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Redefine The Crafter

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Zyon Rockler, Jun 2, 2010.

  1. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    This post is old news and some new. The main point is to try to make everything equally useable but specific to be more proficient in different classes.

    This post would probably take a tremendous amount of writing but i'm going to try to, hopefully, get some feedback.

    First of all, I would like to see everything made the same. For example: we have metal and we have wood and leather, stone, glass, i'm just going to stop here. I think the system should be redone so that all of these are identical and each time a resource is added, it can also have the exact same property.

    So we have different metal types. Each metal type produces a specific type of resistance or damage.

    I would like to see every piece identical. For example: A GM Smith produces a platemail chest piece made with iron ore, then he produces another one, and they stack because they are identical.

    Now, he uses dull copper, now the resistances change, you get more resistance but it's still identical and again the breast plates will stack but they will not stack with the iron because of the slight difference. This will continue all the way up to a valorite piece, which will have the max resistance.

    So, if you make a suit using iron, you'll get maybe 50 resistance across the board and if you use valorite, you will get a suit with 70 resistance across the board.

    The color of the metal should always be the same, shiny, iron look but it should read as whatever type of metal was used, so the crafter can easily identify his resource. This is important to stop the mixed-matched uniforms and also to start everything at a base value.

    Runics would also no longer be random but would give certain bonuses. So, again if you used a dull copper runic you would get magic properties placed on those types of metals but they would not be random.

    The only property that would be random would be a select few, such as, luck, slayer type, self repair, and night sight.

    All of the other ones would be definitely present if the right runic was used. For example: a valorite runic might produce mage armour and lower regeant cost 10.

    Removing the random factor increases the ability to work and create and to better set a goal.

    If they were to do the same with leather the only difference being, we do not have leather weapons yet, although, they might be able to make leather handles for weapons that would help to keep both identical.

    So, they would have to add more types of leather to match the metal and the stone and the glass and so on.

    So, now, we're talking about the benefits of properties these types of rescources would give you. Such as, leather being medable and studded maybe adding a defense chance but lowering mana as chainmail to plate but being non medable and giving a bonus to dexterity.

    So, the top part is easier to make more uniform because you can say what types of properties would be added. The complicated part is putting them into a class. Such as, glass and wood.

    So, for example: glass weapons would have a base value to be faster and possibly cut for more damage and maybe have an inherited ability to cause bleed. Whereas, the same affect, of glass armour would have a possibility to lose durability and to shard and cause you to bleed.

    These are the properties that I think are lacking from the game and to actually get to that point, where you can say a property will do this or a property will do that, you first have to organize and have a better re-defined definition and remove the random properties for better functionality.

    This is just my opinion but I can't see adding to something that is already kinda complicated without first trying to simplify it.
     
  2. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Imbuing would add to that. What this would do is add for the ability to take out your smith character, put your smith hammer in your hand, pull some val ingots and make a suit for a player that is all 70's.

    It would define why he should wear the heavy metal plate.

    Alot of this idea is caused by the simplicity of what the game had when it was first opened and what is now lost.

    And your question is asking why I would not want to complicate the game more.

    The difference is that a smith would still be a viable skill for a tailor or a glass blower because they're able to produce a basic suit that meets the needs of anyone. So, we're talking about the high end being all 70's and 100 lower regeant cost. To me, this is a basic suit that you should be able to produce with any one of those said skills.

    This builds off the imbue idea because to get those high end materials is not easy. For example: valorite. Also, the nonsense of mages wearing plate metal or mis-matched uniforms or the endless, random pieces that at a basic level of material and skill produce nothing.

    Runics could still produce random property, just not the resistances. So, you could still make your basic iron suit and then imbue more resistance onto it or you could use valorite and not need to imbue resistances onto it.
     
  3. Or we could just remove all item properties and go back to the good ole "of Might" "of Power" and "of Vanquishing" suffixes on magical items, and make all crafted exceptional gear +30%,to damage or AR, remove vendor repair deeds, make crafters be NEEDED again, not just an afterthought.

    Sorry, I'm bored as I'm grinding my Carpentry up on my toon. I hate the fact that every freaking piece of furniture I find in peoples shops are all crazy colors....I think I'm going to open a shop where everything is the natural color it is originally crafted in. No dying, no neons, all natural baby.
     
  4. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    It's true, everything has a weird color just starts looking to unrealistic. I know it's a fantasy game but if it was a Sci-Fi game you wouldn't expect to see donkeys.

    But you have given me a great idea. One of the basic points of this post is to say that the types of wood or ore give what you're making a special property not just a weird color. When you produce something, with say, frostwood, it should still come out looking like regular wood. The only difference being, the properties.

    So, the idea is, place timers on furniture, so that your furniture starts to break. Maybe items in your house could go to the moving crate but the idea here is that your furniture would not last forever but if made with say, frostwood, it might last alot longer.
     
  5. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    That's what She said...

    :lol:
     
  6. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    ditto, I now have a reason to burn through mu runics! Burning them guarntees me residue, essence and sometimes relics. while all at the same time giving em a chance to get something worth modifying or imbuing further. Its a win win. Crafting HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT THE CHANCE. throughout the years of UO GM and then Legendary crafters didnt get rich just becuase they were a GM or Legendary, they got it becuase they had the skill to increase the CHANCE of crafting that awsome elite weapon or armour.

    There is no reason to change it at all.

    Stackable armour? You were joking right?
     
  7. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    Im gonna call Kay Jewlers and ask them to make my diamonds and sapphires the same color, the only difference being diamonds cost more. Valorite and Shadow Iron cannot be the same color, The different colors are fine the way they are.

    I will agree with you's on one point though that some of the new dyes are freaking ridiculous. But to each his own.
     
  8. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    :lol:
     
  9. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Or we could just remove all item properties and go back to the good ole "of Might" "of Power" and "of Vanquishing" suffixes on magical items

    Might, Power, and Vanquishing wre *gasp!* PROPERTIES.
     
  10. Sakamoto

    Sakamoto Guest

    Ah the sweet memories of standing at Brit forge, having chitchats with likeminded crafters, being a trusted crafter was something to strife for, repair deeds was not even on the drawingboard.

    I miss those times, but all they are is sweet memories, they will never come back.

    Even if they decided to step back in time, it would not change much, as the game is so old, that only the few newbies do not have their own crafter, the workload would be less than minimal, and the few crafters standing at public forges, trying to sell their services would be bored to death.

    For that to actually work, you would have to remove insurance and POF.

    Try to imagine the drama, when they publish that in the next patch we will remove all properties, going back to the old ones, all POF will cease to exists, repairdeeds will be gone, and you can no longer insure your items.

    The game would die faster than you can say wtf.

    Dont think for a second, that I dont miss the beginning of UO, it was a blast of dimensions.

    Games today spoonfeed the players, all have to be as equal as possible, so everybody and his mother can get the shinies for minimal effort.

    It works, look at WoW, you can have almost the best of the best, doing nothing but facerolling your way through the game. Still they are the most selling MMO ever.

    Add to that, that anything in WoW is a wannabe version, of what it is in UO.

    Be glad that UO still exists, sure it could use an overhaul bigtime, there are a lot of things that could done smarter and better, but at least you have more freedom than in any other MMO outthere.

    I have only been back for like a week, but I am having more fun here, than I did in WoW for a very long time. Most likely it is the becourse it feels new again, time will tell.
     
  11. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    First off, nothing on a computer is random because you have to give it a formula that basically says, for example, pick a number from 1 to 10. The only way this would be random would be if the number was from 1 to infinity, which in theory could never happen because it would never reach infinity.

    So, basically, it predicts what the number should be by teaching it what it can choose from. An example, of that would be, up and down, on or off. You can easily predict it would be 1 or the other, open closed and so on. You can't say it's random because you set peramiters as being 1 or the other. Random means it could be anything.

    So, with that said, if it was really random, would not a normal smith hammer work the same as a val hammer? They use a formula that tells it to pick this, rather than that, and this is ok but do this more. It's not really random at all is it?

    This is known as intelligent design, believe it or not.
     
  12. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    So, you have 6 pieces of armour in the game right now, for humans.

    So, a val breast piece would have 12 resis across the board. Now, the rest could be done so you still get 70s but not to all resis'.

    So, an iron breast piece could give 12 physical. Dull copper 12 physical, 12 fire, kind of like it is now but the pieces would be identical.

    Then, you add the bonus no one sees that is inherited from using metal, say that is stamina regain 3 on each piece.

    Then, you add the fact that it is plate, defense chance each piece.

    If it was chain, maybe swing speed 3 each piece.

    This is what's needed to tie all the loose ends up and make it so you can smith gear that is useable.

    Your skill could determine the durability, so at 120 using a +60 for 180, every piece has 180 durability.

    Runics can still be random resis but should not be random with some magic properties, like adding mana regain or adding hit points. The only thing that should be on a random grab pool should be slayer, night sight, luck. This makes it so you know what you will get basically.

    So, runics would be used to make a type of suit, like mage, lower regeant. You would need a special runic to place it on plate but leather armour, if the right leather is used, might produce a base lower regeant cost bonus.

    When runics are used, it would cause pieces to spike or drop. So, if it was val that could add up to 24 or drop 12 putting it at 0 and iron the same with physical.

    So, with that summed up a bit, you then can imbue. So, now you can make suits over 70s if your all about resis'.

    So, we can see stuff added that disables armour or lowers armour's resis, like spellls or spawns or types of weapons that can cause you to lose 20 physical and if you had 90 it would not matter to you.

    Again, all the systems would be the same, so more leather types added and runics, wood runics, stone, glass.

    To simplify the systems add runics to loot drop or add BoD systems to all of these types.
     
  13. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    As I understand what the OP is saying, I do no like this idea.

    Say, for instance, I am trying to make some gloves to complete my suit, and i want them to have LRC, LMC, mage armor, and night sight.

    I would need a special runic to make this? Or would it not be possible under the OPs system because LRC needs one special runic, but LMC uses another, and night sight needs a third? Is this right?

    As it is now, I have a chance at making this suit with a runic, I just have to get lucky is all. I like that "randomness". I may get lucky, or I may not. Same as I might find this item on the corpse of a greater dragon, and if i want to bunp it up, maybe take the riks to enhance it.

    And I know that I could use imbuing for this, but if I were going to imbue anyway, I would probably just design my suit from the outset and not even bother with the runics at all. Just imbue away.
     
  14. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Oh, and as far as the "muted colors" vs. "neon" argument that never seems to die.

    i am reminded ofthe Riftwar books. Although the original world Midkemia(?) was a medieval setting with what would be considered "normal" colors, the Tsurani, when they came through the rift and when the books went to their land Kelewan(?), they had very brightly colored armor, weapons, etc.
     
  15. You know exactly what type of properties I was referring to Dermott. Why do you have to have a freaking calculator now days to figure out if your suit is good or not? Why do we have to have SSI, LRC, Resists and all that jazz? What was wrong with having a percentage boost to your weapons damage, your tactic skill, and durability? What was wrong with the AR system?

    UO has lost a lot of players who probably would have stayed if they had just kept to the KISS method, Keep It Simple Stupid. Having to have spreadsheets and calculators, constantly browse websites for the latest and greatest in the way of gear is not fun for a lot of people. It's kind of like work. Something most of us play a game to get away from.

    Seriously, seeing a "Massive Mighty Katana of Vanquishing" tells me that it has a durability boost, gives me a bonus to my tactics and damage. It's a lot easier to understand then say:

    Soul Seeker
    Repond Slayer
    Hit Stamina Leech 40%
    Hit Mana Leech 30%
    Hit Life Leech 30%
    Swing Speed Increase 60%
    Cold Damage 100%

    True, the Soul Seeker is one of the more easily understood weapons, but the fact of the matter is still the fact that you still need to think about a lot of these properties, which makes the game less fun. I want to pick up a weapon and know, "this is one of the best magical weapons in the game" as opposed to "let me break out the calculator and see how this new piece of armor that just dropped off this mob will affect my suit...will I lose my 100% LRC if I equip it? Will one of my resists drop to 65?"

    Making this game even more esoteric is what drove a lot of players away after Age of Shadows was released.
     
  16. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    I think crafting is as good as it has been at the moment. There are presently only 10 val runic hammers for sale across all shards. (I checked each shard by hand ;p). Prior to imbuing there were common reports on these boards of hammer inventory in the 30's.

    This tells me that a problem has been largely corrected by imbuing.

    Serious crafters are earning quite a bit of gold these days by taking the time to fill bods. Prices of fort are at record levels. Clothing bless deeds as well. These are things that have brisk demand and are items that the regular joe player can get if he puts in a bit of effort.

    Imbuing gives you freedom to put together a suit anyway you wish. As to the choice of colors, well as true in life not everyone has the same sense of style.

    *shrugs*
     
  17. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    ok gang lets put away the photo albums, and scrapbooks of uo's past. look to the future, imbuing has put a new spin on things we used to only dream of achieving with crafting armor and jewelry. it almost sounds like your bored with what you already have attained. i know this because ive had bouts with,i even scrapped carpentry on my crafter because im not really into deco and the armor is less than appealing. with imbuing i foresee changes to the crafting on the horizon that doesnt just entail armor and wep's. if we push for adding ideas they just might come.as far as stackable armor goes, ask the devs for coat hangers
     
  18. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    For this idea to work, you really don't have to change runics at all or imbuing. They could stay exactly the same. I was only suggesting that some specifics would no longer be random with runics. So, if you wanted to add dexterity or intel, you could do it by picking the right runic. This way you could involve skills.

    For example: If you were going to create a suit for a thief and stealing needed to have stamina, you might pick leather, which would automatically give inherited properties of a good passive med. Then, you might pick studded, which would slightly slow the med but give +5 stamina to each piece, which might only work if all the pieces were made of studded.

    So, then you could pick a runic that would always add stamina because you're trying to optimize the skill.

    So, if more runics were created and more leather were created and a special tool was added, such as a pair of scissors +60 tailoring (because remember we are trying to keep everything matched) so, now you use your leather that we will cal val leather, for this example, so now you craft the basic suit without the runic and it comes out all 70s, studded leather which holds the inherited bonus and each piece has the durability of 180 because your skill is equal to the durability.

    So, now the guy can use the suit without runics or without imbuing but you would have the option to use a runic and add more properties or you could add alittle more durability and imbue the items and have an even more customized suit.

    Also, cloth could be added, like we have Abyssmal cloth. So, now you add, like you have metal different types of cloth that can be built, like iron cloth or valorite cloth, where these types could get more interesting because you could create a wizard hat, wizard cloak, wizard robe and then from the carpentar a special staff wrapped in this special cloth, where you could have just these items on and be able to have all 70s resistance, with a really awesome mana regain and lower regeant properties. Basically, we're talking about having properties on things such as hats, shirts, pants, things made from cloth.

    The sets though could be made powerful and block the use of other slots. For example: If you had a full suit of armour on that gave you all 70s and then you wore the wizard hat, cloak, robe and staff, it would cancel the other suit out. So, basically, suits when completed, like a full plate suit would not give the inherited properties unless the whole suit was made of plate or the whole suit was made of leather, etc...
     
  19. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    The only reason that I used the word "Stack" was to get the point across that the items would be identical and it is just my belief that if the item is identical, it should be able to stack.
     
  20. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Renyard, I've long been a critic of the excess power levels of various mods and in favor of returning to a 5-tiered power system (including the new mods) that was based on the older style.

    I'd also prefer a return to the AR/Resist VS Medability/Dex/Stam system that was alive prior to AOS when you saw many different styles of suits tailored to balancing to one extreme, the other, or somewhere in between.

    Thirdly, you don't need a calculator if you're using the EC, it has the totals of all of the main mods present in the character sheet and as icons that can be put on a hotbar.

    Mainly though, the point of the post (beyond being a little flippant) is really to point out that saying that pre-AOS UO didn't have items with properties is a misstatement. The properties were called something different, but they were properties nonetheless.