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Recycling of smithed items

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Borric, Mar 29, 2009.

  1. Borric

    Borric Seasoned Veteran
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    The recent change to lumber jacking got me thinking about recycling of smithed items. Do we really need to know how to dig up ore in order to recycle smithed items? Its great that I dont have to swap carpentry between my craftsman and resource gatherer. Personally, I think it would be nice to not have mining on my carftsman, but what do you fine folks think?

    Borric
     
  2. von Beck

    von Beck Guest

    I agree. Resource gatherer and crafter templates need to be separated out.... especially with Imbuing in the wings for crafters, and resource gatherers requiring (ideally) some combat skills for feluccia.
     
  3. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Mining is MUCH more related to smelting metals than Blacksmithing, than lumberjacking is related to carpentry.

    The whole recycling part of smith items, is little different than the smelting of ores for ingots, other than you're starting with a purer raw material.

    In fact, traditionally & historically, all the smithing skills were divided BY METAL, while a miner was equally effective for nearly all metals and stones for purposes of digging them up. Refining would be an entirely separate skill, in that context (and a lot of knowledge on refining/selecting would carry over across multiple metals and stones) - but it is much more closely related to the raw material, than the finished product, end of the spectrum, so it would be more logical to base it on mining.

    I say nay.
     
  4. Borric

    Borric Seasoned Veteran
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    Thats a very good point Basara. Should miners then need smithing to smelt ore? Just a thought.

    Borric
     
  5. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Probably a better thing to do would make it to where a smith can recycle metals that they can craft with, BUT be capped at a maximum 50% return (like tailor recycling) if they don't have mining.

    Mining's current effect on recycling is Smith Recycling Ingot Return = 0.66 * Mining skill (rounded down) (+1 if using a salvage bag).

    A miner/smith recycling items should get back more than a smith without mining (who knows little of how to purify metal, instead being more aware of how to ADD things to a metal during crafting to get desired attributes).

    So, you could have recycling use the better of the two skills' returns, with

    Mining-based recycling being 0.66 * Mining skill

    and

    Blacksmith-based recycling being (0.3, 0.33 or 0.4; all would be sufficient) * Blacksmith skill (capped at 50%, if using an ASH to go beyond 120).
     
  6. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    Smithing should give you a 25% chance to smelt without mining, to return up to 50% of iron ingots at 120. You only get colored ingots by having mining.

    With mining, you can smelt 100% of the time (based on color of ore, of course), and you should get from 60-82% of the ingots based on 60+ (mining+smithing)/200 X 20.
     
  7. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    Following Basara's line of thought, the mining skill should include the ability to refine ore into ingots. But Smthing should allow a smith to re-smelt or melt items that are already made from refined metal. I like the idea that having mining would increase the amount of ingots received from smelting.

    As Basara also alluded to, in days of old, a Smith would typically only work with 1 metal or 1 category of metals...

    Blacksmith: Iron or iron alloys such as steel. The term "Blacksmith" is based on the dark or black color of iron when it is in ingot or cold form.

    Whitesmith: worked with white metals such as tin or pewter.

    Coppersmith: worked with copper and its alloys (Brass, bronze). With the discovery of iron, most Coppersmiths switched to Blacksmithng.

    Silversmith: worked with Silver (Paul Revere was a Silversmith). Mostly done with cold metal. Forks, spoons, knives, plates, teapots, jewelry.

    Goldsmith: Gold, of course, They also worked with other precious metals including platinum, copper, and silver. In fact most Silversmiths and Goldsmiths worked with the same metals, but were known by their primary metal (either silver or gold). Both smiths made jewelry which also included precious gems or stones. If they made armor or weapons, they were only show pieces because gold and silver are too soft to protect or clash with other weapons in battle.
     
  8. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    My thoughts went in the other direction tbh. If a smith with mining can reclaim ingots, why can't a carpenter who has lumberjack reclaim boards? After all re-claimed timber is perfectly possible in the real world.
     
  9. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Same thoughts here Petra, wooden items should be recyclable.

    Tinkering too - I mean someone who fiddles around with little bits of metal to make tools and jewellery should be capable of pulling those bits apart too ;)

    Bit more awkward for fletchers, but you'd expect they'd manage to turn a dodgy bow into some arrow shafts.

    Wenchy
     
  10. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    Sure. You can reclaim lumber, but you are usually left with scraps. There would have to be something like a "Chip board" or "Particle Board" or even a Plywood or veneer gump option. You'd never be able to make a weapon out of re-used wood. Most metals can be recycled indefinitely with no loss of the original abilities of the metal.
     
  11. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Aye, it would depend on what you're recycling. But if you took apart a large table for example, you should have plenty of usable timber. Small stuff = kindling until we learn to make plywood ;)

    Wenchy
     
  12. Borric

    Borric Seasoned Veteran
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    If I got Basaras idea right, smiths without mining can recylce 30-40% of ingots, while smiths with mining will get more recycled ingots form items. This indeed makes more sense than just *removing* the requirement.

    Borric

    PS - I would also like to see recycling extended to carpentry and tinkering as well. Even stonecratfing.
     
  13. AxiamInc

    AxiamInc Seasoned Veteran
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    While I do agree that you would mainly get scraps back from most wooden armor/weapons/shields. It isn't too far fetched to think that you could at least get some arrows or bolts from the larger pieces of scrap wood that you recycled?
     
  14. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    Mehh either way i don't much mind be cool change so i don't have to relog to get my miner when i finish smithing to smelt all the junk.
     
  15. miss uo

    miss uo Guest

    Totally agree with this.
     
  16. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    *ahem* PAPER *ahem*
     
  17. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Someone mentioned board recycling on Craftsman, and my ideas were as follows:

    1. All items could be recycled to shafts (after all, most wooden items will have parts big enough to make bolts, but not much else). OF course, this would lose the wood entirely. This would probably be the best you could do with weapons, ESPECIALLY bows.

    2. Implement it as a Salvage bag only (since the bag appears to be magical): Have it recycle wood items back to the component boards at half the rate of smith return (that would be 0.33 * carpentry or lumberjack skill), +1 for using the bag. Arrows, bolts, shafts, etc. would not be recyclable. The big problem here is the number of deed items there are, and that recycling Dragon Barding Deeds was recently removed due to some issues I never personally encountered, but stemmed from the recycling of deeds.

    The Paper & Plywood/particle board ideas aren't bad either. Plywood could only be used for deedable items, and cannot result in exceptional quality. Paper, on the other hand, is LONG overdue for crafting.
     
  18. gjohnson5

    gjohnson5 Guest

    My blacksmith has mining because smelting doesn't work well without it....
    So yes , I mine and craft with the same char. It's too much of a hassle going back and fourth. I have enough mules as it is