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[Imbuing] Reforge HML then imbue SSI = 100 HML WITH SSI WORKS!

Discussion in 'UO Craftsman' started by Tuan, Jul 2, 2014.

  1. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    Does anyone know if this works?

    Lets say I take a longsword - which I can just imbue to 100 HML, but I instead reforge it - which should technically mean I reforged it with 120+ HML.

    If I then imbue it with SSI, can I then by any chance make a weapon that is both 100 HML and 15SSI.

    Or am I better off to go ahead and just try to reforge it with both the HML and SSI mods?
     
    #1 Tuan, Jul 2, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014
  2. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    Logged into TC last night to try the reforging idea. I did copper hammers + powerful, choosing 2 titles, vampire/haste. I am pretty convinced that what I want to do is possible to reforge ... but I am putting the chance of actually landing on this set of mods (100 HML, 15 SSI) to be in the realm of 1 in 100. Since each attempt costs me 6 charges, it could easily take something like 15-20 hammers before I landed on just the right mix of 15SSI and 100 HML ... well OK, 30 SSI and 100 HML would be OK too.

    I guess tonite I will try to reforge just a 100 HML - which means the hammer will have rolled 125% - then imbue SSI and see if it stays at displaying 100, or drops below.
     
  3. Sophi

    Sophi Adventurer
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    You could try it out on test since you have unlimited uses on the runic tools, see if you can get it and how many tool uses it might take. I love test for working out stuff like that.

    oh is that what TC is? oops sry :)
     
  4. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    I just managed to, with a copper hammer, make a longsword that was reforged to 100 HLL and 20 HSL, then I imbued it with 15 SSI, and it still has 100HLL.

    Then out of curiosity, I imbued up to 20 SSI, HLL dropped down to 96%. Ok.

    Experiment 3: imbue back down to only 5% SSI -> HLL goes back to showing 100%

    Nice!
     
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  5. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Question.

    You started with 100 HLL and 20 HSL after reforging. When you imbued 15 SSI and you said that it still had 100 HLL, did it still have also 20 HSL ?

    If so, I do not understand how going to 20 SSI brought HLL down to 96 when imbuing down to 5 SSI brought HLL up to 100..... assuming that throughout all this imbuing HSL stayed always stable at 20.....

    I mean, 20 SSI/96 HLL/20 HSL = 5 SSI/100 HLL/20 HSL = 15 SSI/100 HLL/20 HSL ?

    Does that make any sense ??
     
  6. RaistlinNowhere

    RaistlinNowhere Slightly Crazed
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    Popps thats correct, HSL isnt affected by SSI, only HML and HLL are.
     
  7. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    The short answer is, yes, OBVIOUSLY this makes sense to me, or I wouldn't have thought up the idea, then taken the time to do the experiment.

    The CAPS for HML and HLL are a function of weapon speed and SSI. This is why you can imbue a Broadsword (3.25 speed) to 90ish HML, but a scimitar (3.0) to only 75, and a longsword (3.5) can be imbued to 100%. There's a chart http://www.uoguide.com/Hit_mana_leech showing this.

    When I reforge a scimitar, I can get 100 HML, which is 133% of the cap. My theory was that when I was reforging the longsword, it was actually getting it's HML or HLL set to 133% of it's natural cap, or about 120% HML - but the maximum usuable, and therefore the displayed value, HML is only 100. Kinda like a glass of water - you can only drink 100% of it, even if you're still thirsty afterward.

    So then I have a sword with 120 HLL, even though the gump only shows 100. Maybe in combat it would even have the effectiveness of 120 HLL, but that's hard to tell, given that the leech per hit is a variable value, so you'd need literally thousands and thousands of swings to determine if it was working at a greater effectiveness than 100%. You'd need for every swing you hit with, for your HP (or mana) to be lower than the max possible leech amount, then you need to keep a chart of damage done vs leeched amount. Then you can compute an average, and compute a confidence interval on that average to let you know if you're really leeching, on average 15% of damage done, or 18%. Since we know that the leech amout can vary wildly (from 0% to HML*.3 % of damage done) and 15 and 18 are relatively close, especially when you factor in rounding issues, you're going to need a lot of swings so that your confidence interval is narrow enough to draw any reasonable conclusion. If after 100 hits, you've leeched on average 16% of damage done... well that's not useful yet. If after 1M hits you have, well, now we're onto something.

    So by imbuing the SSI, I am lowering the overall HML by some % equal to that equation in the link above. This is how I can get a longsword with 100 HML and 15 SSI (my ultimate goal btw). If you look at the chart, a longsword with max HML at 15SSI is 76%, which my 133% reforging takes me up over 100. The max with 20SSI is only 72%, which my 133% imbuing takes me to... 96%.

    When I reforged the SSI back down to 5%, that was really just an attempt to see if the situation was static, or if it was always a calculated value. I was already 99% sure of the answer, but since I was on TC and everything is free, I figured it was worth the 40 seconds to experiment.
     
  8. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Let me see if I understood this right.....

    You used the SSI imbuing back and forth to try understand whether, even if only showing HLL 100%, the longsword had actually been reforged to HLL 133% ? Is that so ?

    At least, that is what I seem to understand when you mention that imbuing to 20 SSI drops HLL to 96%...

    So, when you reforged the longsword as first, you had 100% HLL displayed (actual 133% in truth) and 20 HSL because when you then imbued it with 15 SSI it still had, besides the 20 HSL, 100% HLL displayed (and now actual 100% in truth) ?

    Is that so ?

    If that is the case, the CAPs exceeding values NOT SHOWING might be confusing because a lot of players not realizing it, might be seeing a value of 100% and think it is what they have but instead, they got, for example, 133% for that given property......

    Now, they may not want this 133% value taking imbuing weight, but be happy with a displayed and actual value of 100% (especially if the 133% is only a displayed value, not actually bringing any extra bonus over 100%....) and so might not imbue their item as it could be.....

    What I am trying to say, is that if the property actually does benefit from going over 100% then the higher value should be displayed, if it does not, then it should stop at 100% not just displayed, but also actual reforged value....
     
  9. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    Yes.

    In this case, yes, but that's a gross simplification. Once I knew that the longsword really had 133% SSI, I was answering the question "What values of SSI still cause the displayed value of HML to be >= 100%?"

    Actually I believe that when it was at 15% SSI, it still has 103% "real" HML. If you refer to the UO Guide page it gives the equation to determine what the max IMBUABLE HML is, given weapon speed and SSI. You could then turn the equation around and determine the HML drop per 5% SSI added.

    Actually, this is likely a bug, or at the very least, was not put under full consideration by the devs who implemented this. I'd find it hard to believe that this is a codified aspect of the design, and as a dev who works in an industry where, by law, not written down = bug, I'd guess this is a bug. Not all bugs are bad...

    Now this is one aspect I did not look into. I'll leave this as an exercise for YOU to determine the outcome. Here's the test to perform. In TC, go to an NPC and buy some longswords. Imbue one up to the max SSI (87%), and then look at what the total weight would be if you were to imbue 1 DI onto it. This should be 112 (100% intensity SSI *1.1 imbue weight = 110, + 2% intensity DI @ 1.0 weight = 112).

    Now start reforging Vampiric/ Of the Vampire until you have a Longsword that displays 100% of either HML or HLL, and ONLY the HML/HLL. Now open the imbue gump and set it to imbue 1% DI. If the total resulting imbue weight is 128 (115% intensity [100/87] * 1.1 weight plus 2% intensity @ 1.0 wieght), then imbuing only takes into account the DISPLAYED value. However, if it is say 148 (133% intensity * 1.1 weight = 146 + 2% DI = 148 - BUT the hammer need not put exactly 133%, I think the cap is 135% for a copper hammer, but also if it adds say 50% of it's max ability to add, you'll still display 100, but the value MAY only be 103% behind the scenes).

    In any event, in this reforged scenario, any number above 128 means that you've got some "wasted" imbue points, given that you're paying the imbue price for, say 115% HML, but only able to make use of 100%.

    I disagree with you. In your scenario, I do not get to swing a longsword at 1.25 seconds, while also having 100% leech on it, and only having 180 stamina, and not needing tinker legs or SSI jewelry. Bummer that you're confused, but I'm not. Since I've just spent a few thousand words explaining the mechanics - so you ought to be able to puzzle it out now.
     
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