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REAL skill should offer a much better bonus than "beefed up" skill level.....

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Training a skill, when not scripting, requires time, dedication and effort.

    Certainly, IMHO, it takes more effort than just wearing some skill "beefing up" item.....

    This said, I have instead a feeling that, as it is, the game penalizes more those who actually have taken the time, dedication and effort to train a skill rather than those who merely beef it up with some items.

    To better explain myself, I will make an example.

    At the max CAP possible of 720 skill points, a player who has spent time and effort into training real skills will only be able to sport 6 skills (6 x 120 = 720).

    Someone who instead will use jewellery and items to "bump them up", will be able to surpass this limit and, even though less effort was put in, the character will be more succesfull.

    Infact, just taking into account jewellery, a ring or bracelet can, at least potentially, come with 5 skills all maxed out at 15 points (total 75 points each).
    That is, between the 2, some 150 more skill points.
    Even assuming 5 skills all maxed out is way too rare, the chance of 3 skills maxed out for 45 more points each, 90 for the pair, is not far fetched.

    Add to this the possibility to also have items adding more skill points, and one can conclude that some players, even when not having spent time and effort to train skills all the way up, not only can reap the benefits by using skill points bonus items, but can even surpass the 6 real skills maxed out limit and can get to 7 skills all maxed out at 120 points.

    Of course, having a template with 7 skills all maxed out, even though with jewellery and wearables, can give a upper hand when fighting a 6 skills maxed out template.

    At least, as things are now.

    I think the Developers should change all this and give to REAL skills a much better and higher bonus than to skills "beefed up" using items.

    At least, that is what I think would be fair towards those who took the time, dedication and effort to train their real skills all the way to the max.
     
  2. Gladius

    Gladius Guest

    I think the Developers should change all this and give to REAL skills a much better and higher bonus than to skills "beefed up" using items.


    Aye :thumbsup:
     
  3. Deb

    Deb Guest

    :thumbsup: A definite yes to this. I wish skill enhanced items were
    taken out of the game.
     
  4. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, maybe taking them out of the game, entirely, is a bit too much too early but at the very least, those real skills who have taken time, effort and dedication should offer a much better bonus than those skills "beefed up" using the easy way..........with items............
     
  5. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    I've said before that I feel added skill from items shouldn't count for any minimum skill requirement checks, so that items will let you be better at things you can already do, but not let you do new things.
     
  6. popps

    popps Always Present
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    That could be a start but the real point is, "what do Developers think about this" ?

    Can anyone point to a Developer's post in the past saying anything about this and whether they have in the works something to make REAL skill points more meaningfull versus "beefed up" skill points ?
     
  7. Lady_Calina

    Lady_Calina Lore Keeper
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    My husband and I go to the extreme with some of our characters suits, and it has taken years of searching for the right combination of items and armor to do so. I'll use my tamer as an example. She's has 823 skill points with her items, and she's at her natural 720 cap without the items. I did this to fit Magery and other skills into her template. I even bought an IBD to bless the ring that makes her suit possible. My husband spent months in Sanctuary searching for it.

    Her skills with items: 120 Lore, 120 Taming, 120 Discord, 120 Magery, 120 Music, 120 Vet, 93 Eval.

    Without items: 93 Lore, 91 Taming, 120 Discord, 109 Magery, 120 Music, 120 Vet, 67 Eval.

    Her skill items: +10 Taming, +10 Lore MOT. +5 Taming, +5 Lore Tali. +11 Magery, +11 Eval Scrappers... and my ring: +15 Eval, +14 Taming, +12 Lore, Dex 6, Phys 12%.

    I managed after years of work to get her suit to 100% LRC, 70,57,70,63,75. Max LMC and high MR.

    It wasn't a matter of not wanting to 'put in the effort', far from that. I was doing math, swapping armor and going generally insane for a long time to reach my goal. If suddenly I was penalized and unable to be a full tamer despite my hard work, I don't think I'd touch either of my tamers (one of which isn't skill buffed, just a pure tamer) ever again. It'd be like a spit in the face of years of work and over 100,000,000 gold.

    I understand maybe penalizing those who -don't- reach their skill cap naturally, yet are using skill bonus items, because they have the room to work it, but -not- those who have taken the initiate to bust their behinds working out a suit that surpasses their skill cap -after- they've reached it naturally.
     
  8. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    You're so right popps. I often asked why wear jewelry? Isn't it better to achieve 6 skills and while doing so, earn the gold to buy and hunt for the required 120 PS as one can afford them. I never bothered to wear magic jewelry or calculate the effect jewelry would have on a 7th skill, always thinking it better to achieve the 6 skills first. That is until I read your post here today. So now I have to look at it this way: (*results of thinking overtime about your post while tending a few hundred growing new plants*)

    Cliche: 'Honest hard work never hurt anyone' - hahah .. oh yeh? Not always but ....
    I enjoy the game, don't expect rewards, and try stay positive! Knowing one did the work to achieve goals, comes with a tremendous feeling of accomplishment! Hard work, strong values, ability, knowledge and competence equals solid achievement and thus, often SUCCESS in real life! This game reflects the real world. Not all is fair. At least we can try do our very best!

    Programmers and Developers could keep in mind the values of adding incentives to the game that teach a sense of accomplishment to the kids and adults who need to feel good about themselves. Magic jewelry is akin to supplying a "cheat" item so players can avoid hard time-consuming work. It might be that there are good intentions to help those who do not have time to spend creating strong skills! Buying an instant advanced character, beefing it up with magic jewelry, armor and weapons, with purchased UO-millions for real $$$ making game play instant, attracts more customers and makes money for EA! It's all about running a business successfully. Money!

    The honest way of achieving anything in this game to gain skills can be frustrating. EG: I've been working on getting GM magery (1999) to 120 Magery after finally getting a Magery 120 PS. The recently earned socerer's suit with total 70%+ resists can be considered a reasonable exchange for having to drop 100% resist skill in the past - before the soul stones came into being. (Talk about losing hard earned skills .. in those days everyone lost so much of their hard work all the time)
     
  9. gunneroforgin

    gunneroforgin Slightly Crazed
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    What I want to know is how are the dev's supposed to make the mathmatical difference between real skill and beefed up skill. I would like to see that bit of programming. what would it be, If charjewlery=20 then charjewlery = charjewlery -10. How ever it is applied skill points are skill points. I use jewlery to have enough skill to control my dragon. I certainly don't want that ability to be taken taken away because someone thinks skill point shouldn't be skill points. I think jewlery should not have been introduced to the game at all. It is here to stay. I say we live with it. To remove it now would be detremental to our beloved game.
     
  10. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    The idea is interesting, but you're missing a big trade off. Atleast with my chars. Yes they are at the cap, that's the same hard work YOU put in. But then I had to put in MORE hard work and MORE money to get the items that allow my char to do at the most, ONE thing extra your char can't do. There's something else you're missing, but using those items makes your character DEPENDENT to those items, married. If you want to change your suit around for better mods, like adding DI if you're an 8 skill dexor like the template I want to make would be much harder. Sure SA will help if all the stuff mentioned on UHall comes with imbuling, but you'll still have to spend the money and resources to do it again once that ring or bracelet brakes. The more skills you want to use, the less mods and harder your suit becomes. You're miss judging what it takes to get to the level you're complaing about, sure, some people might have 7X120, maybe 8 90+ skills, maybe more. But they still have to GET to that level and THEN get the items to be EFFECTIVE. That takes much more time and money. Even with SA you'd STILL have to take time to TRAIN imbuling and FARM for the items that will allow you to MAKE the items you need. Not to mentioned, as of last mention of the skill, THEY'RE BREAKABLE. What's the advantage of your template? You might be slightly less effective (if you're horribly less effecitve then the problem is with your template or weapons, mods on your suit, rather than Skill bonuses for which you complain about) Your advantage, is you can go "Oh, i want more LMC, let me find Some arms with X/X/X/X/X with X LMC and X MR " Big whoop. A Char who's dependent on, say, midnight bracers might be able to swamp out the legs, but they had to find ones with perfect resists, and they can't swamp out the legs without getting something that adds that +20 necro back. That's just an example, there are MUCH more complicated things. And the fact is, if you nerf this, you're nerfing what makes UO, UO. A sandbox of skills where I can make whatever char I want to make and play them.
     
  11. I honestly don't see why this is such a big deal. Skill point jewels and items are available to everyone, so it's not like there's an imbalance or someone is being left out. I don't use them personally because of exactly what Konge pointed out, you become married to those items and any changes to the suit or template requires a complete reworking of the entire character.
     
  12. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    The other option, is to have it quit spawning, and put durability on it so that existing jewelry will wear out, over time. That will let those who are using it to gain in the skill have it while they are training, but eventually, due to breakage, the crutch goes away and the real thing takes over. And over time, it will eliminate the 800-820 skill point chars as well.

    As a matter of fact, I am in favor of putting the durability on everything wearable, from sandals and shirts, to jewelry, to talismans, anything equipable and usable. This will create a bit of a market for things, and keeps things from lasting forever and ever...
     
  13. Salya Sin

    Salya Sin Guest

    You know... it's odd but I think there is actually a bonus to real skill... as far as tamers go. My guildmate and I were just discussing this. He has 10 pts more in real taming skill than I... but with mods I am higher. I believe I am higher in natural lore. We are both tame/killing Cu's like crazy and most often... he tames more and faster.

    For reference.. we are both elven, and there is no reason for this difference. We have the same taming style... etc.

    So I believe there is a difference. Maybe not a huge one... but... well... there it is. :thumbsup:
     
  14. popps

    popps Always Present
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    That is why I did not say take those items out of the game, entirely.

    I merely said, make 120 REAL skill be worth MORE than 90 skill + 30 points in items.....

    How ?

    Giving some special moves, special commands, whatever, that ONLY works when one has the required REAL skill for that special move or command........

    That is, I am sayin ADD some cool extra bonuses for real skills at 100, 105, 110, 115 and 120 real skill as compared to what we have now.

    For example, a 120 real magery skill mage could have some 5 cool extra spells to use which a Mage who is 90 real skill + 30 with items = 120 will NOT be able to cast........

    This kind of stuff....
     
  15. Lady_Calina

    Lady_Calina Lore Keeper
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    I don't think there's anything wrong with the system as it is, to be honest. Anyone can use the skill items and anyone can have the skill suits if they put work into it.

    Adding an extra ability to those with natural max skills would be a nice idea, so long as it doesn't alter the abilities already granted or unbalance the field. I'm natural 120 Music, Disco and Vet, so it may be nice to have some sort of bonus in those areas. Whereas perhaps in Taming, I'll still be able to do everything I can do now, but those with natural 120 could do something like more easily train their pet...so long as there is always a balance when new things are added.

    Easily Train-120 Only
    New Addition-Everyone
    blah blah-120 Only

    You get the idea, hehe.
     
  16. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Actually... That's something I wanted to add in the game! Perks! Like in oblivion! Bonuses for having real skill as opposed to having item skill (exactly like oblivion! You don't get perks if you have skill +item skill). Sure it's copying, but it'll balance things nicely! instead of nerfing, buffing skill, Who wouldn't want that? Devs maybe as it would be more work in changing how skills work...
     
  17. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    Any system which allows someone to create a brand new character with 120 taming (or any other skill for that matter) by creating and advanced character and slapping on jewellry is flawed. Think about it ... you can 120 just about any skill instantaneously on a new character. I'm sure thats not what the devs intended.
     
  18. popps

    popps Always Present
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    It would actually FIX an inbalance......

    A player with 6 maxed out skills (all 120 real points) may be at a disadvantage versus a player with 7 or even 8 skills all maxed out or close to that, thanking to items.

    By giving to the player with less number of skills but all real some bonuses for sporting all 120s in real points, this would actually fix what inbalance may be out there now........

    That's the way I see it.
     
  19. Lady_Calina

    Lady_Calina Lore Keeper
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    I keep using Taming as an example because its probably the skill most used for jewelry, be it out of laziness or template complexity. So here it goes...

    I think the thing you'd have to avoid would be to make sure no 'perk' would ever effect the animal's damage, stats or controllability. It would need to stay in neutral areas such as training speed or stable slots... otherwise it discourages anyone from being innovative with skill items in their template.
     
  20. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    I think 100 105 110 and 115 should have perks, they should be neutral, tamers already have a freaking greater dragon for petes sake! But for 120 real skill i think a perk that gives maybe a 10% bonus to taming chance or reduction in "This animal hates so it mauls your face" message when taming, nothing too powerful, you can do without it, thats what perks I want in, a trade off, nothing game breaking, otherwise it changes nothing.
     
  21. Lady_Calina

    Lady_Calina Lore Keeper
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    There is no imbalance as it stands currently because everyone has the ability to search for and obtain skill items. They can make their suit close to or the same as anyone else who uses them. If they choose to not do that and simply max what skills they can and leave their template at that, then that's their choice.

    There is a difference between people who make characters with ADV Tokens and use jewels, leaving skills points open, and those people who have elaborate suits, are at their cap naturally and choose to put the effort in to make the best out of their template by seeking out the 'perfect skill item'.

    I'm not against the perks you're suggesting, but I don't think its fair to damn those that have worked just as hard creating their template as you have while obtaining real skill.

    It took me less than 2 months to create an all 'real skill' tamer. It took me almost 2 years to finally finish my skill suit tamer.
     
  22. Lady_Calina

    Lady_Calina Lore Keeper
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    I agree, I think giving natural 120s easier taming would be great :)
     
  23. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Yeah, giving that little bonus for skills 100+ is a nice way to give those with actual skill a nice little bonus. Like I said, nothing ground breaking, nothing that makes people go "Well you need 120 in this skill so you get this 1000 point min damage bonus when using any swords, then if you get 120 parry you get a constant half parry % evasion for spells also, you run at 400x normal speed and can crash through walls screaming " I'm the Juggernaut!"
     
  24. Lady_Calina

    Lady_Calina Lore Keeper
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    Really? Aww, shucks... that sounds like it'd be nifty. :danceb:
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, I dissent.

    I think there does is an inbalance and quite one since those items we are talking about can usually cost very, very much thus not being affordable by most players, certainly not newcomers or returning players.

    Training up skills, instead, everyone can do it given time and perseverance........

    So, I think it would be in the best interest of many players, particularly new or returning ones, to give them bonuses for their REAL skill points which they can deal with rather than having to always try to catch up those billionaires who can secure items which give them a upper hand over others.......
     
  26. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Still, they should be bonuses good enough to have a 6 x 120 REAL points template be able to fight and win someone who can sport 7 or even 8 skills but "beefed up" with items.......

    That is, a 720 max points template "should be" able, thanking to the real skill bonuses, to take over if necessary a 850+ skill points template..........

    And the bonus for at least 120 REAL skill should be one that a player would really feel as needed.......
    This, to work as a real incentive to players to actually want to train their skills up to 120 and not merely beef them up with items.
     
  27. guum

    guum Guest

    I agree. In making characters, I have to consider whether the skill items are worth the mod slots -- since most +skill items are jewelry, this frequently means deciding between extra skill points and DCI, HCI, SDI, FCR, or FC -- all fairly critical stats. In my experience, it usually is, in fact, NOT worth the tradeoff to get a 800-skill point character...having those other stats is more important. With some effort (and it really is effort, as Lady Calina says...the perfect jewels are very difficult to find, and usually very expensive), you can get a character up to around 750 without gimping yourself too badly in those other areas, but characters with 800ish skill points are making a tradeoff to have all those skill points, and that seems just fine to me.

    And as a note, I've done the 800 skill point thing and the 720-750 skill point thing, and generally, the 720 skill point characters are already superior to the 800 skill point characters. Don't underestimate the importance of DCI, SDI, etc.
     
  28. Lady_Calina

    Lady_Calina Lore Keeper
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    *Nods*

    Yup, it's true I run with no DCI, and my SDI isn't super. I rely on my Disco and my pet, so I believe its a trade off in comparison. If I PVP'd with my Tamer, I would go for a more pure template. I'm mostly a Peerless|Doom girl myself :)
     
  29. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Why wouldn't you? To get 850+ skill points, you need to loose something, jewelery slots, armor, losing resists, mods, maybe multiple mods. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to compete. Give us a specific example where one template is severely limited due to skill points + items vs another template with skill items. They can do more, yeah, but it doesn't come without sacrifice. Making perks that make someone with 6x120 overly powerful would cause much more balance issues than the things you're mentioning right now.
     
  30. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, while other stats may certainly be usefull, being able to use an entire extra skill can mean that extra gear to win fights better, faster and easier both in PvP and PvM.

    There are skills out there which can really provide a powerfull boost as a 7th maxed out skill or an 8th complementary skill.....
     
  31. LordWinters

    LordWinters Guest

    I can agree with both sides on this argument and think things should stay as is for those that have achieved their template using items.

    On the other hand,I think maybe a 10% boost to skill if you actually achieve 120 real skill wouldn't hurt.Maybe 5% boost for 110 real.If that's to much,maybe 5%/2.5%.

    This would apply to all skills,if taming,a boost to success chance,if magery same result,if vet then more damage healed and so on.You wouldn't hurt those that achieved through item's,only give a little boost to the natural.
     
  32. Lady_Calina

    Lady_Calina Lore Keeper
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    Right, but in order to obtain the extra skill points you have to sacrafice jewelry and such that could have HCI/DCI/LMC/LRC... whatever. If you're a 'pure' skill character, then you can use all the modded jewelry and items you want without worrying about how it effects your skills...

    Seems balanced.
     
  33. guum

    guum Guest

    I think you've got it backwards. Those stats aren't just "useful"...they're critical. The skills, on the other hand are "useful". I've done it both ways -- the characters that have the necessary stats like DCI, FC/FCR, etc., almost universally do better than the ones who have traded off those stats for extra skill points. There are exceptions, sorta, but even with those exceptions, there's a point of diminishing returns in terms of skill tradeoff. If you don't believe me, look at jewelry prices...jewelry with high-intensity combos of HCI/DCI/EP/DI, for example, go for tens of millions. Jewelry that's just skills (even 50+ skill points on a single jewel) can routinely be found for around 50k on my shard. I realize that it's a popular belief that you can trade off pretty much anything for skill points and you will have some uber character purely by virtue of having all those skill points, but the belief is just not supported by actual play.
     
  34. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    Just wait until SA is released. It will be possible to have a 7x120 template with the correct imbued ring/bracelet combo.
     
  35. Eman Resu

    Eman Resu Guest

    This.
     
  36. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Yes, but the items are also going to be temporary as last mention of them, and if you want to make them cheap, you'd have to do less than 90% intensity for all mods, plus theirs the fact we don't know how hard the skill is going to be to train up yet either. Then you have to find the items that give the the right imbuling resources whatever they'll be called to give you the ability to even make them.

    I agree with You Guum... Hense my earlier post about the matter... I don't know in what case, other than a tamer, where 850 skill would be better than any of the amazing mods we NEED to be effective.
     
  37. popps

    popps Always Present
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    A reason more, IMHO, to making changes so that REAL skill may have bonuses as compared to skill levels reached with items..........
     
  38. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    How about the following tweak:

    You can only use as much skill bonus from items, as 1/5 your real skill.

    That way, the only way you could get 120 with items, would be to have at least 100 in real skill?
     
  39. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Again... No one gives a good reason as to why having a little more skill makes it game breaking? Someone please give me a template thats not a tamer that has this massive power over a 6x120?
     
  40. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Worst. Idea. Ever.
     
  41. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Konge: I agree - though my favorite template that used lots of jewelry was already crippled by the "70/90 real tactics" change to special moves.

    I USED to have over 800 skill points on my MELEE Treasure Hunter. (swords, tactics, anatomy, healing, parry, cartography, lockpicking & Chivalry). I had to lose 21 points of the template, just to get tactics up to 90 real tactics.

    A few classes (Tamer variants, Necro-samurai, and Thief) have means to get truly perverse in their equipment skill amounts.

    However, OTHER templates that, while NOT overpowered, are FUN and outside the box in terms of normal template building, are ONLY possible with skill-boosting equipment.
     
  42. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Well tamers are always going to be an amazingly powerful template, with or without skill bonuses which is why i asked not to mention them, Necro-samurai's, i have one that has 720 skill points and works nice, i know many people that do, it's not hard to fit in sampire or necro-samurai if you make compromises. I'll tell you what though, my chiv samurai has advantages over some of my friends sampires, why? Cuz he can heal. I don't need to wack something to gain hp. But none of these are game breaking, they're not these amazingly powerful things that run around being completely invincible. There's nothing wrong with the way things are, however adding small bonuses for having real skill would be a nice touch.
     
  43. EDA_GL

    EDA_GL Journeyman
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    It seems to me that having REAL barding skills compared to GM+20skill on jewelry does give you a better chance. I have a bard that has 857 skill points total (137 extra from items). When it comes to discording creatures, I seems to fail on a higher percentage rate compared to a guildmember that has REAL 120 disco/music. Example: I fail discording Rikky 5 times compared to a guildies 3 fails.

    I feel that the Dev's were curious to see what could happen with bonus skill points....otherwise they wouldn't keep releasing new items that have skill points on them. :dunce:

    It was addressed at a town hall that they will give some type of bonus to REAL skill characters. Fuzzy remarks along the lines of extra stable slots for taming, a 5ish% chance of barding. About all that I can remember. Scavenger hunt for the notepad with all the suggestions on it!!!!
     
  44. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    Sorry but I don't like this idea.This idea only works for me if we get atleast a 1000 skill cap per character .
     
  45. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    1000... really? Do all your chars need 1000? a 1000 skill cap would mean every template out there could use a GD, and vet it... How's that for balance issues? Sampires with their own doom buddys? every ninja archer having a little friend? Necro mages with dread mares?
     
  46. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I got an idea for +skill jewels. Just add a cap to how much of 1 skill you can buff up. Limit it to +10 per skill with non-artifacts items and +20 with artifact items.
     
  47. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Again, there's no real reason to even do this, you're just penalizing tight fitting templates to making their stuff even HARDER to use.
     
  48. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I do not see nothing wrong when it prizes those who actually train their skill all the way up.......

    Personally, I see skill points items as a way to break the skill CAP and put on an extra gear which should not be....

    The skill CAP was set to 720 for a reason and breaking it thanking to items seems and smells to me a work around.

    No thanks.

    Want to use skill points beyond the skill CAP ? Fine, but they should never ever allow a player to gain truly too much an advantage over those who actually stay WITHIN the 720 skill CAP (6 x 120 real skill points......). And this, whether for PvP or PvM.

    That is why real skill should grant sound and significative bonuses over "beefed up" skills.
     
  49. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    This is atleas tthe 3rd time I've said this, and others have said it. What amazing bonuses do you get for having slightly more skills than you? And again, just because they have a 15 bonus to a skill, maybe more, doesn't mean they didn't train them up! THEY STILL HAVE TO TRAIN THEM UP TO A POINT, IT'S NOT MAGICALLY THERE WHEN THEY MAKE THE CHAR. Plus they're married to the item. And to loose certain mods that you NEED to be more EFFECTIVE. you get 850 skill points, yeah, you get a nice little skill, a couple 120's sure. You loose HCI, DCI, DI, LMC, MR. and other examples. What does that mean? A 6x120 is more effective in general than you are! Why? cuz they generally do more damage, have more mana, all that stuff. Again, I ask YOU to provide me with a NON-TAMER game breaking template that does so much better than your 6x120. Because if there is, I can honestly say your template has it's OWN problems. Some templates are, oh I don't know, tighter, that doesn't mean all their skills are in the 50-70 range with +skills out the ying yang. Your arguement for not training has NO BASIS. You STILL have to train. You're just training MORE skills and then spending the time to GET the items just to make it WORK. All you do is train and guess what? you want a different suit to wear? YOU CAN JUST DO IT. a person who NEEDS these jewels to maintain this skill level, guess what? THEY CAN'T. Not without getting new jewels, shelling out much more money than you would have to. I'm tired of having to say the same thing just to get it ignored and have you come back with the same argument that you have YET to actually give an example of this awesome template with skill items that can beat your 6x120.

    Edit: Sorry for the frustrated tone of writing this, just tired of hearing the same thing over again, too lazy to re-write, and yes, a bonus to having the real skill is FINE but it can't be anything amazing, something that's nice to have, but not "OMG I NEED THIS SKILL SO I CAN GET THIS PERK!!!!"
     
  50. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Scratch that, +15 with non-artifact items as a cap. Forgot that the cap per non-artifact jewel is +15.

    I don't see how this would be a problem nor how it could be seen as penalizing. +15 per skill with non-artifact jewels is still quite a big bonus. And if you have an artifact with +20, even better! Should be enough to keep your working well.