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"Remember when dragons were dragons?"

Discussion in 'UHall' started by bumblefutz, May 26, 2010.

  1. bumblefutz

    bumblefutz Guest

    No. Remember when Destard and the Fire Temple were actually active? I do. Two of my favorite hunting spots, utterly decimated by throwing in spawn that can blow away three-quarters of your life in one shot.

    I know it's old news, but I'm still sore about this. Especially the underhanded way a tamer buff was basically sold by the developers as a PVE challenge. Please note that now that they've been nerfed a bit I don't really mind that tamers have them as pets I'd just like to be able to fart around in Destard again.

    Spawn them somewhere else so tamers can keep getting them, but get them out of places someone might want to actually hunt. As it is, the places they spawn have gone from relatively active middle-grade hunting areas, to utter abandonment except for the odd tamer. And they don't need to tame a new one every day.
     
  2. Jasonleebeck

    Jasonleebeck Guest

    So you want the difficulty to be lowered so you can hunt there again? I remember twinks, do you?
     
  3. maroite

    maroite Guest

    They went from active to not active because the old school dungeons are crap as far as drops and most people just hunt in the abyss.

    Not to mention I find your whining amusing. "Wah I can't roll my face across my keyboard and win anymore in 20 seconds!"

    Funny though, my mystic mage can kill GD's with Hail Storm and a slayer book in about a minute and a half. That is 1800+ HP GD's.
     
  4. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    This is true of virtually every monster. Every monster drops junk magic items and no one really needs to farm for gold.
     
  5. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    im not drinking milk,but itsfor some reason coming out my nose with hysteria
     
  6. Verthandi

    Verthandi Guest

    Destard is the only older dungeon where I regularly bump into other people hunting these days. I always see a few other people when I pop in to grab something for the zoo collection, which is fairly often.

    The Fire Temple is also pretty camped at times by folks wanting a fame top-up as well.

    Personally I love the rush of having several GDs flying after me. I don't do nearly enough running around panicking in UO. :lol:
     
  7. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Greater Dragons have been thrown in Destard by the child of a dev, obviously. No decent level designer would have put the Greater Dragon at the entrance of the dungeon.

    We all wanted difficult dragons because the vicious circle devs fall in made the players demigods fighting the nine circles of hell at the same time, so the dragons that were tough high-end creatures for groups became cereals to be farmed for breakfast. However the difficulty has been very poorly implemented. Anyone with at least 3 minutes of consciousness a day would have set a progression through the dungeon, with tougher mobs further in. That's why, random example, the Shadow Wyrm is on another level, not at the entrance.

    Basically, they threw us the bone at the head.


    PS: I abandonned Destard for that exact reason, and Fire Temple because of the (greater) dragons teleporting from inside the building to the roof when I'm fighting daemons.
     
  8. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Not to mention the AW spawn is completely messed up and it gets stuck all the time.

    And its stupid that Greater Dragons are more powerful than Ancient Wyrm.
     
  9. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Well, you should be able to go back to fire temple and sleep through fame camping again as they took the teleport ability away from GD's several years ago thanks to the amusing cries of the pvp masses.

    Also, even had they put GD's on the same level as an Ancient Wyrm, its not exactly hard to tame there. Drag the wyrm to one side, and the dragon to the other or just use honor.

    If you really want ezmode, just look at any magic or combat build in UO. "Oh noes! I have to farm some mats in the abyss for a day or two to get a perfect suit for my sampire/abc/mage? Whatever shall I do!" :sad3:

    Sarcasm aside, its not like any aspect of UO is exactly challenging anymore. I mean just look at the nerfs TO GD's over the years, and the ridiculous "counters" to using them in PvM. Yes, mobs that switch to the tamer vetting and two shot them is suuuuch a challenge. rolleyes: Or how about peerless level mobs who just two shot the dragon? *cough* I'm looking at you slasher *cough*

    Tamers have gotten beaten with the nerf stick so many times, and yet sampires, dexxers and archers still out damage ALL pets.

    But let us be thankful for what the SA expansion gave us... wait... what did it give the "end game" tamer again? Oh... skrees.... :lol:rolleyes: I rest my case.
     
  10. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Dragon:Ancient Wyrm::Greater Dragon:platinum/Crimson/Stygian Dragon?

    You know, its not stupid that the GD's are more powerful than the ancient wyrm, its stupid that Sampires are more powerful than peerless.

    Its also stupid that greater dragons are the only pet really worth using in most cases now.

    Point in case: I recently decided to check out a pack of hell hounds on Navrey. I brought them down their with a guildie and his White Wyrm. I let him sick his white wyrm on Navrey, and waited while helping him heal the wyrm. After 30 seconds or so, I sent in my wolf pack. Not 5 seconds later Navrey ported the wyrm, and within 2 seconds ate two of my hounds.

    And people really wonder why the two most popular pets are cu's and GD's? ... rolleyes: Its because A. There is NO aggro management in UO. and B. The devs design peerless to be "group" content. Which means if peerless can 3 shot an all 70's player with DCI, what do you REALLY think its going to do to any pet with less resist than that?
     
  11. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    They went from active to not active because the old school dungeons are crap as far as drops and most people just hunt in the abyss.
    You'd bee astonished the amount of low-end Imbuing ingredients I get form "junk" drops. Seriously.

    Not to mention I find your whining amusing. "Wah I can't roll my face across my keyboard and win anymore in 20 seconds!"
    Uncalled for but you might wanna add me to the "whiny" list ... I like tackling 2 or 3 dragons at once for grins and tactical testing. GDs on Lvl 1 of Destard ruin it for me at this point.

    Funny though, my mystic mage can kill GD's with Hail Storm and a slayer book in about a minute and a half. That is 1800+ HP GD's.
    Don't care about a Mystic mage ... I asked in another thread if someone could show me a swords/Pally template and offer some tactics in soloing a GD. All I saw in that subthread was how mages and tamers could ... not a thing for melee.

    Do YOU have anything to offer a PvM swords/paladin? Hmmm?
     
  12. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Pretty sure Sampires can solo GD's and I have seen archers solo them rather easily.

    Samurais could probably do it also.

    You can get low end imbuing reagents from junk drops off things in the abyss, as well as the special ingredients. I fail to see how pointing out the reason for the old dungeons being barren has to do with you not choosing good hunting grounds.

    As for being rude, I find his banner rude and offensive. Also, if you want to tackle 2 or 3 dragons at the same time, its not like GD's make it impossible. You can easily lure the dragons away from GD's and in Trammel, there are far more regular dragons then their are GD's. rolleyes:

    Not to mention the OP has a personal agenda to harass tamers. I mean, seriously he wants to remove/move GD's because once in a blue moon he wants to "fart around in destard." ??

    Seriously? ... Whatever.
     
  13. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    ... just need to reduce the frequency of peerless target switching (and fix the stupid pet commands)
     
  14. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Yeah, I agree about both but how long has it been since people have been saying that and they have never mentioned it?

    It still doesn't help some of the newer peerless either. Slasher will still crush pets under foot and the Stygian Dragon too.

    Medusa, the two spawns, and navrey are petable, but anything that is petable usually means it can be done without pets also.

    Honestly, vet frustrates me on most encounters I do. I can't get in close enough to vet with target switching, and 120 points is better served in that situation by using meditation.

    I wish they would do something with Vet. :/
     
  15. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    I have been trying Destard off and on recently and each time I have entered I have been able to beat on 1 dragon at a time not teams of them as I like to try out. Yesterday 2 GDs came to the aid of a drake/dragon pair I was toying with.

    Yeah, twins ... Up until that point I had 3 wyverns, lots of serpents, 1 prior drake then the d&d pair. Two GDs on top is a tad much for a solo bloke. I was fighting about 1-1/2 screens away from the entrance - along the southern wall.

    I really dislike the thought of reskilling this guy ... I've had lots of fun with him as he is. Reskilling will also require adjusting my armor as well I suppose. Whatta PITA. <shrug>

    As for the Abyss ... I'll get around to it one day.
     
  16. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I find it quite easy to hunt there alone and avoid Greater Dragons. I go there occasionally for barbed leather, or when I feel confident enough to challenge a Greater Dragon.

    Most people don't hunt in the anti-virtue dungeons anymore because most people hunt to get nifty items, and the good items can only be gotten elsewhere. I've been saying for a long time that the dungeons need more riddles, adventure and challenge to make adventuring more worthwhile.
     
  17. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Greater Dragons can be soloed by a non-Samurai, non-Archer, non-Sampire. They give good loot too. It's not terribly easy, but maybe it shouldn't be.

    Which brings me to....Why were Greater Dragons introduced? In part, because we were whining that Dragons were too easy. Jeremey commented on how she was disturbed by the idea of people training on dragons, and a bunch of us chimed in with how we agreed with her.

    And finally, it's possible to hunt in Destard and avoid Greaters entirely, now that they are properly labeled.

    When it was hard was when they were all just called "Dragons" and you had no way to immediately identify which was which.

    -Galen's player
     
  18. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    No, you can't really hunt normal dragons only. Even if you're paying attention, a greater bugger will eventually come and you'll have to flee, reorganize, waste time. That's if by chance the GD isn't at the entrance of the dungeon, auto-targeting when you pop in.

    You're forced to compare it to other available spawns of the same difficulty as normal dragons, and there are better spots where you're not smashed by a mob of a very different difficulty.

    Greater Dragons were a nice idea, they listened to players. But they put them at the wrong place. They would have been great somewhere else further in the dungeon. So when you're not yet strong enough to fight them, you can take the normal dragons, and if the dragons are too boring and you want a challenge, you pass them and go to the GD spot.
     
  19. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Then you're doing something wrong. It is VERY easy to outrun a Greater Dragon (since their teleporting was broken) and pick a normal Dragon, lead it somewhere and slay it. If you can't do that, you probably haven't quite understood how the MOB agression system in UO works. It really is easy!
     
  20. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Gee, someone better tell my blacksmith/tailor this. i take him into Destard to get barbed leather all the time. He can't take a GD, but has no problems with the dragons and wyverns.

    If a greater comes along, I lead him away, invis, recall out to the entrance, re-enter, and go back to hunting.
     
  21. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    I remember when "dragons" were "dragons". I also remember when an ogre could kick your ass after 4 months of playing! With the passage of time and the introduction of skills, expansions, the addition of new items, and the innovation of players to combine skills into innovative and dominant templates, these creatures become extremely EASY to kill.

    With that said, I AM GLAD THAT they added something with a little bit more difficulty to these dungeons! Next thing you know your gonna be complaining about renowned in the abyss because they are harder than the normal creature spawn. Oh while we are at it lets nerf dread, trav, grizz, and every other boss so that way no one has to adjust there play or template or suits and have no risk for their rewards.

    Please.
    :twak:
     
  22. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    Yes sammis can i occasionally do these for the hell of it when im bored with the abyss to change things up and keep it fresh
     
  23. bumblefutz

    bumblefutz Guest

    There used to be people in those places. Not a flood of them, but they were active. Then they put spawn on the first level that could two-shot someone with max resists and it unsurprisingly died out, long before there was the abyss.

    This from the guy who goes on to cry big soppy emo tears about a monster turning to hit him instead of obediently chewing on his pet? Oh no, you might have to wear a suit with resists. I'm sorry, I was talking about players who actually operate under conditions where monsters get to hit them back.

    Aww, is that what it is? You wanted to dye your Fluffykins purple, you're ever so angwy that a bunch of people thought that was stupid, so you decided to be the shrill butthurt tamer that flies off the handle for no reason?

    You know I had basically forgotten about that sig, and would have taken it down months ago if I could have been bothered. But you made me glad I left it up, and reminded me how glad I am that we murdered that horrible idea in it's cradle.

    Wow, now this is just total reading comprehension failure. I explicitly stated in the opening post that I no longer cared about their use as pets one way or another and suggested that they be spawned elsewhere so that they could still be obtained.

    But don't let that get in the way of throwing a hissyfit and wasting bandwidth on a bunch of crybaby tamer tears about every stupid topic under the sun.

    Like this. You think your tamer isn't powerful enough (What's the matter, can't roll your face on the keyboard and win?) so you're just being a generic crybaby troll who can't even be bothered to read what he's responding to.

    Oh and while I'm at it: A sampire who can solo a peerless is skilled and likely wearing a zillion GP worth of gear. What does a skillful tamer do? Stand there in a luck suit spamming bandages on his dragon's butt... with flair?
     
  24. I wish Dragons were still Dragons...and that Greater Dragons had never been introduced...however, I wish that Dragons were buffed to be much tougher than Greater Dragons.

    A Dragon should be one of, if not the, toughest creature in the game.
     
  25. Oh yeah...

    ...and PET DYES FTW!!! :lol:
     
  26. Sturdy

    Sturdy Guest

    I remember panicking and running from Orc Mages. Good times at that big Orc Fort way back when.
     
  27. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Separate Dragon and Greater Dragon spawn, move Greater Dragons to level 2, beef up Ancient Wyrm and fix its lair, removing the center place.
     
  28. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    I ROCK Destard for hours and hours at the time solo.

    You need some great armor & decent tactics. I suspect I'll eventually get killed there, but it hasn't happened yet. Destard most definitely can be hunted.

    Its not the place for most warriors though, but as long as you stay out of EoE and don't try to do multi-greaters you can sammy them.
     
  29. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    This is always a problem with rock/paper/scissors design. Since UO went towards that with AoS and the newer skills, slayer weapons, etc., it's become less of a world and more of a game. Like those magic card games, do you have the right cards?
     
  30. bumblefutz

    bumblefutz Guest

    The creatures which UO calls simply "a dragon" aren't really THE dragons anyway, and were NEVER the baddest dragons around. The most powerful dragons (ancient wyrms, serpentine dragons, shadow wyrms, skeletal dragons, Rikktor) could always bite the arse off of the old standard dragons, and all those things have been around for many years if not from day one.

    That's why I say they were just a tamer buff. (Which I'm still not complaining about. Everyone else has gotten buffs, fine, whatever.) Instead of the normal dragon being the 6th most powerful dragon-type, now it's the 7th most powerful. So what's the big deal?

    You can still go out and find "a dragon" and kill it with relative ease. That still hasn't changed. The standard dragon didn't get any tougher. You just have to look out for it's big brothers. That's no different than just throwing a bunch of ancient wyrm spawns on level one of Destard.

    Except ancient wyrms on level one is a giant pain in the butt for someone wanting to kill the standard dragons. If I wanted to kill ancient wyrms I'd go down a level.

    It's like putting balrons on the first level of Hythloth or ogre lords on the first level of Despise. Sure that's not a huge deal, but there's no point. All it does is ruin the first level for anyone who wasn't going to the bottom level ANYWAY.

    I know everyone in every MMO forum reads a thread and wants to go "I CAN KILL THE SUPER WOMBAT IN TWO HITS, WHY AREN'T YOU AWESOME LIKE ME NEWB HA HA!!1!" but there's no good reason to ruin mid-range hunting areas.
     
  31. No, not always.

    When UO was new, a Dragon was a Dragon. There was no "Rikktor", no "skeletal dragon", not "serpentine dragon", no "shadow wyrm", not even an "ancient wyrm" although, those did come pretty quickly after.

    The mistake made was that "a Dragon" should have been buffed, and new things should have been introduced that were lesser to true Dragons.

    That's just me, I am old school like that...but I think "a Dragon" should be the most terrifying creature in the game.
     
  32. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Everyone knows the most terrifying creature in the game is C H U C K O!!!
     
  33. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    I tried again, as a tamer. I got one dragon. The next one was too near a greater dragon, I had to run back to the entrance. It followed me so now it must be in the center of the room. It's a waste of time. Why bother killing dragons in a dangerous spawn when onis for example are in fact easier to farm, for the same kind of loot. And how amazing, there was nobody in Destard.
    You certainly can do better with a hit&run template, but that doesn't change the fact that it's been badly designed. Greater dragons shouldn't spawn at the entrance.
     
  34. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Take that as a complement coming from someone crying about how big and bad GD's are. lol BTW, I run a mystic tamer with 75/75/75/75/75 resists while using Protection and have 140 HP. rolleyes:

    Never wanted to dye anything purple, but the option wouldn't have been bad. Its funny how you want want want but are so quick to shoot down stuff that others may enjoy. rolleyes: Nice way of thinking.

    Did you seriously just relate going against pet dyes to killing babies? You're a sick freak and should seriously seek out mental help.

    "Waaah because those big "bad" dwagons are in my way, I can't goof off in destard once a month anymore! Dev's move them some place else so I can cry about that next month!" rolleyes:

    Amusing coming from the guy who made a topic about moving GD's because he wants to, and I quote, "fart around in destard".

    You missed the point entirely but I suppose I should have expected that much. My tamer does fine, thanks but I can solo GD's on my archer and I just did it on my sampire as well after getting his suit finished. So I'm wondering, who is more powerful?

    The suit might be expensive, but no where near as much as you stated. A decent luck suit is just as expensive. Also, I would love to see your video of you tamer, in an all luck suit, soloing peerless. Please post it!
     
  35. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Here is a nifty idea I also use. Mark a rune at the front entrance, and also one in teh SE corner (where the three chests spawn). That way, if the front entrance is camped by a Greater, you can still recall into the dungeon and hunt.

    I have templates that can kill one dragon at a time, and other templates that can take 2 dragons at a time, even a template that cant kill a dragon at all, etc. Different templates require different tactics.

    OK, so no Greater Dragons on level one because the dungeon should be progressive? But wait, there are drakes htere too, what about people that can't kill dragons but can kill drakes? Guess there shouldn't be any dragons on level one either. But wait, there are also wyverns too. Guess we need still another level. Damn, forgot about the giant serpents.

    Allright, so we need to change Destard so that level one has giant serpents, then you can go down to level 2 to fight wyverns, then go to level three to fight drakes, then go to level four to fight dragons, then go to level 5 to fight greaters, and finally level 6 is a shadow wyrm. There, now we have it. Unless spomeone is using as thief on level one and is bothered by the serpents. perhaps we need level one to be clear so the thiefs can pick locks in peace without being "interrupted by spawn". Then we just make a seventh level and move everything down one. There, Destard is now redesigned. hmmmmm gotta run through 4 levels of dungeon to fight a dragon? better add safe recall points to each level, or moongates.......
     
  36. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Nice exaggeration. You're a tough board warrior.
    I didn't say it should be on another level. I said not at the entrance. There's a room with only giant serpents already, and also drakes only. There are other spots for giant serpents too.
    You perfectly know that. You certainly find it funnier to rip my words apart to make me say something that's easy to argue against, but unfortunately that doesn't bring anything constructive to the thread. But more fame to you!
     
  37. I've done it. It's not that hard to put together a luck suit with decent resists now, along with 100 LRC and plenty of MR and LMC.
     
  38. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I remember when if you killed Lots & lots of dragons, you could get some pretty good armor pieces & weaps & make a little gold too, I don't think that's possible anymore, is it?
    I used to be one of the ones that could kill drakes(barely) but not dragons, and i just went to see what spawned in the chests, eventually w/ better weapons & armor i could finally kill dragons, I was so happy, I now had a new place to hunt, and sometimes I'd even venture into Lvl2 but as usual, they ruined it when they changed it by adding Greaters on Lvl 1, now Lvl1, for me, is way too hard to do much in there. I could change templates & adapt, but that's way in the future somewhere, so meanwhile i don't go anymore.

    /signed
    harder stuff should be on lower levels, progressively.
     
  39. gjohnson5

    gjohnson5 Guest

    This as well needs to be changed
    Mythic turned mystics into easy solo-ers with only 240 points needed to cast one of the best spells in the game (rising colossus) There's a few that solo navrey and get tangles. I don't tihnk it's fair that they get to spend only 240 points and don't really have to play the game. Just cast rising colossus and get out of the way
     
  40. gjohnson5

    gjohnson5 Guest

    My blacksmith crated a 100% cold damage ornate axe (drogon slayer) and my sampires uses this to solo GD. They key is 100% cold damage so you don't waste time and mana using consecrate. Just honor and lightning strike away for heals
     
  41. loganlambe1155

    loganlambe1155 Visitor

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    Dragons were used to be very attractive until dinosaurs came on big screen
     
  42. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    So sorry. Just carrying thoughts through, and figured as long as we were going to reconstruct a dungeon for you, we might as well do it for everyone. Your idea that GDs should not be at the entrance because they are so tough. Same idea flows to all the other creatures in the dungeon. Why should somone have to run through dragons to reaach drakes. or run through anything to get to the serpents.

    So you want them barriered so they cannot come to the entrance? might have to make the cavern bigger then. Some of my GD solos require a good bit of running room, and running into another GD would not be good for his health. And having only one spawn at a time will not make tamers very happy. And if you don't want GDs mixed with dragons, someone else will not want dragons mixed with drakes, and no drakes with wyverns and so on.

    Although I did provide you an alternative solution. The second rune I have marked in the chest spawn area? The only times I find anything in there is when someone has led it there. You actually have less chance of meeting ANYTHING there than if you pop in at the entrance.
     
  43. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    I laughed when I mis-read this. I thought you wanted Dragons to be buffed so that even if there were greater dragons, the dragons would still be tougher. Which then begged teh question what makes Greater Dragons so Great. LOL :)
     
  44. They are excellent dancers :)
     
  45. bumblefutz

    bumblefutz Guest

    Really they should have just went "everyone else has been buffed so screw it, ancient wyrms are tameable now, have fun" instead of cooking up a buffed alternate version of a staple monster and plopping it into a bunch of spawns where it doesn't belong.
     
  46. They really should make AWs tamable with a nerf on tame. I love the way they look in game now. They should do the same with SWs as well. GDs eat either of them for breakfast now anyway...
     
  47. Metalstorm

    Metalstorm Seasoned Veteran
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    I wasn't much thrilled with the name 'greater' dragon either but what's done is done.

    I just had to change the way I think about dragons in UO.

    I now consider a drake to be a baby dragon.

    I consider a regular dragon to be something akin to a teenager. Not a baby but not old enough to be fully developed.

    And the greater is a fully fledged, grown, matured and developed dragon.