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Refinements YES or NO

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kage, Apr 5, 2013.

?

Do you want Armor Refinements?

  1. YES

    29 vote(s)
    20.4%
  2. NO

    113 vote(s)
    79.6%
  1. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    Do you want Refinements? YES or NO....


    My reason behind this poll is because I was talking to Bleak on Test Center and I strait up asked him why was they going to put it in when I see nothing but negative post about it.

    His response was you guys are not the only ones playing the game then said he had to leave.... So I would like to see for my self how many people actually Like the idea of refinements.
     
    #1 Kage, Apr 5, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
  2. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I voted No!

    The game needs to be made less complicated and more fun, not more complicated and less fun.
     
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  3. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    I have to agree, also those refinements are undermining the game balancements :/
     
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  4. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    Here's a clue guys. Make the beautiful game less complicated. Goodbye refinements.
     
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  5. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    I just texted my elderly mother about it. Her reply was " What are you talking about Michael?". So maybe a yes vote there.
     
    #5 hen, Apr 5, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
  6. chise2

    chise2 Sage
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    So far none lol! Well actually I kinda like the idea of them but donlt like how they implemented it. And at this point I rather see them just go away for now. This publish is bloated enough and even with this latest patch refinements are still imbalanced *still have the 95% cap I think* But MAYBE just MAYBE this could open their eyes but donlt get your hopes up..


    Hmm wait a moment seems I may be wrong looks like Bleak just posted that the cap will be lowered to 70% I think a bit lower would be best but that is MUCH more reasonable! *still think refinements should be left out for now though lol*
     
    #6 chise2, Apr 5, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
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  7. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    For what I understand, the japanese players have a VERY different playstyle, and they are MUCH more than the european + american players. Perhaps the japanese loves the refinements and in that case the publish will go live as it is :/
     
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  8. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    No here as well, I agree with Tanivar for the most part.

    Is there a possibility for new systems in the future? Sure, as long it's simple and straight forward in it's intention. It would be nice if a few other systems were "streamlined" as well, but that's a topic for a different discussion.

    *Kudos to all you players that enjoy UO's (I would argue overly) intricate crafting system, I can certainly understand the aversion to simplifying some systems.*
     
    #8 ShadowTrauma, Apr 5, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
  9. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    And maybe paragon gorillas will fly out of my butt.
     
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  10. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    it would not be the fist time that something like that goes live no matter what the people think :/
     
  11. Spiritless

    Spiritless Seasoned Veteran
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    In my opinion the armor system with imbuing, etc. is already ridiculously complex for new players. I returned several months ago after a long period of absence and play casually and I'm still confused as hell these days with all the property caps, weights, imbuing potential, etc.

    Anything that adds further complexity is unwelcome. It's a really steep learning curve for new and returning players already.
     
  12. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    It took me a little bit of catch up reading to see what Kage had posted (and then your response to him) to realize that your statement might unfortunately (for us) hold some merit. I would greatly appreciate being told if that was indeed the reasoning. I'm not going to rant and complain on the issue if we are told yes, rather I will then be able to make an informed decision on if I will continue investing my time and energy in UO's (overly complicated) future.
     
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  13. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I'm not against the idea persay... but what is currently being proposed is not great. 95% dci is ridiculous, and there are needless steps in the process. You shouldn't need to MAKE refinements. Like cut out the items you have to purchase to MIX with the other ingredients you find. Its like cannon balls creation... needless steps just take away from the enjoyment.
     
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  14. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    The idea of refinements isn't bad (pvm), it allows strengths and weakness into your suit based on what you prefer to fight... 95% dci cap was too high...

    Refinements are more balanced now than it says in the publish notes.
    70% DCI will become the new refined cap, dexer vs dexer pvp is the only thing effected.
     
  15. Lord Gandalf

    Lord Gandalf Babbling Loonie
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    Make the game more complicated, but pls do not expect returning players ever again...

    ...so no for refinements!


    ICQ: 211341921
     
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  16. O'siris

    O'siris Journeyman
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    No!!! just more added nonsense!
     
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  17. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    Where is the option for "It doesn't matter what I vote because the Dev's have already made up their mind on this crap"?
     
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  18. Parnoc

    Parnoc Lore Master
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    My sentiments exactly and well said, signed with a flourish!!
     
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  19. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    I've been playing for quite some time now and I have yet to get my smith over 101 something. Mostly due to lack of interest of making better armour. My questions is, can I still wear the stuff I find from monsters and still fight monsters? If I can, then I can't vote, cause honestly I don't even know what refinement is. If it is going to be that I need some specialized armour to even leave the porch to fend off the mongbat brigade, then....nay! Nay to the refinement!
     
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  20. Arrgh

    Arrgh Sage
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    I'd pay money to see that! :popcorn:
     
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  21. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    We must also remember that not all european + american players even post here. The Devs know what % of UO players post here and we are probley a small % of the total players, at least I hope we are.
     
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  22. Arrgh

    Arrgh Sage
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    This should encourage new pvp smack talk at the least, if there are any pvp'ers left after this anyway...look at that fail suit!!! NOW, to find my calculator, a couple of scientists, make a spreadsheet, go out and farm several thousand more ingredients...it's looking like being a fisherman is the route I'm gonna go, yep. :pirate:
     
    #22 Arrgh, Apr 5, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
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  23. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    Okay I just tried to read about it and I voted no. I can do my taxes easier than understanding refinement. :( and I have to pay to get mage armour on a item now? 250,000!!!??? um... not all of us are rich you Foolish UO !!!! Oh? you are new to the game and want to be a spell caster? That will be 1,500,000 gold please! PFFFT!!! oh I know... I am overacting. *grumbles*
     
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  24. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    I have as much interest in "refinements" as I have in a need to maintain spreadsheets (which is why I lost any real interest in crafting some time ago). I love UO, but I can't say I appreciate everything that has happened to UO, particularly the ever-increasing complexity.
     
  25. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I vote to put you all beck in the stone age and remove all non pre AoS armore and weapons ...
    Not meaning to distroy your shiny new stuff, but make it a deco only...
    Then you all can start to remember how armor and smiths were hand in hand operation and it worked.
    You had a need you looked up a smith.. you hunted till you found a good piece ... no fancy stuff.
    ok pipe dream ended...

    Look all I do of late in the way of armor and weapons is yell for my son to explain what the hadies is up with it..(i get lost in the math trying to find a working set)
    He too is befuddled of late with all the changes over the math you need to figure out what should be simple..
    In 97 all I had to know was the basic info of the different types and that if it says Invun.... run not walk to your home or bank box and hope no one saw you get it!
    I knew what was best then, and it worked. Today there is so much "junk" you need a "UO Armor & Weapons dictionary and a calculator" and a few hours to understand the basics of it. Is it asking too much for a simpler system... where i dont need calc, trig, and quantum theory in math to get a suit that is gunna stand up to a monster.
     
  26. Andrasta

    Andrasta Goodman's Rune Library
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    This..
     
  27. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    We really need the Devs and Stratics staff to log on and get that yes vote up a bit!
     
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  28. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    2 yes 32 no is rather telling dont you think?
     
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  29. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    UUMMM did they make leather armor non-med?
     
  30. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    My question on refinements is this.
    Will all these changes change the way I PVM now? I have tested the Stam Lose with my current suits, copied them to TC, and the Stam Lose has not been affected. I have an all med suits (non-imbued) so it gives the same as it always did. I get the idea that refinements could help these suits but am I going to be forced to do it.? If not than refinements are an added bonus and those that do not use them should stay the same, so it will not change my game play at all.

    As far as PvP goes I will let the hard core PvPers hash that one out.
     
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  31. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    Maybe someone with mulitple accounts?
     
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  32. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Maybe you could reply to this.
     
  33. ShadowTrauma

    ShadowTrauma Seasoned Veteran
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    I realize that this poll only represents a small percentage of the playerbase, but I must admit it feels nice knowing I'm not alone with my disappointment for this new system (in it's current state), and possibly not alone in my frustrations with the crafting system in general.

    Brief overview on current crafting method.
    1 - Know how much resist, stats, and mods your suit needs. Plan each item's properties/weights. *This often involves a spread sheet/calculator of some type.*
    2 - Craft base armor piece repeatedly until exceptional (Max Arms lore bonus as well) resist bonuses fall where needed. *Blegh, extremely tedious...*
    3 - Decide if item needs to be reforged to get a specific reforge only mod, roll the dice because this whole process is still exceedingly mostly random... *Repeat step one if you weren't lucky, you likely were not. Sigh*
    4 - Powder said item if desired. *This step could use improvements in it's own right.*
    5 - Imbue the item if needed and if said item has weight left. *Honestly my favorite step, because it's not random, and is very straightforward.*
    *6* - Use a forged metal artifact to enhance the item when done, maximizing said item weight/resists. *Expensive and increases calculations needed for deciphering resists.*
    * Now we will need to also take into account Refinements and add to the already lengthy, often tedious, arguably complex crafting process if we desire to use them, and if they prove advantageous to use most will feel the need to do so. *

    Now I will readily admit that I am aware not everyone crafts to this extent, but can you just see the fun oozing out of these tasks?

    P.S. - A brief thank you to the sites that have help with these issues. Thank you http://uo2.stratics.com/ , http://www.uoguide.com/Main_Page , and last, but not least, thank you http://www.knuckleheads.dk/ . May you all continue to help players in the future. -
     
    #33 ShadowTrauma, Apr 5, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
  34. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    I don't know, but I do know I find nice armour pieces with mage armour on it so I can use them for my various warriors so they can get their mana back faster for special moves and chiv moves. If the only way I am going to be able to get mage armour is by paying an npc to convert it for it, that's just plain ridiculous.
     
  35. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    Sorry had to vote yes. I like spreadsheets though especially excel :coco: . Besides 70 dci still makes me wonder if I can drop parry
    on my sampire. Had it stayed at 95 I would have definitely went with no. I know it's not a popular vote
    but then again I've never been a popular type of guy.
     
  36. chise2

    chise2 Sage
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    If your a spellcaster you would just wear leather and not worry about mage armor at all.
     
  37. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    No where does it say that Mage Armor will not spawn on pieces, so you should still be able to find those pieces in loot.
     
  38. chise2

    chise2 Sage
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    For pvm at least I think they will just be an added bonus but not necessary. For pvp I guess we will see.
     
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  39. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Simple NO!
     
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  40. Irulia Darkaith

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    What bothers me most about refinements is that the devs spent time and resources developing a way to make the game more complicated rather than improving the game and making it more enjoyable for the majority. I seriously doubt that even people who like refinements would have them at the top of their UO wish list.

    Regarding the question about them being required for PvM. Of course they won't be required. Technically you don't have to use imbued/reforged items and artifacts. Technically you don't have to use power scrolls. But good luck being effective in PvM without them. Refinements are another example of "armor" inflation. Now that refined suits are possible it's just a matter of time before you'll be required to have a closet full of speciality suits to take on newly created monsters or survive the next dungeon revamp. Hope I'm wrong about that, but until the spreadsheet guru's figure out the net-effect I won't be wasting time and ingredients on building new suits.
     
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  41. Felonious Monk

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    Your assuming that we are actually qualified to vote. Qualified being from the experience of logging on to tc1 and fully perusing all aspects of the new system. Understanding the variables and and voting from THAT perspective. I wonder how many people here have fully tested whats available on tc1. I haven't and I aint votin because the IDEA of refinements isn't worth basing a poll on.
     
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  42. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Do I want them?

    After the HLD change to 35% and the dci being capped at 70, i don't really care, now. they aren't going to HURT anything really

    Will I use them? Only in very small doses.
     
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  43. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    See they never learned a thing from the faction changes did they. The players said they didn't want the faction changes they begged for them not to be put onto live servers, but the devs decided they knew better.

    Deja vu anyone?
     
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  44. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
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    There's loads of pvp on League of Legends....
    And wow that voting race on refinement is neck and neck lol :stretcher:
     
  45. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    It is, but it seems to be more telling that people don't want to bother to read and or actually think about how it will effect them, because the general complaint is that its "too complicated" when its not a complicated concept in the least (sacrifice resists for dci cap increase or vice versa), or that it's going to somehow make things harder for people, but if you stop to consider it you will realize that refinement is a completely optional change, especially if you don't pvp.

    All refinement will do is make it EASIER to fight monsters. If you don't like it, and want things to be like they are now.... THEN JUST IGNORE REFINEMENT and the game will be just like it is now. The only change that will be mandatory with this publish is that you now have to wear heavy armor in melee combat which has nothing to do with refinement.

    Now that they dropped it to 70, I would probably change my vote to yes. My main concern was that it had far too much potential to be OP. I dislike how they added in the unnecessary extra step that you have to find and ingredient then MIX that with another ingredient you have to buy... but thats just an issue of tedium.
     
  46. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Did you actually bother to read the patch notes? Heavy armor now has inherent LMC to offset mana costs so you don't need mage armor, and mage armor still drops on monsters, and is still a result possible with runics.
     
  47. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    NO! And their borked up mage armor solution must go too!
     
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  48. chise2

    chise2 Sage
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    Yeah I MAY use them myself maybe in pvm but not really concerned about it. Really glad they changed hld and the dci to more reasonable numbers. Because before the hld effects were so devastating you practically had to use it if you were able to. Now I can use them if I want but no longer feel like I must use them. Still not thrilled they are implementing them right now like I have said before this publish is bloated enough but with these changes I can live with them and hope the system continues to improve. I am still hoping they will take the rest of the randomness component out. I mean when I use on those refinements I want for instance to know it will always modify 2 resists not use it then have a chance for it to go to three! And so on. I will probably just stick with the lowest level refinement just to be certain I can be in complete control of what happens.
     
  49. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Ask the fish in the bucket labled UOHall. No clue there is a bucket in the world for those fish that just play the game spending their online time playing UO labled "No more tears"

    In the PVP world there will never be balance. Refinement choice, Hmmmmm. Do I want spells to hurt less or sharp things to hit me less. Should not forget hanky if while in my higher cap resist suit, an archer starts shooting at me." Stop shooting at me I came here to only fight mages,,,,,,,,,,,MOM!"

    PVM you don't adjust your armor making it harder to hit you and then stand back and shooting arrows vs a fire breathing spell casting critter. You don't raise your resist making you easier to be hit and run into mob mosh pit.

    Don't use refinement and things are as they should be. Or use refinement and heed your mothers words, "you keep playing with that you'll go blind"
     
    #49 Warpig Inc, Apr 6, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
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  50. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    That 'tedium' is the complication, how much play time do the Devs think the average Player with a job, family, and a life, have to run around and do all these added steps? It's like with High Seas and cannon supplies. Gathering saltpeter is such a slow process it takes hours. While you may get 1000 saltpeter an hour while mining if the RNG is in a good mood, that's only 33 heavy cannon shots an hour even with a zero alchemy fail rate. Then there is all the time making potash & heavy powder charges. Is gathering the Refinement materials and processing them going to take as long? A Player could have to sit a week watching his crafter use up resources if he only has time to play a couple hours a few times a week. Not exciting things taking so dang long to do could be why some new & returning players don't stay with UO and decide to go play something else. Yawning during a couple hour play session watching & stocking a craftsman isn't anywhere near as fun as hunting & adventuring for most people.
     
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