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Reflect physical damage & Flagging bug... When will it be fixed?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Was there ever any word on this?

    I'm getting tired of archers being able to hit me first just to leave me end up flagged to them just so they can run in thier house, or evade counts etc. Especially when there are multiple stealth archers doing it.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I hate this bug with a passion. I removed all Reflect Physical armor from my mage suit just for this reason.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The bug has only been around for years so it will probably be fixed by 2010.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>


    Please look into the pet flagging bug also.

    Pets guarding a player will attack anything that attacks the pet owner, as they should, however this causes the pet owner to be flagged as an agressor when they shouldn't be flagged at all.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sounds like how I'd expect it to work TBH. If my pets chow down on someone's backside, they're my pets so I'd expect to take some responsibility for it.

    Just don't set pets to guard you in PvP situations. It's an annoying command at the best of times [​IMG]

    Wenchy
     
  5. Well .. since Leurocian DID actually post a note here ...

    Be a good time to list/describe ALL the flagging issues ...

    instead of piecemeal one by one ...

    each Piece ... of the

    Flagging SYStem ...

    just a thought ... any where would do ... here, there, new thread
     
  6. Lug

    Lug Lore Master
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    So you think it's ok if I see you with a "Guarded" tag over your head that its 100% ok for me to take advantage of this and attack you. Knowing darn well doing this will prevent you from being able to recall, use a moongate, enter a house, or call the guards?

    Even though you didn't attack anyone, you feel it's ok for you to be flagged an aggressor even though you're really the victim here - the one Being attacked?

    Even though the entire idea behind the aggressor flag was to stop PK's from attacking and then fleeing in combat... That this code now works against blues that haven't attacked anything and can't flee for safety?

    You feel its the blues fault for saying "all guard me"?

    I think it's save to say I totally disagree with your point of view and I'm pretty sure this is not working as it supposed to be working.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Awesome thanks so much for the saturday reply! [​IMG]


    As mentioned by another player there is also a FEW pet bugs. If you would like, I can explain them very very well and PM you them.

    There is another pet bug, lets say someone is grey, you attack them, you are all fightning and they go blue to everyone else (still grey to you). You put your pets on them (which are blue) and you instantly go grey, or get guard wacked. Its a quite annoying bug which at times makes 230 of my skill points unusable...

    If that could be looked into, I will buy you something cool on my home shard. Light bright sight lenses! muahaha :p
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've taken my pets to Fel. If I want them chomping someone's backside I tell them who to chomp and when. If someone attacked you while you had a weapon armed, you'd also be doing damage to them. Once you're doing damage back, I'd expect that you'd be "committed" to finishing the fight as it were. Don't attack in any way unless you're willing to accept the consequences. The all kill command is there to be used.

    Besides, I've found guard is utterly awful in busy spawn dungeons. If I need a pet to bit an attacking red, I don't want to find them climbing the walls to get to a skeleton [​IMG]

    Wenchy
     
  9. Lug

    Lug Lore Master
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    <blockquote><hr>

    If someone attacked you while you had a weapon armed, you'd also be doing damage to them. Once you're doing damage back, I'd expect that you'd be "committed" to finishing the fight as it were.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You're expections with that statement is 100% wrong.

    There IS an issue with the guard command flagging innocents as aggressors when they shouldn't be. It's about time it gets looked into.
     
  10. Lug

    Lug Lore Master
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    It's been reported... years ago.

    I have no problem with using the guard command for pvm or pvp, outside of being an aggressor when I shouldn't be flagged an aggressor. Nor do I have a problem with using all kill.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Or maybe I should ask the obvious question, why are you using guard instead of kill to begin with?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Like everything in pvp, the use of pet commands is dictated by the situtation at hand. It's not a question of using one pet command one or the other. It's more along the lines of being able to use a command without it being exploited by another player.



    Example, I'm a red house hiding archer. I'm bored and see you walking from the yew fel bank to the yew fel moongate. I follow you and I attack you. Attacking you flags me an aggressor and I CAN'T do the following things:

    1) recall
    2) use a moongate
    3) enter a house
    4) call the guards on the person I am fighting.

    Why? This is done to promote fair play.

    At this point your still able to recall, use a moongate, enter a house, or call the guards on me, because your the victim here. Lets say for the hell of it, you manage to get me close to dying. I start to run. I can't recall, use a moongate, enter a house, or call the guards thus allowing you to kill me.


    Now let's do that again, except this time I notice you have a "guarded" tag over your head. I follow you and attack you. Your pets automatically defends you and charges me. They get me close to dying, but this time I can recall, use a moongate, enter a house to save my life, and that's just what I do. I should be dead and you should be looting my body, but thats not happening because I Exploited flagging system and ran into my house - were your pets can't enter.

    We can run that situtation longer. Say I run in my house and heal up. You leave thinking you've defended yourself and walk to the yew moongate to go to another town. You get in the guard zone near the moongate, but then here I come attacking you again (because your still aggressor flagged for two minutes). You are in the guard zone, but you can't call the guards on me for attacking you.

    Your pets auto defend you again, forcing me to run. However, I heal and I manage to lore you pets away from you and get them stuck on someones steps, then return to your location in the guard zone to attack you without your pets to defend you. You panic and run to the moongate hoping to escape to luna (or another town), but you can't! You keep recieving a message "that you can't escape."

    Finally as your hit points keep falling, you mash your "guards!" macro to come kill this Red player (remember that I attacked you first) but the guards dont come (because I exploited the aggressor flag - in the guards eyes your the aggressor.) I kill you in the guard zone and loot your body. Just as I planed the moment I saw the "guarded" tag over your head.

    This situtation is made possible only because there is a flaw with the flagging system regarding the pet command "guard" flagging pet owners as aggressors. This is a bug, and used in this situtation, this bug was used as an exploit to unfairly asign the aggressor flag to the victim.

    The aggressor flag is for the person that initates the combat, not the person defending themselves, which in this unfortunate case was you.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ok, that's clear enough. I agree that sounds screwy. Forgot about the no run/gate thing, the fights I've got into don't tend to last that long lol [​IMG]

    It's a bit academic for me because I never use guard beyond fishing with my kitsune. I never found that reliable, so I don't use guard otherwise.

    The bit I don't understand is why anyone would be guarded in PvP as it would, I expect, make it much easier for an attacker to lure your pets away. I can believe an inexperienced PvMer might think guarding would help, but even so, would know about the distraction factor of all that little spawn in said dungeon. Usually the folks I see guarded are those who want to park a pet kinda thing [​IMG]

    Wenchy
     
  12. Lug

    Lug Lore Master
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    There are pvp situations when being guarded is very benifical, but these situations only are benifical if the person being guarded is a tamer with the correct pets. Fully trained rune bugs/mares combos are good as they will respond in miliseconds when the master is attacked. This allows the tamer to do a number of things to defend himself in an offensive manner like casting a spell, or using a bola, or whatever.

    The guard command can be useful as a mage also. As a mage can summon a daemon. Tell it to all guard, all stay, and then invis it to surprise an attacker. It's regarded as a lame tactic most times, but depending on the person that's attacking you, it can be funny stuff!

    But again, in both if these situations, both the tamer and the mage will become the aggressor flagged unable to escape, even if they didn't attack anyone first. In champ spawn areas it doesn't matter if you can flee or not, but there have been times where having my pets guard have helped me in a sticky situation.


    There are also are situations where the guard me command is exploited against non-tamer types.

    Basically anyone that has a pet and says "all guard me" can be hit by this bug/exploit. That includes anyone that says "all guard me" (for whatever reason) and then mounts a horse. Being mounted doesn't cancel the pet from guarding you, and believe it or not, still can cause the rider to be flagged as an aggressor.

    So basically, if you see a player in fel riding a horse that has the "guarded" tag over his head, all you have to do is attack him and they become the aggressor that cant flee, or call the guards for help. It's PKing without getting the murder counts.



    The flagging system in general can use a overhaul. It has many flaws and short comings that need to be fixed/addressed.

    The physical reflection aggessor bug, and the Guarded aggressor bug are just two flaws. There are other issues with this flagging system that I'd like to see addressed like:

    1) being able to tell which RED player has attacked me. They all show up red regardless if they attack you or not. Maybe make reds that have attacked you turn red and grey?

    2) being able to tell which GREY player has attacked me. They all show up GREY regardless if they attack you or not. Maybe add a new color to the flagging system that means this player HAS attacked you.

    3) I'd like to be able to tell the difference between criminally flagged chars in general:

    *like players that have looted a blue body
    *thieves
    *a blue player that attacked me, but now is grey

    Currently they all show up the same as grey characters.

    For me the most important thing being able to tell which player that has attacked me. If they're red, grey, orange, green I dont care. I just want to be able to know for sure which one I can attack back.

    I'm sure there are other issues I can list, but I'm to tired to remember them all!
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ah, sounds more a different technique than anything. I just wondered who and how guard was used in PvP

    Not really a big bola user, just use fairly fast pets that are well trained. Ted to drop spells on folk rather than bolas, but that's in groups where I know someone else is likely to dismount.

    I favour whispered kill commands mostly because they're more reliable. And it's less predictable to an aggressor, who will get hit by said pets. That's Wenchy logic though heh. I mostly PvP in defence, but I prefer to whisper kill and drop target on someone than let their "tough guy" hit me, knowing they'll get the pets, and usually being most prepared for said pets' damage. Surprise is about the only advantage I have aside from stealth hehe. I've done better than I should have with my daft ideas, but more through unpredictability than skill [​IMG]

    Wenchy