense, I just like to keep things clearly arranged.
     
  14. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I don't know if I understand your questions correctly; I'm not sure what you mean by the "formal guild/alliance structure", for example. But I think some things still have to be figured out, and as far as I know nothing is carved in stone yet.

    Not from the UP side. Personal issues won't affect our judgement as long as Aneirin or myself are Captain.
     
  15. Scarst

    Scarst Lore Master
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    The Idea is to have a meeting with the guilds that were involved in development of the idea those being CoD, PGoH, UP, and Aegis to get everyone on the same page and talk about any issues that may come up.

    Pandora has asked certain people to get involved and give there opinions and these guilds would be considered founding guilds and anyone else trying to get in would be put to a vote of all member from what I've gathered.

    Basically, It'll be a private meeting or invited guilds without ton of random people coming by.
     
  16. Thom

    Thom Lore Keeper
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    This theme, order vs chaos, is independent of the RBG theme. There are about 6 guilds that i'm aware of involved in the discussion about the particulars of the theme at the moment. Guilds could be in the theme and part of one of the two "alliances" without using formal guild alliance mechanics and would not be excluded from activities involved with the theme. The whole idea is to give the community a good starting point for actual roleplayed conflict. It would be a way to have bigger conflicts then we currently have. Most of the rpvp you see these days is random occasional encounters between two people and not larger battles involving multiple people/guilds with an actual story behind it. All of the specifics haven't been decided yet, so the way it works keeps changing but that is the goal.
     
  17. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Not sure what a website has to do with the technical guild highlighting, but we will see about that. I'm looking forward to hearing these suggestions, and to the prospects of big guild wars and conflicts.
     
  18. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Since no more constructive contribution seems to be added to this thread, it now has been closed. We'll see what the meeting brings and move forward from that point.
     
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