1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Rebalancing weapons

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Zan186, Feb 26, 2008.

  1. Zan186

    Zan186 Guest

    I still don't understand why the dev team insists on making archery so overpowered in relation to the mellee skills. Why is it over powered? Let's see we have bows that do massive damage and with 40 SSI can fire close to the swing speed cap. Not to mention the biggest asset of firing at RANGE!

    Now the dev's made it worse by giving higher mod bonuses to bows. You can get 25hci and 25 DCI on a bow. The only concession the dev team made was that leaching was reduced by half. Yippee. Does it make a difference when you have a bow doing 40 damage per hit, firing every 1.25 seconds with a 60% chance or better to hit (after the HLD). Oh and running away isn't an option either because moving shot on a properly configured archer will cost a mere 5 mana!

    Several ways to fix this.
    1) Give anyone carrying a shield a 25% chance to parry an arrow or bolt. This is an easy fix, and will go a very long way to bringing some parity to the game.
    2) Increase the mana consumption on moving shot to 15 mana minumum
    3) Cap the Swing Speed on bows to 2 seconds instead of 1.25!
     
  2. Supremely Accu , Silver Katana of Vanquishing..... [​IMG]
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I still don't understand why the dev team insists on making archery so overpowered in relation to the mellee skills. Why is it over powered? Let's see we have bows that do massive damage and with 40 SSI can fire close to the swing speed cap. Not to mention the biggest asset of firing at RANGE!

    Now the dev's made it worse by giving higher mod bonuses to bows. You can get 25hci and 25 DCI on a bow. The only concession the dev team made was that leaching was reduced by half. Yippee. Does it make a difference when you have a bow doing 40 damage per hit, firing every 1.25 seconds with a 60% chance or better to hit (after the HLD). Oh and running away isn't an option either because moving shot on a properly configured archer will cost a mere 5 mana!

    Several ways to fix this.
    1) Give anyone carrying a shield a 25% chance to parry an arrow or bolt. This is an easy fix, and will go a very long way to bringing some parity to the game.
    2) Increase the mana consumption on moving shot to 15 mana minumum
    3) Cap the Swing Speed on bows to 2 seconds instead of 1.25!

    [/ QUOTE ]


    My solution. Make Fighting From a horse skill based.
    Want balance. Make some real choices. You want to ride and fight then you need to have the skill.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Supremely Accu , Silver Katana of Vanquishing..... [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    y'all dont know nothin 'bout that!
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hmm, I like the idea about needing skill points to fight while riding. That's pretty cool. So I guess the way it would work would be to have maybe a -25% hci when fighting on a mount. The new mounted fighting skill would reduce that hci penalty as you get higher in the skill, totally negating it when you reach gm.

    So you would have to decide whether its worth it to you to have faster movement or more skills available. I think it's a good trade off. It has my vote.
     
  6. <blockquote><hr>

    I still don't understand why the dev team insists on making archery so overpowered in relation to the mellee skills. Why is it over powered? Let's see we have bows that do massive damage and with 40 SSI can fire close to the swing speed cap. Not to mention the biggest asset of firing at RANGE!

    Now the dev's made it worse by giving higher mod bonuses to bows. You can get 25hci and 25 DCI on a bow. The only concession the dev team made was that leaching was reduced by half. Yippee. Does it make a difference when you have a bow doing 40 damage per hit, firing every 1.25 seconds with a 60% chance or better to hit (after the HLD). Oh and running away isn't an option either because moving shot on a properly configured archer will cost a mere 5 mana!

    Several ways to fix this.
    1) Give anyone carrying a shield a 25% chance to parry an arrow or bolt. This is an easy fix, and will go a very long way to bringing some parity to the game.
    2) Increase the mana consumption on moving shot to 15 mana minumum
    3) Cap the Swing Speed on bows to 2 seconds instead of 1.25!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    .... except that archery is not overpowered.

    A maxed out, non-cheating archer can't kill a maxed out parry dexer unless the parry dexer takes his armor off and shoves his head up his ass. heh.

    Someone with max DCI and weapon skill/mage wep will already have a 50% chance of dodging arrows from a maxed-out archer, and that's without Parry.

    The changes you describe would make maxed-out archers unable to compete with even half-finished chars of other classes.

    See what I mean about archers being generally hated and expected to be singing oOoOoOOo all the time... heh.
     
  7. <blockquote><hr>

    Hmm, I like the idea about needing skill points to fight while riding. That's pretty cool. So I guess the way it would work would be to have maybe a -25% hci when fighting on a mount. The new mounted fighting skill would reduce that hci penalty as you get higher in the skill, totally negating it when you reach gm.

    So you would have to decide whether its worth it to you to have faster movement or more skills available. I think it's a good trade off. It has my vote.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It would be interesting to implement a 'riding' skill, but I think a good way to do it would be to add 50 points to the skill cap, and then require 50 in 'riding' skill to be able to get on any sort of mount, including ethy and er, being in a ninja animal form that moves at mounted speed (heh).

    What benefits one would get from having GM riding would be some part of future development, and until that time, perhaps 'riding' would be limited to 50. One would have to first see how things worked out with the chars who choose to go unmounted with those extra 50 skill points added to their template.

    This is more of an empowering implementation rather than a penalizing one.
     
  8. <blockquote><hr>

    except that archery is not overpowered.<blockquote><hr>



    your kidding right?? Archery is way over powered you notice he didnt mention one of the most rediculous advantages archers have..... BALANCED BOWS!

    all i know is whoevers idea that was the guy/girl should be put in the stocks and have rotten cabage thrown at them. [​IMG]

    Parry dexxers are a little on the overpowerd side too i wont lie but id much rather fight a pimped out parry dexxer over a pimped out archer anyday.
     
  9. Zan186

    Zan186 Guest

    umm yeah Archery is way overpowered. The only weakness an archer has is against a Warrior with high parry. At which point the archer just has to play keep away as the mellee skills have to get close to hit them.

    As for the maxed out DCI, well that would be great if most people with Archery didnt have HLD!

    Archery is by far the greatest warrior skill. How can you even disagree! You have the capability to reach the Swing speed cap + have the highest damage weapons + RANGE!
    I am not saying we need to nerf the skill into uselessness. I just think that in PVP their is a major imbalance. Easiest solution is to give people with sheilds a 25% chance to parry (even with Bushido).
     
  10. Hoody

    Hoody Guest

    Imo archery is not over powered - thats just my opinion - i play a high-end archer with a balanced xbow - parry dexxers are equally if not more powerful - added with 4/6 dexxers have a distinct advantage over archers. Implementing a skill to ride and use bows would simply intice ALOT more dismount archers - something that is moaned about alot.

    So, we can run around with pots to heal.. you have alot more options - 4/6, parry, bush...
     
  11. Zan186

    Zan186 Guest

    If you buy into the rock/papper/sissors theory then Archery is not unbalanced.

    Yes a parry 4/6 chiv mellee warrior can neutralize an archer.
    But a Mage will get torn up vs an Archer.
    4/6 Chiv Mellee warrior does very well against a mage, it is pretty balanced.

    So in the mage vs Archer there is a severe imbalance.

    I am along the lines of thought that every type of fighting style should have a good chance of beating every other fighting style. That is called balance.

    HLD/HCI/DCI/HLA are responsible for unbalancing everything in UO.
    When Warriors had a 50% hit miss ratio and mages could be interupted we had balance. Now everything is complicated and unbalanced!
     
  12. <blockquote><hr>

    Supremely Accu , Silver Katana of Vanquishing..... [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ah, those were the days [​IMG]
     
  13. Hoody

    Hoody Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    If you buy into the rock/papper/sissors theory then Archery is not unbalanced.

    Yes a parry 4/6 chiv mellee warrior can neutralize an archer.
    But a Mage will get torn up vs an Archer.
    4/6 Chiv Mellee warrior does very well against a mage, it is pretty balanced.

    So in the mage vs Archer there is a severe imbalance.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    With the dci from wrestling and the fact mages can easily add parry to their template means that mages dont have a real problem with archers - you just have to learn how to fight against them.
     
  14. <blockquote><hr>

    mages can easily add parry to their template

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No they can't. At least not easily.

    You could at best go 120 mage/med/eval/resist/wep(wreste etc or w/e)/parry

    Then you need over 80 dex to make the parry work to it's fullest, plus a buffer for when your cursed, that while trying to maintain 120 int for sdi and enough str that your armor doesn't fall off when cursed (thats not so much an issue) and have a decent amount of hp. That'd be looking at 300 stat points to achieve 100/80/120, so not easy by a long way.
     
  15. DID they not change parry to make it base off dex?? I thought i understood parry not to be to effective unless you had 80 dex i know i couldnt complete my most effective dumps with 80 dex
     
  16. Hoody

    Hoody Guest

    Ofc its not necessarily easy, but if you want to be fighting high-end archers and want you're "balanced" pvp then you should be high-end as well - and yes it is possible to achieve what you have listed.
     
  17. Tell ya what give me a 40ssi sc hally with 50 lighting 15dci balanced for my tank mage. Then ill talk about the bow selection not being overpowered by 5x.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *Sighs*
    I've gone over this several times, i will once again. Take a look at the difference between three of the hardest hitting weps.

    A Swordsman with 150 STR/120.0 Anat/120.0 Tact/100.0 LJ/100% Dam Inc has a 76-85 Damage Potential with an Ornate Axe. Without GM LJ it's 71-79.
    A Archer with 150 STR/120.0 Anat/120.0 Tact/100% Dam Inc has a 79-95 Damage Potential with a Heavy X-Bow.
    A Archer with 150 STR/120.0 Anat/120.0 Tact/100% Dam Inc has a 71-87 Damage Potential with a X-Bow.

    Despite the Swordsman spending an extra 100.0 Skillpoints into LJ just to recieve more damage from Axes, the Archer still out damages him. Plus the Archer has Balanced Bows, can attack from a Range, and has Moving Shot with the Heavy X-Bow that costs almost no Mana. In an all 70's Suit, if you're hit by a Heavy X-Bow from a Archer with decent skills/Dam Inc, they will disrupt your bandages every time, making you heal jack [censored] worth of damage, while you're running trying to get away, they're pelting you with Moving Shots, further disrupting your bandies, and knocking the crap out of your Health/Stamina.
    Plus not to mention there's a Cheat/Hack/Exploit/Bug that let's people fire Moving Shots with X-Bows.
     
  19. Hoody

    Hoody Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Tell ya what give me a 40ssi sc hally with 50 lighting 15dci balanced for my tank mage. Then ill talk about the bow selection not being overpowered by 5x.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Failing that pick up a sc warfork and just spam those disarms?
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    First he'd have to get within Melee Range to do that, and still he'd have to have enough Stamina remaining from getting pelted with 30+ Damage shots to be able to swing fast enough to Disarm the Archer. As soon as you try to close in with an Archer, they play the keep away game while firing hard hitting Moving Shots from a Heavy X-Bow, so even when they're on the Defensive, they can still dish out alot of damage to you.
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Indestructable/Supremely Accurate/Silver/Vanquishing Katana was better. Closest i had was a Hardening/Accurate/Silver/Power Katana. Although i do have a Indestructable/Silver/Power Large Battle Axe, a Accurate/Silver/Vanq Kryss and a Durable/Accurate/Silver/Vanq Q-Staff.
     
  22. Hoody

    Hoody Guest

    So its time for all the disarm/mages out there to hang up their weps? No - they have a warfork because it works - archers i dont know if you have noticed have to stand still to fire (exception of moving shot) - now if youre running at them with a warfork im pretty sure even the laggiest of people can atleast get a hit on them. Now most if not all archers have little or no DCI - with the ability to disarm and then spam the archer with spells at a range kind of makes me wonder, why you think archers are overpowered?
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    And what's the wep that most Archers use nowadays? Heavy X-Bow, hard hitting and has Moving Shot. Only difference between Offensive and Defensive for a Archer with one is that when Offensive they're following you, when Defensive you're following them, in both situation's they're capable of dishing out large amounts of damage with Moving Shot.
    That's not including if they have Velocity or a Hit Effect on their' wep, if not both. Another imbalance. Ever been hit with a Conc Blow from a Archer using a X-Bow with both Lightning and Velocity on it? Believe me, 2 hit kills EASILY possible with them.

    A Moving Shot from a X-Bow and a Mage has to stop to cast a heal, which gives the Archer time to get away. Even if the mage does manage to get Disarm off on the Archer, the Mage has to stop to cast spells, which is when the Archer gets away.
     
  24. Hoody

    Hoody Guest

    Since when has heavy xbow been the most popular weapon for archers? I'm pretty sure its just the norm xbow (mortal + conc) - Heavy xbow is used for dismounting and not much else imo - and the comp bow (mobile) is less capable than the xbow - aye i understand that they hit hard but so does explo + fs
     
  25. Zan186

    Zan186 Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    So its time for all the disarm/mages out there to hang up their weps? No - they have a warfork because it works - archers i dont know if you have noticed have to stand still to fire (exception of moving shot) - now if youre running at them with a warfork im pretty sure even the laggiest of people can atleast get a hit on them. Now most if not all archers have little or no DCI - with the ability to disarm and then spam the archer with spells at a range kind of makes me wonder, why you think archers are overpowered?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    your obviously a noob no skill archer that enjoys the simplicty of the skill. Anyone that has a good bow and a decent connection can defeat even the best pvpers. What good is a warfork if you cant get within 1 tile to use it.
    Archers only have to pause for a second to fire, then they can run again.
    Archers dont need DCI because they are always staying 5 tiles away. Only against another archer do they have to worry!
     
  26. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,160
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    __________________________
    "Now the dev's made it worse by giving higher mod bonuses to bows. You can get 25hci and 25 DCI on a bow. The only concession the dev team made was that leaching was reduced by half. Yippee. Does it make a difference when you have a bow doing 40 damage per hit, firing every 1.25 seconds with a 60% chance or better to hit (after the HLD). Oh and running away isn't an option either because moving shot on a properly configured archer will cost a mere 5 mana!"
    __________________________

    1) I may be wrong here but I honestly dont believe there is a bow in existence that even at 40 ssi can fire at 1.25 &amp; do 40 pts of damage. I think the only bows that come anywhere near 1.25 are the repeater and shorty and they dont do anything near 40 pts a hit. Add all the hit spells you want and it still aint happening.

    2) You just died horribly to an archer. Get over it pal. You wear every event pvp item ever mistakenly introduced into the game and buy the absolute best gear to be found on any shard old buddy. Your old Bokuto alone was 300 million alone and you used to spam nerve-strike like a mental patient on your tanker. Fun stuff [​IMG]

    3) I could easily fall into your misinformation mode and whine about necro spells,disarm,bla bla bla. But I wont. Adapt &amp; fight or zip it, no?
    [​IMG]
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ok clearly you are skillless.... ok lets talk about Archers..... first off .. a bow is a two handed weapon.. therefore an Archer can't carry a shield..... secondly you can't use 90% of the skill abilities of Bushido.... and less than half of ninjitsu skill moves..... next lets factor in that if you want to drink a pot you have to disarm.... along with if your fighting even an ogre lord you miss like 3/4's of your shots... hello monster big as a BARN and you can't hit it????? WTF is up with that.... as a dexer you can carry a shield... and I recommend you do..... Parry and defence chance increase..... use them get them..... and quit whinning... learn to PvP. ARCHERS are NOT overpowered you are underskilled. I'm an archer I have all sorts of really really good weapons..... and I have MAX HCI and 120 skill with 110 tactics and GM anat.... if I do hit you you will know.... but half the shots I take will miss...... and I have to stop most times to do it.. a secret for you...... Moving shot hits while I'm moving but it is at a reduced damage... and yes I can keep one step out of your reach but you know... you can catch me.... I fight dexers 1v1 all the time and I get beat many a time... I suggest you do something else smart dexers can do that archers can't........ Disarm.... can't hurt you if I don't have my bow... Like I said..... gain some skill quit your whinning.
     
  28. Zan186

    Zan186 Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Ok clearly you are skillless.... ok lets talk about Archers..... first off .. a bow is a two handed weapon.. therefore an Archer can't carry a shield..... secondly you can't use 90% of the skill abilities of Bushido.... and less than half of ninjitsu skill moves..... next lets factor in that if you want to drink a pot you have to disarm.... along with if your fighting even an ogre lord you miss like 3/4's of your shots... hello monster big as a BARN and you can't hit it????? WTF is up with that.... as a dexer you can carry a shield... and I recommend you do..... Parry and defence chance increase..... use them get them..... and quit whinning... learn to PvP. ARCHERS are NOT overpowered you are underskilled. I'm an archer I have all sorts of really really good weapons..... and I have MAX HCI and 120 skill with 110 tactics and GM anat.... if I do hit you you will know.... but half the shots I take will miss...... and I have to stop most times to do it.. a secret for you...... Moving shot hits while I'm moving but it is at a reduced damage... and yes I can keep one step out of your reach but you know... you can catch me.... I fight dexers 1v1 all the time and I get beat many a time... I suggest you do something else smart dexers can do that archers can't........ Disarm.... can't hurt you if I don't have my bow... Like I said..... gain some skill quit your whinning.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    lol you are obviously a noob and have no skill nor do you have any knowledge of the game! Here I will answer your silly uneducated post to lend credit that you are a nooblette!

    "next lets factor in that if you want to drink a pot you have to disarm." wow such an inconvience to run drop weapon drink pot and rearm! Ohh then again most archers that have good bows have <font color="red"> </font> A BALANCED BOW <font color="red"> </font>

    "you can't use 90% of the skill abilities of Bushido" So you can't evade, big deal! Bushido has been nerfed to no end anyways! Confidence still works now doesnt it! Lightning Strike still works too! You can still get a lesser Hyru to dismount for you! Gee, sounds to me like your wrong again.

    "learn to PvP" lol I might now be the number 1 guy in UO at pvping, but I can beat just about 99% of the UO population in a duel or in the field regardless of class.

    "secret for you...... Moving shot hits while I'm moving but it is at a reduced damage" ohh really ! I got a secret for you too! How about that moving mortal? Where you switch weapons before the arrow hits and it switches the speacial too? Oh you didnt know that did you noob!

    "and yes I can keep one step out of your reach but you know... you can catch me." I can avoid a dex warrior all day long. Throw in confidence or bandages and fighting a dexer is almost funny.

    "Disarm.... can't hurt you if I don't have my bow... Like I said..... gain some skill quit your whinning" Yeah you can disarm and the archer then bolts for the hills! In theory it sounds peachy but in reality your not going to get too many kills unless the archer is a noob like you.

    I don't need to whine! I have several accounts with several archers. I can easily switch to the gimpest template faster than anyone else in the game.

    As Goldberg pointed out I have enough gold to buy the best equipment and fully stock all my characters. Point is playing a point and click template is really quite boring. I only complain about imbalances, simply because I enjoy a challenge.
    Archery is overpowered, anyone trying to deny that it is perfectly balanced is saying that because that is the skill they use!
     
  29. What about Ornate Axes? They are more powerful than the majority of bows yes?

    I can swing one faster than I can swing most of my bows yes?

    The people that cry on these forums are the same that blame their boss for being bad at their job....


    People continually cry nerf and in the end it makes the game worse and worse an worse....

    If you nerf one thing, then the people who got nerfed will cry until you nerf what they can't fight....
     
  30. <blockquote><hr>

    And what's the wep that most Archers use nowadays? Heavy X-Bow, hard hitting and has Moving Shot. Only difference between Offensive and Defensive for a Archer with one is that when Offensive they're following you, when Defensive you're following them, in both situation's they're capable of dishing out large amounts of damage with Moving Shot.
    That's not including if they have Velocity or a Hit Effect on their' wep, if not both. Another imbalance. Ever been hit with a Conc Blow from a Archer using a X-Bow with both Lightning and Velocity on it? Believe me, 2 hit kills EASILY possible with them.

    A Moving Shot from a X-Bow and a Mage has to stop to cast a heal, which gives the Archer time to get away. Even if the mage does manage to get Disarm off on the Archer, the Mage has to stop to cast spells, which is when the Archer gets away.

    [/ QUOTE ]




    You can easily G heal through heavy x bow shots at 2 6 casting... OR heal through them with healing....or spirit speak between the shots.... or confidence..... chug a potion...... 4 6 chiv heal?

    You're pointing at the slowest wep in game as being gimp?

    archers running away from the mage? if you have dci or a fighting skill... the archer will miss eventually... in which case you can cast..... a mage can run away from the archer too.... and if the archer follows with moving shot? Stop and heal between shots... IT IS A SLOW WEAPON. Don't want the archer to get away? Stun punch him....

    again, bad players cry at things they don't understand.
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I don't have trouble with archers...........
     
  32. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    116
    <blockquote><hr>

    I don't have trouble with archers...........

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Agreed! In fact i like archers better than mages now.
     
  33. Azmira Zalof

    Azmira Zalof Guest

    Funny, coming from the guy who's guild runs all necro SW'ers, moving shot archers, and tamer dexxers. You'd think you guys would diversify templates if there weren't clearly overpowered ones...